13369 réponses à ce sujet

[H1natachan]

Synthmilk wrote...

Well BioWare said it all really in this line:

" The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which
is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase)."

From Ashes was designed and targeted at long term fans.  Claming that this content being included in the CE game because "fans" are likely going to get that version is, frankly, incredibly arrogant and utterly insulting to all Mass Effect fans who do not have the money, or desire, for the extras inherent to a Collectors Edition.

Let me repeat that last part "the EXTRAS inherent to a Collectors Edition."

Content developed with the express intent at marketing it to "longtime fans" is not an EXTRA.  Claiming that content intended for the game that was started after the game was "content complete" (which is an oxy-moron because obviously it's not content complete if additional content is intended to be included on release day) with the knowledge it would not be able to be included on the physical disk but would be finished in time for the release of the game, does not somehow make that content EXTRA.

Trying to claim that "a separate team" developed this content is an attempt to imply that "it wasn't in the budget."  To which I call BU**SH*T.  Sure, BioWare doesn't have unlimited funds, but claiming that somehow the FREE DLC for ME2 wasn't an issue financially but THIS piece of DLC somehow IS, just further reinforces the concept that this content was intended from the start to be a big, valuable piece of the game.

From the standpoint of development, I do not see an argument for how this content is somehow an "extra", while at the same time developed for "long-time fans."  How is excluding this content from the base game doing them a favor?

From the standpoint of finances, I do not see an argument for how this content should cost more to have, when there are plenty of examples where similar content did not, and by all accounts Mass Effect 3 will be a blockbuster
title with massive profits.  Meaning whatever relatively minor budget (compared to the development of the main game) was required to produce this content would not be a financial burden.  If it needs to cost ten dollars to make up for it's development, that is simply incompetent management of resources on top of it all.

From the standpoint of simply doing right by the fans:  This content includes a character that for all intents and purposes has been built up in the previous games, especially the first game, to have significance second only to the Reapers themselves to Shepard personally and the story as a whole.  Not including it in the cost of the game, meaning Mass Effect 3: The Version The Vast Majority Of People Will Own, is an insult to everyone who has become emotionally invested in the story.

Claiming that it's included as part of a limited edition version of the game as some sort of gift to "long-term fans" is doublespeak of a magnitude typically only found in Orwellian dystopias.  Something developed for loyal fans is tucked away in a more expensive product, that not everyone can have.  Saying those loyal fans who weren't lucky enough to get a Collectors Edition can still PAY MORE for this content developed especially for them, is simply disgusting.

I will not be buying this game, or any other game made by BioWare, or EA, ever again.  Yes, I know many people are more than willing to pay more to get this and other similar content and I may be in a minority of customers, but that doesn't mean I am wrong, and it doesn't mean this type of behaviour on the part of a business is a good thing.

We have a winner ^^ .... So much this, people really need to wake up and smell the coffee :innocent:

[Evilelf007]

Again, 2mil isn't the final number of pre-orders, that is u.s. numbers alone. International pre-order numbers have yet to be reported.

[Blarty]

This is STILL going on? Dear god.... You're all individuals, get all the facts and make your own decision .... buy it, don't buy it, just make the ecision yourself and respect that others may not make the same decision as you, FFS this isn't the digital version of mob rule and people charging up the path holding burning torches and pitchforks. At one hand you won't have EA / Bioware tell you what to buy, what to think, etc but so many of you are super quick to post the link to TB's video though.

Now I like TB, I think he has some fair points and feels passionately about the issue and games in general and that's his opinion, others have different feelings and tolerances to the DLC issue. Now while everyone is talking about the ultimate end point of DLC being partial episodic content, the other extreme is also possible, that you have so much concern over things being 'content complete' that they produce no DLC or expansion packs for games at all, for fear of it not being considered feature complete.... Now you may laugh at the plausibility of this with your $25 for Liara comments, but why is this possibility any more implausible than episodic content.

Modifié par Blarty, 25 février 2012 - 11:25 .

[Errationatus]

One quick question:

Where can I find the outrage over pre-order bonuses?  Weapons folks won't get because they didn't order at a particular store?  Are they still included in the game or what?  Can I still get the M91000 UltraTesticularEnhancer Pistol and the Cornholer Cannon 92WTF if I didn't preorder the game at Gamestop?  It is game content removed from the game before launch and that is the moral highground here - (Thanks, TotalJackass!), and we do deserve all the content, right?

