13369 réponses à ce sujet

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

BaronIveagh wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

That is horrible and unethical business practise and just plain poor game design - and if that's the case with either ME3 as a whole or any of the future DLC's (From Ashes included), I'm completely with you guys.

It ws casued by a sort of perfect storm of publisher interfearence, the owners of the engine issuing demands, the license being up for renewal, and the studio's own financial troubles.  It's still se4en as one of the best WoD game ever made, but that's largly due to fans patching it to repair the damage to an otherwise brillient game.


As far as the issue with DLC, there are only a limited number of ways that a videogame compnay can legally and ethically take your money.  Sadly, EA is not known for following either the law or ethics.

They're following the law , and maybe half of the ethics.But their a company first , not your best friend.

[BaronIveagh]

obie191970 wrote...

All press is good press.  Controversy sells.

Certain types of controversy sell.  Stories about how you are ripping off your customers are not among them,

[bennyjammin79]

I swear I can faintly hear a violin when I click on this thread.

[Kevin Lozandier]

obie191970 wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Kithrus wrote...


Maybe, I can admit I'm a minority however people leaving a company's fanbase starts with one person and this can become a festering wound if something isn't done soon. Maybe this isn't enough to remove more then .5% of the fans but next time maybe they loss more when they pull a worse stunt. Then maybe those unlike yourself who feel nothing will change begin to see maybe that .5% were right.

Every bleedout starts with a drop of blood.

Remember that there is still some time before launch, and the controversy is starting to bubble up to the media, which may mean additional lost sales as it spreads out of just the 'videogame' area of journalism.

All press is good press.  Controversy sells.

To an extent. I would be amiss to point out that's a popular saying that's overused, and all to often misunderstood. Smart leaders know how to take advantage of it, while those who do not might not be leaders any longer afterwards. 

[Kithrus]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Kithrus wrote...


Maybe, I can admit I'm a minority however people leaving a company's fanbase starts with one person and this can become a festering wound if something isn't done soon. Maybe this isn't enough to remove more then .5% of the fans but next time maybe they loss more when they pull a worse stunt. Then maybe those unlike yourself who feel nothing will change begin to see maybe that .5% were right.

Every bleedout starts with a drop of blood.

Remember that there is still some time before launch, and the controversy is starting to bubble up to the media, which may mean additional lost sales as it spreads out of just the 'videogame' area of journalism.

I won't lie, I'm both gleeful if something happens but sad at the same time. I been buying bioware games for a long time and some of my best gaming memories I can link to them.

I don't WANT Bioware to suffer but to keep the company I'm so fond of something I can stay fond of it has to be done.

I just hope its not too late.

I want to play mass effect 3.

I want to buy more bioware swage.

I want to renew my SW:TOR account.

I love Bioware, I used to hold them up so high and I want to keep doing that.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

BaronIveagh wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

All press is good press.  Controversy sells.

Certain types of controversy sell.  Stories about how you are ripping off your customers are not among them,

Sometimes , but in this case alot of people have been getting interested in the game(most don't care about the prothean).

[obie191970]

BaronIveagh wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

All press is good press.  Controversy sells.

Certain types of controversy sell.  Stories about how you are ripping off your customers are not among them,

Ripping off?  Hardly.  Taking advantage of?  Certainly.

[BaronIveagh]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

They're following the law , and maybe half of the ethics.But their a company first , not your best friend.

That has yet to be determined.  The trial beings in May.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Kithrus wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Kithrus wrote...


Maybe, I can admit I'm a minority however people leaving a company's fanbase starts with one person and this can become a festering wound if something isn't done soon. Maybe this isn't enough to remove more then .5% of the fans but next time maybe they loss more when they pull a worse stunt. Then maybe those unlike yourself who feel nothing will change begin to see maybe that .5% were right.

Every bleedout starts with a drop of blood.

Remember that there is still some time before launch, and the controversy is starting to bubble up to the media, which may mean additional lost sales as it spreads out of just the 'videogame' area of journalism.

I won't lie, I'm both gleeful if something happens but sad at the same time. I been buying bioware games for a long time and some of my best gaming memories I can link to them.

