13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Rdubs]

obie191970 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...
Clarification (at least from my point of view): The issue is Day One DLC which is important to experiencing the story or lore.  Crap like Warden's Keep isn't really a relevant comparison because that didn't add anything to the DA:O experience or lore.  Being able to have a Prothean squadmate does, even if you can "get the information" he has to say through Codex pages or whatever.  There is a difference between just getting the information and experiencing it.  Who here would have been as happy learning about the Heretics and such from reading a Codex page or a couple extra dialogue lines with Tali versus speaking with Legion?

The expulsion of the Grey Warden's from Fereldan didn't add anything to DAO experience or lore?  That's an interesting take.  Here's the thing - You can experience it.  It costs $10 if you didn't buy the CE.  You didn't buy the CE because you didn't think it added anything worthwhile to the game - Now you find out it does and you DEMAND that Bioware give it to you for free.  

1) That's correct, the explusion of the Grey Warden's was kind of oh okay, not referencing time and again as the most important and enigmatic race in the game.
2) I actually have the CE so thanks for your note that I don't.  Doesn't mean that what Bioware is trying to pull is right. 

[IlluminaZer0]

All characters but Jacob, Miranda, and Mordin were not "required" to beat ME2's primary story. (Although the game banks on having an arbitrary technician for the first part of the suicide mission). This is reinforced by the game's cutscene logic. In theory it would be pretty arbitrary to make any but these three DLC.

What entail's a "complete" game is pretty arbitrary. The main issue to me is that they are still creating content planned from the vanilla game post-certification and charging for it. I would not be surprised if there were other things beyond the Prothean squad-mate (such as Shadow Broker DLC) that is in production as we speak and planned far before certification.

First playthrough is most important to me anyways -- Would have been nice to have Kasumi/Shadow Broker available from the get-go. It also allows the community to QA for me as well, as that seems to be on the downward slope as well.

In a way I am sort of glad that "From Ashes" reminded me as to why it is a good idea not to blindly jump into (some) companies products.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 10:29 .

[Lufven1]

AlanC9 wrote...
So  ignorance makes you happy? The problem is that you know you could have this DLC , and that just really bothers you for some strange reason?

Keep it up. This is fascinating.

Please don't ridicule yourself. We both know that this debate wouldn't be happening if Bioware announced Prothy 1 month after release even if the character was done well before launch. What about the next DLC planned for ME3? I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it's not in "planning stage"...

Modifié par Lufven1, 25 février 2012 - 10:30 .

[Evercrow]

Well, I will still buy ME3, because developers deserve it.

Never liked dlc, until Shadow Broker Lair came out. Now I don't like it all over again. I feel, as if i'm being forced to pay to include Legion in ME2. I hope there is some kind of lore-giving npc on protheans,maybe that will clear up bad impession from all this, and i can still preorder from Bioware without much mind struggle and doubts in the future.

[Rdubs]

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Gocad wrote...

*yawn* 385 pages about something that has happened before (DA2 - Exiled Prince anyone?) Also, it makes me feel slightly better about buying the N7 Edition.

Incorrect.  Exiled Prince was not important to Dragon Age lore.

it provides backstory and character development even though it is not substantial to the plot in any way, shape, or form. you know, EXACTLY like what Javick and from ashes is going to do.

Again - and I swear I've made this point before, possibly specifically to you - it isn't about the PLOT.  It's about EXPERIENCING the game.  You could have learned about the Heretics from Tali, that way it's covered in the plot.  But something tells me you'd rather hear it from Legion. 

[obie191970]

BTCentral wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Wrong again, nice try.  You provide the quote yet the point I made, which invalidates your point, is what the word "that" is referencing.  Chris' "that" was referencing the Prothean squad member, not the text.  Basic English.

The prothean squadmate was not removed, the text was, ergo I am correct, you are incorrect. Try again.

Seeing the text was removed and the Prothean stayed I think it's pretty clear who is correct here.

[AlanC9]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

That's simply false anyway. I'm plenty invested in ME and I have no interest in buying the DLC.

