13369 réponses à ce sujet

[LilyasAvalon]

@Kithrus: You could be Jesus and I wouldn't care, just please trim down the quote pyramids! D:

[AkiKishi]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

On a side note, does anybody else remember a time when Collector's Edition just meant your game came in a fancier box and, at most, you got, maybe a collector's tin or mousepad and the game's soundtrack?

When I look at CE's nowadays, it feels more like it's about companies trying to outdo each other.

My Last Story CE just arrived a few minutes ago.

Steel box, art book, sound track and a manual/guide you could flatten a small rodent with.

CE's should be about goods not about "game advantage".

[LilyasAvalon]

RiouHotaru wrote...

For the record?

EA didn't make Bioware include the MP mode. That was Bioware's idea.

EA probably encouraged them to look into it. If they did, they actually did something good for once, MP turned out great.

[Kithrus]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

1) People leaving anything starts with one person and its short sighted to think otherwise.

2) Life is not fair yes but since when has it hurt to make it as fair as possible? Last time I checked most parents teach their young to leave this world better then when they got there or has that message suddenly lost merit?

The gaming community has lost all reason and standards.  We have developed a it's not my problem so screw it mentality.

Kinda reminds me of...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Obviously the situation is nowhere near as dire, but the concept fits.  I don't care if the company is overpricing their content b/c I can afford it.  I don't care that they are using gimmicks/missinformation to makes sales.  I don't care that they are breaking a product down to milk more money out of it.  I don't care that they are realizing quality doesn't matter b/c their mindless fan base will pad their bottom line regardless.

Stand on principles and we will get better games and better service.  The company will make money and be loved everyone wins.  Not to say the ME is in anyway bad, just giving general advice.

dude, drinks on me? where you at?

[CommanderCoffee]

[quote]Kithrus wrote...

[quote]CommanderCoffee wrote...

[quote]Kithrus wrote...

[quote]CommanderCoffee wrote...

[quote]Kithrus wrote...

[quote]CommanderCoffee wrote...

[quote]Kithrus wrote...

[quote]CommanderCoffee wrote...

[quote]LilyasAvalon wrote...

[quote]DJBare wrote...

[quote]Tar-Minastir wrote...

Well CE purchaser are all ready getting somethings so all that needs to be addessed is giving them furture dlc for free.  Hell, imagine if you get credit towards the next shadow broker type dlc.  It be worth more than the 10 the bucks imo.

[/quote]CE Purchaser: this is a f*king outrage, you gave them something we paid for!!
Bioware:, We will compensate you with a free DLC
SE Purchaser: this is a f*cking outrage.........................

[/quote]
And thus the circle continues...

[/quote]

Oh hey! an example of a positive feedback loop!

[/quote]

Yes they exsist, doesn't lend cretance to your point though just means Bioware has to find another way.

[/quote]

Oh hey! Hostility! Whatsa mattuh, want free DLC?

[/quote]

I think if I own my own company I can afford DLC. What bothers me isn't the price as much as these actions represent a trend of segment conteant from devolpment to milk extra money from the fans.

Making the assumption that I want 'free stuff' is a juvenile and poorly generlized projection placed on fans not unlike yourself who unlike yourself have the wit to see what this treatment represents.

I loved Bioware because they made me feel as a customer 'loved'. If they are going pull stuff like this I'm taking my money elsewhere.

Hopefully they get the message before I'm too far gone to care to return.

[/quote]

Okay. One person isn't going to make a difference. I'm going to enjoy ME3 despite any flaws that happed before, during, or after release. Including this. Anyone whining about how this practice isn't fair is fairly juvinile. Life isn't fair.
[/quote]

1) People leaving anything starts with one person and its short sighted to think otherwise.

2) Life is not fair yes but since when has it hurt to make it as fair as possible? Last time I checked most parents teach their young to leave this world better then when they got there or has that message suddenly lost merit?

[/quote]

That's how you grew up. I was raised to be responsible, worry only about myself, and make my own descisions. By trying to force things to equalize, I'm forcing people to adhere to something I want that may not work for them.

Simpler words, you're a societalist, I'm an individualist. 

[/quote]

No I'm an Aristotelian. The Truth is ultimately more important and the truth makes the world a better place. Maybe not right away as there are always growing pains with change but getting back to the point at hand the truth of the matter is nickel and diming your customers to death is bad.

