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Mass Effect 3: From Ashes


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#9476
ZX12r Ninja

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BaronIveagh wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

They knew nothing more or less about the Relays, Reapers or the Citadel then Shepard did. Their tech was based of stuff left behind from other species in other cycles. At first it's assumed all tech in the universe is Protehan but lateron we find out it's actually a mix match of other species much older then the Protheans, like Omega.

The statues on Ilos indicate the tech on Ilos was left behind from another race. It could be the Protheans were no more advanced then humanity but by chance 12 of their scientists happened to survive. They didn't have any advanced tech or knowledge and all the tech found in the universe assumed to be Prothean is actuall from other species.

Yet again you assume the Protheans are the key to getting more information about the Reapers becasue you want them to be important. While YOU personally want this, there is no basis for this and story wise they can write just about anything they want without involving the Protheans.


Did not see this post.

You might want to fact check those points before posting them.

* Protheans were a space fearing species who lived 50.000 years ago, (True)
* they dind't build the relays and they didn't build the Citadel, (Half True.  Protheans had in fact, begun building thier own relays, such as the miniture relay on the Citidel.)
* their technology was mostly based on stuff left behind from other species from other cycles, (Unclear.  It's made appearent that they extensivly reverse engineered the Mass Relays and Citidel, but ther other technologies seem to bare little resembelence to reaper tech.)

* they were the last victims of this cycle which is going on, (Actually they would ahve been the last victims of the previous cycle, but I digress)
* they were attacked by the Reapers, (true)
*
because of problems of harvesting them the Reapers re purposed them as
the collectors and they now serve/used to serve the Reapers. (first part: reasonable assumption Second Part: true to a degree.  There are other possible locations for Prothean survivors.)
* Shepard wiped them out in ME2.(Shepard wiped out the Collectors, who were basically Prothean husks.  And, again, there are possible loaations for more Prothean survivors)

And, how do any of them make hte Protheans any less important to the story?  That fact they were able to do this suggests they understand reaper technology t oa much higher degree then existing species. 

I don't see, for example, asari experts or human engineers building working mass relays.

You (sneeringly) imply that I think they should be important becasue I want them to be important.  Granted, I do think they should be important, however, your position that Shepard now equals thier knowlege of the reapers is not nessicarilly true.  Given that their war with the reapers appearently lasted quite a while, even a regular soldier would have insights that Shep might not have about previously unencountered forms of reaper tech.


it's obvious you haven't read the books because some of the things you said are handled in the books. It's nowhere implied that the conduite is built by the Protheans, liek I said the statues on Ilos imply the facilities there were bult by another species before the Prothean. As explained in the books and as seen on Omega, most Prothean tech comes from others.

Read the books then come back.

#9477
BaronIveagh

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MissOuJ wrote...

Seriously tho, something always comes up in the development, and you can only budget so much time  for SNAFU coverage before the investors start to get twitchy. Many people already work crunchtime regularly in the gaming industry because of time management failures - claiming you're entitled to content the developer doesn't have the time to polish for certification is pretty much dooming the game dev team into doing ridiculous maelstrom of overtime - just so you could have more content in the game for the same retail price. And giving stuff away for free isn't exactly good business.


I can recall 80 hour weeks, and I'm not even a programmer.

Again,, DLC should not be free.  What it should be, however, is better planned and managed. This is the fundimental break down here.  The idea of using a Prothean outside the core game was not well thought out, unless thier goal was to appear to be forcing people to buy the DLC if they want the complete experiance.

#9478
nitefyre410

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CommanderCoffee wrote...

Azure33 wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

X-Men, Batman: Dark knight, The Muppets, Harry Potter, Forest Gump, just to name a few of the top of my head.

Yet again... You assume all content is bad because there is some bad content.


Ok wait just a second. Forrest Gump was an awful movie with a terrible message. That one does not help your case at all.


