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Mass Effect 3: From Ashes


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#8876
Kithrus

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BaronIveagh wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Okay, let me post this again, then. It was a response to odo's comment a few pages back

DLC is always planned beforehand. Some of it is stuff that was cut from
the core game during the design process for various reasons, and was
later polished and repurposed as DLC. This is not some epic evil
conspiracy, this is strandard modern game design. Read this if you want to learn more: the guy who wrote it is a game developer himself.

Also, the MP does replace Zaeed as new purchase incentive. Don't believe me? Check out this
ME3 unboxing video on YouTube - uploaded by BioWare. I'm not writing a
full script here, but basically: There's an online pass, which allows
you to play the 4 player co-op MP: if you buy used, you won't be able to
play "the co-op the multiplayer the full game" [0:57].

And again, you're not entitled to free stuff just because you think
you are. The game has gone Gold, ie. it has passed Certification, ergo,
it is a complete game. Half-finished products don't pass Certifiation.


I read that link, it was written almost 3 years ago and does not match my own experiances in the Industry.  AS EA demanded the multi-player as part of corporate policy, I don't see how it 'replaces' anything. 

And, sadly, unfinished games have, in fact, been certified and gone gold.

So, again, convincing argument?


I have to Agree Kotor 1 and 2 come to mind. Much was cutt.

#8877
RDSFirebane

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Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.


Why so everyone who thinks the Pro. DLC should be free can complain CE people get the next one free when Pro should have been in the game anyway ya same problem made different DLC as issue. thats no fix.

#8878
AkiKishi

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kingsims wrote...

There are other EA games that don't have Day 1 DLC content like Amular and Syndicate (Which were released recently, Amular had armour pack nothing major if you got the game new)

I will compare this with another Game called Syndicate which is published by EA. This game has mutliplayer co-op and singleplayer portion like mass effect. The game has no Day 1 DLC and has pre-order bonus incentives instead that are "Cosmetic"

So don't give me this BS about "its okay" when other EA studios don't do it.

If the DLC was a MP map pack, Gun pack, Zaeed 2.0. Then you can have your exclusive CE content. But if the Squadmate was a rachni or prothean or reaper then your pushing it. I wouldn't mind it if my MP character had Gold guns


Yep, the only paid Day1DLC for Amular was the "class" packs. House of Valour was free (everything else was ME bonus)

It's curious why EA seem to market Bioware so aggressively to the point of causing huge negativity. When they publish other games they are almost normal.

#8879
LilyasAvalon

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DJBare wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.

CE Purchaser: this is a f*king outrage, you gave them something we paid for!!
Bioware:, We will compensate you with a free DLC
SE Purchaser: this is a f*cking outrage.........................

And thus the circle continues...

#8880
Kithrus

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RDSFirebane wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.


Why so everyone who thinks the Pro. DLC should be free can complain CE people get the next one free when Pro should have been in the game anyway ya same problem made different DLC as issue. thats no fix.


I won't

#8881
CommanderCoffee

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.

CE Purchaser: this is a f*king outrage, you gave them something we paid for!!
Bioware:, We will compensate you with a free DLC
SE Purchaser: this is a f*cking outrage.........................

And thus the circle continues...


Oh hey! an example of a positive feedback loop!

#8882
ElementL09

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

Tobey2011 wrote...

GET IT OVER WITH ALREADY AND RELEASE THE DLC FOR FREE!!!

While they're at it, why not just give LotSB and Arrival and Overlord for free? **** all the people who actually bought it. :D


Thats not the same thing, those dlc came out way after the release of Mass Effect 2.  This DLC is free with the Collectors Edition and is 10$ if you have the Standard Edition.  Zaeed and Firewalker (both great DLC) were free at launch with new copies of the game, so why not From Ashes?

#8883
LilyasAvalon

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BobSmith101 wrote...

Yep, the only paid Day1DLC for Amular was the "class" packs. House of Valour was free (everything else was ME bonus)

It's curious why EA seem to market Bioware so aggressively to the point of causing huge negativity. When they publish other games they are almost normal.

