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Mass Effect 3: From Ashes


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#9076
ZX12r Ninja

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BobSmith101 wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

 I listed my reasons it's got nothing to do with the Prothean.


Yes, and like I said those are just an assumption you are making. You assume this DLC is important and you need it to get the complete experience. You assume EA is milking SE buyers out (all the while CE buyers pay 20 bucks more). Those are assumptions you are making which hold no basis in the real world.

As for your comment:


The emotive side is "It's a Prothean".


It's just you making it important, while it's not.


Nothing to do with it. It's about full disclousure. If it's missing from the game and available as day 1 DLC I want it indicated on the box so I can see the real price I'm paying for the complete game.

That's me explaining why TB had over 500,000 hits on his Youtube clip in 2 days.


1. How can it be indicated on the box when the game hasn't been released yet?
2. In the announcements it was clearly said CE would have an extra squadmate and map to play. Why does the fact it's a Prothean change anything then?
3. TB having so much hits doesn't say anything. I watched it too and disagreed. Mailed him about it, didn't get an answer.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 25 février 2012 - 01:25 .


#9077
MissOuJ

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BobSmith101 wrote...

They know full well that a transparent £10 price hike would cost them in sales, so they try to slip it in the back door.

(Im sure you can conclude the metaphor should you choose).


Would you rather buy what I pay for new releases? I pay about the equivalent of $80/£50 for almost all new SE releases, sometimes even £60/$95. And I know for a fact Australians pay even more.

Again, the game is fully functional without the DLC, ergo, it's not a swindle. If it was impossible to finish the game without the new character, the situation would be different. Or if having the Prothean in your squad would be the only possible way to get the best ending - or even any specific ending you'd not be able to get without him - you'd be right.

But that's not the case, and you're wrong.

#9078
AkiKishi

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...

1. How can it be indicated on the box when the game hasn't been released yet?
2. In the announcements it was clearly said CE would have an extra squadmate and map to play. Why does the fact it's a Prothean change anything then?
3. TB having so much hits doesn't say anything. I watched it too and disagreed. Mailed him about it, didn't get an answer.


The point is it won't say on the box Missing Prothean £10 extra and it should.
Thats going to change depending on who you ask.
It says its a popular clip.

#9079
nitefyre410

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Blarty wrote...

See the objective opinion from my point of view, is if you're that annoyed by it, most retailers have an amount of time to pick up a preorder 48hrs or so.... In the uk, you'll be able to know how important the Prothean actually is, 3 days, before you can get your hands on the game.... Take a view with more actual facts and make your own decision about it.... Are you seriously going to sit here on this thread ****ing about stuff you are not fully-informed about, and to which at this point there is only conjecture, and the musing of people who read the leak, for the next week and a half?

 

See...  I  believe its complete  BS that it was  and is Collective Edition Exclusive... Playalbe characters are  Collector Editions Exclusive ... Okay. 

So now as a consumer sence I don't agree with that notion at all I will not be buying  Collectors Edition Bioware games or Standard Edition Bioware games new... period.,  Prothean  or no Prothean.  

Because that does not still well with me... at all. The Fact the "Oh there s ome pre-order cancels" is moot.    

I wonder how well this would over it... if Square Enix did a remastered,  verison of Final Fantasy 7 and Vincent was a Collectors Edtiton Exclusive character then they say  he is 10 bucks for everyone else after the Collectors Editions  sell out.  

#9080
ZX12r Ninja

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BobSmith101 wrote...

The point is it won't say on the box Missing Prothean £10 extra and it should.


Yet again you assume this Prothean is missing from the story while you have no basis for this assumption. The game hasn't been released yet. Only thing you know is that SE won't be able to get it as a squadmate.

Thats going to change depending on who you ask.


Look up the promo material of CE and SE, CE has squadmate and extra map clearly listed as such. Only thing you found out last Wednesday is that it's a Prothean, which changed what then?

It says its a popular clip.


It's a popular subject... as can be seen from 350+ pages of "discussion".

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 25 février 2012 - 01:33 .


#9081
Naramar

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Pulling up arguments about story essential characters just makes you look dumb. The Prothean has no impact on your game but that one mission and possibly alot of 'YEAH' one liners. Much like oh.. Kasumi, Zaeed.. i herd dey wer dlc. Unlike a actual character who is in the core game, and says more then one line throughout the entire game.

#9082
AkiKishi

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MissOuJ wrote...

Would you rather buy what I pay for new releases? I pay about the equivalent of $80/£50 for almost all new SE releases, sometimes even £60/$95. And I know for a fact Australians pay even more.

Again, the game is fully functional without the DLC, ergo, it's not a swindle. If it was impossible to finish the game without the new character, the situation would be different. Or if having the Prothean in your squad would be the only possible way to get the best ending - or even any specific ending you'd not be able to get without him - you'd be right.

But that's not the case, and you're wrong.


Functional and complete are not the same thing.I don't see why anyone would not want to know what was missing from the game or being charged extra for. Unless ignorance is bliss or sometihng.

If you could see on the box

Base price £XXX
Additional Day 1 content
A. £XX
B.£XX
C £XX

You could immediately see how much the complete game cost. And how much less they were actually including in the base price.

#9083
ZX12r Ninja

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BobSmith101 wrote...

Functional and complete are not the same thing.I don't see why anyone would not want to know what was missing from the game or being charged extra for. Unless ignorance is bliss or sometihng.

If you could see on the box

Base price £XXX
Additional Day 1 content
A. £XX
B.£XX
C £XX

You could immediately see how much the complete game cost. And how much less they were actually including in the base price.


By your logic a car which hasn't been fully optioned isn't complete. A house without a pool isn't complete. A PC without an SSD or highend graphics card isn't complete. A console without all it's accesories isn't complete. A meal without desert isn't complete.

Do these also list all their options on the box? No you get a price manifesto which list the base price and all the options and you can decide which you want.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 25 février 2012 - 01:37 .


#9084
Sebby

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This day one DLC scamming is appalling. Congrats EAware you've officially put Capcom to shame.

#9085
GnusmasTHX

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Or you know...

The CE/DDE is listed as costing more, with From Ashes included, among other things, while the SE is listed as costing less, without aforementioned things included.

One might be able to put two and two together.

More over it's DLC. The price should be separate because it's separate content from the main game.

#9086
kingsims

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Prothy won't be Romancable and yes i agree Kasumi is probably the Best DLC character bioware created alongside Shale and Zaeed and should be free for everyone if released as a Day one DLC.

Who knows this could be the Best DLC Squadmate (I could see him being a legion type character emotionless yeat so full of history and knowledge)

#9087
AkiKishi

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...

By your logic a car which hasn't been fully optioned isn't complete. A house without a pool isn't complete. A PC without an SSD or highend graphics card isn't complete. A console without all it's accesories isn't complete. A meal without desert isn't complete.

Do these also list all their options on the box? No you get a price manifesto which list the base price and all the options and you can decide which you want.


When you buy a car do you get a price list with optional extras before purchase Yes you do.
But you don't when you look at a game box.

As a consumer there is no reason to not want this.

#9088
TheDragonOfWhi

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Can I just do the new guy thing and ask what is this argument is about?
 
I mean I’ve been following this topic since it only had 72 pages, and despite the spirals and circles it hasn’t really be defined.
Is it about the DLC’s availability or implementation? Questionable business practises? Or is it about content?
 
Because there seems to me a lot of people saying stuff about lines in the sand and someone even quoted Martin Niemöller, and while I admire that, the noticing of “this far an no further” I have to say, personally, your too late.
I shall explain; I am an old school gamer, and whether it’s because I just haven’t moved on with the times or that I only came into the 7th Gen consoles till last September (having given up computer games while trying to do University)  I am a firm believer in that you get the game you pay for. Developers shouldn’t hold anything back and that the finished game on the shelves is just that: FINISHED.
Cue September 2011. I plug in my new fancy PS3 for the first time and start to want to play some games, and to my surprise and horror there was this thing called DLC.
DLC being extra’s you paid, sometimes lot, for what should as I saw it be in expiation pack, a disk on it’s self if not included in the original realises of the game it’s self. I was shocked and appalled I wanted to go on the internet and complain, I searched and searched for forums to vent on and what did I find? Nothing, because gamers have cheerfully accepted this. DLC is now just the done thing, and if you are fool to believe that DLC is never planed during the initial game development stage you are a fool. Any writer worth their salt thinks of the add ons and extra’s while working on the main body, it’s what we writers do. And the one thing you can accuse BioWare of having is damn good writers. So what if the DLC was thought up and started on while the main game was still being finished. It doesn’t change the fact that is an extra, the sprinkles on the donut as it were.
So if this is making a stand ageist DLC it is 5 to 6 years too late. This is the world you let them build, now deal with it.  But that’s an argument for another day.


But is this is about content? Someone about 100 odd pages asked that if this said character was Vaga and not some Fluff piece would people still care? And the general consensus was no, they wouldn’t. They don’t care about some Human character they want a dead space sheep, who’s not quite dead… yet.
Because lets not hide behind false importance that is what this DLC is. It’s Fluffy and Flossy. Flossy is the mission and all the extra wonderful XP and Fluffy (the Prothean) who walks and talks.
I will tell you I am excited about Fluffy for one reason; I am hoping he is implemented like the Phantom is in the Multiplayer. One thing ME lacks is a character that has any decent melee attack, and since ME3 has more of a role for melee I hope that Fluffy will be filling that role, but if he is another sniper or shotgun guy, I’ll be disappointed. I have plenty of them already. SO other than that, he’s not all that important.
‘But what about the Lore be brings’ I hear people ask;
What lore? The story of the Protheans was done and over by the end of ME1, we found out all there was to know about them, they lost. They died. And in ME2 it got worst, they didn’t just die, they got turned into Space Bees collecting Human nectar for their hive at the centre of the galaxy, and then we blew them up.
So unless this DLC gives a super advanced weapon that turns Reapers to Stone just by looking at them or a Secret Space Fleet of Super Advanced Ships for Humans to use ageist the Reapers I don’t see him adding anything.
I just want a melee sheep.
 
Is this about Questionable business practises?
I don’t see how I looked at both CE & SE before making an informed decision on what to spend my money on, if you did not then that’s not my fault, EA’s fault, BioWare’s Fault, or the retailers. All the information was there for you to see and the lack of information also. If you saw the CE for its greater price came with a list of extra things, and then the SE for its lesser price didn’t come with that list. It doesn’t take a child to realise that the SE doesn’t come with those things. If you haven’t grasped that concept yet, more fool you.
So Business practise? Not questionable. You just might not like it, but that’s the world we live in.
 
This squabble over Fluffy has been blown out of portion because of one man with a microphone and a YouTube account. At best it should be a minor annoyance for those who for whatever their reason didn’t buy the CE, but at lest BioWare has given you the option of maybe thinking for yourselves. You don’t need Fluffy, but if you want him he’s there. Fluffy wasn’t free to make, he wasn’t free to voice, he wasn’t free to market (not that we’ve seen any of that right now) and he’s not free to implement. I and a lot of others made the decision to pay for him, his mission his wonderful, wonderful XP and all the extra fluff that comes with the little space sheep. If you want him you should do the same.
If you want to complain about all DLC and I do mean ALL DLC however, I am with you. I will bring all I am to bare on that fight, but if you’re angry over the content of just the one ‘extra’ then bog off.
 
Sorry for the long wall of text
I'll just go back to lurking now thanks.

#9089
MissOuJ

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BobSmith101 wrote...

Functional and complete are not the same thing.I don't see why anyone would not want to know what was missing from the game or being charged extra for. Unless ignorance is bliss or sometihng.

If you could see on the box

Base price £XXX
Additional Day 1 content
A. £XX
B.£XX
C £XX

You could immediately see how much the complete game cost. And how much less they were actually including in the base price.


If you went to the cinema to see the LotR theatrical versions (like me) were you scammed because Extended Editions were released later? Was your "LotR experience" incomplete because you didn't get to see the scene where Frodo and Sam see the Wood elves in Shire's woods?

No.


Was my DAO experience full without the Soldier's Peak/Shale/Ostagar/Witchhunt DLC's? Yes it was. If anything, I (or the used game retailer I bought it from) scammed BioWare because I bought my copy of DAO used: BioWare/EA didn't see a cent of the money I paid for that game.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 février 2012 - 01:45 .


#9090
Wulfram

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TheDragonOfWhi wrote...

This squabble over Fluffy has been blown out of portion because of one man with a microphone and a YouTube account.


It wouldn't have got big if there weren't a lot of people unhappy about this.  The video just gave the spark to get them to express this

(Personally, I wouldn't find this acceptable for any squad member.  The squad members are what I play these games for, they're the most imporant content in the game for me.  Particularly when you've got a fairly small squad, that might be smaller depending on who you import.)

#9091
GnusmasTHX

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TheDragonOfWhi wrote...

Sorry for the long wall of text
I'll just go back to lurking now thanks.


People don't want to pay the $10.00 for From Ashes that CE buyers have already paid for.

Period. That's it.

#9092
Mr. Gogeta34

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If Bioware/EA made a bad decision... you'll see it manifest in their next project's sales. ME3's too far into the trilogy to really be hurt at this point.

But a new Mass Effect title or a new IP will be where we find out just how badly they've been affected by this backlash toward this Day 1 DLC...

With the release of ME3, they'll be completely out of leverage... and it's back to only the quality of the game's content.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 25 février 2012 - 01:47 .


#9093
ZX12r Ninja

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BobSmith101 wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

By your logic a car which hasn't been fully optioned isn't complete. A house without a pool isn't complete. A PC without an SSD or highend graphics card isn't complete. A console without all it's accesories isn't complete. A meal without desert isn't complete.

Do these also list all their options on the box? No you get a price manifesto which list the base price and all the options and you can decide which you want.


When you buy a car do you get a price list with optional extras before purchase Yes you do.
But you don't when you look at a game box.

As a consumer there is no reason to not want this.


It's clear you have never bought a new car.

You have a base car which is advertised as costing so much.

http://www.volkswage...e_D0Lnl,00.html
http://www.bmw.nl/nl...troduction.html

And then you get an option manifesto which lists all the extra factory fitted options.

http://www.volkswage...e_D0Lnl,00.html
http://www.bmw.nl/nl...nfigurator.html

They're seperate things. Just because a dealer wants to sell you the options and offers them to you on sale doesn't mean they are one and the same and should be listed together.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 25 février 2012 - 01:50 .


#9094
GnusmasTHX

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If Bioware/EA made a bad decision... you'll see it manifest in their next project's sales. ME3's too far into the trilogy to really be hurt at this point.

But a new Mass Effect title or a new IP will be where we find out just how badly they've been affected by this backlash toward this Day 1 DLC...

With the release of ME3, they'll be completely out of leverage... and it's back to only the quality of the game's content.


CC/Generals has somewhat of a following.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 25 février 2012 - 01:48 .


#9095
Mr. Gogeta34

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GnusmasTHX wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If Bioware/EA made a bad decision... you'll see it manifest in their next project's sales. ME3's too far into the trilogy to really be hurt at this point.

But a new Mass Effect title or a new IP will be where we find out just how badly they've been affected by this backlash toward this Day 1 DLC...

With the release of ME3, they'll be completely out of leverage... and it's back to only the quality of the game's content.


CC/Generals has somewhat of a following.


I was primarily referring to the next (as of yet) unnanounced titles from Bioware... but CC/Generals would still need to prove itself.  Bioware making a game like that isn't an "oh of course!" moment... so I'm sure everyone will be waiting to see what they actually do with the franchise.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 25 février 2012 - 01:52 .


#9096
AkiKishi

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...

When you buy a car do you get a price list with optional extras before purchase Yes you do.
But you don't when you look at a game box.

It's clear you have never bought a new car.


I've bought quite a few.

When I look at the different models a I can see what the features are. Only a car with all the features is  complete,the others may do the job of being a car but it won't be the same experience as the complete car.

It's all there in black and white what is on that model and what is not.

I want to know when I look at a game box what is missing from that complete experience.

#9097
Lufven1

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I got back here after about 100 pages and this thread is still:

1. People upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

#9098
Mr. Gogeta34

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I just want to know when it'll be available for purchase and download again on the XBL Marketplace...

#9099
ZX12r Ninja

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BobSmith101 wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

When you buy a car do you get a price list with optional extras before purchase Yes you do.
But you don't when you look at a game box.

It's clear you have never bought a new car.


I've bought quite a few.

When I look at the different models a I can see what the features are. Only a car with all the features is  complete,the others may do the job of being a car but it won't be the same experience as the complete car.

It's all there in black and white what is on that model and what is not.

I want to know when I look at a game box what is missing from that complete experience.


So what you're saying is they should list the books, the comics any future planned DLC's and all the previous games too on the box? If it wasn't that you used the pound sign as I would assume you're a dumb American and can't logically think for yourself.

#9100
AkiKishi

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MissOuJ wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Functional and complete are not the same thing.I don't see why anyone would not want to know what was missing from the game or being charged extra for. Unless ignorance is bliss or sometihng.

If you could see on the box

Base price £XXX
Additional Day 1 content
A. £XX
B.£XX
C £XX

You could immediately see how much the complete game cost. And how much less they were actually including in the base price.


If you went to the cinema to see the LotR theatrical versions (like me) were you scammed because Extended Editions were released later? Was your "LotR experience" incomplete because you didn't get to see the scene where Frodo and Sam see the Wood elves in Shire's woods?

No.


Was my DAO experience full without the Soldier's Peak/Shale/Ostagar/Witchhunt DLC's? Yes it was. If anything, I (or the used game retailer I bought it from) scammed BioWare because I bought my copy of DAO used: BioWare/EA didn't see a cent of the money I paid for that game.


Key word here is LATER 

That's just your experience though.

Reading some of these people have been quite thoroughly programmed.