I don't WANT Bioware to suffer but to keep the company I'm so fond of something I can stay fond of it has to be done.

I just hope its not too late.

I want to play mass effect 3.

I want to buy more bioware swage.

I want to renew my SW:TOR account.

I love Bioware, I used to hold them up so high and I want to keep doing that.

No offense, but again, based on the logic and context of this DLC that has more reasonable business decisions surrounding it than stupid. Consumers of other mediums aren't--as well as decision makers of other mediums--would say it is brilliant or not a big deal.

Again:The Prothean DLC is obviously something that would make sense as a Collector's Item and why it's in the CE. It could have been in the CE only for that matter. Their job is to make every edition of the game be worth it. A LARGE amount of gamers are not happy with many Collector Editions of gaming because they don't follow the desireability and quality of Collector Editions of other mediums.

I've said it a thousand times: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions?

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 25 février 2012 - 06:18 .

[Travie]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

All press is good press.  Controversy sells.

Certain types of controversy sell.  Stories about how you are ripping off your customers are not among them,

Sometimes , but in this case alot of people have been getting interested in the game(most don't care about the prothean).

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, what!?

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Kithrus wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Kithrus wrote...


Maybe, I can admit I'm a minority however people leaving a company's fanbase starts with one person and this can become a festering wound if something isn't done soon. Maybe this isn't enough to remove more then .5% of the fans but next time maybe they loss more when they pull a worse stunt. Then maybe those unlike yourself who feel nothing will change begin to see maybe that .5% were right.

Every bleedout starts with a drop of blood.

Remember that there is still some time before launch, and the controversy is starting to bubble up to the media, which may mean additional lost sales as it spreads out of just the 'videogame' area of journalism.

I won't lie, I'm both gleeful if something happens but sad at the same time. I been buying bioware games for a long time and some of my best gaming memories I can link to them.

I don't WANT Bioware to suffer but to keep the company I'm so fond of something I can stay fond of it has to be done.

I just hope its not too late.

I want to play mass effect 3.

I want to buy more bioware swage.

I want to renew my SW:TOR account.

I love Bioware, I used to hold them up so high and I want to keep doing that.

Felt the same way about Capcom , up until the whole DmC thing.Now I'll try the demo , but I plan on buying the game used because I want to support the return of the previous Dante.

[BaronIveagh]

obie191970 wrote...

Ripping off?  Hardly.  Taking advantage of?  Certainly.

You're forgetting sensationalist  journalism 101.  Make it sound bad, make the company evil, show the bleeding victims on the screen.

[Kithrus]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Kithrus wrote...


Maybe, I can admit I'm a minority however people leaving a company's fanbase starts with one person and this can become a festering wound if something isn't done soon. Maybe this isn't enough to remove more then .5% of the fans but next time maybe they loss more when they pull a worse stunt. Then maybe those unlike yourself who feel nothing will change begin to see maybe that .5% were right.

Every bleedout starts with a drop of blood.

Remember that there is still some time before launch, and the controversy is starting to bubble up to the media, which may mean additional lost sales as it spreads out of just the 'videogame' area of journalism.

I won't lie, I'm both gleeful if something happens but sad at the same time. I been buying bioware games for a long time and some of my best gaming memories I can link to them.

I don't WANT Bioware to suffer but to keep the company I'm so fond of something I can stay fond of it has to be done.

I just hope its not too late.

I want to play mass effect 3.

I want to buy more bioware swage.

I want to renew my SW:TOR account.

I love Bioware, I used to hold them up so high and I want to keep doing that.

No offense, but again, based on the logic and context of this DLC that has more reasonable business decisions surrounding it than stupid. Consumers of other mediums aren't--as well as decision makers of other mediums--would say it is brilliant.

And evil/heartless plan came be brilliant, they are not mutually exclusive.

This is about treatment of fun/customers we are talking about. Their savvy at sales is not in question here.

Modifié par Kithrus, 25 février 2012 - 06:12 .

[MissOuJ]

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

They're following the law , and maybe half of the ethics.But their a company first , not your best friend.

That has yet to be determined.  The trial beings in May.

