13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Kithrus]

BaronIveagh wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Whatäs your experience in the industry?

Four year degree, certification, ten years as IT in industry, four in the gaming industry.  Three running my own consultancy.

MissOuJ wrote...
Also, since BioWare has engaged in similar practise in the past (Soldier's Peak in DAO, Sebastian in DA2...) and we all know both DAO and DA2 were complete games without SP/Sebastian, I don't believe the Prothean adds any more than those two Day-1 DLC's did.

Not good examples.  SP you missed out on the most powerful swords in the game.  Sebastian you missed out on a reason to care about the Chantry at all if your sister was the surviving sibling.

MissOuJ wrote...
As for the multiplayer: it could be EA corporate policy (although I doubt we'll se DA multiplayer anytime soon...) but the fact of the matter still is developing it cost time, money, and manhours. They decided to make it available for new buyers, all who buy used have to pay extra if they want to play it. This is the only money EA/BioWare will see of used game sales, so I consider that to be fair.

That's your choice.  But for a game they had no intention of bringing out MP for and then haivng EA decide that all of them had to have it, well...  not sure that having soemthing tehy required for the game be considered some sort of bonus.  I know I have no particular use for it.

MissOuJ wrote...
What "unfinished" games have been certified? The only one I can think of is the Half-Life Episodes 1 and 2, but everybody knew from the start how that was going to play out. You pay for "Episodes", you get "Episodes"; I guess the people who were responsible for the Certification process knew it too.

And no, games ending with a cliffhanger don't count. That's an annoying, but legitimate, story telling mechanic. I stll think it should be illegal to end your game with a cliffhanger if your sequel hasn't been greenlit yet and already in production, but I don't make these desicions, so I get to deal with it.

Duke Nukem Forever.  Dust Force, the Witcher 2, V:TM Bloodlines.... minecraft...

VTM Bloodlines.....
To this day I wonder how much more epic that game could have been if finished.

And still so unfinished it was STILL a must own.

If I had the money I would buy that game foreveryone even remotly interested. Some of the best times I had in gaming and one of the few games that scared the **** out of me... Oh coastside hotel....


/shiver

[Dilos01]

The Dark Knight of Steel wrote...

a thread that was supposed to be wicked awesome has turned into one giant stupid argument.

oh hey I bought and played Me1&2 and since the ending of the game is so important ME3 should be free bioware has taken advantage of us by making 3 separate games making us spend more money. bioware is very greedy and we should not stand for this.

I here by cancel my pre order and will never buy another bioware game, what they have done to us fans is atrocious and I will not partake in it.

I mean $60 to find out how ME1 ended is bs it should be a free dlc, those cheap selfish bas**rds.

Not sure if serious

Also, were getting close to 360 here!  I'm actually excited to seeing what the next post will be like! 

[BaronIveagh]

Kithrus wrote...

VTM Bloodlines.....
To this day I wonder how much more epic that game could have been if finished.

And still so unfinished it was STILL a must own.

If I had the money I would buy that game foreveryone even remotly interested. Some of the best times I had in gaming and one of the few games that scared the **** out of me... Oh coastside hotel...

I know, the programmers worked free at the end, to finish the only offical patch.

[AkiKishi]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

I always collected them for the "stuff".

I'm not even sure CE's make that much more money over SE's.

If you take something like DLC it has no real cost (maybe VA). Items have to be outsourced and have a unit cost.

Also I think people are overlooking the markup while they are paying £20 more, they are not paying it to EA.
I'd be quite suprised if the DLC really cost that much to make,compared to the items. 
 

Really? They have machines and companies to make all the physical items now. But, a DLC like say, Arrival or LotSB, you have to pay the writers, the VA's, the programmers, etc.

Those guys are employees (aside from VA) so you pay them whether they make DLC or play Nerf in the carpark.
VA varies a lot, they used to get paid by the line which can add up pretty quick. But compared to hiring someone like TIM , pretty insignificant. 

Items have a unit cost. Every item you make costs you something.Once you pay to create the comic you still have ink/paper. DLC only has a production cost after that it's pure profit.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

It doesn't affect me personally, since I am getting the CE. However, I think it's kinda bull. The Prothean squad mate/mission was leaked how many months ago? Wasn't it November? At that point, BioWare would not confirm/deny the facts. They were obviously working on it LONG before the game was sent to certification. And by a different team? What does that matter? The art and programming teams are different, should we pay extra for all the art in the game?

But as I said, since I have the CE, I'm not personally affected by it. But it's BS for so many other people.

