13369 réponses à ce sujet

[ArkkAngel007]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

oto wrote...

Epic comment on youtube
Reapers: EA

Pre Ea Bioware: Protheans

Current Bioware: Collectors
so true though

Pre EA Bioware created dlc by themselves when they were independent , so they certainly were indoctrinated to begin with.EA made the process happen faster when they bought them.

Bioware isn't  innocent because they were testing the waters with the first ME dlc.

There's nothing wrong with DLC in the first place.  Do you think TF2 or L4D would have had the longevity and success without DLC? 

It's the way DLC is handled that is the problem.

[ArkkAngel007]

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
Yeah , but that means somewhere on the disc half of the files were on the disc when it shipped.You have to remember dlc was a slower process vs now.Which means it was planned well in advance of a buyout.

That's a bit of a stretch though.  The enviroments were on the disk, but the actual story mission was cut, and not reused. The only thing that really got recycled was the shootout area at the end.  If they had cut it to make content, they'ed have reused more then they did.

Don't forget the Batarians.  I do believe they were on disc as well.

Could be wrong though.  It's been 4-5 years since I dipped into that.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
Yeah , but that means somewhere on the disc half of the files were on the disc when it shipped.You have to remember dlc was a slower process vs now.Which means it was planned well in advance of a buyout.

That's a bit of a stretch though.  The enviroments were on the disk, but the actual story mission was cut, and not reused. The only thing that really got recycled was the shootout area at the end.  If they had cut it to make content, they'ed have reused more then they did.

Don't forget the Batarians.  I do believe they were on disc as well.

Could be wrong though.  It's been 4-5 years since I dipped into that.

To me their isn't anything wrong.I was just saying to do any form of dlc , half of the files had to be on the disc already.I'm just saying Bioware would have gone the dlc route one way or another , like other companies have done and it wasn't all because of EA buying them.

[LumpOfCole]

I distinctly remember a bunch of Kasumi files being in the final core/code of Mass Effect 2 before the content of her DLC mission fully released. 

Modifié par LumpOfCole, 27 février 2012 - 03:49 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

oto wrote...

Epic comment on youtube
Reapers: EA

Pre Ea Bioware: Protheans

Current Bioware: Collectors
so true though

Pre EA Bioware created dlc by themselves when they were independent , so they certainly were indoctrinated to begin with.EA made the process happen faster when they bought them.

Bioware isn't  innocent because they were testing the waters with the first ME dlc.

There's nothing wrong with DLC in the first place.  Do you think TF2 or L4D would have had the longevity and success without DLC? 

It's the way DLC is handled that is the problem.

But that's thing , most haven't had a problem with the way it was handled.I agree it could have been handled better , but to me it really wasn't bad at all.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

LumpOfCole wrote...

I distinctly remember a bunch of Kasumi files being in the final core/code of Mass Effect 2 before the content of her DLC mission fully released. 

I remember this too , because their were youtube videos guessing to who she might be and what was her role.Then someone found voice files for her and next thing you know Kasumi dlc arrives.

[ArkkAngel007]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

LumpOfCole wrote...

I distinctly remember a bunch of Kasumi files being in the final core/code of Mass Effect 2 before the content of her DLC mission fully released. 

I remember this too , because their were youtube videos guessing to who she might be and what was her role.Then someone found voice files for her and next thing you know Kasumi dlc arrives.

I think didymos is our resident specialist on that matter.  I never went into the ME2 files myself due to his work.

[Fenix Hero]

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game, it isn't game changing DLC it is pretty much cosmetic which is understandable. You get a new race, new gun, alternate outfits for everyone, and a mission. Not having this is not going to gimp your game or even give you a large advantage. Riot (League of Legends) makes a killing on cosmetic things for their characters but it doesn't make the characters any better. New champion is released you can buy for whatever amount of points and then buy the skins with money. With "From Ashes" you are getting additional content, not content that is part of the main story or directly affecting your story. People say you shouldn't have to pay for cosmetic things for the game, in that case xbox users return your Avatar items (I know you can't, using it as an example), the shirts, little pet things, pants, hats, helmets, people pay for those. Stop whining, Mass Effect 3 is finally coming out, BE HAPPY!

[Dragoonlordz]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

LumpOfCole wrote...

I distinctly remember a bunch of Kasumi files being in the final core/code of Mass Effect 2 before the content of her DLC mission fully released. 

I remember this too , because their were youtube videos guessing to who she might be and what was her role.Then someone found voice files for her and next thing you know Kasumi dlc arrives.

Kasumi's soft voice... <3

[BaronIveagh]

Fenix Hero wrote...

