13369 réponses à ce sujet

[RDSFirebane]

Rdubs wrote...

Incorrect, we covered this 50-100 pages ago including the exact wording he used.  It has to do with where the pronoun "that" is assigned.  The Biodrones wish he said something like "the text was wrong" but that's not what he said, yet they claim it anyway.

o look we just feel back into name calling thats nice and from what I've seen he never directly comments on anything and uses loose sentences can you re link what he said and what your point is? At this point he hasent lied to anyone he answered but being indirect its a sound way of saying something and nothing at the same time.

[Niemack Saarinen]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

CEer's who have already paid extra should get extra.  In this case they are actually paying 20$ for material they should be getting standard as well.  Had I ordered a CE edition I'd still be upset b/c they are giving me something that should come standard and saying it's part of my compensation for buying the CE.

Uh what?   If you had ordered a CE edition you did so knowingly purchase it because of the extras,   you had the choice hypothetically to purchase the SE edition that did not have the extras.    Your logic makes no sense.

[rainasa]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

I see the word casual thrown about a lot.  Just because people aren't "hard-core" doesn't mean they don't undertand the significance or don't care.  I have friends who are casual Mass Effect fans.  They don't go on BSN or follow up on the Wikis and news sites.  But they love the games and the story, and frequently talk about it whenever the game is brought up.

The problem is, no matter how it's justified, people are going to feel slighted by this.  They don't care about the facts, or what happened behind the scenes.  They just care that this is the product of all of that, and that is the part they don't agree with.

And thats perfectly ok. Bioware DID mess up on this, but there is a diffrence between this whole thing leaving a bad taste in your mouth and lashing out at everything related to ME3.

they have every right to voice their complaints, to boycott both this game and/or this dlc, this fourm was created for fans to leave feedback, both bad and good.

but it does not give them the right to spew their misinformed logic as fact, nor does it give them the right to demand anything from bioware like certain people are. (edit: changed the singular to plural, I was in no way singling you out ArkkAngel007)

Modifié par rainasa, 25 février 2012 - 10:05 .

[Rdubs]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...



The way I look it is that the people complaining about this DLC because it all of a sudden is an important DLC and they skipped getting the CE because they assumed it wouldnt are in the wrong of complaining. It isnt Bioware's fault you assumed the DLC wouldnt be awesome, I am glad the DLC like this isnt sticking to only the CE people and that everyone will be able to get him. Heck I dont care if they made all the digital content available from the CE to everyone to purchase as day 1 DLC.

But also agree with people that say Bioware did go at this wrongly but I also blame Microsoft and this situation has become one of damn if your do and damn if you dont typed thing. I do believe this DLC was meant to be a pure surprise when the game came out and Microsoft let the cat out of the bag and now Bioware and ME3 devs are now doing damage control. Like one of my friends said when we were playing ME3 MP yesterday, I think Microsoft is screwing with Bioware because they gave the series, minus ME1, to PS3 fanbase of Bioware.

But it's NOT "DLC". The prothean squadmate was revealed months ago with the collectors edition. Any content available on release day should be part of the main game, or at least available for free for those who buy new (Zaeed etc) to understandably reduce used sales and increase profits . If Bioware then decide they want to create additional content for ME3 POST RELEASE, well, great! It's optional content for those who enjoyed ME3 and wish to expand the experience. They can charge whatever they like and people can choose whether they think that content is of good value or not.

The only way to know the CE squadmate was going to be a prothean was to meet the following two conditions:
1) Follow the forums, specifically the spoiler forums, and catch the discussion; AND
2) Not believe it when Chris Priestly denied that the Prothean was going to be the squaddie when it was leaked 9 months ago.

I am a huge ME fan and anything the Prothy tells me as a squadmate or the mission on Eden Prime is important to me experiencing the lore.  I didn't find out about this whole snafu until a few days ago, luckily for me I ordered the CE because I thought it would be funny to have the robot dog following me around.  Luckily for me I did because it also scored me a Prothean.  But that's not the way it should be.

[IlluminaZer0]

All this really confirms to me is that ME3 is still in development -- And they are simply charging us for pieces of the game they finish post-certification.

I'll be waiting until ME3's development is truly finished before considering purchase -- Going by precedence that is likely going to be another 6 months to a year.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 10:01 .

[BTCentral]

Rdubs wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

He claimed the advertising contained old wording. He never claimed it had been removed.

