13369 réponses à ce sujet

[nightcobra]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

oto wrote...

As it has been stated before, this thread is about:

1.Lots of people upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

Not completely accurate, but that's what happens when you resort to a black and white mentality.

I thought this was poorly handled.  This should have been told to consumers 2-3 months ago, even if they didn't have the actual assets of the DLC prepared for public viewing.  Just letting consumers know ahead that they would be wanting to pay another $10 on the same day as launch would have avoided at least some of this.  But no.  They tried burying the existance of the character when it first leaked out, and then Microsoft leaked out the information at the 2 week mark.  We also haven't been given a straight up answer whether or not the character is in the main game, just vague hints from what has been an unreliable PR department in the past.  He isn't in the script in a way that would designate him as being in the main game, and as the script has been as accurate to the letter, including the new IGN footage, I have doubts.

Yet, while a good number of the opposition such as myself disagree with the handling of the DLC, most people are just upset about not having a Prothean squad member.  They don't care if he's important or not (many of them are upset that he isn't), they just want the Prothean, arguing that he is essential only on the basis that they believe that he should be essential.  There are also the one's in the opposition who refuse to take any criticism and correct flaws in their arguments, and, while I'm not going to be as...direct...as DL mentioned, won't even take in the facts given by the devs, even if they are still being cagey about the details we want to know.

So while there are a few people defending it with the "Bought CE, don't care" explanation and such, many who are against the DLC are just acting like spoiled brats too.

Edit: I realize I didn't express everyone's argument, including all of mine, against this content or for "defending" this content, I'm just pointing out if your going to call out one side's ****, be prepared to acknowledge the **** at your end too.

that's mostly how it is in these types of heated discussion, some are always ruder than they should be on both sides.

one poster told me about the gotham impostors DLC multiplayer cosmetic items and how they handled it:
basically there are 200$ worth of cosmetic items that can be also unlocked in-game, the more you play the more you can get. i like that sort of approach if i'm totally honest, early access to unlockable content for people who want to experience it either for time constraints in their lives or because they want to experience it in their first playthrough.

so that got me thinking if that could work on day 1 DLC as well, like after beating ME3 on insanity mode (so the player feels like they earned the content) and the DLC code to download the content appears after the credits as this could be coded  so that it only appears when you get the "insanity run" trophy/achievement (these can be earned offline so it wouldn't be necessary to be online at the time) and it would only appear once per copy so as to not be abused by used copies.

there are bound to be people that don't agree with me on this matter but i'd like to see the feedback to the idea at least.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 26 février 2012 - 05:37 .

[ArkkAngel007]

oto wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

oto wrote...

As it has been stated before, this thread is about:

1.Lots of people upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

Not completely accurate, but that's what happens when you resort to a black and white mentality.

I thought this was poorly handled.  This should have been told to consumers 2-3 months ago, even if they didn't have the actual assets of the DLC prepared for public viewing.  Just letting consumers know ahead that they would be wanting to pay another $10 on the same day as launch would have avoided at least some of this.  But no.  They tried burying the existance of the character when it first leaked out, and then Microsoft leaked out the information at the 2 week mark.  We also haven't been given a straight up answer whether or not the character is in the main game, just vague hints from what has been an unreliable PR department in the past.  He isn't in the script in a way that would designate him as being in the main game, and as the script has been as accurate to the letter, including the new IGN footage, I have doubts.

Yet, while a good number of the opposition such as myself disagree with the handling of the DLC, most people are just upset about not having a Prothean squad member.  They don't care if he's important or not (many of them are upset that he isn't), they just want the Prothean, arguing that he is essential only on the basis that they believe that he should be essential.  There are also the one's in the opposition who refuse to take any criticism and correct flaws in their arguments, and, while I'm not going to be as...direct...as DL mentioned, won't even take in the facts given by the devs, even if they are still being cagey about the details we want to know.

So while there are a few people defending it with the "Bought CE, don't care" explanation and such, many who are against the DLC are just acting like spoiled brats too.

Edit: I realize I didn't express everyone's argument, including all of mine, against this content or for "defending" this content, I'm just pointing out if your going to call out one side's ****, be prepared to acknowledge the **** at your end too.

I didnt call anyone anything... iI just stated how thigs are in this thread.