Period.

[/quote]

So it's the whole "ethics versus morals" debate all over again. Somebody make the popcorn.

Seriosuly, you can insult my views, but the moment you even imply that the way I was raised by my parents is wrong is the instant you've crossed the line. I suggest you back off.

[_symphony]

quote pyramid, quote pyramid : (

[MissOuJ]

_symphony wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Blacktric wrote...

Don't kid yourself. You've only paid 20 dollars more for a CE that includes the soundtrack, artbook, an exclusive lithograph (that costs around 10 dollars at least) and two small scaled DLC's. So please stop acting like you've actually paid enough to get that DLC for free.

I'm paying the equivalent of $120 for the CE. So yeah, I think I deserve the Prothean as well.

Also, if $20 is just $20, then an extra $10 is practically nothing, right?

everyone deserve the prothean, but you don't want anyone that didn't fork the money to have it. Did you buy the CE for get the CE or just a squadmate?

Yes. That and the soundtrack. I'm not big on lithographies or robo-dogs or comics, but I knew BioWare had done awesome job with Kasumi and... pretty good job with Sebastian (he's a really interesting character and adds to the lore, but I just hate him as a character, so I might be biased against him).

I knew the extra character might be Zaeed 2.0 or something similar (which would've sucked). Again, I took a gamble, and it paid off.

Paying $10 extra for something CE owners get isn't really that bad. Also, believing EA/BioWare would actually sell the CE if it was unprofitable for them is pretty silly. And no, extra plastic stuff and couple appearance packs don't equal $20 (yet alone extra $60!) - not even the litographies if you buy in bulk from the manufacturer.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 février 2012 - 10:25 .

[Tar-Minastir]

Kithrus wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

1) People leaving anything starts with one person and its short sighted to think otherwise.

2) Life is not fair yes but since when has it hurt to make it as fair as possible? Last time I checked most parents teach their young to leave this world better then when they got there or has that message suddenly lost merit?

The gaming community has lost all reason and standards.  We have developed a it's not my problem so screw it mentality.

Kinda reminds me of...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Obviously the situation is nowhere near as dire, but the concept fits.  I don't care if the company is overpricing their content b/c I can afford it.  I don't care that they are using gimmicks/missinformation to makes sales.  I don't care that they are breaking a product down to milk more money out of it.  I don't care that they are realizing quality doesn't matter b/c their mindless fan base will pad their bottom line regardless.

Stand on principles and we will get better games and better service.  The company will make money and be loved everyone wins.  Not to say the ME is in anyway bad, just giving general advice.

dude, drinks on me? where you at?

Thanks,

I could use a drink been up all night 

[LilyasAvalon]

BobSmith101 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

On a side note, does anybody else remember a time when Collector's Edition just meant your game came in a fancier box and, at most, you got, maybe a collector's tin or mousepad and the game's soundtrack?

When I look at CE's nowadays, it feels more like it's about companies trying to outdo each other.

My Last Story CE just arrived a few minutes ago.

Steel box, art book, sound track and a manual/guide you could flatten a small rodent with.

CE's should be about goods not about "game advantage".

I disagree. CE's were more just about going that extra mile to show the developers: Hey, thanks for making this. 

And they'd include something small, e.g. like a soundtrack or mousepad to show their apperciation. Materialistic or digital items are nice, but in the end, kind of cheapen the value for me, because, like I said, it really feels more about companies trying to outdo each other.

I miss simplier times.

[LilyasAvalon]

_symphony wrote...

quote pyramid, quote pyramid : (

QUICK! GET ON THE PARTY TEMPLE BEFORE YOU'RE CRUSHED! D:

[Tar-Minastir]

_symphony wrote...

quote pyramid, quote pyramid : (

You mean you don't like to see my paragraph in a one word column right in the middle of his post? 

[Exia001]

We are talking about a Video Game right? Its not like there are starving children in the world or people being oppressed due to their sex religion or sexuality, I do not understand why people are getting a moral bee in their bonnett over this, you want to buy the DLC? Do Dont? then dont, but lets sto making video games the centre pf the universe and focus on more important things

[MissOuJ]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

The gaming community has lost all reason and standards.  We have developed a it's not my problem so screw it mentality.