Incorrect, we covered this 50-100 pages ago including the exact wording he used.  It has to do with where the pronoun "that" is assigned.  The Biodrones wish he said something like "the text was wrong" but that's not what he said, yet they claim it anyway.

http://social.biowar...51111/1#7551129

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sorry, that was a mistake from old text. It is being removed. Hate to be a killjoy.

Oh wait... no I don't.

Incorrect, but thanks for playing. I've also read though every single page of this thread, so I know what has/has not been covered here, thanks.

Sorry, that was a mistake from old text. End of sentance. New sentance. It is being removed [the text, not the content].

If you took that as meaning the content was being removed, that's your own misinterpretation, not anyone else's fault.

Also, might be worth noting that I never stated my opinion on BioWare's decision to include it with the CE and not the SE, so I can hardly be considered a "Biodrone".

This whole situation was taken out of their hands by Microsoft's muckup, all BioWare could do from that point onwards was damage control - that's not some "Biodrone" talking, that's fact.

Modifié par BTCentral, 25 février 2012 - 10:08 .

[miniy2j]

I shelled out the extra 20 euro for Mass Effect 3 CE, I'm a student this is my food money, it's not like I have this money to burn. I get extra material, which you're not entitled to btw. I paid more, I get more, that's how this world works. You paid less you are not entitled to it, hence why you have to shell out 10$ for it. You can argue about the price, but at the same time you're not entitled to it. If anything Bioware made this dlc while thinking about the CE edition, lets cram as much cool stuff as we can and go out with a bang. So they came up with this silly idea of having a Prothean character show up and become a squadmate, for the CE edition. No one says that they have to give it to you for free, hell I'd be annoyed if I shelled out 20 euro more for the CE edition and you people who bought the normal edition got free day one dlc, which came with the CE edition.

[ArkkAngel007]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Ignorance is no excuse either. Consumers have to take it upon themselves to make informed purchases.

You don't go to a car dealership and just pick a color and drive off only to wonder about specs later...you look into the product before hand so you know what you want/and get.

I feel no sympathy for those who blindly purchase anything.

Except when you purchase a vehicle, the available options are shoved under your nose.  In that manner, there is no excuse if you didn't pay attention to what was right in front of you.  Stop using unrelated analogies...there's a reason it's considered a logical fallacy.

Also, the Prothean was leaked, but then removed from the advertisements.  People aren't going to scoure the depths of the intenet just to confirm a rumor, which is what it would have looked like by someone who isn't following this game's daily marketing and development.  Most wouldn't have even known in either case, since the only people talking about it were fans on boards like these.

Get off the high horse and actually look at the other perspective of consumers who are not fanboys instead of just calling it ignorance as if they had it shining in their **** face.

[Tar-Minastir]

rainasa wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

The content was made prior to release and has been on the out there for months (i don't care about certification or any other pr excuses).  This smacks or piece meal development that was designed to milk the consumers.  Day 1 paid dlc is a bad thing and sets a bad precedent.  Hell, if bioware has simply not released it on day 1 and rather waited and lied to us, I think many ppl would be less offended by the day one dlc.

The prothean is the main problem, if it was a zaeed or katsumi ppl would be less botherd, but as it stands ppl will have to pay extra on day 1 to get the complete expirence.  Regardless of the truth that is how it will play out.  This was a stupid move by bioware/ea and can only hurt them in the end.

I........what? please go back and edit this for clarification, between the very badly worded stentences, your points are just thrown in there like someone voimited it up and change from one viewpoint to the complete opposite of it .

I'm sorry if you can't follow a rational apporoach.  I know you are used to dealing w/ stodges mindlessly batting for their favorite team, but the situation, as I've outlined, is more complex then you seem to understand.

Simply put, bioware has made a mistake w/ this dlc.  

By releasing it at cost on day 1, they have made ppl upset.  
By having a prothean, they are making it seem very important (even if it isn't) and this makes people feel as if they are obligated to buy it,  Again, this makes ppl upset.  

They have lied about it in the past about it and therefore cannot be trusted, making pp upset.  

They are giving it to CE'ers who should be getting it anyway, making them upset.

They are by this decision, they are giving ppl and excuse to buy used, rent, buy later then day 1, wait for a sale, not buy at all, or to simply pirate.  All these things are bad for bioware and bad for the industry.  This should make ppl upset b/c crap like piracy get things like SOPA going and by not treating their customers right bioware/ea are creating an atmoshpere the drives things like piracy out of an ill thought out attempt at revenge.

