13369 réponses à ce sujet

[O3Hundred]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Just found out about this, and this is really disappointing. Not having this Prothean squadmate is like chopping a limb off a human body. You are taking a very important part of the game, and making people spend even more money on something that should already be in the game. This trilogy is about the Protheans, and the Reapers. Can't see you logic BioWare.

No. The Trilogy is about the Reapers, not the Protheans. You have it twisted and you're making who's important and who's not in something you don't own or truly fully understand as a creative universe that you didn't make.

You're interested in the universe to play and explore more of it though. You're in love in the universe to think about buying something that is deemed optional about the universe by the creators though it seems.

There's a huge difference there....

Not in how I see things. Protheans were the civilization that came before. Mass Effect 1 & 2 both, have a lot to do with the Protheans. If not the Prothean Beacons, Shepard would've never become who he is now, and the game would've ended with Soverign attempt. In Mass Effect 2, we find out that the Protheans are the Collectors who have been indoctrinated by the Reapers. It is very hard to ignore something like this, when the previous games are built on the Prothean extinction.

[rainasa]

AlanC9 wrote...

The thinking behind the decision is pretty obvious, isn't it?

"Cat's out of the bag that there's a prothean somewhere in the game, so we can't use him for the big midgame reveal (like Revan in KotOR). So since we don't really need to keep him secret until the game ships, why not use him for DLC? He'd make a pretty interesting one, and probably sell well."

Though from the chatter here it sounds like Bio seriously underestimated how much people would be into Prothy, or they would have used him to sell more CEs.

the dev's are already saing they are crying themselves to sleep over the fact that they made so few copies of the CE that alot of people's orders for them have been canceled.

and i highly doubt that was their reasoning, it was propably more like "the story involving javick simply isnt up to par to our standards" or they could have cut him due to time constraints, but instead of getting rid of him completely, they worked on him in the time frame they could (during certification) so he could be part of the CE package and as day one dlc.

this matches up nicely with what the dev said on reddit, about how if he wasnt going to be dlc, then he would have never seen the light of day.

Modifié par rainasa, 25 février 2012 - 07:01 .

[BaronIveagh]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

But that wasn't the case.  He was DLC from the very beginning.  So that explanation isn't valid.

I'd agree with you, but there's a problem with lack of information.  We all know the plot underwent a re-write after that happened

Without good information, it's not hard to see that being exactly what happened, particularly since Bioware has, again, spent a lot of the currency known as trust.

[Kevin Lozandier]

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Just found out about this, and this is really disappointing. Not having this Prothean squadmate is like chopping a limb off a human body. You are taking a very important part of the game, and making people spend even more money on something that should already be in the game. This trilogy is about the Protheans, and the Reapers. Can't see you logic BioWare.

No. The Trilogy is about the Reapers, not the Protheans. You have it twisted and you're making who's important and who's not in something you don't own or truly fully understand as a creative universe that you didn't make.

You're interested in the universe to play and explore more of it though. You're in love in the universe to think about buying something that is deemed optional about the universe by the creators though it seems.

There's a huge difference there....

Not in how I see things. Protheans were the civilization that came before. Mass Effect 1 & 2 both, have a lot to do with the Protheans. If not the Prothean Beacons, Shepard would've never become who he is now, and the game would've ended with Soverign attempt. In Mass Effect 2, we find out that the Protheans are the Collectors who have been indoctrinated by the Reapers. It is very hard to ignore something like this, when the previous games are built on the Prothean extinction.

You're wrong; don't take it from me though: The creators of the game want to disagree with you; see Case Hudson's tweets about this. 

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 25 février 2012 - 07:03 .

[nitefyre410]

fropas wrote...

*snip*

Javik: Hey Sheperd I got a problem.

Shep: What is it?

Javik: I need to borrow 10$.

Shep:

How is that worse?

 

From EA standpoint its not... there troll and gambit was successfull

from my standpoint ... I just  /Faceplam at the whole deal take my  $10 bucks and get myself a nice delicious Chipotle Burrito.