[MissOuJ]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Four year degree, certification, ten years as IT in industry, four in the gaming industry.  Three running my own consultancy.

OK! I can see you know what you're taking about!

SP you missed out on the most powerful swords in the game.  Sebastian
you missed out on a reason to care about the Chantry at all if your
sister was the surviving sibling.

That might well be, but I've finished both of those games without these DLC's and they worked fine. I later bought Sebastian, and as I said, found him interesting (if a bit frustrating) character - it still doesn't make him essential to the game. He's extra, as is SP.

That's your choice.  But for a game they had no intention of bringing
out MP for and then haivng EA decide that all of them had to have it,
well...  not sure that having soemthing tehy required for the game be
considered some sort of bonus.  I know I have no particular use for it.

Do you have proof for that? Because I heard the MP was BW's idea. Also, loads of people have taken new interest to the ME franchise because of the MP, and new customers are always a plus.

Duke Nukem Forever.  Dust Force, the Witcher 2, V:TM Bloodlines.... minecraft...

DNF was a bad game, but as far as I know, people were able to finish it (that is, if they actually cared to finish it). Minecraft is an indie title - and a "creativity sandbox" sort of game, so I wouldn't call it unfinished. I haven't played W2, but (again, AFAIK) it is possible to finish it. Hence, passed certification = complete game.

Of course there's lot more to certification than "is it actially physically possible to finish it", but you get what I'm getting at.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 février 2012 - 11:05 .

[Olej z Maku]

I think From Ashes should be part of the game or at least free DLC. SE with standard aaa price should cover all the content developed before the release and intended to be sell within few day after release except perhaps minor cosmetic stuff.

If Bioware/EA have different opinion than I am not buying the game.

[Kithrus]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

It doesn't affect me personally, since I am getting the CE. However, I think it's kinda bull. The Prothean squad mate/mission was leaked how many months ago? Wasn't it November? At that point, BioWare would not confirm/deny the facts. They were obviously working on it LONG before the game was sent to certification. And by a different team? What does that matter? The art and programming teams are different, should we pay extra for all the art in the game?

But as I said, since I have the CE, I'm not personally affected by it. But it's BS for so many other people.

So if I may beg the question if its unjust or wrong why do you only care when it effects you? I cancelled my pre order CE. It 'didnt effect me' but thats doesn't make it right.

I'd be lying if I said I REALLY didn't want it.

[AkiKishi]

MS/Sony get a cut of DLC so it's not like they would say a game is incomplete because something was taken out of the game to be sold.

[RDSFirebane]

MissOuJ wrote...

That's your choice.  But for a game they had no intention of bringing
out MP for and then haivng EA decide that all of them had to have it,
well...  not sure that having soemthing tehy required for the game be
considered some sort of bonus.  I know I have no particular use for it.

Do you have proof for that? Because I heard the MP was BW's idea. Also, loads of people have taken new interest on the ME franchise because of the MP, and new customers are always a plus.

Well go find the Dev vid where the guy says BioWare wanted to add in MP but refused to do it inless it made since which it does in 3. so yes MissOuJ you are correct.

[Evilelf007]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...]

No. That is an opinion that is flawed if gaming development is truly fully understood to you.

As I asked you a while ago with no reply: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with?  

In the end, this is Bioware's intellectual property, and they can package it as they please.  The consumer will either accept it or not.  In this case, I think the consumers will overwhelmingly accept it... it's just a vocal minority that is crying foul.

Bioware wins again!

[g99]

This ramble is getting more and more pathetic (generally the fact the thread is now 360 pages long and most of it is how we are annoyed by the marketing).
I wonder what is next on the line with DLC?
What! A pay DLC for every companion separately, Liara T'soni for 25$ and additional romance with her for next 10$. New skin for Shepard's N7 for 2,5 $ and not to mention an additional level of Normandy with bonus lights for 10$ extra. Choose...

[The Dark Knight of Steel]

Dilos01 wrote...

The Dark Knight of Steel wrote...

a thread that was supposed to be wicked awesome has turned into one giant stupid argument.

oh hey I bought and played Me1&2 and since the ending of the game is so important ME3 should be free bioware has taken advantage of us by making 3 separate games making us spend more money. bioware is very greedy and we should not stand for this.

I here by cancel my pre order and will never buy another bioware game, what they have done to us fans is atrocious and I will not partake in it.

I mean $60 to find out how ME1 ended is bs it should be a free dlc, those cheap selfish bas**rds.