Bioware could have turned this into a great motivating factor to purachse and unsed it a pr move to draw more attention and hype.  Sadly, they have done the opposite.

 

[Rdubs]

Wulfram wrote...

RDSFirebane wrote...

What stops the people who think the DLC should be with the game and free any way form complaining the CE fans get the next DLC free? are you saying we wouldnt be haveing this issue if it was simply a a Shadow broker type deal that added a whole new area with a major impact and lore information like SB?

The issue is Day One DLC, mostly.  No one's got any problems with stuff being made after the games released.

Clarification (at least from my point of view): The issue is Day One DLC which is important to experiencing the story or lore.  Crap like Warden's Keep isn't really a relevant comparison because that didn't add anything to the DA:O experience or lore.  Being able to have a Prothean squadmate does, even if you can "get the information" he has to say through Codex pages or whatever.  There is a difference between just getting the information and experiencing it.  Who here would have been as happy learning about the Heretics and such from reading a Codex page or a couple extra dialogue lines with Tali versus speaking with Legion?

[obie191970]

rainasa wrote...

but it does not give them the right to spew their misinformed logic as fact, nor does it give them the right to demand anything from bioware like certain people are. (edit: changed the singular to plural, I was in no way singleing you out ArkkAngel007)

HA!  I was in the middle of responding to this when I saw you edited it - ArkkAngel has been one of the most civil and respectful people on here.  Still wonder why he's sporting Hackett and not Garrus though.....

[Insaner Robot]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

The fact that you watch the black adder gives you some credit, but you are far from making anysense.

Since this particular dlc has been viewed as being fairly important  and was completed before release it should be available with the new sale of the game. CEer's who have already paid extra should get extra.  In this case they are actually paying 20$ for material they should be getting standard as well.  Had I ordered a CE edition I'd still be upset b/c they are giving me something that should come standard and saying it's part of my compensation for buying the CE.

If it wasn't clear I apologise, but the quoted Blackadder the third scene was merely an example given of a ridiculous idea. It had no actual connection to your statement other than that.

And as I pre-ordered the CE I am in complete agreement that it should have extra, that's kind of why I got it.

[Kithrus]

obie191970 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

but it does not give them the right to spew their misinformed logic as fact, nor does it give them the right to demand anything from bioware like certain people are. (edit: changed the singular to plural, I was in no way singleing you out ArkkAngel007)

HA!  I was in the middle of responding to this when I saw you edited it - ArkkAngel has been one of the most civil and respectful people on here.  Still wonder why he's sporting Hackett and not Garrus though.....

Because then he would be too busy making calibrations to post.

Modifié par Kithrus, 25 février 2012 - 10:07 .

[Rdubs]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

JamesShepard777 wrote...

The evidence is there for how early this has been planned, and there is essentially zero possibility that it started development after the core game was finished. Even if it was, the fact that it has been completed prior to launch means that it should have been on the disc to begin with. You do not cut content from a game in order to sell it to a limited number of individuals. You also do not backpedal when you're found out and decide "oh well we were going to release it to everybody anyway...for a price" and expect all consumers to be happy. Piecemeal production is NOT acceptable. This is essentially the same as what would have happened if Obsidian had managed to finish KOTOR 2 and then decided to charge for M4 and the HK-47 plotline anyway.

This. How long ago was the CE announced? Six months ago? Longer? I honestly don't how people can defend this, or why they would want to.

For anyone following the forums - which was not me at the time - it was leaked over 9 months ago that the Prothean would be the CE squaddie.  You cannot tell me that almost a year isn't enough time to develop a squadmate or extra mission.  It is clear to everyone except the Biodrones that offering this important story content was planned early on to be sold separately, full well knowing that customers would buy it to have that rich experience.

[AlphaJarmel]

Jesus Christ at this thread being this long. Seriously start a petition as that would be more effective showing the number of people in support of a policy.

[rainasa]

obie191970 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

but it does not give them the right to spew their misinformed logic as fact, nor does it give them the right to demand anything from bioware like certain people are. (edit: changed the singular to plural, I was in no way singleing you out ArkkAngel007)

HA!  I was in the middle of responding to this when I saw you edited it - ArkkAngel has been one of the most civil and respectful people on here.  Still wonder why he's sporting Hackett and not Garrus though.....

