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Mass Effect 3: From Ashes


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#8601
WeWant

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RDSFirebane wrote...

WeWant wrote...

I know, that's why I said "content that has been developped so far."  There is no clear definition of when a game is complete or not. I'f you are a developer and you care about perfectioning your game, what should matter to you is putting as much content as possible in order to enhance it, instead of just filling some DLC quota prerequisited by EA.


Can you link the quota statement or some kind of proof that there is one? Can you prove that the DLC was 100% finished before the game went into certification?






Oh come on, don't be so naive. Since it was planed to be released with the CE, there was not any doubt that the content would have been ready for the game release date. Also, want more proof? Feel free to read the leaked script if you like. More proof?

Bioware pre-EA:

KOTOR - no Day One character DLC
Jade Empire - no Day One character DLC
Mass Effect - no Day One character DLC

EA: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL:

ME2 - Day One character DLC
DA:O - Day One character DLC
DA2 - Day One character DLC
ME3 - Day One character DLC

#8602
Kevin Lozandier

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WeWant wrote...

RDSFirebane wrote...

WeWant wrote...

I know, that's why I said "content that has been developped so far."  There is no clear definition of when a game is complete or not. I'f you are a developer and you care about perfectioning your game, what should matter to you is putting as much content as possible in order to enhance it, instead of just filling some DLC quota prerequisited by EA.


Can you link the quota statement or some kind of proof that there is one? Can you prove that the DLC was 100% finished before the game went into certification?






Oh come on, don't be so naive. Since it was planed to be released with the CE, there was not any doubt that the content would have been ready for the game release date. Also, want more proof? Feel free to read the leaked script if you like. More proof?

Bioware pre-EA:

KOTOR - no Day One character DLC
Jade Empire - no Day One character DLC
Mass Effect - no Day One character DLC

EA: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL:

ME2 - Day One character DLC
DA:O - Day One character DLC
DA2 - Day One character DLC
ME3 - Day One character DLC


AMEN. 

#8603
Yuoaman

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CommanderCoffee wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...
You refuse to listen to reason. When people present counterevidence, you manipulate it to use it against them. You got really damn close earlier to advocating piracy. Yet I'm the bad one here. Makes real good sense.


Piracy should in my opinion be viewed as a necessary evil, and one that has the potential to keep game companies honest.  That's not advocacy, that's acknowledgment.

And I didn't call you "bad" or anything of the sort.  I'm simply saying that you seem to have completely missed the point of that video.  Just because he's playing a character does not mean the words coming out of that character's mouth are not his real opinion, anymore than the words coming out of the 8 year olds on South Park contain kernels of Trey Parker and Matt Stone's real opinions.

That's good comedy because it's mocking people like you who keep demanding a piece of optional nonessential DLC for free, which is an insult to people like me who have the CE and are guaranteed it as part of the package!


Yeah, I think you really missed the point of that video if that's what you got out of it.


Is it possible for a video to create opinions? Yes. You're saying I missed the point of the video, that it's "SUPR SRS". I'm saying that the guy's using his mock voice, therefore he's mocking you. You're functionally calling me stupid for that. I don't appreciate it. 

So, I think my thickheaded analogy still stands. You can't see any viewpoint but your own, and it's pissing a lot of people off. Either at least acknowledge that there's such a thing as an opposing opinion, or bow out now and go find a circlejerk where you can rage about how life is unfair because you can't get a damn DLC for free. I believe some youtube video, made by a guy named, oh, Partial Muffin or something has exactly that for you.


Just because someone records a video with them playing a character doesn't make it "mocking", just felt like mentioning that.

#8604
jpzgoku

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RDSFirebane wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Plus, and this is the key point, we aren't talking about ADDITIONAL content.  We're talking about core content that should by all rights be in the game to begin with.


Not to jump between you two. But ^ why? It's always been about Shep. Stopping the Reapers with the Pro. just being the race that gave him the chance to do it they have always played a back seat role in the story as Shep. was doing everything the fact one is alive and breathing isnt really changeing much other then the fact he might be able to clear some stuff up. you act like he has a hidden god mode on him or something.


Be careful with what you are saying because it sounds like you are justifing (this is an extreme example and perhaps a stretch) of making Sheppard the only playable character. If you want Tali, Garrus, ect. they cost $10 extra each, because, in what you are implying, the story is about Sheppard.