Forrest Gump was the best movie of the 90s and anyone saying otherwise is a heathen who doesn't know what living is. *crosses arms*

 

/co-sign face

#9479
Orange Face_

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Just chiming in to say I think this whole thing is pretty interesting... Personally I don't care because I've gone vanilla the whole way and decided that ME3 was the last video game I'd ever purchase. I kinda figured this would come after seeing all of the DLC that came out for ME2 and expect that all games will be only available as DLC in the near future.

Anyway I started a poll yesterday just to collect some raw data to see if people think EA/Bioware handled this properly, yes/no. I've got about 90 votes so far and the is a near 60/40 split. To be honest that's more than I expected that disapprove of this business practice. Honestly change is usually initiated by smaller percentages than that.

To be fair there is no I don't care option (if there was I'd vote that way). But the thing is EA/Bioware is going down this road and so far (from a limited sample) roughly 40% of those who hve something to say about it aren't happy. Granted that number changes when you include the people who don't care and plan to continue purchasing EA/Bioware products, but it is still signifigant because even a roughly 10% being upset can have a hug impact.

If you are interesting in contributing to the poll here is the link.
http://social.biowar.../1558011/polls/

I think I will close it at midnight 2/27 MST because I don't want to wait too long to share the results.

#9480
Stealth3

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JBo796 wrote...

Who cares about Day One DLC. If you all would have been prepared, you would have pre ordered the N7 edition forever ago and wouldn't have to worry about buying the DLC seperate. Morons...


Oh, we don't have to worry.  You got it all wrong buddy, dont you worry, we're not missing anything here.  Its Bioware that has to worry. 

#9481
_symphony

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rainasa wrote...

_symphony wrote...

But this is how it starts! Prothy might not be important to the main plot, but is a bloody prothean. Any fan will want it.

next? bonus alternate ending  for ME4! and not included in anybodies collector editions.

this is so, so, so, beyond silly. you should feel bad for even having the audacity to type it.

What's so wrong with being silly? (:

I have seen worse.

#9482
rainasa

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O3Hundred wrote...

Regular DLC is anything other story impacting. i.e Appearance, additional weapons. I am not from the US, and the money here is not the dollars. Mass Effect 3 SE here costs 70$, which is equlivant to my grocery shopping payment for food that's enough for a week. A CE costs 110$. I could get it in illegal ways, but I am not that kind of person. I am too much of a fan, to go down to that level. So now, you see my problem.


so then you where also against LotSB, kasumi, and arrival as well? hell shadow broker and arrival have a much bigger impact on the story then from ashes does, all the infomation javick provides is also found in the original ME3 game, nor does he have any importance in the main story.

#9483
MissOuJ

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BaronIveagh wrote...

They've already been doing that, on top the DLC, as well as exploiting exchange rates, just not in the North american market.

And people are complaining about that too.  Frankly, the days of the AAA release are numbered,, as it's not really a profitable way to do buisness in this day and age.


Oh, I know. I pay about the equivalent of $80-$90 for new releases....

And I hope the days of the triple-A games aren't over, because we'd lose so many awesome games. Like it or not, the corporate model does make it possible to craft big, expansive, and awesome looking games. Of course, for every ME they release something like MindJack/DNF, but the potential for good is there and I'd be sorry to see it lost.

#9484
O3Hundred

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Stealth3 wrote...

fropas wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Stealth3 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

I think we can't know how important this Prothean will be to the storyline, because we know nothing of his back story. For all we know he knows absolutely nothing about the invasion, or was very involved in the "resistance" against them. Either way, to assume the story unfolds around a DLC squadmate solely because he's a Prothean is a bit premature and naive if you ask me. All Protheans were not uber scientists studying on how to defeat the Reapers. There were janitors, soldiers, artists, doctors, construction workers, cubical workers etc etc etc. Protheans too.

More likely than not he's a soldier (based on his armor), who knows much about Prothean lore, culture and society because he was part of it. He probably doesn't know much about the Reapers save for them wiping out his species. It all depends on his station, what he was involved in and how long he was around during the invasion before whatever happened to him. His story could easily be:

"I was a soldier stationed here and the relay became locked down. Soon after we started hearing stories of monsters killing everyone over the beacons. Bla bla bla so I ended up jumping into a stasis pod and now i'm here today. What happened to the rest of my race? Did we survive?"