I'm afraid I'm out of the loop on this one. What trial?

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

They're following the law , and maybe half of the ethics.But their a company first , not your best friend.

That has yet to be determined.  The trial beings in May.

If they were on trial the case against them would be dismissed for lack of evidence.

[ArkkAngel007]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...
Back, and I see now we're still arguing if he's important or not. This has been answered again and again. His role is nothing extravagant or even meaningful to ME3. He doesn't affect anything in the main game, nor adds any lore that you can't find elsewhere in the game. Javik just provides a more...let's say personal take on that lore...

 
Again, who are you to say what is and what isn't imnportant content?  We do not know what his role is or how important it is.  What many ppl are questioning ( and rightfully so) is how do you make a character so involved w/ the lore and main plot as meaningless as zaeed/katsumi and if it were as meaningless wouldn't that be a diservice the history of said species?

ArkkAngel007 wrote... 
Details that I can share: You get a message through Alliance Command to go to Eden Prime. You arrive there and meet Javik eventually. Javik explains his purpose, on why he was put in stasis and why he was on that particular planet. His way of explaining is not only through speech, but through the same method the beacon and Liara can communicate. He will join your squad and be available for the rest of the game. He will have squad banter with the rest of your squad, though the banter with Liara is the most interesting and informative, as reveals some mysteries of the Asari race. 

 
And you don't deem that as  important to the overall story?  Zaeed and Katsumi were their own individual stories not connected to the history of the galaxy and therefore were not important to the overall plot.  You seem to imply that it is.

ArkkAngel007 wrote... 
Get over the fact that he isn't. You can't change the writing of the game. Arguing whether or not it was the right choice that BioWare made is a distraction of the actual problem, which is the fact that the Prothean is a core interest to all fans of the series and is being used to make a quick buck at launch when we are already paying $60+ that day.

And I'll make this clear about TB. His concerns are valid, but believing it's cut content and implying to his viewers to just straight up boycott the whole game are wrong and extreme, respectively. You have to understand that just because some guy has a popular YouTube page and has a strong opinion doesn't mean he's some type of official or informed figure. His was a quick, emotional response using the information he had at the time.

  
The fans are only being used if they are being tricked into buying  this dlc b/c they believe it is lore essential when it is not.  If it is lore essential then we are being screwed by being charged extra for serious content not in the orginal realese, but is releasable on day one.  If it is as meanless as zaeed/katsumi we are again being played by the fact it's a prothean and being made to think it is important.  What happened to being able to be a well informed consumer?

ArkkAngel007 wrote...  
DAII is also irrelevant. Different team, different development environment, etc; and has little to nothing to do with what we are discussing. The only thing that may be relevant is the Sebastion DLC, but then again it isn't as well.

Hope that clears a few points up. Now back to kicking this thing in the teeth.

DA is very relevant from a marketing/production/dlc stand point. Both games are developed by the same company and marketed by the same company.  Seeing similar tactics fail in one senario are and yet seeing those same tactics repeated again begs the question...why are these things being done and how are bioware/ea being allowed to get away with it?

Just stop.  You twisted everything I said out of context.  I'm not the one saying he or the Protheans aren't important to the story.  The actual writing in the script in the TLK files indicates it as such.  I wish that it was a different case, just like every other fan of this game would, but I can't change how BioWare wrote the game, so it's a wasted effort trying to.

The development of DAII is not the same as the development of ME3; anyone who has followed both would know that.  The only thing similar is the DLC issue with the CE and made available at a price on the same day as launch.

TB hasn't accessed the TLK files at all.  It's apparent that he doesn't have more knowledge than the majority of fans.  I'm against the core reasoning of him being upset and why he made the video, but I will correct incorrect information.

And if you've read my posts, you'd also know that I feel this is taking advantage of the fans too.  So really, I'm trying to understand the real issue you had with my post in the first place.

[MissOuJ]

Travie wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Sometimes , but in this case alot of people have been getting interested in the game(most don't care about the prothean).

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, what!?