Why is it ok too you cut content and sell it for $10 extra?

Modifié par jpzgoku, 25 février 2012 - 06:18 .


#8605
BaronIveagh

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GuyIncognito21 wrote...
I readily acknowledge that some people don't give a crap about the protheans and could not care any less if about this content.  That's well and good.

But the answer to "why" I think the protheans are core content is because from my experiences with the game, they're a very important part of this narrative.  Shepard is who he is because of the protheans.  The only reason the galaxy has a chance to fend off the reapers is because of the protheans.

Maybe that doesn't matter to you at all, but I don't see it that way.


This is a very good point.  It's sort of like if Obi-wan Kenobi were only DLC.  Yes, the trilogy is about Luke Skywalker, and it still makes sense without Obi-wan, to a degree, but it makes a lot more sense with him.

#8606
LOST SPARTANJLC

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WeWant wrote...

RDSFirebane wrote...

WeWant wrote...

I know, that's why I said "content that has been developped so far."  There is no clear definition of when a game is complete or not. I'f you are a developer and you care about perfectioning your game, what should matter to you is putting as much content as possible in order to enhance it, instead of just filling some DLC quota prerequisited by EA.


Can you link the quota statement or some kind of proof that there is one? Can you prove that the DLC was 100% finished before the game went into certification?






Oh come on, don't be so naive. Since it was planed to be released with the CE, there was not any doubt that the content would have been ready for the game release date. Also, want more proof? Feel free to read the leaked script if you like. More proof?

Bioware pre-EA:

KOTOR - no Day One character DLC
Jade Empire - no Day One character DLC
Mass Effect - no Day One character DLC

EA: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL:

ME2 - Day One character DLC
DA:O - Day One character DLC
DA2 - Day One character DLC
ME3 - Day One character DLC


That was also at a time when pretty much no one even thought to do dlc except ME.But even then dlc was a new concept that hadn't really been fully explored console wise.

#8607
GuyIncognito21

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Kevin Lozandier wrote...
Full experience? Again how do you know, you haven't played the game. The Madden example is a rather poor example from someone I actually respect as far as your ability to articulate your argument.

We know 100% that there are 32 teams in the NFL. If they take out one team in the game that's 100 certain is core, it would be a rip-off, like having to pay to play with the Super Bowl Champs of that season.


You call it a poor analogy simply because you disagree with my assessment of the importance of the protheans to this story.  You said it yourself that that importance is "subjective," and I completely agree.

To me, the importance of the protheans is every bit as unquestionable as the fact that there are 32 teams in the NFL.


It is not unlike the Prothean DLC that is being added here for the CE edition. It's not too far different than allowing Shepards to wear Collector armor last game as year; Aren't Collector's and their technology not a big deal as well?


The difference to me is that armor and weapons and things are fluff, not narrative.  Bioware can hand out all the fancy weapons and armor they want as part of the CE or paid DLC and I won't care a lick.  

By all means, if people want to accessorize their game then they should open their wallets and go for it.

#8608
Renegade133

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meh i only got the collectors because i generally like the idea of getting the metal cases and the fact that it does have some nice things like an art book and i missed out on ME2 collector's :\\

Modifié par Renegade133, 25 février 2012 - 06:21 .


#8609
DifferentD17

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I think this thread deserves a quote from the great former President of the United States of America...

"Fool me once..... shame on... shame on you, fool me you can't get fooled again."



#8610
RDSFirebane

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WeWant wrote...

Oh come on, don't be so naive. Since it was planed to be released with the CE, there was not any doubt that the content would have been ready for the game release date. Also, want more proof? Feel free to read the leaked script if you like. More proof?

Bioware pre-EA:

KOTOR - no Day One character DLC
Jade Empire - no Day One character DLC
Mass Effect - no Day One character DLC

EA: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL:

ME2 - Day One character DLC
DA:O - Day One character DLC
DA2 - Day One character DLC
ME3 - Day One character DLC


How many of thouse games u just listed had CE that had DLC as part of them? No really I don't know.

#8611
RaenImrahl

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WeWant wrote...

Bioware pre-EA:

KOTOR - no Day One character DLC
Jade Empire - no Day One character DLC
Mass Effect - no Day One character DLC


Did KOTOR or Jade Empire have *any* official DLC?  I don't recall.