I think all preorder bonuses should be given us free.  NOW.

....So, that thread of outrage? Anyone?

[IIIMystIII]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Designed and put together as a planned exclusive for the buyers of the CE, who have already paid for said dlc.

The fact that SE owners have the option to pay and play it is something they decided upon after seeing the CE sellout so fast.

SE owners have to pay for it if they want it, just like the CE owners already have.

Remember the days when CEs used to be things like artbooks, cosmetic things and the like, not critical plot elements/characters...?

It is rather surprising yourself and others have simply rolled over and took this nonsense lying down. Especially when exploting mindless zealotry of the diehard fans is exactly what this scheme is all about. That said, it seems pointless arguing if people like you have chosen to ignore the rather obvious facts and choose to hand over your cash. If you can live with it, so be it. More power to you, I guess. But don't try to palm the issue off for anything but it is; an outright lie. The standard ME3 is simply and utterly not complete by every defination of the word, at least if Bioware go though with this scheme.

[Evilelf007]

Nobody wants to be told what is and isn't required, and what is and isn't optional... yet they are pretty damned quick to do that very thing to everyone else.

I am perfectly fine with how this is all going down. I'm only here because it helps pass the time until March 6th! 9 days, 18hrs, 37mins to ME3 release!

Modifié par Evilelf007, 25 février 2012 - 11:22 .

[AkiKishi]

RDSFirebane wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

You are very short sighted. ME3 will sell on the strength of ME2 just like DA2 (despite being junk) sold on the strength of DA:O.
Even though DA2 was dire and failed. Bioware was never in an danger while they had ME3 in thier back pocket.

ME3 pre-orders are good , but nowhere near as good as EA wanted. Around double of DA2 , for a game that likely cost many times that to make. The advertising alone probably runs into the 10's of millions.

After ME3 you have a lot of people with a very bad taste in their mouths even if they do buy the DLC. I've seen the IGN preview, the demo flaws are in the full game. Lip syncing is way off and all in all the game looks unpolished.

This Is EA's reason to package the DLC. EA's heads were swimming with Skryrim like numbers. In reality ME3 is only going to be get Bioware like numbers. And if Bioware can't get thos numbers with their most antipated flag ship title. Then what chance do they have with a toxic reputation and no solid IP ? 

can we wait for after the game comes out and when we can see the sell numbers befor jumping that gun?

Nah , same pattern as DA2  high initial sales(for Bioware), sharp drop then discounted in Amazon 25% within a month.

[Wugger]

H1natachan wrote...

Synthmilk wrote...

Well BioWare said it all really in this line:

" The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which
is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase)."

From Ashes was designed and targeted at long term fans.  Claming that this content being included in the CE game because "fans" are likely going to get that version is, frankly, incredibly arrogant and utterly insulting to all Mass Effect fans who do not have the money, or desire, for the extras inherent to a Collectors Edition.

Let me repeat that last part "the EXTRAS inherent to a Collectors Edition."

Content developed with the express intent at marketing it to "longtime fans" is not an EXTRA.  Claiming that content intended for the game that was started after the game was "content complete" (which is an oxy-moron because obviously it's not content complete if additional content is intended to be included on release day) with the knowledge it would not be able to be included on the physical disk but would be finished in time for the release of the game, does not somehow make that content EXTRA.

Trying to claim that "a separate team" developed this content is an attempt to imply that "it wasn't in the budget."  To which I call BU**SH*T.  Sure, BioWare doesn't have unlimited funds, but claiming that somehow the FREE DLC for ME2 wasn't an issue financially but THIS piece of DLC somehow IS, just further reinforces the concept that this content was intended from the start to be a big, valuable piece of the game.

From the standpoint of development, I do not see an argument for how this content is somehow an "extra", while at the same time developed for "long-time fans."  How is excluding this content from the base game doing them a favor?