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game, it isn't game changing DLC it is pretty much cosmetic which is understandable. You get a new race, new gun, alternate outfits for everyone, and a mission. Not having this is not going to gimp your game or even give you a large advantage. Riot (League of Legends) makes a killing on cosmetic things for their characters but it doesn't make the characters any better. New champion is released you can buy for whatever amount of points and then buy the skins with money. With "From Ashes" you are getting additional content, not content that is part of the main story or directly affecting your story. People say you shouldn't have to pay for cosmetic things for the game, in that case xbox users return your Avatar items (I know you can't, using it as an example), the shirts, little pet things, pants, hats, helmets, people pay for those. Stop whining, Mass Effect 3 is finally coming out, BE HAPPY!

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 27 février 2012 - 04:05 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Fenix Hero wrote...

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game, it isn't game changing DLC it is pretty much cosmetic which is understandable. You get a new race, new gun, alternate outfits for everyone, and a mission. Not having this is not going to gimp your game or even give you a large advantage. Riot (League of Legends) makes a killing on cosmetic things for their characters but it doesn't make the characters any better. New champion is released you can buy for whatever amount of points and then buy the skins with money. With "From Ashes" you are getting additional content, not content that is part of the main story or directly affecting your story. People say you shouldn't have to pay for cosmetic things for the game, in that case xbox users return your Avatar items (I know you can't, using it as an example), the shirts, little pet things, pants, hats, helmets, people pay for those. Stop whining, Mass Effect 3 is finally coming out, BE HAPPY!

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

They did not forget it, for two reasons really. First like previously mentioned and you acknowledge exposition desired differs from person to person, there is no line in the sand they can draw to please everyone. Secondly there will be many more story and other DLC over the life time of this title, they are in the same situation with example of one as they will be with ten released. All will add to the story and all will provide various context.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 février 2012 - 04:10 .

[LumpOfCole]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Fenix Hero wrote...

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game, it isn't game changing DLC it is pretty much cosmetic which is understandable. You get a new race, new gun, alternate outfits for everyone, and a mission. Not having this is not going to gimp your game or even give you a large advantage. Riot (League of Legends) makes a killing on cosmetic things for their characters but it doesn't make the characters any better. New champion is released you can buy for whatever amount of points and then buy the skins with money. With "From Ashes" you are getting additional content, not content that is part of the main story or directly affecting your story. People say you shouldn't have to pay for cosmetic things for the game, in that case xbox users return your Avatar items (I know you can't, using it as an example), the shirts, little pet things, pants, hats, helmets, people pay for those. Stop whining, Mass Effect 3 is finally coming out, BE HAPPY!

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

Even though the DLC character is a certain race, it could simply be the Conrad Verner of that certain race. Or the Blasto of that certain race. Or the Warcraft II Peon of that particular race. Let's at least see this character's influence on the game's story and how important he is to the core narrative before we accuse Bioware of forgetting the fundamental lesson of story writing.

[AlanC9]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...
I wonder how many people would have bought the original Mass Effect had it's 'optional' content been sold as additional content on release day?

- Planetary exploration and the side missions that accompany it: Optional
- Additional Armor found throughout the game: Optional
- Additional Weapons found throughout the game: Optional
- Armor and Weapon Upgrades: Optional
- Cutsomizable Commander Shepard: Optional
- Dialogue and Outcome Altering Choices: Optional
- Wrex, Garrus and Liara and any missions directly associated with them: Optional
- Various Game Difficulty Settings: Optional
- Anything in the Options/Settings Menu: Optional

Starting to look like a pretty bare-bones game, isn't it?

Yep. But since nobody would buy that game, nobody's going to try to sell such a game.

[_symphony]

Fenix Hero wrote...

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game

Maybe you don't see that he's a prothean, and that alone is a big deal.  Sure, he's incosequential, but just because what he is many fans will want him and feel that the game can't be complete without him and feel cheated because they have to dish out another 10 bucks in the game launch.

Modifié par _symphony, 27 février 2012 - 04:18 .

[BaronIveagh]

AlanC9 wrote...
Yep. But since nobody would buy that game, nobody's going to try to sell such a game.

A lot of people did, it was called Dragon Age 2.

[stargatefan1990]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Fenix Hero wrote...

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game, it isn't game changing DLC it is pretty much cosmetic which is understandable. You get a new race, new gun, alternate outfits for everyone, and a mission. Not having this is not going to gimp your game or even give you a large advantage. Riot (League of Legends) makes a killing on cosmetic things for their characters but it doesn't make the characters any better. New champion is released you can buy for whatever amount of points and then buy the skins with money. With "From Ashes" you are getting additional content, not content that is part of the main story or directly affecting your story. People say you shouldn't have to pay for cosmetic things for the game, in that case xbox users return your Avatar items (I know you can't, using it as an example), the shirts, little pet things, pants, hats, helmets, people pay for those. Stop whining, Mass Effect 3 is finally coming out, BE HAPPY!

