13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Kithrus]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

He's not important it's what I'm still not getting because everyone else who's mad says otherwise.

Ok, let's start at the top: the Protheans know more about the mass relays and reaper tech then any of the living species. 

Those of you following various plot leaks might  realize just how big that is.  You know, if we use logic.

Him having no role is sort of like that part at the original ending of Fallout 3 where the robot companion who was immune to radiation would not go into the radiation filled chamber, and insisted you had to do it as it was your destiny to die heroicly.

But we still don't know this guy role , I don't he going to be revealing exclusive information that Shepard won't have known already.

the people who have the game early have already leaked the plot and asking a friend to read it for me shows that he is very central to the plot and gives you EXTRA diologe options an important codex filled mission and Other things as a squad mates diolgue tree allows.

When you don't have the DLC he sort of takes an advisary role on what your next move is popping in and out to give advice kinda like the illusive man/council members from the first two games.

Except a bit more involved.

Modifié par Kithrus, 25 février 2012 - 06:52 .

[rainasa]

obie191970 wrote...

Is it important to the ME3 story?  No, the Protheans have been irreleveant to the story since talking with Sovereign and Vigil.  But, it is important to people who are fans of the story and to the lore of ME merely for the experience and interaction - Even if you can find out the information through other avenues.  I'm on your side of the table over this whole thing, but I still think it was a crappy move by Bioware.

im pretty sure no one is denying that Bioware could have handled this situation better, but that is no excuse for saying things like "he was cut out of the game, we should get him for free", and "how dare they add somthing like this as DLC, my game is no longer complete! I demand tribute!"

[ArkkAngel007]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...
I've explained exactly why he isn't important 

Yes, I know, he's not important becasue he's written that way.  See my Fallout 3 comparison for why that makes no bleeding sense.

No you don't because no has the game yet.

A few of us accessed the TLK files and have the scripts though from said files.  Everything in the final script in the files has lined up with everything we've been shown in the game from when we first saw the game to the Mars footage from yesterday.

[Kevin Lozandier]

O3Hundred wrote...

Just found out about this, and this is really disappointing. Not having this Prothean squadmate is like chopping a limb off a human body. You are taking a very important part of the game, and making people spend even more money on something that should already be in the game. This trilogy is about the Protheans, and the Reapers. Can't see you logic BioWare.

No. The Trilogy is about the Reapers, not the Protheans. You have it twisted and you're making who's important and who's not in something you don't own or truly fully understand as a creative universe that you didn't make.

You're interested in the universe to play and explore more of it though. You're in love in the universe to think about buying something that is deemed optional about the universe by the creators though it seems.

There's a huge difference there....

[nitefyre410]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...



That and the clarity behind it being DLC.  That is what the majority, including TB, continue to strongly oppose it on the basis they believe it's going to be an important piece of content that will affect their enjoyment of the game, that it was cut during primary production, is a part of the retail game on disc and is just needing an unlock code, and that they are not getting the intended ME3 experience.  It doesn't matter if they are wrong with those assumptions, because there hasn't been much said addressing those concerns.  And at this point, the fans feel slighted to the point that they won't believe anything coming from BioWare on the issue, as was evident when Casey and Mike both spoke on the issue.

  

The Bold because that is something that alot of  people are missing.   

[nightcobra]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

If you want to be so pessimistic, any sequel, merchandise, and so forth are nickel and diming. Anything you buy that's not a essential human need is nickel and diming that is well-crafted and well-thought out. From Facebook to Movies, it's something that occurs throughout our lives that we do to others to be well-off in our respective societies. 

I think let's not be naive here. 

i wouldn't consider any content developed weeks/months post-launch to be nickel and diming.
however, any in-game content developed before and released at launch aside from cosmetic/weapons/armor items for an extra cost is to me nickel and diming. 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 25 février 2012 - 06:53 .

[obie191970]

BaronIveagh wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Is it important to the ME3 story?  No, the Protheans have been irreleveant to the story since talking with Sovereign and Vigil.  But, it is important to people who are fans of the story and to the lore of ME merely for the experience and interaction - Even if you can find out the information through other avenues.  I'm on your side of the table over this whole thing, but I still think it was a crappy move by Bioware.

I grant that it might be specifically uninmportatn to Shepards story (judging by leaks though I'm starting to suspect that there will be serious logic failures at some point though) but to the galaxy at large this is an earthshaking event nearly rivaling the reaper invasion.

Understood, but we wouldn't see the ramifications of that unless we travel to Kahje to recuit Blasto.