Kinda reminds me of...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Obviously the situation is nowhere near as dire, but the concept fits.  I don't care if the company is overpricing their content b/c I can afford it.  I don't care that they are using gimmicks/missinformation to makes sales.  I don't care that they are breaking a product down to milk more money out of it.  I don't care that they are realizing quality doesn't matter b/c their mindless fan base will pad their bottom line regardless.

Stand on principles and we will get better games and better service.  The company will make money and be loved everyone wins.  Not to say the ME is in anyway bad, just giving general advice.

Protip:

Only National Socialists are like National Socialists.

Also, Godwin's Law.

/thread

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 février 2012 - 10:32 .

[RDSFirebane]

Exia001 wrote...

We are talking about a Video Game right? Its not like there are starving children in the world or people being oppressed due to their sex religion or sexuality, I do not understand why people are getting a moral bee in their bonnett over this, you want to buy the DLC? Do Dont? then dont, but lets sto making video games the centre pf the universe and focus on more important things

^ This.

[Kithrus]

CommanderCoffee wrote...

So it's the whole "ethics versus morals" debate all over again. Somebody make the popcorn.

Seriosuly, you can insult my views, but the moment you even imply that the way I was raised by my parents is wrong is the instant you've crossed the line. I suggest you back off.

How does that even make sence right after you finished saying you only look out for youself?

[LilyasAvalon]

Exia001 wrote...

We are talking about a Video Game right? Its not like there are starving children in the world or people being oppressed due to their sex religion or sexuality, I do not understand why people are getting a moral bee in their bonnett over this, you want to buy the DLC? Do Dont? then dont, but lets sto making video games the centre pf the universe and focus on more important things

...INTELLIGENCE! GET IT! *Chases after Exia with a pitchfork and an angry mob*

[Tar-Minastir]

Exia001 wrote...

We are talking about a Video Game right? Its not like there are starving children in the world or people being oppressed due to their sex religion or sexuality, I do not understand why people are getting a moral bee in their bonnett over this, you want to buy the DLC? Do Dont? then dont, but lets sto making video games the centre pf the universe and focus on more important things

Just b/c other greater problems exist does not mean this is not a problem.  For example should I not fix the door to my bathroom b/c I could send those tools and materials to africa?

This is a mostly reasonable debate about business practices and consumer freedom with a little bit of sociology thrown in.  If these other problems were so important to you, what are you doing one these forums?  Go forth and save the downtrodden masses.

[Exia001]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

We are talking about a Video Game right? Its not like there are starving children in the world or people being oppressed due to their sex religion or sexuality, I do not understand why people are getting a moral bee in their bonnett over this, you want to buy the DLC? Do Dont? then dont, but lets sto making video games the centre pf the universe and focus on more important things

...INTELLIGENCE! GET IT! *Chases after Exia with a pitchfork and an angry mob*

Well, that sucks, I'm a cripple

[AkiKishi]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

On a side note, does anybody else remember a time when Collector's Edition just meant your game came in a fancier box and, at most, you got, maybe a collector's tin or mousepad and the game's soundtrack?

When I look at CE's nowadays, it feels more like it's about companies trying to outdo each other.

My Last Story CE just arrived a few minutes ago.

Steel box, art book, sound track and a manual/guide you could flatten a small rodent with.

CE's should be about goods not about "game advantage".

I disagree. CE's were more just about going that extra mile to show the developers: Hey, thanks for making this. 

And they'd include something small, e.g. like a soundtrack or mousepad to show their apperciation. Materialistic or digital items are nice, but in the end, kind of cheapen the value for me, because, like I said, it really feels more about companies trying to outdo each other.

I miss simplier times.

I always collected them for the "stuff".

I'm not even sure CE's make that much more money over SE's.

If you take something like DLC it has no real cost (maybe VA). Items have to be outsourced and have a unit cost.

Also I think people are overlooking the markup while they are paying £20 more, they are not paying it to EA.
I'd be quite suprised if the DLC really cost that much to make,compared to the items. 
 

[Tar-Minastir]

MissOuJ wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

The gaming community has lost all reason and standards.  We have developed a it's not my problem so screw it mentality.