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

They did not forget it, for two reasons really. First like previously mentioned and you acknowledge exposition desired differs from person to person, there is no line in the sand they can draw to please everyone. Secondly there will be many more story and other DLC over the life time of this title, they are in the same situation with example of one as they will be with ten released. All will add to the story and all will provide various context.

and my wallet is ready for them all bioware could see me coming lol jkjk tbh lo ive never bought DLC outside bioware games not on purpouse or anything its the quality of the DLC

[Dragoonlordz]

stargatefan1990 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Fenix Hero wrote...

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game, it isn't game changing DLC it is pretty much cosmetic which is understandable. You get a new race, new gun, alternate outfits for everyone, and a mission. Not having this is not going to gimp your game or even give you a large advantage. Riot (League of Legends) makes a killing on cosmetic things for their characters but it doesn't make the characters any better. New champion is released you can buy for whatever amount of points and then buy the skins with money. With "From Ashes" you are getting additional content, not content that is part of the main story or directly affecting your story. People say you shouldn't have to pay for cosmetic things for the game, in that case xbox users return your Avatar items (I know you can't, using it as an example), the shirts, little pet things, pants, hats, helmets, people pay for those. Stop whining, Mass Effect 3 is finally coming out, BE HAPPY!

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

They did not forget it, for two reasons really. First like previously mentioned and you acknowledge exposition desired differs from person to person, there is no line in the sand they can draw to please everyone. Secondly there will be many more story and other DLC over the life time of this title, they are in the same situation with example of one as they will be with ten released. All will add to the story and all will provide various context.

and my wallet is ready for them all bioware could see me coming lol jkjk tbh lo ive never bought DLC outside bioware games not on purpouse or anything its the quality of the DLC

Ditto with the buying part. I buy only and always story content DLC. Weapons, outfits and such I never purchase. But story... Always every time, no exceptions. The quality does not matter so much to me as long as the content provided is story based.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 février 2012 - 04:22 .

[stargatefan1990]

yes same here on the story DLC front looking forward to all the new missions and reasons to Replay and i havent even played the main game yet lol i might aswell give bioware my bank account info lol jkjk

Modifié par stargatefan1990, 27 février 2012 - 04:35 .

[ZX12r Ninja]

BaronIveagh wrote...

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

So what you're saying is that you didn't watch the movie but yet you know the story.

And uuum...

LoTR Theatrical Edition, Etended Edition. Difference in all 3 movies is that they come with upto 50 mins of extra footage.

Avatar Director's cut, 15 mins extra footage.

Aliens Director's cut had 17 mins of extra footage.

Robocop Director's Cut had 13 mins of extra footage, mostly gore added in.

etc.

etc.

etc,

What was this about fundementals of story writing?

[stargatefan1990]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

So what you're saying is that you didn't watch the movie but yet you know the story.

And uuum...

LoTR Theatrical Edition, Etended Edition. Difference in all 3 movies is that they come with upto 50 mins of extra footage.

Avatar Director's cut, 15 mins extra footage.

Aliens Director's cut had 17 mins of extra footage.

Robocop Director's Cut had 13 mins of extra footage, mostly gore added in.

etc.

etc.

etc,

What was this about fundementals of story writing?

exactly all of the extended footage is fan service like DLC but not needed to understand the story and sort ot LOTR Extended editions are soo worth it

[ZX12r Ninja]

stargatefan1990 wrote...

exactly all of the extended footage is fan service like DLC but not needed to understand the story and sort ot LOTR Extended editions are soo worth it

Not just that, removing or adding something from a story shouldn't matter as long as the whole achieves what it set out todo. If removing a character would matter where dafuq is Tom Bombadil then? To Tolkien Tom was important, heck JJR even made a seperate book. This is what Jackson had to say when asked why he removed him.

http://www.imdb.com/...0737/faq#.2.1.1

Jackson has said that he purposefully left Tom Bombadil out of the film
because he felt that Tom's meeting with the travelling hobbits did not
advance the story, but rather held it up. It is possible to remove
Bombadil from the story completely without affecting any later events.
Another factor is that after trying very hard to convince the audience
that the Ring corrupts everyone and is dangerous, Tom is seen to be
apparently immune, reducing the threat of the Ring. However, in a small
nod to Tom Bombadil, Treebeard uses Bombadil's incantation to save Merry
(Dominic Monaghan) and Pippin (Billy Boyd) when they become trapped by the roots of an old tree in Fangorn Forest.

And you know what the response was coming out the theather?

Some self important arcane-knowledge entheusiast saying: Hey they left Tom out! *OUTRAGE*
Rest of the people: Meh... was good movie. /care

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 27 février 2012 - 04:53 .

[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...
I wonder how many people would have bought the original Mass Effect had it's 'optional' content been sold as additional content on release day?

