13369 réponses à ce sujet

[rainasa]

Tar-Minastir wrote...


They not tossing in anything. They are charging for it.  If this dlc was out of the goodness of bioware/ea's hearts as a gift to their loyal fans, as you have stated, then they wouldn't be charging extra.  Do not delude yourself into thinking bioware has you best interest at heart. 

what we mean by "for the fans" is that javick was not going to exist in the main game, period. he was not going to see the light of day, but because they thought long time fans of the series might appricate the lore he would bring (even though EVERYTHING HE SAYS is already in the game from other sources), they added him as an EXTRA character that is not required at all.

[slimgrin]

Evilelf007 wrote...

The whining by the entitled is amusing! lol

To this I say: suck it.

[AlanC9]

Rdubs wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

I'm glad myself and all the other people upset have agreed that ArkkAngel should be the one who is judge and jury of what we feel is "essential"!

It's pretty clear here what one of the issues is.  You've got some people, probably PS3 players, who don't think having the option of having a Prothean squaddie, already designed and ready to go, is important to achieving maximum enjoyment of ME3.  Then you've got others who do believe having a squad member from the most enigmatic race in the game, and the mission with him, is important to them fully experiencing the game.  For anyone to claim they are a huge fan of the mass effect lore yet missing out on important storytime with a Prothean, is laughable.

ArkkAngel only uses facts to back up his arguments, while you constantly use strawmans and the same points that have been proven to be misinformed to downright malicous time and time again. their comes a point when fanaticism causes only more harm to what people believe in, as the developers are more likely to simply disregard their opinion as trolling and you are far past that point.

It is getting annoying reading your comments, all you do is claim how you have proven anyone wrong and then repeat it later without ever having done so, in fact it has been shown to you where the faults in your evidence lie yet you continue to repeat the evidence without ever having addressed the disproving.  Just calling an argument a straw man does not make it so.  But it's sure easier to think you've won an argument by calling someone else's a straw man.  Good for you, that that works for you.

If you're going to talk about other people not producing evidence, you really shouldn't have included that quote of yours when quoting rainasa. "For anyone to claim they are a huge fan of the mass effect lore yet missing out on important storytime with a Prothean, is laughable. "??? Nonsense.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 février 2012 - 11:22 .

[Rdubs]

RDSFirebane wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

I'm glad myself and all the other people upset have agreed that ArkkAngel should be the one who is judge and jury of what we feel is "essential"!

It's pretty clear here what one of the issues is.  A)You've got some people, probably PS3 players, who don't think having the option of having a Prothean squaddie, already designed and ready to go, is important to achieving maximum enjoyment of ME3.  Then you've got others who do believe having a squad member from the most enigmatic race in the game, and the mission with him, is important to them fully experiencing the game. C) For anyone to claim they are a huge fan of the mass effect lore yet missing out on important storytime with a Prothean, is laughable.

A)I have a 360 and I find that statment to be way out of line. Stop name calling and attacking people we do try to keep things civil in this thread so the mods dont have to come in.

Nope they said it isnt and unless you got one of the space copy's of the game you don't know otherwise.

C) Agreed and even if I had got the SE I would have bought the DLC on day one.

Notice I said "most people."  Which would seem to fit the bill, in that it seems logic someone who never experience ME and all the Prothean content (like Vigil) would deem a Prothean squaddie unimportant.  You can't say that just since you have a 360 that all the people who are trying to claim the Prothy isn't important are not doing so out of ignorance, I offered one possible explanation for SOME not ALL.  That's not a personal attack.

On your , I hope you do see the comedy there - you said without having played the actual game you can't prove that the Prothean squaddie is important.  In that, it works the other way too - without having played the game YOU can't know that the prothy ISN'T important.  I noticed you said "they said it isn't" which is not real strong evidence.  Of COURSE a damage control PR person is going to try to talk down the content once it turned into a firestorm.  I've seen enough PR statements to know that most simply will try to say anything they can to try and control a situation.  I guess up to you whether or not you want to put your full faith and trust in that. Regardless, we won't know until next month.

[rainasa]

Rdubs wrote...