Most players who are just about to get in on the franchise don't. BioWare has been quite clear they've been trying to
widen their customer base with ME3

[nitefyre410]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

*snip*

The major issue is that BioWare/EA are using something that is important to the core of fan's interest in the series to make a quick buck on the same day the same fans are paying what many would consider a large amount already for the full game that they, up until 2 weeks for launch, felt that was all that they would have to pay for in that time period on that entertainment.

That was the consensus we had 40 page or so back.  I know that this has been moving fast and I can't expect everyone to check all 360-some-odd pages to check on it.  Yet it is still frustrating that every 50 pages or so we end up repeating the whole process again.

 

Okay. I was going to ask you any what was the clear issue... I'll fall in with  this stance...  The whole  Collectors Edition exclusive deal bugs me.. does not mattter if it  was  a Prothean or  a  Vorcha but thats a detail with in the whole matter that can be ironed out. The bigger issues is  just as you discribed it and absolutely needs to be addressed.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

nitefyre410 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

*snip*

The major issue is that BioWare/EA are using something that is important to the core of fan's interest in the series to make a quick buck on the same day the same fans are paying what many would consider a large amount already for the full game that they, up until 2 weeks for launch, felt that was all that they would have to pay for in that time period on that entertainment.

That was the consensus we had 40 page or so back.  I know that this has been moving fast and I can't expect everyone to check all 360-some-odd pages to check on it.  Yet it is still frustrating that every 50 pages or so we end up repeating the whole process again.

 

Okay. I was going to ask you any what was the clear issue... I'll fall in with  this stance...  The whole  Collectors Edition exclusive deal bugs me.. does not mattter if it  was  a Prothean or  a  Vorcha but thats a detail with in the whole matter that can be ironed out. The bigger issues is  just as you discribed it and absolutely needs to be addressed.

They could have waited to tell everyone on launch day after everyone had been charged/paid for the game.

[BaronIveagh]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

If they were on trial the case against them would be dismissed for lack of evidence.

Actually, and humourly enough, they tried to get the case dismissed on those grounds.  California Superior Court Judge Elihu Berle ruled out EA’s claim to dismiss Activision’s $400-million contract-interference claims. The judge in Los Angeles admitted that Activision had provided sufficient evidence against EA in the aforesaid suit. Thus, the judge ordered the case to move to trial.

MissOuJ wrote...
I'm afraid I'm out of the loop on this one. What trial?

This is growing out of the Infinity Ward-Activision-EA clusterfrag.  It just goes to show that bribing devs to sabotage a rivals games is never a good ideea.  Or so Activision is claiming.  Among other things.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 25 février 2012 - 06:24 .

[Kevin Lozandier]

Kithrus wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Kithrus wrote...


Maybe, I can admit I'm a minority however people leaving a company's fanbase starts with one person and this can become a festering wound if something isn't done soon. Maybe this isn't enough to remove more then .5% of the fans but next time maybe they loss more when they pull a worse stunt. Then maybe those unlike yourself who feel nothing will change begin to see maybe that .5% were right.

Every bleedout starts with a drop of blood.

Remember that there is still some time before launch, and the controversy is starting to bubble up to the media, which may mean additional lost sales as it spreads out of just the 'videogame' area of journalism.

I won't lie, I'm both gleeful if something happens but sad at the same time. I been buying bioware games for a long time and some of my best gaming memories I can link to them.

I don't WANT Bioware to suffer but to keep the company I'm so fond of something I can stay fond of it has to be done.

I just hope its not too late.

I want to play mass effect 3.

I want to buy more bioware swage.

I want to renew my SW:TOR account.

I love Bioware, I used to hold them up so high and I want to keep doing that.

No offense, but again, based on the logic and context of this DLC that has more reasonable business decisions surrounding it than stupid. Consumers of other mediums aren't--as well as decision makers of other mediums--would say it is brilliant.

And evil/heartless plan came be brilliant, they are not mutually exclusive.

This is about treatment of fun/customers we are talking about. Their savvy at sales is not in question here.

You skipped a large part of my reply here, maybe a bug with the forum. That said, I personally think that these things no one has yet properally destroyed in fact: What Collector's Edition has been as well done as this one the past few months? Which Collector's Edition has had great fan-service in-game content as this one. Which Collector's Edition that makes you feel more inclined to buy it than the Standard Edition, or made you regret not pre-ordering it than this one?