Not sure if serious

Also, were getting close to 360 here!  I'm actually excited to seeing what the next post will be like! 

I was totaly joking i for one can't wait to play ME3 and the dlc plus im addicted to the multiplayer
. bioware is definitly one of the best gaming companies around, they even have a Chris Priestly a necessary evil Like T.I.M.

[g99]

This ramble is getting more and more pathetic (generally the fact the thread is now 360 pages long and most of it is how we are annoyed by the marketing).
I wonder what is next on the line with DLC?
What! A pay DLC for every companion separately, Liara T'soni for 25$ and additional romance with her for next 10$. New skin for Shepard's N7 for 2,5 $ and not to mention an additional level of Normandy with bonus lights for 10$ extra. Choose...

[IIIMystIII]

I really don't know how Bioware or anyone else for that matter can call ME3 "complete" when they have point blank admitted to have DLC content sitting there ready for day one. The fanboys can try and spin it anyway they want but that fact is sitting right there like the proverbial elephant in the room. Clear as day it blatantly defies the textbook definition of "complete".

Poor form indeed, Bioware. You guys have caved in to EA far too much this time around.

Modifié par IIIMystIII, 25 février 2012 - 11:06 .

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Kithrus, I am already stopping my support of ALL EA/BioWare products after Mass Effect 3. That includes any future KotOR/TOR, ME, DA, NWN, etc. games. Even games like Theme Park I won't buy. I am doing this not because of the DLC, but Origin. So I already have my reasons for stopping support. But I am going to get and beat ME3, because I always intended to.

I've already spoken up in this thread about it. It wouldn't bother me a darn bit if the DLC became available for everyone; I'm already getting my money's worth on the CE with the other stuff.

AFAIK the Cerberus Network was supposed to have ongoing support for DLC, but we didn't get it. Why then did you continue to support ME2? :-P Because you wanted the game and all its DLC.

*Edited second paragraph: DLC => CE*

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 25 février 2012 - 12:04 .

[RDSFirebane]

IIIMystIII wrote...

I really don't know how Bioware or anyone else for that matter can call ME3 "complete" when they have point blank admitted to have DLC content sitting there ready for day one. The fanboys can try and spin it anyway they want but that fact is sitting right there like the proverbial elephant in the room. Clear as day it blatantly defies the textbook definition of "complete".

Poor form indeed, Bioware.

Kinda like asking for a glass of water and being given a warm glass when you can see ice on the other side of the room. you did indeed get a full glass of water the ice is an option and not needed.....

[Kithrus]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Kithrus, I am already stopping my support of ALL EA/BioWare products after Mass Effect 3. That includes any future KotOR/TOR, ME, DA, NWN, etc. games. Even games like Theme Park I won't buy. I am doing this not because of the DLC, but Origin. So I already have my reasons for stopping support. But I am going to get and beat ME3, because I always intended to.

I've already spoken up in this thread about it. It wouldn't bother me a darn bit if the DLC became available for everyone; I'm already getting my money's worth on the DLC with the other stuff.

AFAIK the Cerberus Network was supposed to have ongoing support for DLC, but we didn't get it. Why then did you continue to support ME2? :-P Because you wanted the game and all its DLC.

We beg to differ there on what is unfair then but I can see you are at lest logically and consitantly sound.

[AkiKishi]

Evilelf007 wrote...

In the end, this is Bioware's intellectual property, and they can package it as they please.  The consumer will either accept it or not.  In this case, I think the consumers will overwhelmingly accept it... it's just a vocal minority that is crying foul.

Bioware wins again!

You are very short sighted. ME3 will sell on the strength of ME2 just like DA2 (despite being junk) sold on the strength of DA:O.
Even though DA2 was dire and failed. Bioware was never in an danger while they had ME3 in thier back pocket.

ME3 pre-orders are good , but nowhere near as good as EA wanted. Around double of DA2 , for a game that likely cost many times that to make. The advertising alone probably runs into the 10's of millions.

After ME3 you have a lot of people with a very bad taste in their mouths even if they do buy the DLC. I've seen the IGN preview, the demo flaws are in the full game. Lip syncing is way off and all in all the game looks unpolished.

This Is EA's reason to package the DLC. EA's heads were swimming with Skryrim like numbers. In reality ME3 is only going to be get Bioware like numbers. And if Bioware can't get thos numbers with their most antipated flag ship title. Then what chance do they have with a toxic reputation and no solid IP ? 

[Evilelf007]

IIIMystIII wrote...