I actually do have to wonder about this as well, but i best compare it to a teenage sex. Overexcited about what they see, so they rush and put too much pressure, and just ends in awkward silence.

#8884
Tar-Minastir

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RiouHotaru wrote...
That argument only holds water if this were ME1 or 2, where the Protheans both had a role in the overall game.  In ME3?  They don't.  In fact, the quota of relevance the Protheans had was spent back in 2.

Casey Hudson himself said the Prothean isn't important to the plot.  And before you claim Casey is lying/misleading, I'll point out the fact the game is less than 2 weeks from release.  Two.  Weeks.  There's no motivation to lie.


Last I checked ME3 was a sequal to ME and ME2, meaning that the protheans are massively important regardless of how you try and phrase the main plot of ME3 and yes, I am claiming Casey is lying/misleading in an attempt to cover bioware's ass.  

The close release date is a massive incentive to lie.  Think about it, you only have to maintain the lie for a short time and by then it will be too late for the suckered consumers to respond.

#8885
MissOuJ

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Tobey2011 wrote...

How stupid are you that you dont realise that I was being sarcastic?


Have you read this thread? TBH, I wound't be surprised to see an argument like that here. Plus, sarcasm translates poorly in the internet.

Also, no need for personal insults. We're all adults here. And even if we aren't at least we could act like it.

#8886
Kithrus

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CommanderCoffee wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.

CE Purchaser: this is a f*king outrage, you gave them something we paid for!!
Bioware:, We will compensate you with a free DLC
SE Purchaser: this is a f*cking outrage.........................

And thus the circle continues...


Oh hey! an example of a positive feedback loop!


Yes they exsist, doesn't lend cretance to your point though just means Bioware has to find another way.

#8887
LilyasAvalon

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ElementL09 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Tobey2011 wrote...

GET IT OVER WITH ALREADY AND RELEASE THE DLC FOR FREE!!!

While they're at it, why not just give LotSB and Arrival and Overlord for free? **** all the people who actually bought it. :D


Thats not the same thing, those dlc came out way after the release of Mass Effect 2.  This DLC is free with the Collectors Edition and is 10$ if you have the Standard Edition.  Zaeed and Firewalker (both great DLC) were free at launch with new copies of the game, so why not From Ashes?


Free? You're ****ing kidding right? The DLC is no ****ing sense free. CE's payed extra for all the content they're getting, that includes the DLC. This isn't like DA2's Signature Edition where all Day 1 DLC was included for free, but anyone who bought the Standard had to pay for the DLC. It's certainly much cheaper than the $10 the DLC is normally priced at, but in NO way is it free.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 25 février 2012 - 09:55 .


#8888
RDSFirebane

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ElementL09 wrote...


Thats not the same thing, those dlc came out way after the release of Mass Effect 2.  This DLC is free with the Collectors Edition and is 10$ if you have the Standard Edition.  Zaeed and Firewalker (both great DLC) were free at launch with new copies of the game, so why not From Ashes?


Because they never said Zaeed was CE only? pretty sure they didnt anyway the Pro. price was covered in our CE payment.

#8889
Tar-Minastir

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.

CE Purchaser: this is a f*king outrage, you gave them something we paid for!!
Bioware:, We will compensate you with a free DLC
SE Purchaser: this is a f*cking outrage.........................

And thus the circle continues...


Not even close.  Right now everyone is paying extra for content already developed pre-release ergo I call bs.  In the second senario, the CE'ers are getting compensated for what they already paid, while the rest of us will have to shell out if we want the real post production/release dlc that is coming down the line.  

Modifié par Tar-Minastir, 25 février 2012 - 09:56 .


#8890
Gatt9

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Kithrus wrote...
HYPOTHESIS CONTRARY TO FACT: This fallacy consists of offering a poorly
supported claim about what might have happened in the past or future if circumstances or
conditions were other than they actually were or are. The fallacy also involves treating
hypothetical situations as if they were fact.

You claim that it would be an endless cycle of a never ending game production but as mention nothing stops them from releasing said DLC free.

Thus addressing your other point that 'well the multiplayer takes up the slot of free encouragement to buy new....'