From the standpoint of finances, I do not see an argument for how this content should cost more to have, when there are plenty of examples where similar content did not, and by all accounts Mass Effect 3 will be a blockbuster
title with massive profits.  Meaning whatever relatively minor budget (compared to the development of the main game) was required to produce this content would not be a financial burden.  If it needs to cost ten dollars to make up for it's development, that is simply incompetent management of resources on top of it all.

From the standpoint of simply doing right by the fans:  This content includes a character that for all intents and purposes has been built up in the previous games, especially the first game, to have significance second only to the Reapers themselves to Shepard personally and the story as a whole.  Not including it in the cost of the game, meaning Mass Effect 3: The Version The Vast Majority Of People Will Own, is an insult to everyone who has become emotionally invested in the story.

Claiming that it's included as part of a limited edition version of the game as some sort of gift to "long-term fans" is doublespeak of a magnitude typically only found in Orwellian dystopias.  Something developed for loyal fans is tucked away in a more expensive product, that not everyone can have.  Saying those loyal fans who weren't lucky enough to get a Collectors Edition can still PAY MORE for this content developed especially for them, is simply disgusting.

I will not be buying this game, or any other game made by BioWare, or EA, ever again.  Yes, I know many people are more than willing to pay more to get this and other similar content and I may be in a minority of customers, but that doesn't mean I am wrong, and it doesn't mean this type of behaviour on the part of a business is a good thing.

We have a winner ^^ .... So much this, people really need to wake up and smell the coffee :innocent:

This, this, a thousand times this.

[AkiKishi]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Again, 2mil isn't the final number of pre-orders, that is u.s. numbers alone. International pre-order numbers have yet to be reported.

By VG figures it's not 2 million where did you get those numbers?

[Evilelf007]

IIIMystIII wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Designed and put together as a planned exclusive for the buyers of the CE, who have already paid for said dlc.

The fact that SE owners have the option to pay and play it is something they decided upon after seeing the CE sellout so fast.

SE owners have to pay for it if they want it, just like the CE owners already have.

Remember the days when CEs used to be things like artbooks, cosmetic things and the like, not critical plot elements/characters...?

It is rather surprising yourself and others have simply rolled over and took this nonsense lying down. Especially when exploting mindless zealotry of the diehard fans is exactly what this scheme is all about. That said, it seems pointless arguing if people like you have chosen to ignore the rather obvious facts and choose to hand over your cash. If you can live with it, so be it. More power to you, I guess. But don't try to palm the issue off for anything but it is; an outright lie. The standard ME3 is simply and utterly not complete by every defination of the word, at least if Bioware go though with this scheme.

This was advertised as content for the CE from day one... that made me jump all that much quicker to order the CE!

I also have the ME2 CE, but I ordered that only a month prior, as I was debating whether it was worth it or not... this time, when I saw all that was included... which was also the extra squadmate and mission... I was sold!  I've had my ME3 CE reserved since last July!

[DJBare]

BobSmith101 wrote...

You are very short sighted. ME3 will sell on the strength of ME2 & ME1

Just a little edit.
For some that might be true, for me however is the fact that it's the "last" in the trilogy, I'll biatch after I've completed playing.

Modifié par DJBare, 25 février 2012 - 11:27 .

[Evilelf007]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Again, 2mil isn't the final number of pre-orders, that is u.s. numbers alone. International pre-order numbers have yet to be reported.

By VG figures it's not 2 million where did you get those numbers?

I said 2mil only in response to the previous post... what I did say previously is that the first week sales total of ME2 globally was 2mil, and that in the U.S. alone for ME3 Pre-orders have covered most of that number (ie more than half), and that is not yet counting international pre-orders.

Add in the sales that will take place after release and this will blow away ME2 easily.

[Dilos01]

360!

Let's see if this can get to 400!  Then the real debate will begin! 

[ElementL09]

H1natachan wrote...

Synthmilk wrote...

Well BioWare said it all really in this line:

" The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which
is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase)."

From Ashes was designed and targeted at long term fans.  Claming that this content being included in the CE game because "fans" are likely going to get that version is, frankly, incredibly arrogant and utterly insulting to all Mass Effect fans who do not have the money, or desire, for the extras inherent to a Collectors Edition.

Let me repeat that last part "the EXTRAS inherent to a Collectors Edition."