I think many who are angry about having to buy the CE DLC content for SE would have been angrier if they didn't get the DLC as an option to buy. Then there's the whole "DLC sucks for reasons x, y and z" which have been around since the birth of Expansion Packs ("Why wasn't this included in the main game?" being the universal one). I remember seeing those arguments way back in the mid/late 90s when expansions became popular.


He was important enough to be put into stasis and preserved for 50,000 years so cut the ****ing bull****.  Bioware did this so people buy the DLC, thats they only reason they chose such subject to be the DLC.


I know right.  Yet people seem to try prove that this isn't important. I mean why Prothean? For CE? Then make it that only the CEs' have the guy, and it isn't DLC. So everyone goes out and buys a CE.


There is not trying to prove.  It's in the god**** files.  He has no impact on ME3 whatsoever outside of being able to shoot things up.

Yes, he was put in cryo for a reason.  However, it didn't go as planned.  So now you basically have a bitter soldier who feels he failed his race, and can sympathize with the races in the current cycle of destruction.

So yes, he was important to the Protheans.  Yes he is important to the lore of the IP.  Yes he is important to fans.

But he is not important to the game.


He is not important in the sense of not making any crucial impact on the story. True. But as you said, he is important to the lore of the IP. So, why the **** make him a DLC? Especially on Day 1. Its like they spit on your face.

Give us your money. Oh by the way, there is additional content that we cut out of the game, and made into a DLC on day one.

If he was released at a later date. I would not bother arguing. But Day 1 DLC, is just stealing your money, because you know you should already have this content.


BW doesn't release all content important to lore free to the consumer. . .or LotSB would have been free on the Cerberus Network ala Zaeed and Normandy. This is an assumption you made.


Only LotSB wasnt released day 1.  That was clearly content created after the game came out.  The prothean is clearly content that was though about and created before the game was finished.  Proof is the demo and leaked script...

This whole certification bull**** is just bull**** because that **** is all paperwork and done in paralel.  The prothean is not included in the full game for the sole reason of selling it as a DLC.  And perhaps they made it less important to justify selling it as DLC.   Just the concept of the prothean squadmate is more important than half your squad in ME2.  There were some really unimportant characters in ME2. 

They can make it important, unimportant...doesnt matter.  The point is, they chose to take something crucial to the lore/universe and sell it as DLC because they know it is likely to sell and therefore generate maximum profit for something that chances are was at least somewhat part of the game itself.


Again, +1. Damn man, soon I will start running out of +1's.

#9485
Azure33

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CommanderCoffee wrote...

Azure33 wrote...

Ok wait just a second. Forrest Gump was an awful movie with a terrible message. That one does not help your case at all.


Forrest Gump was the best movie of the 90s and anyone saying otherwise is a heathen who doesn't know what living is. *crosses arms*


It beat Goodfellas for the best picture Oscar. That is just so, so wrong.

#9486
Kevin Lozandier

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O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

I would understand if it was someone like Zaeed in ME2. Who has nothing to do with the story, he's just an additional character that you can have in your squad. Same goes for Kasumi. But a Prothean squadmate is much more than a regular squadmate.


Just some random smuck that people won't care about and justify asking loyal fans to get them to buy  a CE for the final game of the trilogy, which is supposed to bring closure and be a big deal. Hope you didn't put much thought into that comment.

The Prothean Character and DLC that means a lot of fans is a great treat for those who invested early into the new game via pre-ordering the CE which is meant to be dealt with in limited supply before the game is launched is sold well. 

This is nothing too different than paying off your most loyal investors with dividends with preferred stock than those who bought the normal stock. 