I really don't know how Bioware or anyone else for that matter can call ME3 "complete" when they have point blank admitted to have DLC content sitting there ready for day one. The fanboys can try and spin it anyway they want but that fact is sitting right there like the proverbial elephant in the room. Clear as day it blatantly defies the textbook definition of "complete".

Poor form indeed, Bioware.

Designed and put together as a planned exclusive for the buyers of the CE, who have already paid for said dlc.

The fact that SE owners have the option to pay and play it is something they decided upon after seeing the CE sellout so fast.

SE owners have to pay for it if they want it, just like the CE owners already have.

[IIIMystIII]

Kinda like asking for a glass of water and being given a warm glass when you can see ice on the other side of the room. you did indeed get a full glass of water the ice is an option and not needed.....

Like I said, spin it how you will and tell yourself whatever you need to. The fact remains that ME3 is NOT being sold "complete" unless you get the CE/DDE.

[Evilelf007]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

In the end, this is Bioware's intellectual property, and they can package it as they please.  The consumer will either accept it or not.  In this case, I think the consumers will overwhelmingly accept it... it's just a vocal minority that is crying foul.

Bioware wins again!

You are very short sighted. ME3 will sell on the strength of ME2 just like DA2 (despite being junk) sold on the strength of DA:O.
Even though DA2 was dire and failed. Bioware was never in an danger while they had ME3 in thier back pocket.

ME3 pre-orders are good , but nowhere near as good as EA wanted. Around double of DA2 , for a game that likely cost many times that to make. The advertising alone probably runs into the 10's of millions.

After ME3 you have a lot of people with a very bad taste in their mouths even if they do buy the DLC. I've seen the IGN preview, the demo flaws are in the full game. Lip syncing is way off and all in all the game looks unpolished.

This Is EA's reason to package the DLC. EA's heads were swimming with Skryrim like numbers. In reality ME3 is only going to be get Bioware like numbers. And if Bioware can't get thos numbers with their most antipated flag ship title. Then what chance do they have with a toxic reputation and no solid IP ? 

ME2 sold 2mil copies globally in the first week... ME3 almost has that amount in pre-orders in the U.S. alone!  The number jumps dramatically when the international data will be made available after release.

This isn't just ME2 strength, it's series strength, quality marketing and Bioware reputation.

You as an individual may not be happy, but obviously most consumers are thrilled.

[RDSFirebane]

BobSmith101 wrote...

You are very short sighted. ME3 will sell on the strength of ME2 just like DA2 (despite being junk) sold on the strength of DA:O.
Even though DA2 was dire and failed. Bioware was never in an danger while they had ME3 in thier back pocket.

ME3 pre-orders are good , but nowhere near as good as EA wanted. Around double of DA2 , for a game that likely cost many times that to make. The advertising alone probably runs into the 10's of millions.

After ME3 you have a lot of people with a very bad taste in their mouths even if they do buy the DLC. I've seen the IGN preview, the demo flaws are in the full game. Lip syncing is way off and all in all the game looks unpolished.

This Is EA's reason to package the DLC. EA's heads were swimming with Skryrim like numbers. In reality ME3 is only going to be get Bioware like numbers. And if Bioware can't get thos numbers with their most antipated flag ship title. Then what chance do they have with a toxic reputation and no solid IP ? 

can we wait for after the game comes out and when we can see the sell numbers befor jumping that gun?

[Evilelf007]

IIIMystIII wrote...

Kinda like asking for a glass of water and being given a warm glass when you can see ice on the other side of the room. you did indeed get a full glass of water the ice is an option and not needed.....

Like I said, spin it how you will and tell yourself whatever you need to. The fact remains that ME3 is NOT being sold "complete" unless you get the CE/DDE.

With that logic, no car sold is "complete" unless it has all of the available options such as a sunroof or power seats etc.

EVERY other industry in the world has special options that the consumer can choose from when purchasing their product... why in the world did you possibly believe video games would be immune to such a thing?

[AkiKishi]

Evilelf007 wrote...

ME2 sold 2mil copies globally in the first week... ME3 almost has that amount in pre-orders in the U.S. alone!  The number jumps dramatically when the international data will be made available after release.

This isn't just ME2 strength, it's series strength, quality marketing and Bioware reputation.

You as an individual may not be happy, but obviously most consumers are thrilled.

Sure thrilled when Skyrim tops 10 million and what was it 6 million pre-orders for GoW? 

While you think 2 million is good EA does not. EA wanted to compete with Activision, you know those guys who print money every time they release a CoD map.