 

You may feel that way, but I believe that most feel that the story is damn important and selling off a portion of that as a cash-grab is a business practice most pp would disaprove of.

Maybe so. I don't have any way of knowing that. But what you actually said was "To anyone who has any investment in the story of this game the day dlc is NOT optional or extra. "

If you only meant "most people" there I don't have an objection; for all I know I am in the minority on this one.

[DJBare]

Exia001 wrote...

The importance placed on Javik has been placed by assumption, im willing to bet he'll be just another character given that he said his homeland was totaled before he was born

Just a small correction, Javik is an adult that's been found in stasis.

[Rdubs]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

You've been told and demonstrated to that you get all the lore info in the actual game.  The DLC, specifically Javrik, expresses it in just a different way.

You find it essential because you feel it is.  Not because it actually is.  That is why I'm starkly against that argument, because it's based on personal feelings and assumptions, not facts.

Again, confusing "plot" and "lore" with the experience of obtaining that information.  Why don't you go back and play ME2 except have someone else handle all the parts with Legion, then call you on the phone and give you a recap.  In that situation you're still getting all the plot and lore information right?  But somehow I think you'd argue that would detract from your gaming experience.

[ArkkAngel007]

Exia001 wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Gocad wrote...

*yawn* 385 pages about something that has happened before (DA2 - Exiled Prince anyone?) Also, it makes me feel slightly better about buying the N7 Edition.

Incorrect.  Exiled Prince was not important to Dragon Age lore.

it provides backstory and character development even though it is not substantial to the plot in any way, shape, or form. you know, EXACTLY like what Javick and from ashes is going to do.

The importance of Javik has on the game has placed their by assumption, Just because hes a protheans that by no means comfirms he will us anything game breaking, thats been bandwagoned

Exiled Prince was, like zaeed/katsumi a personal story genreally unrelated to the greater lore of the DA universe.  A portheanin the ME universe cannot be that w/o some seriously silly writing.  By all means add a zaeed/katsumi and make it paid dlc, but don't coerce ppl into buying day 1 dlc becouase it A. completes the lore, or B is framed as being lore important but actually isn't.  Either senerio is bad.

The importance placed on Javik has been placed by assumption, im willing to bet he'll be just another character given that he said his homeland was totaled before he was born

Not exactly.  He had a purpose to the Prothean race, but it didn't work out .  It gets explained and it's decent writing and will probably be good gameplay....oops .  But all the information you get that he provides is available from Liara, Thessia, and a few other parts of the game.  It's just the way the information is provided that is different.

But his brief character development and story are separate from the game, just like the rest of the DLC.  And unlike DA: O that was like "Buy to continue mission", you don't get any indicator in ME3 unless you actually own the DLC, just like in ME2.  It's lack of inclusion does not affect you at all.  Only it being included will affect your experience.

A Prothean doesn't have to be important to the plot because he is just a Prothean.  What is important to the plot should just be what is important.  Don't like it?  Go write fan fiction like people did when the Star Wars prequels came out.

[rainasa]

Rdubs wrote...



Again - and I swear I've made this point before, possibly specifically to you - it isn't about the PLOT.  It's about EXPERIENCING the game.  You could have learned about the Heretics from Tali, that way it's covered in the plot.  But something tells me you'd rather hear it from Legion. 

im just going to blatently steal this from arkkangel as he says it better than I could.

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

You've been told and demonstrated to that you get all the lore info
in the actual game.  The DLC, specifically Javrik, expresses it in just a
different way.

You find it essential because you feel it is.
 Not because it actually is.  That is why I'm starkly against that
argument, because it's based on personal feelings and assumptions, not
facts.

Modifié par rainasa, 25 février 2012 - 10:36 .

[OdanUrr]

obie191970 wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Wrong again, nice try.  You provide the quote yet the point I made, which invalidates your point, is what the word "that" is referencing.  Chris' "that" was referencing the Prothean squad member, not the text.  Basic English.

The prothean squadmate was not removed, the text was, ergo I am correct, you are incorrect. Try again.

Seeing the text was removed and the Prothean stayed I think it's pretty clear who is correct here.