- Planetary exploration and the side missions that accompany it: Optional
- Additional Armor found throughout the game: Optional
- Additional Weapons found throughout the game: Optional
- Armor and Weapon Upgrades: Optional
- Cutsomizable Commander Shepard: Optional
- Dialogue and Outcome Altering Choices: Optional
- Wrex, Garrus and Liara and any missions directly associated with them: Optional
- Various Game Difficulty Settings: Optional
- Anything in the Options/Settings Menu: Optional

Starting to look like a pretty bare-bones game, isn't it?

Yep. But since nobody would buy that game, nobody's going to try to sell such a game.

The problem is,  that's where this road is leading.  You don't really think they'll stop here were this to work do you?  Publisher's primary goal isn't to make great games,  it's to maximize revenue.  As I said in another thread,  the Publisher is a parasitic presence that does not contribute to the game,  but instead dictates what will be made and how. 

EA's goal is not to make the best possible Mass Effect 3,  EA's goal is to make you pay the most they can to buy Mass Effect 3,  and if they think they can get away wit ala carting all of that stuff out,  they won't hesitate for a moment.

I mean seriously,  we're already talking about a game with over $500 worth of DLC,  no small amount of it attached to things there's no valid reason for it to be attached to.

So what you're saying is that you didn't watch the movie but yet you know the story.

And uuum...

LoTR Theatrical Edition, Etended Edition. Difference in all 3 movies is that they come with upto 50 mins of extra footage.

Avatar Director's cut, 15 mins extra footage.

Aliens Director's cut had 17 mins of extra footage.

Robocop Director's Cut had 13 mins of extra footage, mostly gore added in.

etc.

etc.

etc,

What was this about fundementals of story writing?

The only way your comparison works is if the theaters showed a black screen during those scenes unless you paid $10 extra after you already bought your ticket.  That would be the equivalent of Day 1 DLC.

Because otherwise,  what you're talking about is post-release DLC compared to post-release movie versions.  Which I think you'll find everyone on this thread was much more ok with.

[ZX12r Ninja]

Gatt9 wrote...

The only way your comparison works is if the theaters showed a black screen during those scenes unless you paid $10 extra after you already bought your ticket.  That would be the equivalent of Day 1 DLC.

Because otherwise,  what you're talking about is post-release DLC compared to post-release movie versions.  Which I think you'll find everyone on this thread was much more ok with.

Are they planning on showing a black screen in the game for the people who didn't buy the DLC? People are talking about content made before release, which gets removed and sold to you later on as an extra. Director's cut is the same thing.

And please, if you're going to reply, reply in context.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 27 février 2012 - 05:05 .

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Fenix Hero wrote...

I honestly don't see what the big deal, you don't NEED the DLC to complete the game, it isn't game changing DLC it is pretty much cosmetic which is understandable. You get a new race, new gun, alternate outfits for everyone, and a mission. Not having this is not going to gimp your game or even give you a large advantage. Riot (League of Legends) makes a killing on cosmetic things for their characters but it doesn't make the characters any better. New champion is released you can buy for whatever amount of points and then buy the skins with money. With "From Ashes" you are getting additional content, not content that is part of the main story or directly affecting your story. People say you shouldn't have to pay for cosmetic things for the game, in that case xbox users return your Avatar items (I know you can't, using it as an example), the shirts, little pet things, pants, hats, helmets, people pay for those. Stop whining, Mass Effect 3 is finally coming out, BE HAPPY!

As I've said, the difference is that to some people they're not completing the game, thy're completing the story, and when it comes to stories, the importance of various characters and events varies from person to person. 

I find it mildly ironic that bioware forgot this rather fundimental lesson of story writing.

They didn't, thats why he is a character. They're worried about the main game's story first, then the background story second. The story is HUGE part of the game don't get me wrong. But the actual prothean is non essential to the game, hense why if you care about background story like myself, hes just a little extra optional treat. (which I LOVE btw, so excited!)

Modifié par GME_ThorianCreeper, 27 février 2012 - 05:05 .

[BaronIveagh]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

So what you're saying is that you didn't watch the movie but yet you know the story.

And uuum...

LoTR Theatrical Edition, Etended Edition. Difference in all 3 movies is that they come with upto 50 mins of extra footage.

Avatar Director's cut, 15 mins extra footage.

Aliens Director's cut had 17 mins of extra footage.

Robocop Director's Cut had 13 mins of extra footage, mostly gore added in.

What was this about fundementals of story writing?

Yes, but splicing in 15 min of gore is not the same thing as an additional character.

And, let me counter with Kingdom of Heaven (Directors Cut)

Or, better:

Blade Runner (The Final Cut) The addition and subtraction of content told the same story, but cast the characters in a very different light.  By your definition they should have been nearly the same, but they are very much not.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 27 février 2012 - 05:11 .