Kinda reminds me of...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Obviously the situation is nowhere near as dire, but the concept fits.  I don't care if the company is overpricing their content b/c I can afford it.  I don't care that they are using gimmicks/missinformation to makes sales.  I don't care that they are breaking a product down to milk more money out of it.  I don't care that they are realizing quality doesn't matter b/c their mindless fan base will pad their bottom line regardless.

Stand on principles and we will get better games and better service.  The company will make money and be loved everyone wins.  Not to say the ME is in anyway bad, just giving general advice.

Protip:

Only National Socialists are like National Socialists.

Also, Godwin's Law.

/thread

Lol good point except godwin doensn't apply here b/c I was making a reference to mentality not directly calling anyone a ****.  It's more like a model for ignorance in this case rather than for cruelty.

[AkiKishi]

Exia001 wrote...

We are talking about a Video Game right? Its not like there are starving children in the world or people being oppressed due to their sex religion or sexuality, I do not understand why people are getting a moral bee in their bonnett over this, you want to buy the DLC? Do Dont? then dont, but lets sto making video games the centre pf the universe and focus on more important things

Things will eventually find their own balance.

[BaronIveagh]

MissOuJ wrote...

Whatäs your experience in the industry?

Four year degree, certification, ten years as IT in industry, four in the gaming industry.  Three running my own consultancy.

MissOuJ wrote...
Also, since BioWare has engaged in similar practise in the past (Soldier's Peak in DAO, Sebastian in DA2...) and we all know both DAO and DA2 were complete games without SP/Sebastian, I don't believe the Prothean adds any more than those two Day-1 DLC's did.

Not good examples.  SP you missed out on the most powerful swords in the game.  Sebastian you missed out on a reason to care about the Chantry at all if your sister was the surviving sibling.

MissOuJ wrote...
As for the multiplayer: it could be EA corporate policy (although I doubt we'll se DA multiplayer anytime soon...) but the fact of the matter still is developing it cost time, money, and manhours. They decided to make it available for new buyers, all who buy used have to pay extra if they want to play it. This is the only money EA/BioWare will see of used game sales, so I consider that to be fair.

That's your choice.  But for a game they had no intention of bringing out MP for and then haivng EA decide that all of them had to have it, well...  not sure that having soemthing tehy required for the game be considered some sort of bonus.  I know I have no particular use for it.

MissOuJ wrote...
What "unfinished" games have been certified? The only one I can think of is the Half-Life Episodes 1 and 2, but everybody knew from the start how that was going to play out. You pay for "Episodes", you get "Episodes"; I guess the people who were responsible for the Certification process knew it too.

And no, games ending with a cliffhanger don't count. That's an annoying, but legitimate, story telling mechanic. I stll think it should be illegal to end your game with a cliffhanger if your sequel hasn't been greenlit yet and already in production, but I don't make these desicions, so I get to deal with it.

Duke Nukem Forever.  Dust Force, the Witcher 2, V:TM Bloodlines.... minecraft...

[The Dark Knight of Steel]

a thread that was supposed to be wicked awesome has turned into one giant stupid argument.

oh hey I bought and played Me1&2 and since the ending of the game is so important ME3 should be free bioware has taken advantage of us by making 3 separate games making us spend more money. bioware is very greedy and we should not stand for this.

I here by cancel my pre order and will never buy another bioware game, what they have done to us fans is atrocious and I will not partake in it.

I mean $60 to find out how ME1 ended is bs it should be a free dlc, those cheap selfish bas**rds.

[LilyasAvalon]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I always collected them for the "stuff".

I'm not even sure CE's make that much more money over SE's.

If you take something like DLC it has no real cost (maybe VA). Items have to be outsourced and have a unit cost.

Also I think people are overlooking the markup while they are paying £20 more, they are not paying it to EA.
I'd be quite suprised if the DLC really cost that much to make,compared to the items. 
 

Really? They have machines and companies to make all the physical items now. But, a DLC like say, Arrival or LotSB, you have to pay the writers, the VA's, the programmers, etc.

[BaronIveagh]

MissOuJ wrote...

Protip:

Only National Socialists are like National Socialists.

Also, Godwin's Law.

/thread

Protip: learn to use brain

In the context he's talking about complacently accepting things without speaking out.  Not National Socialists. 

Godwin does not apply. 

Carry on.