#8612
BaronIveagh

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The problem is this DLC business is getting out of control. Where do you draw the line? Now? Or when we *have* to pay for DLC because half the game has been chopped off to make DLC?

#8613
LOST SPARTANJLC

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DifferentD17 wrote...

I think this thread deserves a quote from the great former President of the United States of America...

"Fool me once..... shame on... shame on you, fool me you can't get fooled again."


You forgot the taco's rule part , he is man that loves his taco's.

#8614
Yuoaman

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RaenImrahl wrote...

WeWant wrote...

Bioware pre-EA:

KOTOR - no Day One character DLC
Jade Empire - no Day One character DLC
Mass Effect - no Day One character DLC


Did KOTOR or Jade Empire have *any* official DLC?  I don't recall.


Not that I know of, DLC wasn't really that widespread of a thing at that time.

#8615
CommanderCoffee

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Yuoaman wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...
You refuse to listen to reason. When people present counterevidence, you manipulate it to use it against them. You got really damn close earlier to advocating piracy. Yet I'm the bad one here. Makes real good sense.


Piracy should in my opinion be viewed as a necessary evil, and one that has the potential to keep game companies honest.  That's not advocacy, that's acknowledgment.

And I didn't call you "bad" or anything of the sort.  I'm simply saying that you seem to have completely missed the point of that video.  Just because he's playing a character does not mean the words coming out of that character's mouth are not his real opinion, anymore than the words coming out of the 8 year olds on South Park contain kernels of Trey Parker and Matt Stone's real opinions.

That's good comedy because it's mocking people like you who keep demanding a piece of optional nonessential DLC for free, which is an insult to people like me who have the CE and are guaranteed it as part of the package!


Yeah, I think you really missed the point of that video if that's what you got out of it.


Is it possible for a video to create opinions? Yes. You're saying I missed the point of the video, that it's "SUPR SRS". I'm saying that the guy's using his mock voice, therefore he's mocking you. You're functionally calling me stupid for that. I don't appreciate it. 

So, I think my thickheaded analogy still stands. You can't see any viewpoint but your own, and it's pissing a lot of people off. Either at least acknowledge that there's such a thing as an opposing opinion, or bow out now and go find a circlejerk where you can rage about how life is unfair because you can't get a damn DLC for free. I believe some youtube video, made by a guy named, oh, Partial Muffin or something has exactly that for you.


Just because someone records a video with them playing a character doesn't make it "mocking", just felt like mentioning that.


How about his actual video on the matter?

 

#8616
BaronIveagh

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RaenImrahl wrote...

Did KOTOR or Jade Empire have *any* official DLC?  I don't recall.


Don't remember if KOTOR had DLC, but think that maybe Jade Empire did.  It's been a while though

#8617
Yuoaman

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BaronIveagh wrote...

The problem is this DLC business is getting out of control. Where do you draw the line? Now? Or when we *have* to pay for DLC because half the game has been chopped off to make DLC?


This is an entirely different situation, though, because this DLC wasn't taken out of the game, it was just always planned to be ready for release and not be included in the full game. This is the problem.

#8618
jpzgoku

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BaronIveagh wrote...

The problem is this DLC business is getting out of control. Where do you draw the line? Now? Or when we *have* to pay for DLC because half the game has been chopped off to make DLC?


Thats what it will come to if the consumer allows it to go so far.

#8619
Renegade133

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RaenImrahl wrote...

WeWant wrote...

Bioware pre-EA:

KOTOR - no Day One character DLC
Jade Empire - no Day One character DLC
Mass Effect - no Day One character DLC


Did KOTOR or Jade Empire have *any* official DLC?  I don't recall.


Kotor did have DLC i think it was higher res movies i cant really recall Jade Empire did have a special edition for pc which came with a few extra styles............ that im pretty sure of :bandit:

#8620
Yuoaman

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CommanderCoffee wrote...

Yuoaman
Just because someone records a video with them playing a character doesn't make it "mocking", just felt like mentioning that.


How about his actual video on the matter?

 


Again, just because his original video wasn't serious doesn't mean he was mocking anyone.

#8621
nitefyre410

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BaronIveagh wrote...

The problem is this DLC business is getting out of control. Where do you draw the line? Now? Or when we *have* to pay for DLC because half the game has been chopped off to make DLC?