It is getting annoying reading your comments, all you do is claim how you have proven anyone wrong and then repeat it later without ever having done so, in fact it has been shown to you where the faults in your evidence lie yet you continue to repeat the evidence without ever having addressed the disproving.  Just calling an argument a straw man does not make it so.  But it's sure easier to think you've won an argument by calling someone else's a straw man.  Good for you, that that works for you.

 

THIS IS THE EXACT KIND OF ATTITUDE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. instead of trying to help your own argument you simply insult anyone who disagres with your own opinion and ignore the actual infomation itself. when we provide facts on why you are wrong its "lawlbiodrone, they simply lied" when we provided the leaked scripts it was just "lawl they cut him from the game"

going "my opinion is right and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong and also is a tool" is a form of trolling.
im amazed you have not been banned after doing it for 2 days.

[deamon deathstone1]

This whole thread makes me want to say: Stop whining or I'll turn this car around!

[_symphony]

now folks, calm down.

[AlanC9]

Rdubs wrote...

RDSFirebane wrote...

Rdubs wrote...It's pretty clear here what one of the issues is.  A)You've got some people, probably PS3 players, who don't think having the option of having a Prothean squaddie, already designed and ready to go, is important to achieving maximum enjoyment of ME3.  Then you've got others who do believe having a squad member from the most enigmatic race in the game, and the mission with him, is important to them fully experiencing the game. C) For anyone to claim they are a huge fan of the mass effect lore yet missing out on important storytime with a Prothean, is laughable.

A)I have a 360 and I find that statment to be way out of line. Stop name calling and attacking people we do try to keep things civil in this thread so the mods dont have to come in.

Nope they said it isnt and unless you got one of the space copy's of the game you don't know otherwise.

C) Agreed and even if I had got the SE I would have bought the DLC on day one.

Notice I said "most people."  Which would seem to fit the bill, in that it seems logic someone who never experience ME and all the Prothean content (like Vigil) would deem a Prothean squaddie unimportant.  You can't say that just since you have a 360 that all the people who are trying to claim the Prothy isn't important are not doing so out of ignorance, I offered one possible explanation for SOME not ALL.  That's not a personal attack.

Are you retracting your point C, bolded above? You're the one who made a universal statement first.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...



And there is fairly decent evidence which indicates that is the case.

"random statments that I just pulled out of my ass" is not fairly decent evidence.

Since when was anyone 'pulling random statements out of their ass'? The prothean squadmate was advertised with the collectors edition nine months ago, as I'm sure many people have already said. There are also apparently sound files of dialogue in the demo of the prothean squadmate and his role in the leaked script to support this argument.

[RDSFirebane]

AlanC9 wrote...

Are you retracting your point C, bolded above? You're the one who made a universal statement first.

um no I bought the CE. granted looking at that now it does seem questionable my bad.

[Tar-Minastir]

rainasa wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...


They not tossing in anything. They are charging for it.  If this dlc was out of the goodness of bioware/ea's hearts as a gift to their loyal fans, as you have stated, then they wouldn't be charging extra.  Do not delude yourself into thinking bioware has you best interest at heart. 

what we mean by "for the fans" is that javick was not going to exist in the main game, period. he was not going to see the light of day, but because they thought long time fans of the series might appricate the lore he would bring (even though EVERYTHING HE SAYS is already in the game from other sources), they added him as an EXTRA character that is not required at all.

He was going to be in the game (or some equivalent) until they cut him and decided they could make more money selling him back to their oh so loyal customers.  You really are very lucky they care so much about you.  They care so much they are willing to sell it to you.  As a gesture of repect you should send them a check for more money.

As for other sources expirence is everything.  What if this so calls info was just tacted into the codex?  Would that be acceptable?

[ArkkAngel007]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...



And there is fairly decent evidence which indicates that is the case.

"random statments that I just pulled out of my ass" is not fairly decent evidence.

Since when was anyone 'pulling random statements out of their ass'? The prothean squadmate was advertised with the collectors edition nine months ago, as I'm sure many people have already said. There are also apparently sound files of dialogue in the demo of the prothean squadmate and his role in the leaked script to support this argument.