Everything is clearer in hindsight. Chris' post wasn't very illuminating either way.

[AlanC9]

Lufven1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
So  ignorance makes you happy? The problem is that you know you could have this DLC , and that just really bothers you for some strange reason?

Keep it up. This is fascinating.

Please don't ridicule yourself. We both know that this debate wouldn't be happening if Bioware announced Prothy 1 month after release even if the character was done well before launch. What about the next DLC planned for ME3? I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it's not in "planning stage"...

I agree the debate wouldn't be happening. But that's because people who think like you are being irrational. If getting From Ashes in a month rather than on day 1 makes you happy, you can get it in a month. Or will you only be happier if no one else can get it before you want it?

As for the next DLC, we'd all be better off if it was available on day 1 too, just as we'd all be better off if ME3 was on sale today rather than some days from now. All other things being equal, having something earlier is better than having it later.

[ArkkAngel007]

Rdubs wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

You've been told and demonstrated to that you get all the lore info in the actual game.  The DLC, specifically Javrik, expresses it in just a different way.

You find it essential because you feel it is.  Not because it actually is.  That is why I'm starkly against that argument, because it's based on personal feelings and assumptions, not facts.

Again, confusing "plot" and "lore" with the experience of obtaining that information.  Why don't you go back and play ME2 except have someone else handle all the parts with Legion, then call you on the phone and give you a recap.  In that situation you're still getting all the plot and lore information right?  But somehow I think you'd argue that would detract from your gaming experience.

I'm sorry, maybe you ought to turn back time to let the writers know how to write the game, because they are obviously missing your enlightened opinion.

If Legion wasn't in that part of the game in that role, but was offered as DLC, it would be fine, because I never played the ME2 version that had him saving me from the Husks and trying to convert the Heretics.

Again, there is a difference between your opinion on what it could have been, and the reality that is actually present.

[Rdubs]

BTCentral wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Wrong again, nice try.  You provide the quote yet the point I made, which invalidates your point, is what the word "that" is referencing.  Chris' "that" was referencing the Prothean squad member, not the text.  Basic English.

The prothean squadmate was not removed, the text was, ergo I am correct, you are incorrect. Try again.

LOL.  That is how it turned out, yes.  So how could it be???  Chris said the Prothean squad mate was removed yet it turns out there actually is one?  HOW COULD THAT BE????  Two options, I am sure you will choose whichever one makes you feel less foolish for having put so much investment in defending all this.

1) It was originally scheduled, then they decided to cut it, then "no wait let's slam to get it back in!!!!!  Whew glad we made it!!!"
2) Chris was doing his job as PR guy and leak damage control guy which occassionally involves either lying or obfuscating the truth.

Your constant and stretched defense of this is making you look foolish.

[Rip504]

I hope we get more then just one choice for day 1 dlc. Many different items would be nice.

Bought!

[obie191970]

Lufven1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
So  ignorance makes you happy? The problem is that you know you could have this DLC , and that just really bothers you for some strange reason?

Keep it up. This is fascinating.

Please don't ridicule yourself. We both know that this debate wouldn't be happening if Bioware announced Prothy 1 month after release even if the character was done well before launch. What about the next DLC planned for ME3? I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it's not in "planning stage"...

I'd guarantee they already know exactly what they are doing for DLC as far as already doing the VO and script.

[Rdubs]

RDSFirebane wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

The rest of your paragraph I did not understand due to poor wording, but if you want to research the exact quote and discussion it should not be too hard to find.  It's irrelevant anyway because the issue is content important to a fan of the series is being sold as extra.

Dont worry about it some one already proved you wrong.

^ what she said prove *That* ment the pro. and not the text. you cant.

How about because
1) it was the prothean which was the thread topic
2) the guy was clearly asking about the prothean, not the text.
3) Kind of like a pretty much "no crap, sherlock" that the text was going to get fixed pretty quick. 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

389 Pages later...

[RDSFirebane]

Rdubs wrote...