What games have gear limits now? we can only 'slot in' so much good stuff? When exactly are Bioware/EA not incharge of what they do with the game? The question here isn't so much that they can't do what they want but how they are treating their customers.

We are not walking wallets.

I run my own small company. I throw free stuff at my cliants all the time. It makes them feel loved and they come back to me when they want their floors repaired. I loss a bit this way cutting into my profits slightly but ultimately I have a 'fan base' if you will that are loyal to me.

Their PR departments have you blinded with a carefully crafted story of how the DLC was made after the fact by some seperate team so your guilted into feeling they are entitled to sell the DLC.

The heart of the problem is from the moment they sit down and plan the production of the game to the time they release it they are paid on the dime of the cost of the game in question.

Also if the DLC is not important and small then why is it worth 10 bucks and not 5 like all the other small dlc for mass effect 2?

If it is large and important like say arrival or shadow broker then why is it not included in the game or free?


This guy has it right.

See Bioware keeps using the word "Team",  which I'm willing to bet most of you think is 30-50 guys slogging away at it.  EA's an Agile house,  it's highly likely the "Team" is a second scrum team under the same roof,  and the same team leads,  and is composed of 4-10 people. 

The current Bioware pays little resemblence to the Bioware that I was a fan of,  the original Bioware was open and honest with fans,  the current one carefully crafts statements to allow them to be misread.

Further,  people keep assuming that this whole thing was carefully crafted in the very few weeks in January on impulse.  You're all forgetting,  this is not the only Day 1 DLC,  Bioware's been planning all of this for a long while.  You can't get SKU's and attach promotions to things on a whim at the last moment,  especially books and action figures.  It requires negotiations with printers to print the DLC code cards,  it requires time for them to be printed and shipped to the people making the ancillary products,  time for the distribution channel to be notified,  time for SKU's to be created,  propigated,  employee's to be trained.

Bioware didn't do all of this in 4 weeks on a whim.  This has long been planned.  You're not seeing anything extra,  you're seeing stuff long defined and scheduled for development,  where the concious decision was made to sell it all as DLC seperate from the product you payed for.

Which is getting really old really fast.  Seperating chunks out in order to milk people on Day 1 for more money after they bought the game is ridiculous.

#8891
AlanC9

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Tar-Minastir wrote...
Last I checked ME3 was a sequal to ME and ME2, meaning that the protheans are massively important regardless of how you try and phrase the main plot of ME3 and yes, I am claiming Casey is lying/misleading in an attempt to cover bioware's ass.  


How could this particular prothean be important if he's not in my game?

Unless, of course, he is in my game and just isn't a squadmate. In which case Casey's statement is slightly misleading, but his choices there are either slightly misleading or spoiler.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 février 2012 - 09:57 .


#8892
Kithrus

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RDSFirebane wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...


Thats not the same thing, those dlc came out way after the release of Mass Effect 2.  This DLC is free with the Collectors Edition and is 10$ if you have the Standard Edition.  Zaeed and Firewalker (both great DLC) were free at launch with new copies of the game, so why not From Ashes?


Because they never said Zaeed was CE only? pretty sure they didnt anyway the Pro. price was covered in our CE payment.


You got ripped off

#8893
Tobey2011

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MissOuJ wrote...

Tobey2011 wrote...

How stupid are you that you dont realise that I was being sarcastic?


Have you read this thread? TBH, I wound't be surprised to see an argument like that here. Plus, sarcasm translates poorly in the internet.

Also, no need for personal insults. We're all adults here. And even if we aren't at least we could act like it.


Well as you interpret my question as an argument, I guess you already understood my sarcasm... So I don't really know what to do but to facepalm. It is a humourus comment, although I wouldn't be too surprised if EA started charging for patches, since you know, the budget for the game was already used before certification. It's the same logic as the DLC, you just wait.

#8894
Augster75

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Tobey2011 wrote...

GET IT OVER WITH ALREADY AND RELEASE THE DLC FOR FREE!!!