[fropas]

BaronIveagh wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Is it important to the ME3 story?  No, the Protheans have been irreleveant to the story since talking with Sovereign and Vigil.  But, it is important to people who are fans of the story and to the lore of ME merely for the experience and interaction - Even if you can find out the information through other avenues.  I'm on your side of the table over this whole thing, but I still think it was a crappy move by Bioware.

I grant that it might be specifically uninmportatn to Shepards story (judging by leaks though I'm starting to suspect that there will be serious logic failures at some point though) but to the galaxy at large this is an earthshaking event nearly rivaling the reaper invasion.

Umm, I think DJBear read the leaked script and confirmed that Javik IS in ME3 regardless if you buy DLC--you just won't be able to use him

[rainasa]

Kithrus wrote...

the people who have the game early have already leaked the plot and asking a friend to read it for me shows that he is very central to the plot and gives you EXTRA diologe options an important codex filled mission and Other things as a squad mades diolgue tree allows.

When you don't have the DLC he sort of takes an advisary role on what your next move is popping in and out to give advice kinda like the illusive man/council members from the first two games.

Except a bit more involved.

uhhh, what version is that from? it sounds like this first leaked script, but a very badly misnformed version of it.
in the second leaked script, javick was removed completey from the game, and the developers have said that all the infomation he provides is avalabile elsewhere in the game from diffrent sources.

Modifié par rainasa, 25 février 2012 - 06:54 .

[nitefyre410]

fropas wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Is it important to the ME3 story?  No, the Protheans have been irreleveant to the story since talking with Sovereign and Vigil.  But, it is important to people who are fans of the story and to the lore of ME merely for the experience and interaction - Even if you can find out the information through other avenues.  I'm on your side of the table over this whole thing, but I still think it was a crappy move by Bioware.

I grant that it might be specifically uninmportatn to Shepards story (judging by leaks though I'm starting to suspect that there will be serious logic failures at some point though) but to the galaxy at large this is an earthshaking event nearly rivaling the reaper invasion.

Umm, I think DJBear read the leaked script and confirmed that Javik IS in ME3 regardless if you buy DLC--you just won't be able to use him

 

that does not make it any better it makes it worst...

So lets hope that is not true.

[Kithrus]

rainasa wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

the people who have the game early have already leaked the plot and asking a friend to read it for me shows that he is very central to the plot and gives you EXTRA diologe options an important codex filled mission and Other things as a squad mades diolgue tree allows.

When you don't have the DLC he sort of takes an advisary role on what your next move is popping in and out to give advice kinda like the illusive man/council members from the first two games.

Except a bit more involved.

uhhh, what version is that from? it sounds like this first leaked script, but a very badly and misnformed version of it.
in the second leaked script, javick was removed completey from the game, and the developers have said that all the infomation he provides is avalabile elsewhere in the game from diffrent sources.

I can only give you second had generlised information. If you want to know for sure theres already youtube spoilers up. Go watch them

Modifié par Kithrus, 25 février 2012 - 06:56 .

[ArkkAngel007]

Kithrus wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

He's not important it's what I'm still not getting because everyone else who's mad says otherwise.

Ok, let's start at the top: the Protheans know more about the mass relays and reaper tech then any of the living species. 

Those of you following various plot leaks might  realize just how big that is.  You know, if we use logic.

Him having no role is sort of like that part at the original ending of Fallout 3 where the robot companion who was immune to radiation would not go into the radiation filled chamber, and insisted you had to do it as it was your destiny to die heroicly.

But we still don't know this guy role , I don't he going to be revealing exclusive information that Shepard won't have known already.

the people who have the game early have already leaked the plot and asking a friend to read it for me shows that he is very central to the plot and gives you EXTRA diologe options an important codex filled mission and Other things as a squad mades diolgue tree allows.

When you don't have the DLC he sort of takes an advisary role on what your next move is popping in and out to give advice kinda like the illusive man/council members from the first two games.

Except a bit more involved.

No.  That's the original script that was trashed in pre-production.  That information was taken from the TLK files back when the beta of the demo was leaked late last year, and is present on the current TLK files in the demo.

The one source I know for sure that has a game and spoken on it has confirmed that the final script in the TLK files is the same that is in the game.  Which has nothing on Javik except the what was used for VO work, quite a bit you can hear on YouTube now I believe.

So I don't know where your friend got his information, but it is incorrect.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 25 février 2012 - 06:57 .