LOL.  That is how it turned out, yes.  So how could it be???  Chris said the Prothean squad mate was removed yet it turns out there actually is one?  HOW COULD THAT BE????  Two options, I am sure you will choose whichever one makes you feel less foolish for having put so much investment in defending all this.

1) It was originally scheduled, then they decided to cut it, then "no wait let's slam to get it back in!!!!!  Whew glad we made it!!!"
2) Chris was doing his job as PR guy and leak damage control guy which occassionally involves either lying or obfuscating the truth.

Your constant and stretched defense of this is making you look foolish.

He never said the Pro. was being removed show where he directly said it. and no more foolish then you look argueing it.
 What you said above proves it your going off what you think and not facts your assumeing.

Modifié par RDSFirebane, 25 février 2012 - 10:43 .

[Rip504]

Rdubs wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Wrong again, nice try.  You provide the quote yet the point I made, which invalidates your point, is what the word "that" is referencing.  Chris' "that" was referencing the Prothean squad member, not the text.  Basic English.

The prothean squadmate was not removed, the text was, ergo I am correct, you are incorrect. Try again.

LOL.  That is how it turned out, yes.  So how could it be???  Chris said the Prothean squad mate was removed yet it turns out there actually is one?  HOW COULD THAT BE????  Two options, I am sure you will choose whichever one makes you feel less foolish for having put so much investment in defending all this.

1) It was originally scheduled, then they decided to cut it, then "no wait let's slam to get it back in!!!!!  Whew glad we made it!!!"
2) Chris was doing his job as PR guy and leak damage control guy which occassionally involves either lying or obfuscating the truth.

Your constant and stretched defense of this is making you look foolish.

Rumors number 2...
But a different team had to create and finish the squadmate after verification. The character is also not needed in ME3,only enhances the story. And only for those interested in the Protheans & Eden Prime.

[Niemack Saarinen]

Rdubs wrote...

 Two options, I am sure you will choose whichever one makes you feel less foolish for having put so much investment in defending all this.
--blahblahblahblah

Just like you must feel foolish for having put so much investment in attacking all of this.

[Lufven1]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
So  ignorance makes you happy? The problem is that you know you could have this DLC , and that just really bothers you for some strange reason?

Keep it up. This is fascinating.

Please don't ridicule yourself. We both know that this debate wouldn't be happening if Bioware announced Prothy 1 month after release even if the character was done well before launch. What about the next DLC planned for ME3? I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it's not in "planning stage"...

I agree the debate wouldn't be happening. But that's because people who think like you are being irrational. If getting From Ashes in a month rather than on day 1 makes you happy, you can get it in a month. Or will you only be happier if no one else can get it before you want it?

As for the next DLC, we'd all be better off if it was available on day 1 too, just as we'd all be better off if ME3 was on sale today rather than some days from now. All other things being equal, having something earlier is better than having it later.

The thing is that most people don't view this day-one DLC as an addon to the game but as a cut-off of the main game. And who could blame them? For all we know this character could have been completed months ago (yes, I know what Bioware said about that). Like me, many feel that content that is being available at launch should be included in the game and not be treated as an addon.

[Rdubs]

OdanUrr wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Wrong again, nice try.  You provide the quote yet the point I made, which invalidates your point, is what the word "that" is referencing.  Chris' "that" was referencing the Prothean squad member, not the text.  Basic English.

The prothean squadmate was not removed, the text was, ergo I am correct, you are incorrect. Try again.

Are we still talking about Chris' post about why the "Prothean squadmate/adventure" was removed? I thought we'd covered this like a hundred pages ago.<_<

yes we did, but when someone has a lot emotionally invested in their failed defense of it that's not going to stop them from repeating their mantra.

[Tar-Minastir]

Rdubs wrote...
Again, confusing "plot" and "lore" with the experience of obtaining that information.  Why don't you go back and play ME2 except have someone else handle all the parts with Legion, then call you on the phone and give you a recap.  In that situation you're still getting all the plot and lore information right?  But somehow I think you'd argue that would detract from your gaming experience.

Exactly, we all know this content is out there, so denying it on day 1 is just bad.  The expirence of the game is being diluted and tainted.