And soon eaware will regrat upseting "spoiled brats" (as you call them) when they will reap the fruits of this ****storm.

Ok, got it.  I just get annoyed with generalizations.

I call them as they are.  I can understand if he was intended to be important during the actual building of the game and then was removed from that role, but that was all done for good reason back in the pre-production phase of development.  If BioWare didn't find him important enough to focus on in this game like they decided with Cerberus in ME1, that's their call, not ours.

[Dragoonlordz]

oto wrote...

I didnt call anyone anything... iI just stated how thigs are in this thread.

And soon eaware will regrat upseting "spoiled brats" (as you call them) when they will reap the fruits of this ****storm.

Not going to happen. More people are buying their game than those who are stopping buying. If put a ratio on it the ones boycotting to new ones buying will make the boycott ones like like a spec of dust. You have to understand for a company there will always be a billion or more people who are not buying their products spread out all over the world, the ones throwing hands up in air and making threats will just fade into that billion number. All a business cares about if that more people buy each year than leave and that is exactly what is happening with ME3. More people are buying the game in comparison to ME1 and ME2 than those who are shouting and screaming making threats about leaving.

This is simple though not very pretty version of event regarding ME3 currently. As long as the big arrow is going their way why would they regret upsetting you. Your not that important even as a group, your tiny in number (smaller than the arrow that they care most about as a business, the black one).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 février 2012 - 05:41 .

[NoxJuked]

Waiting for my Dota 2 que just checking up on things in here o.o *dance*

[BaronIveagh]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

t going to happen. More people are buying their game than those who are stopping buying. If put a ratio on it the ones boycotting to new ones buying will make the boycott ones like like a spec of dust. You have to understand for a company there will always be a billion or more people who are not buying their products spread out all over the world, the ones throwing hands up in air and making threats will just fade into that billion number. All a business cares about if that more people buy each year than leave and that is exactly what is happening with ME3. More people are buying the game in comparison to ME1 and ME2 than those who are shouting and screaming making threats about leaving.

Um, What exactly do you base this on?  Preorders were half what EA expected.

[oto]

RiouHotaru wrote...

oto wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

oto wrote...

As it has been stated before, this thread is about:

1.Lots of people upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

Except that:

1) Bioware's business model makes sense (He wasn't cut from the game on purpose; only exists at all because he's DLC; not relevant to the plot, just nostalgia and filler)

2) Everyone feels that a) the fact it's day-1 is meaningful (it's really not, even if he was released later, it wouldn't have mattered, they still started working on him post-core game) and that his status as a Prothean MUST make him vital to the advancement of the plot, despite confirmation otherwise.

1. We will see about that.

2. Nothing has been confirmed.

Go check Casey Hudson's Twitter.  He outright states:

"The Prothean character is really cool, but not at all critical to the main story.  ME3 centers on the Reapers, not the Protheans."

and even better?

"For the many who asked, plot arcs of the Protheans and other races are resolved in ME3, not DLC.  This is after all the focus of the story."

It doesn't get more final than that.

I heard that he has pretty huge part in ME3. And why should i believe to company representative that has been lying alot latly.

[BaronIveagh]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Go check Casey Hudson's Twitter.  He outright states:

"The Prothean character is really cool, but not at all critical to the main story.  ME3 centers on the Reapers, not the Protheans."

and even better?

"For the many who asked, plot arcs of the Protheans and other races are resolved in ME3, not DLC.  This is after all the focus of the story."

It doesn't get more final than that.

The problem there is that there has been too much 'careful wording' and 'creative truth telling' for us to belive a word of what he says.

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

t going to happen. More people are buying their game than those who are stopping buying. If put a ratio on it the ones boycotting to new ones buying will make the boycott ones like like a spec of dust. You have to understand for a company there will always be a billion or more people who are not buying their products spread out all over the world, the ones throwing hands up in air and making threats will just fade into that billion number. All a business cares about if that more people buy each year than leave and that is exactly what is happening with ME3. More people are buying the game in comparison to ME1 and ME2 than those who are shouting and screaming making threats about leaving.

Um, What exactly do you base this on?  Preorders were half what EA expected.