That's not what Rdubs' is talking about though.  If this were that it was intended from DLC from the beginning, then we'd be in agreement.  It's the details they are providing that are wrong, while every solid evidence is dismissed and responded with some form of insult.

[Foxtrot_212]

BE HAPPY!

[bennyjammin79]

It's really faint but it's definitely there.

[_symphony]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...
Since when was anyone 'pulling random statements out of their ass'? The prothean squadmate was advertised with the collectors edition nine months ago, as I'm sure many people have already said. There are also apparently sound files of dialogue in the demo of the prothean squadmate and his role in the leaked script to support this argument.

huh? an "aditional character" was advertised with the CE, you are pulling random statements now.

It was leaked that it was a prothean, and later removed, and that's different. Not everybody is so in touch with every news regarding Mass Effect.

[rainasa]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...



And there is fairly decent evidence which indicates that is the case.

"random statments that I just pulled out of my ass" is not fairly decent evidence.

Since when was anyone 'pulling random statements out of their ass'? The prothean squadmate was advertised with the collectors edition nine months ago, as I'm sure many people have already said. There are also apparently sound files of dialogue in the demo of the prothean squadmate and his role in the leaked script to support this argument.

that isnt evidence at all, just like how kasumi's VO was found in the main disc in ME2, it is required to work on VO in the early stages of the game, and you have not even seen the leaked script, while I have read both versions of it, please do not tell me what is or isnt in it. his mission, the planet eden prime, and the extra squad apperances where not even STARTED ON untill the game went into certification it was NEVER going to be part of the main game.

[obie191970]

Rdubs wrote...
It is getting annoying reading your comments, all you do is claim how you have proven anyone wrong and then repeat it later without ever having done so, in fact it has been shown to you where the faults in your evidence lie yet you continue to repeat the evidence without ever having addressed the disproving.  Just calling an argument a straw man does not make it so.  But it's sure easier to think you've won an argument by calling someone else's a straw man.  Good for you, that that works for you.

In the past couple of pages you've called everyone Biodrones, insulted PS3 owners(360 and PC here) and pretty much personally attacked anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view.  Keep the avatar.  It fits.....

[Stealth3]

People should cancel their CE and regular copies of ME3 so that we show Bioware how we really feel about this sort of crap. Only way to teach them a lesson.

They just force people to pirate the game with a big pirate me sign.....this is all this **** leads to.

Modifié par Stealth3, 25 février 2012 - 11:34 .

[ArkkAngel007]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Tar-Minastir wrote...


They not tossing in anything. They are charging for it.  If this dlc was out of the goodness of bioware/ea's hearts as a gift to their loyal fans, as you have stated, then they wouldn't be charging extra.  Do not delude yourself into thinking bioware has you best interest at heart. 

what we mean by "for the fans" is that javick was not going to exist in the main game, period. he was not going to see the light of day, but because they thought long time fans of the series might appricate the lore he would bring (even though EVERYTHING HE SAYS is already in the game from other sources), they added him as an EXTRA character that is not required at all.

He was going to be in the game (or some equivalent) until they cut him and decided they could make more money selling him back to their oh so loyal customers.  You really are very lucky they care so much about you.  They care so much they are willing to sell it to you.  As a gesture of repect you should send them a check for more money.

As for other sources expirence is everything.  What if this so calls info was just tacted into the codex?  Would that be acceptable?

And again, that's not why he was cut.  He was only added back in because they could probably make money off of him.  If they didn't think so, we wouldn't have gotten him at all.

He was cut originally because the whole plot revolving around him was cut back in the conceptual phase.

Again, most people's main arguments against the DLC are probably correct.  It's what it is being backed up with is incorrect.

[Rdubs]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...



Again - and I swear I've made this point before, possibly specifically to you - it isn't about the PLOT.  It's about EXPERIENCING the game.  You could have learned about the Heretics from Tali, that way it's covered in the plot.  But something tells me you'd rather hear it from Legion. 

im just going to blatently steal this from arkkangel as he says it better than I could.

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

You've been told and demonstrated to that you get all the lore info
in the actual game.  The DLC, specifically Javrik, expresses it in just a
different way.

You find it essential because you feel it is.
 Not because it actually is.  That is why I'm starkly against that
argument, because it's based on personal feelings and assumptions, not
facts.

I'm glad myself and all the other people upset have agreed that ArkkAngel should be the one who is judge and jury of what we feel is "essential"!

It's pretty clear here what one of the issues is.  You've got some people, probably PS3 players, who don't think having the option of having a Prothean squaddie, already designed and ready to go, is important to achieving maximum enjoyment of ME3.  Then you've got others who do believe having a squad member from the most enigmatic race in the game, and the mission with him, is important to them fully experiencing the game.  For anyone to claim they are a huge fan of the mass effect lore yet missing out on important storytime with a Prothean, is laughable.

You are skirting the issue. 
You believe he is important that he is essential because he is a Prothean.
The fact, and by fact is what is written/lack of being written in the script, is that he is not important.

BioWare gave an option.  I don't like how the option is handled, but they could have made him the only way you can get that information and actually be missing out.  But no.  They retained all the lore in the main game, and gave an optional offer of having a Prothean squadmate and experience things through his perspective instead.  You get both, then you get two perspectives to the same lore.

He doesn't have an important storyline, because he failed in what his purpose was.  Now he's just along for the ride.

And again, while you insinuate I'm a "biodrone" and defending this between your poor prose, I've made it clear again and again that I disagree in how this has been handled.

What I find laughable is someone such as yourself refusing to acknowledge the flaws in your argument when they are pointed out.  Just reasses what your argument is, and move on.

I mean, your argument is that since Protheans are important to the fans, and are being offered as fan service, we shouldn't have to be paying extra for it on launch day?  There's nothing wrong with that.  It's just the details you are giving that are flawed.  That's all.

Arkkangel I agree with most of what you say here in that it has decent logic supported by decent foundation, both of which are key to a good position.  But everything revolves around your definition of "essential", in that you believe he's not essential because he doesn't add to the plot and you can get the lore information elsewhere.  I do not think he is "essential" anymore than I think Legion was "essential" in that it would have been easy to work the character out of the story, cover the bases other ways, then offer him as extra content.  But it's the experience of such a character, and having him in your squad and the resulting dialogue and going on the eden prime mission that makes it not ESSENTIAL, but VALUABLE story-related CONTENT. 

About providing the flawed details, can you tell me which?  Facts are the basis for any discussion and it's important that they be correct.  AFAIK the only things I've spoken about which could be deemed "wrong" are the content the Prothy squaddie brings with him, which 1) no one can know until they play the game and 2) even then, different content has different importance with different people and even a smidgeon of Prothean-related content can be a big deal for most fans.

[rainasa]

Tar-Minastir wrote...

He was going to be in the game (or some equivalent) until they cut him and decided they could make more money selling him back to their oh so loyal customers.  You really are very lucky they care so much about you.  They care so much they are willing to sell it to you.  As a gesture of repect you should send them a check for more money.

As for other sources expirence is everything.  What if this so calls info was just tacted into the codex?  Would that be acceptable?

he was NEVER going to be in the ACTUAL game, the version of the script they cut him from was very, very, very, old. it was still undergoing editing! they had not even really started to develop the game at that point. it wasnt like they went    "hur, hur javicks mission is halfway done, but we want money so lets just release him as dlc" like you think it was.

[Dragonagesucksxxx]

Canceled my pre-order because of this scam. I won't support buisness practices like that.

[bennyjammin79]

It's Tchaikovsky. Got to be.

[Tar-Minastir]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

And again, that's not why he was cut.  He was only added back in because they could probably make money off of him.  If they didn't think so, we wouldn't have gotten him at all.

He was cut originally because the whole plot revolving around him was cut back in the conceptual phase.

Again, most people's main arguments against the DLC are probably correct.  It's what it is being backed up with is incorrect.

Then you admit bioware/ea is not doing you any favors and does not require/deserve your blind support in all things as others have attested?

[Rdubs]

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...



And there is fairly decent evidence which indicates that is the case.

"random statments that I just pulled out of my ass" is not fairly decent evidence.

Which clearly shows how closely you have been following discussion related to such.  Reading the information which supports your position while skipping over information which counters your position is part of human nature, I think it's called selection bias or information bias, but it doesn't help you gain understanding.