I get your point, and I understand their point of view. But you didn't understand my point. I didn't say they should shove some random person into the CE. A Prothean as a squady is too important to dismiss (which is why I mentioned Kasumi / Zaeed, they are not important, but can still be bought as extra content ) I am a Mass Effect fan, I own both games, but I didn't buy either as a CE. CE have statues, and whatnot, for people with money. I am not that person.


If that's your definition of what a CE is for, I can see your disapppointment. Personally Collector Editions are usually before their devaluation from Gaming Companies 2007-2011 is that they're supposed to bring extended hedons to those who think highly of the franchise and are meant to have items to please such fans.

It doesn't mean they are supposed to be merely trinkets and what not. Non-essential items but would make a long-time fan smile. Being the final game of the series, the Collector Edition of Mass Effect should make that happen. 

With the Prothean Character, and a visit to Eden Prime where the series started + alternate customes I assume will be original outfits of some character or outfits of characters that long-time fans have seen or wanted for some characters from earlier games, art books, and even fan-made outfits for specific characters this is a GREAT extra content... 


I am a long time fan, but it's not my fault that I can't afford a CE. Not everyone has enough money to go out an buy it. I am a student at a University. I go to Uni, then go to work, come home at 10PM, play for a couple of hours and go to sleep. So why should I be left out, if I can't afford it right now? I wouldn't bother proving stuff if this was just a DLC like Normandy's crash site, where you could go back to places you have been to in previous games, and explore( Feros, Noveria, Virmire i.e ) . I wouldn't. But this is far more important, than regular DLC.


What's 'regular' DLC? Enligthen me. I'm a student as well at a Uni. Mass Effect 3 is a game and therefore is not necessary for you to live. If you can't afford it, buy only what you can which is the SE which you don't have to buy at all. You will still have a fine experience. You and only you can make a budget of how much to spend on anything. If you felt that you can't afford $20 dollars more for a CE that was offered the same exact time as the SE, that's a problem you put on yourself rather than something that is more important to your well being like food, books, and etc....


Regular DLC is anything other story impacting. i.e Appearance, additional weapons. I am not from the US, and the money here is not the dollars. Mass Effect 3 SE here costs 70$, which is equlivant to my grocery shopping payment for food that's enough for a week. A CE costs 110$. I could get it in illegal ways, but I am not that kind of person. I am too much of a fan, to go down to that level. So now, you see my problem.


Groceries vs. CE. You made the right decision. However it's a want not a need as far as ME is concerned and you shouldn't demand something now that you know what it is for something that you knew was a possibility of existing months ago when the CE was announced. It's a great fan-service item as it is, but not core to gameplay. If it is found out to be by reviewers, then we have a story;  Until then, most people here with their arguments about it being too important to not be in the SE is baseless and naive from something they don't own or have no say in the story.

#9487
BaronIveagh

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...
it's obvious you haven't read the books because some of the things you said are handled in the books. It's nowhere implied that the conduite is built by the Protheans, liek I said the statues on Ilos imply the facilities there were bult by another species before the Prothean. As explained in the books and as seen on Omega, most Prothean tech comes from others.

Read the books then come back.


Vigil flat out says they built the conduit in ME 1.  Play the games and then come back.


BTW: you have seen the massive list of screwups in the books that was so bad Bioware has promised to reissue them with corrected lore, right?

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 25 février 2012 - 08:01 .


#9488
AlanC9

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Kithrus wrote...

Picking on my methode of getting a point across with punctuation doesn't make my reasoning more or less flawed.


No, it doesn't. Just trying to be helpful. The bold and ital buttons are right there, you know.

But getting back to the main point...
"hey, it's DLC because we finished
finalising the disk before all the content was on it" [Which is the
truth of what they are saying] is just bull****. You do not finalise a
game when you still have ideas, and development time allotted to said
game. The minute you start doing that, you cut the "Game" shorter and
shorter and the "DLC" starts getting larger and larger, whilst being
split into more parts for more $$$.


I'm not at all sure what this is supposed to mean. By "finalize" you mean.... determining what content's being cut, what content's going to DLC, and what content's part of the main game? I've got that right? And the dev time is all there regardless of whether the game will or won't have DLC so you expend the dev time without any concern for whether or not there's DLC?

Where do you imagine the dev time comes from? Without the DLC revenue, what makes you think you get the same amount of dev time assigned to the project? Seriously; why should it work like that?

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 février 2012 - 08:01 .


#9489
nitefyre410

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Azure33 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

Azure33 wrote...

Ok wait just a second. Forrest Gump was an awful movie with a terrible message. That one does not help your case at all.


Forrest Gump was the best movie of the 90s and anyone saying otherwise is a heathen who doesn't know what living is. *crosses arms*


It beat Goodfellas for the best picture Oscar. That is just so, so wrong.

 

Thats not fair man thats like having to choice between you mom and your dad....

#9490
rainasa

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Orange Face wrote...

Just chiming in to say I think this whole thing is pretty interesting... Personally I don't care because I've gone vanilla the whole way and decided that ME3 was the last video game I'd ever purchase. I kinda figured this would come after seeing all of the DLC that came out for ME2 and expect that all games will be only available as DLC in the near future.

Anyway I started a poll yesterday just to collect some raw data to see if people think EA/Bioware handled this properly, yes/no. I've got about 90 votes so far and the is a near 60/40 split. To be honest that's more than I expected that disapprove of this business practice. Honestly change is usually initiated by smaller percentages than that.

To be fair there is no I don't care option (if there was I'd vote that way). But the thing is EA/Bioware is going down this road and so far (from a limited sample) roughly 40% of those who hve something to say about it aren't happy. Granted that number changes when you include the people who don't care and plan to continue purchasing EA/Bioware products, but it is still signifigant because even a roughly 10% being upset can have a hug impact.

If you are interesting in contributing to the poll here is the link.
http://social.biowar.../1558011/polls/

I think I will close it at midnight 2/27 MST because I don't want to wait too long to share the results.



the fourm (especially right now, where most of the people talking about this have had their temper's infamed to the point of critical mass) is not really a good place to judge the reactions of every gamer. it exists to provide feedback, both good and bad, not provide inight into the will humanity.

Modifié par rainasa, 25 février 2012 - 08:02 .


#9491
CommanderCoffee

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Azure33 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

Azure33 wrote...

Ok wait just a second. Forrest Gump was an awful movie with a terrible message. That one does not help your case at all.


Forrest Gump was the best movie of the 90s and anyone saying otherwise is a heathen who doesn't know what living is. *crosses arms*


It beat Goodfellas for the best picture Oscar. That is just so, so wrong.


But what you don't understand is, life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.


nitefyre410 wrote...



Thats not fair man thats like having to choice between you mom and your dad.... 

 

Forrest Gump is the mom, teaching you about people in life and how your shoes take you places. Goodfellas is the dad, slipping you a Playboy when you turn 15 and pouring you a glass of whiskey every now and then.

Modifié par CommanderCoffee, 25 février 2012 - 08:02 .


#9492
O3Hundred

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rainasa wrote...

O3Hundred wrote...

Regular DLC is anything other story impacting. i.e Appearance, additional weapons. I am not from the US, and the money here is not the dollars. Mass Effect 3 SE here costs 70$, which is equlivant to my grocery shopping payment for food that's enough for a week. A CE costs 110$. I could get it in illegal ways, but I am not that kind of person. I am too much of a fan, to go down to that level. So now, you see my problem.


so then you where also against LotSB, kasumi, and arrival as well? hell shadow broker and arrival have a much bigger impact on the story then from ashes does, all the infomation javick provides is also found in the original ME3 game, nor does he have any importance in the main story.


Nope. They were released WAY after game release, and you could see that they worked on it after finishing the game. That is justified in every way.  This, however, is not. If they released him in 2 months time, I would not be here arguing, since I wouldn't know that they cut him out from the game, behind my back, and asked me to pay extra money for something I should already have.

#9493
ArkkAngel007

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BaronIveagh wrote...