They can hope for a billion pre-orders doesnt make a difference at all. I base it on comparison with previous titles how many pre-orders have for ME3. They have more for ME3 than any of the previous ones, they are not on a losing streak here even if their expectations were too high.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 février 2012 - 05:40 .

[BTCentral]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Um, What exactly do you base this on?  Preorders were half what EA expected.

Do you have proof of that? I haven't ever seen EA publicly state what they expected pre-orders to be, but I could have just missed it.

Also, what are you basing pre-order figures on? Because if it's VGChartz this was discussed the other day, they have a history of being inaccurate, do not take digital sales into account and are US only.

Modifié par BTCentral, 26 février 2012 - 05:40 .

[Candidate 88766]

oto wrote...

I heard that he has pretty huge part in ME3. And why should i believe to company representative that has been lying alot latly.

No he hasn't.

[BaronIveagh]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They can hope for a billion pre-orders doesnt make a different. I base it on comparison with previous titles how many pre-orders have for ME3. They have more for ME3 than any of the previous ones, they are not on a losing streak here even if their expectations were too high.

Again, source? 

[oto]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

oto wrote...

I didnt call anyone anything... iI just stated how thigs are in this thread.

And soon eaware will regrat upseting "spoiled brats" (as you call them) when they will reap the fruits of this ****storm.

Not going to happen. More people are buying their game than those who are stopping buying. If put a ratio on it the ones boycotting to new ones buying will make the boycott ones like like a spec of dust. You have to understand for a company there will always be a billion or more people who are not buying their products spread out all over the world, the ones throwing hands up in air and making threats will just fade into that billion number. All a business cares about if that more people buy each year than leave and that is exactly what is happening with ME3. More people are buying the game in comparison to ME1 and ME2 than those who are shouting and screaming making threats about leaving.

This is simple though not very pretty version of event regarding ME3 currently. As long as the big arrow is going their way why would they regret you. Your not that important even as a group, your tiny in number (smaller than the arrow that they care most about as a business).

That chart isextremely inaccurate. Only time will show.

[nitefyre410]

oto wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

oto wrote...

As it has been stated before, this thread is about:

1.Lots of people upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

*snip*

I didnt call anyone anything... iI just stated how thigs are in this thread.

And soon eaware will regrat upseting "spoiled brats" (as you call them) when they will reap the fruits of this ****storm.

  

Ark is right  this a bit more nuaninced that - but I start to get a little  twitchy about having entitled thrown in my face  because I don't lie company buisness pratice and choose keep my money in my poket.  

Still his overall  point stands - It was howl EA  and Bioware handeled  the whole thing from the start  but I always thing that his  been building for a whole between  DA 2 , Origins, bad PR  and   now this ... It was powder keg waiting to go off.  In the end its mostly going to be the model of how they handle things in the future so  when DA 3 hits..expect to see some kind of the same deal.  

I think if  Bioware handled it like  Capcom and planned to and announced that this was going to be release to everyone and the CE buyers got a  redeemable  code. They would skated by with out much blacklash and by the time people noticed.  What could they say... They cut it from the game... "Oh well it was release month later.. we working on it."    

Either way this point they are not going to change or back do  so only you can do  if don't support it is not buy and buy there games used or not all in the future.

The Deed is done... but  got damn it when I look at party screen and that  hole where Prothy  is supposed to be   the eye of my Completionist side is going to twitch.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 26 février 2012 - 05:43 .

[RiouHotaru]

BaronIveagh wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Go check Casey Hudson's Twitter.  He outright states:

"The Prothean character is really cool, but not at all critical to the main story.  ME3 centers on the Reapers, not the Protheans."

and even better?

"For the many who asked, plot arcs of the Protheans and other races are resolved in ME3, not DLC.  This is after all the focus of the story."

It doesn't get more final than that.

The problem there is that there has been too much 'careful wording' and 'creative truth telling' for us to belive a word of what he says.

Hahaha, okay, prove it.  No I'm serious.  Prove it.

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They can hope for a billion pre-orders doesnt make a difference at all. I base it on comparison with previous titles how many pre-orders have for ME3. They have more for ME3 than any of the previous ones, they are not on a losing streak here even if their expectations were too high.

Again, source? 

Look at all preorder charts recorded from VGC to individual retailers.

I also repeat...