*laughs awkwardly* I dun goofed.

nah, his posts lack the ammount of snarkiness that would be expected from Garrus.

[Tar-Minastir]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

CEer's who have already paid extra should get extra.  In this case they are actually paying 20$ for material they should be getting standard as well.  Had I ordered a CE edition I'd still be upset b/c they are giving me something that should come standard and saying it's part of my compensation for buying the CE.

Uh what?   If you had ordered a CE edition you did so knowingly purchase it because of the extras,   you had the choice hypothetically to purchase the SE edition that did not have the extras.    Your logic makes no sense.

I love how you argue that you should be getting a dimished product.  In my opinion, this dlc should come standard meaning you the CE'er would get it and more.  I can understand how you would argue to get a lesser product for you extra investment -- that makes complete sense.

[AlanC9]

Lufven1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
So you'd prefer the DLC to come later, all other things being equal? You'd really rather that they had done what I suggested -- delay From Ashes and put the people who were working on From Ashes onto something else?

I'm interfering here. Yes, delaying the DLC would make perfect sense actually. Just don't tell the consumers that the DLC was finished on day-one and this debate wouldn't have happened. I don't think ANYONE here would be upset if this DLC was released 1-2 months after the release-day.

Thanks.

This strikes me as being so irrational that I'm not sure how to respond to it. 

orly? You don't understand that people are upset about day-one DLC's but are totally ok with DLC's being released months after?

I understand that they feel that way. I'm saying that it's irrational, not that it isn't real.

As it stands now, you can play From Ashes on day 1, or day 14, or day 60, or later, or never..

If Bioware delays From Ashes for two months you can play From Ashes on day 60, or later, or never. The only change is that you've now lost the option to play it before day 60.

Edit: Whoops. That's not the only effect. If Bio did things the way you want then everyone else loses the option to play From Ashes earlier too.

I get that having Bio take away your option to play From Ashes on day 1 would have made you happier. I just think it's really stupid to be happier because you've lost options.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 février 2012 - 10:15 .

[Yuoaman]

miniy2j wrote...

I shelled out the extra 20 euro for Mass Effect 3 CE, I'm a student this is my food money, it's not like I have this money to burn. I get extra material, which you're not entitled to btw. I paid more, I get more, that's how this world works. You paid less you are not entitled to it, hence why you have to shell out 10$ for it. You can argue about the price, but at the same time you're not entitled to it. If anything Bioware made this dlc while thinking about the CE edition, lets cram as much cool stuff as we can and go out with a bang. So they came up with this silly idea of having a Prothean character show up and become a squadmate, for the CE edition. No one says that they have to give it to you for free, hell I'd be annoyed if I shelled out 20 euro more for the CE edition and you people who bought the normal edition got free day one dlc, which came with the CE edition.

The CE comes with a ridiculous amount of stuff, having to share one of the items with people who didn't get it won't devalue the other stuff. And I'm also a student, I shelled out money for the CE, but I still believe that all players should experience the Prothean squadmate and all of the new lore.

[ArkkAngel007]

rainasa wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

I see the word casual thrown about a lot.  Just because people aren't "hard-core" doesn't mean they don't undertand the significance or don't care.  I have friends who are casual Mass Effect fans.  They don't go on BSN or follow up on the Wikis and news sites.  But they love the games and the story, and frequently talk about it whenever the game is brought up.

The problem is, no matter how it's justified, people are going to feel slighted by this.  They don't care about the facts, or what happened behind the scenes.  They just care that this is the product of all of that, and that is the part they don't agree with.

And thats perfectly ok. Bioware DID mess up on this, but there is a diffrence between this whole thing leaving a bad taste in your mouth and lashing out at everything related to ME3.

you have every right to voice your complaints, to boycott both this game and/or this dlc, this fourm was created for fans to leave feedback, both bad and good.

but it does not give them the right to spew their misinformed logic as fact, nor does it give them the right to demand anything from bioware like certain people are. (edit: changed the singular to plural, I was in no way singling you out ArkkAngel007)

I know lol.

 For those who may be mistaken, I have no problem with the content of the DLC, the development process, etc.  Hell, I'm not even in a rage over how the DLC was handled.  However, I do feel it could have been handled better.