While they're at it, why not just give LotSB and Arrival and Overlord for free? **** all the people who actually bought it. :D


Thats not the same thing, those dlc came out way after the release of Mass Effect 2.  This DLC is free with the Collectors Edition and is 10$ if you have the Standard Edition.  Zaeed and Firewalker (both great DLC) were free at launch with new copies of the game, so why not From Ashes?


Free? You're ****ing kidding right? The DLC is no ****ing sense free. CE's payed extra for all the content they're getting, that includes the DLC. This isn't like DA2's Signature Edition where all Day 1 DLC was included for free. It's certainly much cheaper than the $10 the DLC is normally priced at, but in NO way is it free.


Don't kid yourself. You've only paid 20 dollars more for a CE that includes the soundtrack, artbook, an exclusive lithograph (that costs around 10 dollars at least) and two small scaled DLC's. So please stop acting like you've actually paid enough to get that DLC for free.

#8895
Tar-Minastir

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AlanC9 wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...
Last I checked ME3 was a sequal to ME and ME2, meaning that the protheans are massively important regardless of how you try and phrase the main plot of ME3 and yes, I am claiming Casey is lying/misleading in an attempt to cover bioware's ass.  


How could this particular prothean be important if he's not in my game?


That's the point.  Enjoy having to pay extra for a complete game/story.

#8896
CommanderCoffee

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Kithrus wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.

CE Purchaser: this is a f*king outrage, you gave them something we paid for!!
Bioware:, We will compensate you with a free DLC
SE Purchaser: this is a f*cking outrage.........................

And thus the circle continues...


Oh hey! an example of a positive feedback loop!


Yes they exsist, doesn't lend cretance to your point though just means Bioware has to find another way.


Oh hey! Hostility! Whatsa mattuh, want free DLC?

#8897
RDSFirebane

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AlanC9 wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...
Last I checked ME3 was a sequal to ME and ME2, meaning that the protheans are massively important regardless of how you try and phrase the main plot of ME3 and yes, I am claiming Casey is lying/misleading in an attempt to cover bioware's ass.  


How could this particular prothean be important if he's not in my game?


he isnt. in any way there is no hidden god mode. Hes just a nice add in. This has been said more times then I can care to count.

#8898
AlanC9

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Tar-Minastir wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...
Last I checked ME3 was a sequal to ME and ME2, meaning that the protheans are massively important regardless of how you try and phrase the main plot of ME3 and yes, I am claiming Casey is lying/misleading in an attempt to cover bioware's ass.  


How could this particular prothean be important if he's not in my game?


That's the point.  Enjoy having to pay extra for a complete game/story.


Dude, reading comprehension. He's not going to be in my game because I'm not buying the DLC. And if he isn't improtant then Casey isn't lying.

The game's going to be just fine without him.

Edit: no point in discussing this, though. In two weeks we'll know exactly how unimportant this DLC is. At which point there will be endless posts from people who expected something gigantically important in the DLC.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 février 2012 - 10:01 .


#8899
BaronIveagh

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RiouHotaru wrote...

That argument only holds water if this were ME1 or 2, where the Protheans both had a role in the overall game.  In ME3?  They don't.  In fact, the quota of relevance the Protheans had was spent back in 2.


Well, one, you don't know that the Protheans have no larger role in the game, because we have nto played it yet.  Two, I'll grant to Shepard's personal story, maybe, but to the galaxy at large, no, this is totally wrong.  And, again, the Hanar would be declaring him a God, the Turians would be trying to question him about tech, and the asari would be trying to either play everyside against the middle or trying to sort the politcal mess it would cause out.

And every last one of them would want to know if he had some super tech that could stop the reapers.  Being, you know, that the Protheans still had better tech then any living race save the geth and the Reapers.


MostlyAutumn wrote...
Right, who cares about political, economic and military strength when there is a PROTHEAN.


Well...
considering the Citidel races have, in the past, expended large amounts
of those three things to get a shot at a few scraps of working prothean
tech.... 

#8900
ElementL09

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Just saying (and this can be debatable), the Collectors edition, without From Ashes is still worth the extra 20$. It just seems like it it was just given away for free for those who pre-orded the CE. Oh and yes I did pre-order the CE.