They can hope for a billion pre-orders doesnt make a difference at all. 

[oto]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

oto wrote...

I heard that he has pretty huge part in ME3. And why should i believe to company representative that has been lying alot latly.

No he hasn't.

Deny as much as you want. Facts are there.

[RiouHotaru]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They can hope for a billion pre-orders doesnt make a different. I base it on comparison with previous titles how many pre-orders have for ME3. They have more for ME3 than any of the previous ones, they are not on a losing streak here even if their expectations were too high.

Again, source? 

VGchartz or whatever the website is called:

360 preorders were at ~780k

PS3 preorders were at ~130k

PC preorders were at ~80k

For the 360 alone that's over DOUBLE the pre-orders of ME2, and ME2 at least was Bioware's most successful game.

[Dragoonlordz]

oto wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

oto wrote...

I didnt call anyone anything... iI just stated how thigs are in this thread.

And soon eaware will regrat upseting "spoiled brats" (as you call them) when they will reap the fruits of this ****storm.

Not going to happen. More people are buying their game than those who are stopping buying. If put a ratio on it the ones boycotting to new ones buying will make the boycott ones like like a spec of dust. You have to understand for a company there will always be a billion or more people who are not buying their products spread out all over the world, the ones throwing hands up in air and making threats will just fade into that billion number. All a business cares about if that more people buy each year than leave and that is exactly what is happening with ME3. More people are buying the game in comparison to ME1 and ME2 than those who are shouting and screaming making threats about leaving.

This is simple though not very pretty version of event regarding ME3 currently. As long as the big arrow is going their way why would they regret you. Your not that important even as a group, your tiny in number (smaller than the arrow that they care most about as a business).

That chart isextremely inaccurate. Only time will show.

You can't call it inaccurate unless have a more accurate one to counter. You can call it assumption based on limited evidence for example VGC and more but you cannot say it is inaccurate when have no evidence to prove otherwise.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 février 2012 - 05:45 .

[DaJe]

RiouHotaru wrote...

oto wrote...

As it has been stated before, this thread is about:

1.Lots of people upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

Except that:

1) Bioware's business model makes sense (He wasn't cut from the game on purpose; only exists at all because he's DLC; not relevant to the plot, just nostalgia and filler)

2) Everyone feels that a) the fact it's day-1 is meaningful (it's really not, even if he was released later, it wouldn't have mattered, they still started working on him post-core game) and that his status as a Prothean MUST make him vital to the advancement of the plot, despite confirmation otherwise.

*facepalm* Nostalgia and filler? With that argumentation you could cut Tali, Garrus and Liara from the game. Two of them will certainly not be essential, since they can be dead in ME3 form the start.

Where do you draw the line? What is essential what isn't?
Hey lets remove that gun and that armor, and that character and that one and that one and that mission and those weapons...

It is almost fascinating how blind so many gamers are to what is happening. Until it is too late and the businessmodel collapses on it self because games are lifless overstreamlined chunks that only serve as basis for mircrotransactions, that only a few hardcore fans waste all their money on. Games with potential will suffer under that development. Many already have.

There should be a simple rule to avoid all this nonsense. What is finished on launch, is in the game. bam. Then you can make additions, things that are without a doubt extra content.

And yes, the inflation of money should be reflected better in the full price of games, while DLC should not be overpriced in relation.

[Candidate 88766]

oto wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

oto wrote...

I heard that he has pretty huge part in ME3. And why should i believe to company representative that has been lying alot latly.

No he hasn't.

Deny as much as you want. Facts are there.

You accuse him of lying. The onus is on you to prove it.

Saying there's proof is meaningless. Show this proof that he has been 'lying a lot lately'.

Post it here.

If you're willing to assert that he has been lying, and then don't back it up with actual evidence, then your claim can be dismissed without evidence.

[nitefyre410]

RiouHotaru wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Go check Casey Hudson's Twitter.  He outright states:

"The Prothean character is really cool, but not at all critical to the main story.  ME3 centers on the Reapers, not the Protheans."

and even better?

"For the many who asked, plot arcs of the Protheans and other races are resolved in ME3, not DLC.  This is after all the focus of the story."

It doesn't get more final than that.

The problem there is that there has been too much 'careful wording' and 'creative truth telling' for us to belive a word of what he says.