How is this DLC not  of more value than other Bioware DLC? Heck, it's of more value than pretty much all the ME2 DLC combined as far as price (Remember, it's not only the Prothean). Which has been as awesome? Is it not already better than all the DLC characters of the ME2? 

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 25 février 2012 - 06:21 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

If they were on trial the case against them would be dismissed for lack of evidence.

Actually, and humourly enough, they tried to get the case dismissed on those grounds.  California Superior Court Judge Elihu Berle ruled out EA’s claim to dismiss Activision’s $400-million contract-interference claims. The judge in Los Angeles admitted that Activision had provided sufficient evidence against EA in the aforesaid suit. Thus, the judge ordered the case to move to trial.

Maybe on that issue , but this issue is baseless with zero evidence unless someone from the company admits they screwed fans.

[ArkkAngel007]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

The major issue is that BioWare/EA are using something that is important to the core of fan's interest in the series to make a quick buck on the same day the same fans are paying what many would consider a large amount already for the full game that they, up until 2 weeks for launch, felt that was all that they would have to pay for in that time period on that entertainment.

That was the consensus we had 40 page or so back.  I know that this has been moving fast and I can't expect everyone to check all 360-some-odd pages to check on it.  Yet it is still frustrating that every 50 pages or so we end up repeating the whole process again.

Ok, that's close enoughto my position, I can get behind that.  AS I said before, if the DLC was anything BUT this, I'd have no problem with it.

Are you kidding me?

You're essentialy saying DLC can't be awesome. You're saying that final trilogy games can't have additional content not core to the game but would make a long-time fan warm inside knowing most of the lore that not everyone would be able to appreciate because the later versions of the game were introduced late to other consoles.

You're saying Collector Editions should never have content like back in the day that made them very valuable and worth a lot to long-time fans who invest in them and would make it highly desired by long-time fans that might like it to the point that they feel like they love for the universe would not be complete without them. Something that THEY made up for themselves....

That's not what I, or even most of us who have been following this closely and heavily involved, are saying.

This content will be really cool, and it will surprise a lot of people in what they get to experience.  It will be cool to have a Prothean squadmate (who may or may not be a Vanguard, can't tell since that would be in the TLK files of the DLC, not the game) and go back to Eden Prime...even way, way back to Eden Prime.

I'm also not against the CE having this content, a CE purchaser myself.

What I'm annoyed (not necessarily angered, this is just a game after all) with is that they wait until now to make this announcement to the SE purchasers who now feel compelled to shell out another $10 in addition to the $60+ they planned on.  There hasn't been a reason given on why they have to pay that amount on the same day when many made the decision because they couldn't afford the CE in the first place.

It just feels to me, as well as others, as not a fan-service that we have been told, but using that fan-service to take advantage of those fans.

If that can be cleared up and a specific message on why SE owners have to pay that amount on launch, then I will rest my case.

[nightcobra]

MissOuJ wrote...

Travie wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Sometimes , but in this case alot of people have been getting interested in the game(most don't care about the prothean).

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, what!?

Most players who are just about to get in on the franchise don't. BioWare has been quite clear they've been trying to
widen their customer base with ME3

just a part, most likely not most

like the ps3 fanbase, we didn't go blind. quite a lot of us searched out the previous game to see what it was all about and get as us much information as possible including videoclips of key moments or even full playthroughs so as to be prepared for the next game as anyone should if their first game in the series is a sequel.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 25 février 2012 - 06:22 .

[MissOuJ]

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

If they were on trial the case against them would be dismissed for lack of evidence.

Actually, and humourly enough, they tried to get the case dismissed on those grounds.  California Superior Court Judge Elihu Berle ruled out EA’s claim to dismiss Activision’s $400-million contract-interference claims. The judge in Los Angeles admitted that Activision had provided sufficient evidence against EA in the aforesaid suit. Thus, the judge ordered the case to move to trial.

Ahh, this the West amd Zabella case?

EDIT nevermind, just saw the edit...

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 février 2012 - 06:27 .