[_symphony]

so... did BioWare said something yet?

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I honestly don't know how any paying costumer can support this behavior. The prothean was advertised months ago.

This has likely been posted in here before but just in case it hasn't this video says everything that needs to be said on this completely unethical and unacceptable business practice.

[O3Hundred]

I would understand if it was someone like Zaeed in ME2. Who has nothing to do with the story, he's just an additional character that you can have in your squad. Same goes for Kasumi. But a Prothean squadmate is much more than a regular squadmate.

[wolfsite]

_symphony wrote...

so... did BioWare said something yet?

Ya they said something on page 1.

[Balek-Vriege]

I think we can't know how important this Prothean will be to the storyline, because we know nothing of his back story. For all we know he knows absolutely nothing about the invasion, or was very involved in the "resistance" against them. Either way, to assume the story unfolds around a DLC squadmate solely because he's a Prothean is a bit premature and naive if you ask me. All Protheans were not uber scientists studying on how to defeat the Reapers. There were janitors, soldiers, artists, doctors, construction workers, cubical workers etc etc etc. Protheans too.

More likely than not he's a soldier (based on his armor), who knows much about Prothean lore, culture and society because he was part of it. He probably doesn't know much about the Reapers save for them wiping out his species. It all depends on his station, what he was involved in and how long he was around during the invasion before whatever happened to him. His story could easily be:

"I was a soldier stationed here and the relay became locked down. Soon after we started hearing stories of monsters killing everyone over the beacons. Bla bla bla so I ended up jumping into a stasis pod and now i'm here today. What happened to the rest of my race? Did we survive?"

I think many who are angry about having to buy the CE DLC content for SE would have been angrier if they didn't get the DLC as an option to buy. Then there's the whole "DLC sucks for reasons x, y and z" which have been around since the birth of Expansion Packs ("Why wasn't this included in the main game?" being the universal one). I remember seeing those arguments way back in the mid/late 90s when expansions became popular.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 25 février 2012 - 07:05 .

[rainasa]

_symphony wrote...

so... did BioWare said something yet?

they dont have to, its not like there is time before release to change anything anyway.

[fropas]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

I honestly don't know how any paying costumer can support this behavior. The prothean was advertised months ago.

This has likely been posted in here before but just in case it hasn't this video says everything that needs to be said on this completely unethical and unacceptable business practice.

Huh I must have missed those adverts. . .

Modifié par fropas, 25 février 2012 - 07:06 .

[BaronIveagh]

rainasa wrote...
this matches up nicely with what the dev said on reddit, about how if he wasnt going to be dlc, then he would have never seen the light of day.

Actually, it was mentioned they cut him because he took too much focus off of Shep.  Cursed with Awesome, indeed.

And I have not seen a dev post on reddit yet.  Just one of the Community Managers, who are Bioware's PR flacks, not devs.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 25 février 2012 - 07:07 .

[ZX12r Ninja]

Seriously, if people are going to play this game with some arbitrary expectation about the Protheans then don't buy this game at all. Don't feel like having a perfectly good story ruined because some people think they know more about storytelling then the professionals.

[O3Hundred]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Just found out about this, and this is really disappointing. Not having this Prothean squadmate is like chopping a limb off a human body. You are taking a very important part of the game, and making people spend even more money on something that should already be in the game. This trilogy is about the Protheans, and the Reapers. Can't see you logic BioWare.

No. The Trilogy is about the Reapers, not the Protheans. You have it twisted and you're making who's important and who's not in something you don't own or truly fully understand as a creative universe that you didn't make.

You're interested in the universe to play and explore more of it though. You're in love in the universe to think about buying something that is deemed optional about the universe by the creators though it seems.

There's a huge difference there....

Not in how I see things. Protheans were the civilization that came before. Mass Effect 1 & 2 both, have a lot to do with the Protheans. If not the Prothean Beacons, Shepard would've never become who he is now, and the game would've ended with Soverign attempt. In Mass Effect 2, we find out that the Protheans are the Collectors who have been indoctrinated by the Reapers. It is very hard to ignore something like this, when the previous games are built on the Prothean extinction.

You're wrong; don't take it from me though: The creators of the game want to disagree with you; see Case Hudson's tweets about this. 

How am I wrong? As I posted just now, if it was someone like Kasumi, who had nothing to do with the story, then fine, I don't care. But this is part of the story, that fans of the trilogy can't miss. It would be like making the ending of the trilogy a DLC. Its a must have, but I shouldn't pay extra for it.

[ArkkAngel007]

BaronIveagh wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

But that wasn't the case.  He was DLC from the very beginning.  So that explanation isn't valid.

I'd agree with you, but there's a problem with lack of information.  We all know the plot underwent a re-write after that happened

Without good information, it's not hard to see that being exactly what happened, particularly since Bioware has, again, spent a lot of the currency known as trust.

He's only available from Eden Prime, and you can't go to Eden Prime unless you have the DLC.  There are not Eden Prime indicators in the TLK files.  He is also not present outside of any dialogue in the TLK files.  No powers, cinematic descriptions..nothing other than what was already confirmed for VO work in production.  These are the files in the game that have been 100% reliable regarding everything that's been shown to us and teased.  There is no better information out there except the developers, who people aren't going to belive anyways.  

The only thing we don't know is the actual decision on why a Prothean was the choice of all their dropped concepts to bring back as DLC we have to pay for instead of being just a new game perk along with the online pass, though I'm sure we have already established a likely explanation.

[_symphony]

wolfsite wrote...

_symphony wrote...

so... did BioWare said something yet?

Ya they said something on page 1. 

oh... but that was like ... three hundred pages ago 

[Kevin Lozandier]

O3Hundred wrote...

I would understand if it was someone like Zaeed in ME2. Who has nothing to do with the story, he's just an additional character that you can have in your squad. Same goes for Kasumi. But a Prothean squadmate is much more than a regular squadmate.

Just some random smuck that people won't care about and justify asking loyal fans to get them to buy  a CE for the final game of the trilogy, which is supposed to bring closure and be a big deal. Hope you didn't put much thought into that comment.

The Prothean Character and DLC that means a lot of fans is a great treat for those who invested early into the new game via pre-ordering the CE which is meant to be dealt with in limited supply before the game is launched is sold well. 

This is nothing too different than paying off your most loyal investors with dividends with preferred stock than those who bought the normal stock. 

[BaronIveagh]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

Seriously, if people are going to play this game with some arbitrary expectation about the Protheans then don't buy this game at all. Don't feel like having a perfectly good story ruined because some people think they know more about storytelling then the professionals.

You do realize that even professionals have to deal wtih corporate meddling, which does screw up good storeis al lthe time, right?

And, frankly, CS Goto is a professional writer, and I'll gouge my eyes out before I read another of his Warhammer 40k books.

[rainasa]

BaronIveagh wrote...

rainasa wrote...
this matches up nicely with what the dev said on reddit, about how if he wasnt going to be dlc, then he would have never seen the light of day.

Actually, it was mentioend they cut him because he took too much focus off of Shep.  Cursed with Awesome, indeed.

And I have not seen a dev post on reddit yet.  Just one of the Community Managers, who are Bioware's PR flacks, not devs.

I feel like I had this same conversation with you yesterday.....

and yes javick's story in the first leaked script wasnt that good, and I would have prefered if bioware had simply left his character to rot, but alas.

even though I disagree with who the squadmate is and how they handled this situation, I also believe they have every right to do what they have done, just because his character existsed in a very very early stage of the script does not mean you deserve to get him for free.

Modifié par rainasa, 25 février 2012 - 07:12 .

[MissOuJ]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

I honestly don't know how any paying costumer can support this behavior. The prothean was advertised months ago.

Extra squadmate for CE & DDE buyers was advertised months ago. Info about the squaddie maybe being a prothean was also leaked months ago, but it wasn't exactly advertised...

[wrdnshprd]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

<snip>

But this isn't the past , things change over time.The time of free dlc is coming to an end , but it doesn't mean you can't play the game from begining to end without Prothean.

first off, im not asking for 'free' DLC.  im asking everyone, regardless of what version of the game they bought, get the same story experience at launch.  even today, thats how most companies work. more importantly though, its how ME1 and ME 2 worked.  again, i dont care about multiplayer.. there are plenty of games that provide that as a feature, and still give everyone the same story experience.

they want to charge for dlc after release.  awesome.  as long as the content looks like something im interested, ill be happy to support it.

the fact is, EA and bioware are only getting away with this because we allow them to.  if we want it to stop, all we have to do is not buy their product and vote with our wallets.

and thats what really ticks me off about this whole thing .. for ME1 and ME2, this wasnt an issue.  EVERYONE got access to the same story driven content on day of release.  now all of a sudden, at the end of the trilogy they pull this stunt because they know that:

1.  most fans could care less and will buy the game anyway.
2.  people will want to see the end of the story because of the time invested in the previous two games (like myself)

its really bad business, and honestly its starting to make me lose any respect i once had for bioware. which is hard for me to say.  im sure the devs and the rest of the staff are all great people.  but what they are doing is wrong.  period.

What exactly is EA getting away with ? Either you choose to buy day 1 dlc or you don't , nobody's forcing anyone to buy it.

their not forcing me to buy it, but they know that there a lot of people like myself that disagree with this kind of thing, but will still purchase the game to complete the trilogy.  and honestly.. thats the ONLY reason im doing so.  you can bet i wont be supporting any of their future franchises if this is how they want to sell their product.

your right.  TECHNICALLY bioware and EA have done nothing wrong.. but they are basically nickel and diming a portion of their playerbase because they know they can.  some may be ok with this kind of business practice.. i myself am not.

If you want to be so pessimistic, any sequel, merchandise, and so forth are nickel and diming. Anything you buy that's not a essential human need is nickel and diming that is well-crafted and well-thought out. From Facebook to Movies, it's something that occurs throughout our lives that we do to others to be well-off in our respective societies. 

I think let's not be naive here. 

people's definition of 'nickle and diming' is different.. granted..

my version just includes companies like EA monetizing story driven content at launch, when 95% of the rest of the market doesnt do that.

do companies monetize weapons, armor, social items, vanity pets, that kind of thing at launch?  absolutely.. however, i would hope you would see the difference between a vanity pet and an actual quest/mission.

as ive asked earlier in the thread, would you be ok if bioware/EA decided to release the content for ashley/liara as the day 1 dlc?  wouldnt that be considered nickel and diming?

one of the arguments for this type of practice is that its bioware's game, and they have a right to decide what is and is not an important part of their game.

well, wouldnt that be exactly what they are doing in this case.  so why is it suddenly wrong?

imo, it shouldnt matter.  whats important to the story should be left up to the player because all of that is SUBJECTIVE.  some may care about the liara/ashley story line.. others may care about the prothean. 

[fropas]

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Just found out about this, and this is really disappointing. Not having this Prothean squadmate is like chopping a limb off a human body. You are taking a very important part of the game, and making people spend even more money on something that should already be in the game. This trilogy is about the Protheans, and the Reapers. Can't see you logic BioWare.

No. The Trilogy is about the Reapers, not the Protheans. You have it twisted and you're making who's important and who's not in something you don't own or truly fully understand as a creative universe that you didn't make.

You're interested in the universe to play and explore more of it though. You're in love in the universe to think about buying something that is deemed optional about the universe by the creators though it seems.

There's a huge difference there....

Not in how I see things. Protheans were the civilization that came before. Mass Effect 1 & 2 both, have a lot to do with the Protheans. If not the Prothean Beacons, Shepard would've never become who he is now, and the game would've ended with Soverign attempt. In Mass Effect 2, we find out that the Protheans are the Collectors who have been indoctrinated by the Reapers. It is very hard to ignore something like this, when the previous games are built on the Prothean extinction.

You're wrong; don't take it from me though: The creators of the game want to disagree with you; see Case Hudson's tweets about this. 

How am I wrong? As I posted just now, if it was someone like Kasumi, who had nothing to do with the story, then fine, I don't care. But this is part of the story, that fans of the trilogy can't miss. It would be like making the ending of the trilogy a DLC. Its a must have, but I shouldn't pay extra for it.

But he isn't essential to the story of SHEPERD defeating the reapers which is what ME3 is all about. 

If you bought all three games new you've already spent 180~220$ so you're mad about an extra 10$? wow those are some real big fans you're talking about. . .

[Kevin Lozandier]

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Just found out about this, and this is really disappointing. Not having this Prothean squadmate is like chopping a limb off a human body. You are taking a very important part of the game, and making people spend even more money on something that should already be in the game. This trilogy is about the Protheans, and the Reapers. Can't see you logic BioWare.

No. The Trilogy is about the Reapers, not the Protheans. You have it twisted and you're making who's important and who's not in something you don't own or truly fully understand as a creative universe that you didn't make.

You're interested in the universe to play and explore more of it though. You're in love in the universe to think about buying something that is deemed optional about the universe by the creators though it seems.

There's a huge difference there....

Not in how I see things. Protheans were the civilization that came before. Mass Effect 1 & 2 both, have a lot to do with the Protheans. If not the Prothean Beacons, Shepard would've never become who he is now, and the game would've ended with Soverign attempt. In Mass Effect 2, we find out that the Protheans are the Collectors who have been indoctrinated by the Reapers. It is very hard to ignore something like this, when the previous games are built on the Prothean extinction.

You're wrong; don't take it from me though: The creators of the game want to disagree with you; see Case Hudson's tweets about this. 

How am I wrong? As I posted just now, if it was someone like Kasumi, who had nothing to do with the story, then fine, I don't care. But this is part of the story, that fans of the trilogy can't miss. It would be like making the ending of the trilogy a DLC. Its a must have, but I shouldn't pay extra for it.

You are wrong because you're using absolutes that you can't really use the way you're using them. Like right now. You state that the Prothean DLC 'can't be missed'? I honestly think that if you're really about what you're saying, you must not give Bioware ammunition of saying  implicitly that this 'DLC is too good' to not buy.... I'm just saying....

[ArkkAngel007]

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Just found out about this, and this is really disappointing. Not having this Prothean squadmate is like chopping a limb off a human body. You are taking a very important part of the game, and making people spend even more money on something that should already be in the game. This trilogy is about the Protheans, and the Reapers. Can't see you logic BioWare.

No. The Trilogy is about the Reapers, not the Protheans. You have it twisted and you're making who's important and who's not in something you don't own or truly fully understand as a creative universe that you didn't make.

You're interested in the universe to play and explore more of it though. You're in love in the universe to think about buying something that is deemed optional about the universe by the creators though it seems.

There's a huge difference there....

Not in how I see things. Protheans were the civilization that came before. Mass Effect 1 & 2 both, have a lot to do with the Protheans. If not the Prothean Beacons, Shepard would've never become who he is now, and the game would've ended with Soverign attempt. In Mass Effect 2, we find out that the Protheans are the Collectors who have been indoctrinated by the Reapers. It is very hard to ignore something like this, when the previous games are built on the Prothean extinction.

You're wrong; don't take it from me though: The creators of the game want to disagree with you; see Case Hudson's tweets about this. 

How am I wrong? As I posted just now, if it was someone like Kasumi, who had nothing to do with the story, then fine, I don't care. But this is part of the story, that fans of the trilogy can't miss. It would be like making the ending of the trilogy a DLC. Its a must have, but I shouldn't pay extra for it.

The Protheans were only able to do what they did because of the precursors, and nothing would have been they were because of the Reapers.  Casey, the mind behind the IP, has stated that the Reapers are what are important, not the Protheans. 

That doesn't mean the Protheans aren't important at all.  But the fact is that they are not what is central to Mass Effect.  It's the Reapers and their cycle, and whatever had begun that process.