Content developed with the express intent at marketing it to "longtime fans" is not an EXTRA.  Claiming that content intended for the game that was started after the game was "content complete" (which is an oxy-moron because obviously it's not content complete if additional content is intended to be included on release day) with the knowledge it would not be able to be included on the physical disk but would be finished in time for the release of the game, does not somehow make that content EXTRA.

Trying to claim that "a separate team" developed this content is an attempt to imply that "it wasn't in the budget."  To which I call BU**SH*T.  Sure, BioWare doesn't have unlimited funds, but claiming that somehow the FREE DLC for ME2 wasn't an issue financially but THIS piece of DLC somehow IS, just further reinforces the concept that this content was intended from the start to be a big, valuable piece of the game.

From the standpoint of development, I do not see an argument for how this content is somehow an "extra", while at the same time developed for "long-time fans."  How is excluding this content from the base game doing them a favor?

From the standpoint of finances, I do not see an argument for how this content should cost more to have, when there are plenty of examples where similar content did not, and by all accounts Mass Effect 3 will be a blockbuster
title with massive profits.  Meaning whatever relatively minor budget (compared to the development of the main game) was required to produce this content would not be a financial burden.  If it needs to cost ten dollars to make up for it's development, that is simply incompetent management of resources on top of it all.

From the standpoint of simply doing right by the fans:  This content includes a character that for all intents and purposes has been built up in the previous games, especially the first game, to have significance second only to the Reapers themselves to Shepard personally and the story as a whole.  Not including it in the cost of the game, meaning Mass Effect 3: The Version The Vast Majority Of People Will Own, is an insult to everyone who has become emotionally invested in the story.

Claiming that it's included as part of a limited edition version of the game as some sort of gift to "long-term fans" is doublespeak of a magnitude typically only found in Orwellian dystopias.  Something developed for loyal fans is tucked away in a more expensive product, that not everyone can have.  Saying those loyal fans who weren't lucky enough to get a Collectors Edition can still PAY MORE for this content developed especially for them, is simply disgusting.

I will not be buying this game, or any other game made by BioWare, or EA, ever again.  Yes, I know many people are more than willing to pay more to get this and other similar content and I may be in a minority of customers, but that doesn't mean I am wrong, and it doesn't mean this type of behaviour on the part of a business is a good thing.

We have a winner ^^ .... So much this, people really need to wake up and smell the coffee :innocent:

[g99]

Evilelf007 wrote...

This was advertised as content for the CE from day one... that made me jump all that much quicker to order the CE!

I also have the ME2 CE, but I ordered that only a month prior, as I was debating whether it was worth it or not... this time, when I saw all that was included... which was also the extra squadmate and mission... I was sold!  I've had my ME3 CE reserved since last July!

BRAVO... You were just officially manipulated to buy the CE of ME3.

Modifié par g99, 25 février 2012 - 11:31 .

[AkiKishi]

Evilelf007 wrote...
I said 2mil only in response to the previous post... what I did say previously is that the first week sales total of ME2 globally was 2mil, and that in the U.S. alone for ME3 Pre-orders have covered most of that number (ie more than half), and that is not yet counting international pre-orders.

Add in the sales that will take place after release and this will blow away ME2 easily.

VG numbers were from memory.

Xbox 800k
PS3 170 k
PC 80k (excluding digital).

To me that does not even ballpark to 2 million US. There is an argument for 2 million worldwide at least as a ballpark figure.

Who cares if it blows ME2 away ? That was never the "plan" 

Missing Xmas is going to hurt too in the casual market.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 25 février 2012 - 11:34 .

[Evilelf007]

g99 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

This was advertised as content for the CE from day one... that made me jump all that much quicker to order the CE!

I also have the ME2 CE, but I ordered that only a month prior, as I was debating whether it was worth it or not... this time, when I saw all that was included... which was also the extra squadmate and mission... I was sold!  I've had my ME3 CE reserved since last July!

BRAVO... You were just officially manipulated to buy the CE of ME3.

Every time anyone buys anything for entertainment, they have been manipulated to pay for it.  That is what all marketing is for.

I don't NEED my Shelby GT500 either, but Ford offered it with 550hp, convertible, voice activated navigation/entertainment/phone system etc... I jumped at that too.