Again,, DLC should not be free.  What it should be, however, is better planned and managed. 


This.

Can't fully stand with your breakdown, but that right there...bravo.

#9494
MissOuJ

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Show love for your fellow forumites and cut the quote pyramids, please.

#9495
BaronIveagh

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MissOuJ wrote...

Show love for your fellow forumites and cut the quote pyramids, please.


Seconded.  Ninja can't find my posts showing how wrong he is with all these walls of text.

#9496
fropas

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Stealth3 wrote...

Only LotSB wasnt released day 1.  That was clearly content created after the game came out.  The prothean is clearly content that was though about and created before the game was finished.  Proof is the demo and leaked script...

This whole certification bull**** is just bull**** because that **** is all paperwork and done in paralel.  The prothean is not included in the full game for the sole reason of selling it as a DLC.  And perhaps they made it less important to justify selling it as DLC.   Just the concept of the prothean squadmate is more important than half your squad in ME2.  There were some really unimportant characters in ME2. 

They can make it important, unimportant...doesnt matter.  The point is, they chose to take something crucial to the lore/universe and sell it as DLC because they know it is likely to sell and therefore generate maximum profit for something that chances are was at least somewhat part of the game itself.


The release day is irrelevant to me. Because they intended it to be ADDITIONAL CONTENT ever since they advertised it in the CE commercial.

But your argument is that it's"too important to the lore" to be considered additional. And I'm telling you this is your flawed assumption. LotSB was also very important to ME lore/universe, but it was still 10$. I'm simply reminding you that BW doesn't release "important" content free to its consumers. . .sorry that's been the way BW/EA has operated since ME2. You don't need to accept that, but it won't change anything.

#9497
obie191970

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BaronIveagh wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...
it's obvious you haven't read the books because some of the things you said are handled in the books. It's nowhere implied that the conduite is built by the Protheans, liek I said the statues on Ilos imply the facilities there were bult by another species before the Prothean. As explained in the books and as seen on Omega, most Prothean tech comes from others.

Read the books then come back.


Vigil flat out says they built the conduit in ME 1.  Play the games and then come back.


BTW: you have seen the massive list of screwups in the books that was so bad Bioware has promised to reissue them with corrected lore, right?


That was only the last one.  The first three were written by Drew and were spot on in the lore.

#9498
ArkkAngel007

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BaronIveagh wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...
it's obvious you haven't read the books because some of the things you said are handled in the books. It's nowhere implied that the conduite is built by the Protheans, liek I said the statues on Ilos imply the facilities there were bult by another species before the Prothean. As explained in the books and as seen on Omega, most Prothean tech comes from others.

Read the books then come back.


Vigil flat out says they built the conduit in ME 1.  Play the games and then come back.


BTW: you have seen the massive list of screwups in the books that was so bad Bioware has promised to reissue them with corrected lore, right?


That was Deception, which was complete trash, but it didn't cover any of this.

The Protheans did build the conduit...whether that was through purely their own research or from their precursors, well...
Guess you have to play Mass Effect 3:devil:

Or wait until someone updates the wiki.  That works too.

#9499
Azure33

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I'm guessing that the ME3 original game will end in a cliffhanger. Then it will be followed up by multiple "non-required" DLC releases that will piece together the rest of the story a little at a time. Finally it will culminate in a "Finale" DLC that will cost around $20 and contain about 4 hours of content. The final cost for all the "non-required"(but narrative forwarding) DLC will be $60-70. Add that to the original cost of the game and, well you can do the math.

#9500
rainasa

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O3Hundred wrote...


Nope. They were released WAY after game release, and you could see that they worked on it after finishing the game. That is justified in every way.  This, however, is not. If they released him in 2 months time, I would not be here arguing, since I wouldn't know that they cut him out from the game, behind my back, and asked me to pay extra money for something I should already have.


so your saying that instead of working as hard as they did to finish from ashes to be made available for someone first playthrough you would have rather they had just sat on their asses for a month or so? I can live with that.