[Kevin Lozandier]

Kithrus wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

<snip>

But this isn't the past , things change over time.The time of free dlc is coming to an end , but it doesn't mean you can't play the game from begining to end without Prothean.

first off, im not asking for 'free' DLC.  im asking everyone, regardless of what version of the game they bought, get the same story experience at launch.  even today, thats how most companies work. more importantly though, its how ME1 and ME 2 worked.  again, i dont care about multiplayer.. there are plenty of games that provide that as a feature, and still give everyone the same story experience.

they want to charge for dlc after release.  awesome.  as long as the content looks like something im interested, ill be happy to support it.

the fact is, EA and bioware are only getting away with this because we allow them to.  if we want it to stop, all we have to do is not buy their product and vote with our wallets.

and thats what really ticks me off about this whole thing .. for ME1 and ME2, this wasnt an issue.  EVERYONE got access to the same story driven content on day of release.  now all of a sudden, at the end of the trilogy they pull this stunt because they know that:

1.  most fans could care less and will buy the game anyway.
2.  people will want to see the end of the story because of the time invested in the previous two games (like myself)

its really bad business, and honestly its starting to make me lose any respect i once had for bioware. which is hard for me to say.  im sure the devs and the rest of the staff are all great people.  but what they are doing is wrong.  period.

What exactly is EA getting away with ? Either you choose to buy day 1 dlc or you don't , nobody's forcing anyone to buy it.

Its less the buying more what this mind set that created represents. Thats its unjust to be creating content before the launch of the game to make an extra buck. The only time this can be reasonable allowed is if the content is more flavor likes skins, pets, weapons. Anything that adds or could be seen as important to the main plot has no excuse to not be paid in the price of the game as is.

The Flip side is if this DLC is 'fluff' and doesn't truely add anything how can they justify a price tag of 10 dollars?

That's super opinionated. Who made that standard? Fans did? Who ultimately has the ultimate say on price? Fans. $10 too much? Don't buy it. Supply and Demand 101.

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 25 février 2012 - 07:01 .

[obie191970]

rainasa wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Is it important to the ME3 story?  No, the Protheans have been irreleveant to the story since talking with Sovereign and Vigil.  But, it is important to people who are fans of the story and to the lore of ME merely for the experience and interaction - Even if you can find out the information through other avenues.  I'm on your side of the table over this whole thing, but I still think it was a crappy move by Bioware.

im pretty sure no one is denying that Bioware could have handled this situation better, but that is no excuse for saying things like "he was cut out of the game, we should get him for free", and "how dare they add somthing like this as DLC, my game is no longer complete! I demand tribute!"

I agree with you.  Bioware made a poor decision when it comes to fan service and have put themselves is a crappy position.  They can't change it now or those of us who bought the CE for this content will be in an uproar.  It's a lose-lose situation.

[DaVeO52]

Hmm. If the DLC was as long as say Mark of the Assassin for DA2 I'd be okay with $10. If not then $10 is too much. My opinion.

[BaronIveagh]

Basically, this is an epic PR failure if you get down to it. The customers feel, for good reason, they cannot trust what Bioware tells them.

I see this as partially fallout from DA2, and partially the fact that Bioware has told so many lies leading up to this release that they could claim the sun rises in the east and someone would go out and check to make sure.

[AlanC9]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

More on the timing and clarity on the content and decision behind it.  

The thinking behind the decision is pretty obvious, isn't it?

"Cat's out of the bag that there's a prothean somewhere in the game, so we can't use him for the big midgame reveal (like Revan in KotOR). So since we don't really need to keep him secret until the game ships, why not use him for DLC? He'd make a pretty interesting one, and probably sell well."

(Of course, that's just an assumption. I don't know when their process has them making a final determination about DLC. Maybe you've got a better idea?)

Though from the chatter here it sounds like Bio seriously underestimated how much people would be into Prothy, or they would have used him to sell more CEs.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 février 2012 - 06:57 .

[fropas]

nitefyre410 wrote...

fropas wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Is it important to the ME3 story?  No, the Protheans have been irreleveant to the story since talking with Sovereign and Vigil.  But, it is important to people who are fans of the story and to the lore of ME merely for the experience and interaction - Even if you can find out the information through other avenues.  I'm on your side of the table over this whole thing, but I still think it was a crappy move by Bioware.

I grant that it might be specifically uninmportatn to Shepards story (judging by leaks though I'm starting to suspect that there will be serious logic failures at some point though) but to the galaxy at large this is an earthshaking event nearly rivaling the reaper invasion.

Umm, I think DJBear read the leaked script and confirmed that Javik IS in ME3 regardless if you buy DLC--you just won't be able to use him

 

that does not make it any better it makes it worst...

So lets hope that is not true.

Javik: Hey Sheperd I got a problem.

Shep: What is it?

Javik: I need to borrow 10$.

Shep:

How is that worse?

[Kevin Lozandier]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

If you want to be so pessimistic, any sequel, merchandise, and so forth are nickel and diming. Anything you buy that's not a essential human need is nickel and diming that is well-crafted and well-thought out. From Facebook to Movies, it's something that occurs throughout our lives that we do to others to be well-off in our respective societies. 

I think let's not be naive here. 

i wouldn't consider any content developed weeks/months post-launch to be nickel and diming.
however, any in-game content developed before and released at launch aside from cosmetic/weapons/armor items for an extra cost is to me nickel and diming. 

I would argue, you don't know what nickel or diming is. The moment I take account profit with an action of mine from others I am nickel and diming. Being a stripper is nickel and timing. Creating art to sell is nickel and diming. Creating work I want to buy and take that to account when making it is nickel and diming. 

[ArkkAngel007]

AlanC9 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

More on the timing and clarity on the content and decision behind it.  

The thinking behind the decision is pretty obvious, isn't it?

"Cat's out of the bag that there's a prothean somewhere in the game, so we can't use him for the big midgame reveal (like Revan in KotOR). So since we don't really need to keep him secret until the game ships, why not use him for DLC? He'd make a pretty interesting one, and probably sell well."

Though from the chatter here it sounds like Bio seriously underestimated how much people would be into Prothy, or they would have used him to sell more CEs.

But that wasn't the case.  He was DLC from the very beginning.  So that explanation isn't valid.

[BaronIveagh]

fropas wrote...

Javik: Hey Sheperd I got a problem.

Shep: What is it?

Javik: I need to borrow 10$.

Sorry, you just gave me a flashback to DA:O and tht guy in my camp that wouldn't let me quest until I bought the DLC...

[ZX12r Ninja]

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

He's not important it's what I'm still not getting because everyone else who's mad says otherwise.

Ok, let's start at the top: the Protheans know more about the mass relays and reaper tech then any of the living species. 

Those of you following various plot leaks might  realize just how big that is.  You know, if we use logic.

Him having no role is sort of like that part at the original ending of Fallout 3 where the robot companion who was immune to radiation would not go into the radiation filled chamber, and insisted you had to do it as it was your destiny to die heroicly.

You are absolutely and completely wrong. You assume they knew more but infact they didn't. What the Protheans were.

Protheans are important?

* Protheans were a space fearing species who lived 50.000 years ago,
* they dind't build the relays and they didn't build the Citadel,
* their technology was mostly based on stuff left behind from other species from other cycles,
* they were the last victims of this cycle which is going on,
* they were attacked by the Reapers,
* because of problems of harvesting them the Reapers re purposed them as the collectors and they now serve/used to serve the Reapers.
* Shepard wiped them out in ME2.

The Reapers have been at it for milions of years, every 50.000 years would add upto hundreds maybe thousands of species, do we also need information on those? We know just about everything we need to know about the Protheans, now what about them Reapers?

They knew nothing more or less about the Relays, Reapers or the Citadel then Shepard did. Their tech was based of stuff left behind from other species in other cycles. At first it's assumed all tech in the universe is Protehan but lateron we find out it's actually a mix match of other species much older then the Protheans, like Omega.

The statues on Ilos indicate the tech on Ilos was left behind from another race. It could be the Protheans were no more advanced then humanity but by chance 12 of their scientists happened to survive. They didn't have any advanced tech or knowledge and all the tech found in the universe assumed to be Prothean is actuall from other species.

Yet again you assume the Protheans are the key to getting more information about the Reapers becasue you want them to be important. While YOU personally want this, there is no basis for this and story wise they can write just about anything they want without involving the Protheans.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 25 février 2012 - 07:03 .

[nitefyre410]

AlanC9 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

More on the timing and clarity on the content and decision behind it.  

The thinking behind the decision is pretty obvious, isn't it?

"Cat's out of the bag that there's a prothean somewhere in the game, so we can't use him for the big midgame reveal (like Revan in KotOR). So since we don't really need to keep him secret until the game ships, why not use him for DLC? He'd make a pretty interesting one, and probably sell well."

(Of course, that's just an assumption. I don't know when their process has them making a final determination about DLC. Maybe you've got a better idea?)

Though from the chatter here it sounds like Bio seriously underestimated how much people would be into Prothy, or they would have used him to sell more CEs.

  

LOL underestimated  - more estimated  on the money... consider its a freaking Prothean,, small role or large role people are going to want to play that and that is extactly what they were expecting.
 
Its damn good Batman Gambit if I say so myself.

[fropas]

BaronIveagh wrote...

fropas wrote...

Javik: Hey Sheperd I got a problem.

Shep: What is it?

Javik: I need to borrow 10$.

Sorry, you just gave me a flashback to DA:O and tht guy in my camp that wouldn't let me quest until I bought the DLC...

Lukily I bought the deluxe edition so I got all the DLC for free, hopefully they do the same with all the MEs one day.