So I play a rather objective role.  You say something that is incorrect information, I'm going to correct you.  If people don't have a clear perspective of the other side of the argument for either side, I will give it.  

Quite simply, I'm just keeping things straight and clear.  Some don't like it because it takes out the foundation of their argument at times and they don't want to go through the trouble of reassesing it, but that isn't my concern.  My concern is making sure that if we want BioWare to change it if they can, or at least take into consideration in future cases, that we have the weight behind us to do so.

[Rdubs]

obie191970 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

RDSFirebane wrote...

What stops the people who think the DLC should be with the game and free any way form complaining the CE fans get the next DLC free? are you saying we wouldnt be haveing this issue if it was simply a a Shadow broker type deal that added a whole new area with a major impact and lore information like SB?

The issue is Day One DLC, mostly.  No one's got any problems with stuff being made after the games released.

I'm having a hard time believing that people are upset with day 1 DLC like it's a radical idea or something.  It's pretty common practice in the industry.  You want to argue that it shouldn't be a Prothean, I'll somewhat agree.  But the day 1 DLC argument is weak at best.

Day 1 DLC of the kind like weapons, appearance packs and unimportant characters are fine.  The issue here is that the squaddie and mission they are offering are very important withing Mass Effect lore and would create a really cool experience for any long-time fan of the series.

It's like if they decided to cut out Legion as a squaddie and the Heretic mission and offer that as Day 1 DLC.  Even if they said you can have a couple conversations with Legion as a non-squaddie so you don't miss out on anything, which is how the defenders of this terrible new practice are trying to mitigate it.

[ArkkAngel007]

rainasa wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

but it does not give them the right to spew their misinformed logic as fact, nor does it give them the right to demand anything from bioware like certain people are. (edit: changed the singular to plural, I was in no way singleing you out ArkkAngel007)

HA!  I was in the middle of responding to this when I saw you edited it - ArkkAngel has been one of the most civil and respectful people on here.  Still wonder why he's sporting Hackett and not Garrus though.....

*laughs awkwardly* I dun goofed.

nah, his posts lack the ammount of snarkiness that would be expected from Garrus.

Haha you missed some of my earlier posts then.  I'll consider changing my avatar to that handsome devil.

[rainasa]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

CEer's who have already paid extra should get extra.  In this case they are actually paying 20$ for material they should be getting standard as well.  Had I ordered a CE edition I'd still be upset b/c they are giving me something that should come standard and saying it's part of my compensation for buying the CE.

Uh what?   If you had ordered a CE edition you did so knowingly purchase it because of the extras,   you had the choice hypothetically to purchase the SE edition that did not have the extras.    Your logic makes no sense.

I love how you argue that you should be getting a dimished product.  In my opinion, this dlc should come standard meaning you the CE'er would get it and more.  I can understand how you would argue to get a lesser product for you extra investment -- that makes complete sense.

the SE is not a " dimished" product at all, from ashes is EXTRA content that is OPTIONAL, it provides no lore that cannot be found elsewhere in the game, nor does it have a lasting effect on the story. you are not entitled to it because you want it.
complaining about the fact that he is a prothean is a letgimate complaint, ****ing about why he isnt free is just a waste of space that could be used for someone with somthing actually intellegent to say.

[Rdubs]

Gocad wrote...

*yawn* 385 pages about something that has happened before (DA2 - Exiled Prince anyone?) Also, it makes me feel slightly better about buying the N7 Edition.

Incorrect.  Exiled Prince was not important to Dragon Age lore.

[obie191970]

Rdubs wrote...
Clarification (at least from my point of view): The issue is Day One DLC which is important to experiencing the story or lore.  Crap like Warden's Keep isn't really a relevant comparison because that didn't add anything to the DA:O experience or lore.  Being able to have a Prothean squadmate does, even if you can "get the information" he has to say through Codex pages or whatever.  There is a difference between just getting the information and experiencing it.  Who here would have been as happy learning about the Heretics and such from reading a Codex page or a couple extra dialogue lines with Tali versus speaking with Legion?

The expulsion of the Grey Warden's from Fereldan didn't add anything to DAO experience or lore?  That's an interesting take.  Here's the thing - You can experience it.  It costs $10 if you didn't buy the CE.  You didn't buy the CE because you didn't think it added anything worthwhile to the game - Now you find out it does and you DEMAND that Bioware give it to you for free.