 

that point it would be to late.   DLC  though is not  problem its the  day 1 deal... its like playing with fire ...eventually your going to get burned   

and this was not  taken out of the game as far its been proven... still I find the notion a of Exculsive DLC  character for a  Collectors Editon  complete nonsense and wedge to just test the waters...

but allas that is my opinion.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 25 février 2012 - 06:26 .


#8622
GuyIncognito21

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BaronIveagh wrote...

The problem is this DLC business is getting out of control. Where do you draw the line? Now? Or when we *have* to pay for DLC because half the game has been chopped off to make DLC?


Exactly, and that's why I wish people wouldn't be so quick to accept the company line that "we had a separate team develop it, and we waited until the game was in certification," and whatever else.

If people accept that, then it will become SOP to take important content, pack it off to a "separate" team, and wait until the rest of the game is "finished" to put it together.

I don't think companies should be given the benefit of the doubt on that model, certainly not when the nefarious specter of EA is hovering over this process like a storm cloud. 

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 25 février 2012 - 06:24 .


#8623
ArkkAngel007

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Really, I think the only main issue, outside of people not understanding why those who oppose this do so, is that people still believe it's cut content from the main game.

Go to the Spoiler group, torrent the script or have someone PM them to you, read the TLK files in the demo, and line it all up with the tweets and statements with developers over the course of development. It was never a part of the main game during the game's production.

The first full draft detailed a Prothean that was the center of the plot, as well as many different elements not present in the final game. While the reveal was awesome, the rest of the Prothean's involvement was very cliche and practically made the player inconsequential to the game. So, he and many other concepts were dropped. At this stage, the game is still in pre-development. Only concept art and the testing of new mechanics, programs, and equipment are being done in addition to the drafting process.

Script 2, no Prothean at all, and is a similar, if incomplete, version of what would become the final script. This is still pre-production.

Script 3 and the final one in the TLK file that I have on hand. The script is mostly complete, from beginning to end, with virtually all the dialogue and cutscene descriptions of the game. In there, there is a handful of lines of someone called Javik, and it is strongly implied that he is a Prothean. However, nothing else is given. There is no recruitment descriptions, skills description, mission description...I don't even think Eden Prime is listed with the planets in ME3 (Eden Prime is listed in the part that takes from your save import though from ME1). There is nothing but a few lines of dialogue for VO purposes.  This version was the one used for production purposes.


VO work and markers, just like with Kasumi and Zaeed with ME2, are on the retail disc, but that's it. All the essential work was done outside of the main game development, with a team cordoned off as main development wrapped up to do the level design, programming, modeling, etc. Once the main game was off to certification, those free to do so joined in the development of the DLC. This was all done with probably a separate budget (after all, EA makes more that way, though I admit that last bit is a guess), as budgets are also pre-planned.

Again, I'm here to help your guys' argument against this DLC. I'm not trying to dupe and mislead you. I'm just imparting the little bit I can share with you without getting gagged so that you can understand the fact.

Please don't have me type this again.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 25 février 2012 - 06:25 .


#8624
BaronIveagh

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Renegade133 wrote...

Kotor did have DLC i think it was higher res movies i cant really recall Jade Empire did have a special edition for pc which came with a few extra styles............ that im pretty sure of :bandit:


Yeah, but it didn't come with the tien style that xbox users could dl.  I remember that now.

#8625
RDSFirebane

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jpzgoku wrote...

RDSFirebane wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Plus, and this is the key point, we aren't talking about ADDITIONAL content.  We're talking about core content that should by all rights be in the game to begin with.


Not to jump between you two. But ^ why? It's always been about Shep. Stopping the Reapers with the Pro. just being the race that gave him the chance to do it they have always played a back seat role in the story as Shep. was doing everything the fact one is alive and breathing isnt really changeing much other then the fact he might be able to clear some stuff up. you act like he has a hidden god mode on him or something.


Be careful with what you are saying because it sounds like you are justifing (this is an extreme example and perhaps a stretch) of making Sheppard the only playable character. If you want Tali, Garrus, ect. they cost $10 extra each, because, in what you are implying, the story is about Sheppard.

*cut*


There you go again  *cut* "Why is it ok too you cut content and sell it for $10 extra?" *cut*  you have no proof it was cut. when you have some I'll address it.