Just like any movie you see a trailer for and get interested, any commercial that peaks your interest in a product... int he end it is all manipulation to entice consumers to buy a product.

I gladly admit that yes... I was manipulated into wanting it.. and I am happily giving them my money for the great quality product I expect in return.

[Wugger]

y'know, bioware is pretty shameful in regards to liking its fans.

Lets compare them to CD Prokekt for a moment.

Those guys made the excellent Witcher 2, in many regards better than the Dragon Age series, with gorgeous graphics, a better story, though comparitivley lacking in a few small aspects, in my opinion the minute to minute gameplay was better.

Bioware crap out DA2 in like..half an hour, and like saps we all buy it up full price.

Witcher 2 is getting an 'enhanced edition' basically they are adding loads of new content, about 3 dlcs worth, totally for free if you already own the game, seriously, how many developers do that?

Mass effect 3 charges you ten bucks for a third of the content, if even that, and does so on launch day.

And yet, the Witcher games get awful piracy rates in comparisson to Bioware games. And every time Bioware shows how little it cares about the consumer, we get all up in arms, call boycott, then go out and buy it anyway, they get all the money, and continue screwing us over.

seems kinda weird.

[Blarty]

g99 wrote...

BRAVO... You were just officially manipulated to buy the CE of ME3.

Any time you read a review you are manipulated to subscribe to the reviewers point of view, any time you go to buy a house or car you are manipulated based on the facilities or features advertised, any time you see an advert for anything you might be remotely interested in you are manipulated, based upon your wants and desires...... As everyone keeps saying, you are a customer, a consumer - all consumers of all things are manipulated into buying things that suit their wants

[Renegade133]

i reckon this top will see at least 200 more

[g99]

Evilelf007 wrote...

g99 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

This was advertised as content for the CE from day one... that made me jump all that much quicker to order the CE!

I also have the ME2 CE, but I ordered that only a month prior, as I was debating whether it was worth it or not... this time, when I saw all that was included... which was also the extra squadmate and mission... I was sold! I've had my ME3 CE reserved since last July!

BRAVO... You were just officially manipulated to buy the CE of ME3. {smilie}

Every time anyone buys anything for entertainment, they have been manipulated to pay for it. That is what all marketing is for.

I don't NEED my Shelby GT500 either, but Ford offered it with 550hp, convertible, voice activated navigation/entertainment/phone system etc... I jumped at that too.

Just like any movie you see a trailer for and get interested, any commercial that peaks your interest in a product... int he end it is all manipulation to entice consumers to buy a product.

I gladly admit that yes... I was manipulated into wanting it.. and I am happily giving them my money for the great quality product I expect in return.

Good for you, I support anyone who is aware he was manipulated.
I was manipulated to buy Witcher 2 with all it's DLC on day one (the ONLY game I have from day one). The difference is I will play this game in April again with 3 h of new gameplay in act III of it for 0$, because CDProjectRED are a DLC free company, not like some other greedy developers out there.

[Blarty]

Wugger wrote...

y'know, bioware is pretty shameful in regards to liking its fans.

Lets compare them to CD Prokekt for a moment.

Oh yay! Yet another Witcher 2 comparison - the game that is the sequel to a game that can't decide if it's a mumorpurger or not. And yes while you may well say this about the Witcher Team now..... What happens when the demand for their games eclipses their ability and budget to give you things for free? And it's not an IF, it's a WHEN, and when they do they'll call it an expansion pack, and that will curiously satisfy your concern that you're now paying for DLC.

Modifié par Blarty, 25 février 2012 - 11:47 .

[Yuoaman]

Guys stop comparing BIoware to CDPR, while I enjoy their games as well we're discussing Bioware's DLC here.

[LivingHitokiri]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Again, 2mil isn't the final number of pre-orders, that is u.s. numbers alone. International pre-order numbers have yet to be reported.

Us pre orders on all platforms is around 950k not 2 mil in US

http://www.vgchartz....2-asuras-wrath/

Modifié par LivingHitokiri, 25 février 2012 - 11:49 .

[Wulfram]

Yuoaman wrote...

Guys stop comparing BIoware to CDPR, while I enjoy their games as well we're discussing Bioware's DLC here.

Well, this is bad even by Bioware's own poor standards.  While by reasonable standards, it's awful.