Hahaha, okay, prove it.  No I'm serious.  Prove it.

 

Its not proving anything its about the damn impression their ******  poor PR  and customer relations has left.  Truth or not... customer don;t like double speak and careful wording... It makes  it look like you are lying and hiding something even if you are not.

[ArkkAngel007]

nightcobra8928 wrote...


that's mostly how it is in these types of heated discussion, some are always ruder than they should be on both sides.

one poster told me about the gotham impostors DLC multiplayer cosmetic items and how they handled it:
basically there are 200$ worth of cosmetic items that can be also unlocked in-game, the more you play the more you can get. i like that sort of approach if i'm totally honest, early access to unlockable content for people who want to experience it either for time constraints in their lives or because they want to experience it in their first playthrough.

so that got me thinking if that could work on day 1 DLC as well, like after beating ME3 on insanity mode (so the player feels like they earned the content) and the DLC code to download the content appears after the credits (this could be coded  so that it only appears when you get the "insanity run" trophy/achievement (these can be earned offline so it wouldn't be necessary to be online at the time) and it would only appear once per copy so as to not be abused by used copies.

there are bound to be people that don't agree with me on this matter but i'd like to see the feedback to the idea at least.

Maybe since I'm not a major multiplayer person for both regular retail and MMO games, as I don't have the time to endlessly grind XP and the money to keep paying for new maps and gear to keep up with everyone, but I'm wary with the microtransaction system.  Sure, it's great now, with all the hats and and stuff like that, but when will that turn to getting superior weapons and perks that throw off the balance, thus forcing people to pay if they want to avoid just wasting their time against overwhelming forces from the monetarily endowed.

I know that I won't be downloading the DLC right away if I can avoid it.  I'm doing a single playthrough with the complete experience, and then I'll add in the extra content.  I do this for two reasons.  First, I always try to play the retail experience first to see what the developers intended for me to see the first time around.  Second, when I play through again with the DLC, I get to see if I really missed out on anything the first time around.  If I did, then I can question on why I missed that content in the game.  But if I didn't miss out on anything that the retail doesn't offer in full, then the DLC is just what it is intended to be, auxiiary content.

I do like that after the credit idea though.  That's pretty clever.  That or the code will unlock in the extras menu or something after viewing the credits.

[Tar-Minastir]

oto wrote...

As it has been stated before, this thread is about:

1.Lots of people upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

Group 2 confuses me.

Like I said in another post (and in more detail), if you do not work at bioware/EA or own stock, you have no reason to support them in this controversy. 

A company aims to get the greatest return on the smallest possible investment.  This is perfactly reasonable.  We, as consumers, attempt the reverse.  We want the greatest amount/quality of product for the least cost.  Again, this is perfectly acceptable. Finding the balance is the job of the market.

Thus, no one who plans on buying the game should defend this position b/c they stand to gain either directly through a change in the dlc (not likely) or through different policies in future game releases.

In short, if you are a consumer, don't defend bioware/ea or this dlc model.  You have nothing to gain through championing the cause of someone who is actively trying to take your money for the least effort. 

Modifié par Tar-Minastir, 26 février 2012 - 05:49 .

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

t going to happen. More people are buying their game than those who are stopping buying. If put a ratio on it the ones boycotting to new ones buying will make the boycott ones like like a spec of dust. You have to understand for a company there will always be a billion or more people who are not buying their products spread out all over the world, the ones throwing hands up in air and making threats will just fade into that billion number. All a business cares about if that more people buy each year than leave and that is exactly what is happening with ME3. More people are buying the game in comparison to ME1 and ME2 than those who are shouting and screaming making threats about leaving.

Um, What exactly do you base this on?  Preorders were half what EA expected.

I would guess he is basing this on something we call common sense. Do you honestly think the few fans that are on the forums "boycotting" are honestly going to affect the sales of this game?

Your living in a fantacy world if you think they are.

This game will sell MILLIONS of copies, no matter what you, the boycotters, totalbiscuit, or forbes say.

How do I know this? Well I am a telepath DUH!

[Lufven1]

oto wrote...

As it has been stated before, this thread is about:

1.Lots of people upset about Bioware's shady business model

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

YEP! You are on to something there. Also: