13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Xellana]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Xellana wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Fenris447 wrote...

I just don't understand where everyone gets this idea that they're entitled to anything. You don't have a RIGHT to the content. You buy your right to it. If $10 is too much for you, you don't get the content. Can someone tell me why they deserve the content at whatever price THEY want?

I think it comes from standards that exist in certain branches of the economy.
In the example of PC video games the standard price for a newly released game with all its content is (in europe) 40-50 Euro.
If you want to buy Mass Effect 3 with all its content when it is released you have to pay either 60 Euro (SE+DLC) or 75 Euro (CE).

People feel "entitled" (horrible word by the way), because it is against the standard in the video game branche.

But entitled best describes what is going on.It's like a kid who receives a dollar from someone every time they see this person , when the next time they see this person they get a pat on head and no dollar.Their going to be wondering what the heck is going on and where's my dollar I usually get.

Yeah but entitled seems to strong of a word. Entitled sounds like there is a law or something that gives them the right to it. They don´t believe that. They know that bioware/ea can charge whatever they want for whatever they want.

They could charge 10000 Dollar for the game and another 1000 for the DLC. You wouldn´t be entitled to get the game any cheaper then, too.

They just think that it is wrong what bioware/ea are doing here and that business should not be conducted this way.

Do they ? , because it seems most are upset their charging for this.To me that suggests they don't know EA can charge for content.

Yeah, they do. They know that bioware can charge for content as much as they want, as I said. But they don´t understand why it´s okay for bioware/ea to charge 20% more for their content at the moment the game is released than 99% of all other developers/publishers.

Modifié par Xellana, 27 février 2012 - 09:19 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

But entitled best describes what is going on.It's like a kid who receives a dollar from someone every time they see this person , when the next time they see this person they get a pat on the head and no dollar.Their going to be wondering what the heck is going on and where's my dollar I usually get(Entitlement).

Except that's a poor analogy because we are the ones spending the money. It's like paying someone to mow your lawn, but because there's a new patch of grass, they expect you to shell out 10% more money on top of the raise you just gave him.

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

So far very few people have a problem with this , most simply don't care about prothean.

Right, because clearly a handful of people got this thread to the number of pages it has now...

For the most part yes along with people saying they had no problem.

[DOZAH]

AlanC9 wrote...

So "console gamer" doesn't have anything do to with actually being a console gamer? Why on earth do you want to define "console gamer" the way you're defining it? Words have meanings, you know.

As for unannounced price hike, nonsense. We've known there was going to be a DLC character and mission for months.

That leaves pricing. I simply don't care how the money that console gamers pay (actual console gamers, that is) is divided up between EA and the console manufacturers. I'm going to pay my $60 or so to Amazon; how they divide that money with EA isn't my concern either. If I did care, I might be more likely to go digital download, but I don't care.

A console gamer has lower standards.  They don't get the best quality experience.  They don't care if they get nickled and dimed to death from Microsoft and Sony.  They are willing to tolerate more degradating treatment because they simply aren't aware of it.  That is the nature of consoles, to not think, to not know, to not care, to just put in the disc and play.  A console is a toy.

A PC is like a companion.  A PC owner cares about what programs are running on their machine, how much memory they will use, and what resources are allocated where.  We have to be aware of a multitude of factors that never occur in the console space; incompatibilites, system requirements, etc.  We HAVE to care because if we don't most of the times our games won't even work.  We want and we've paid for the requirements to have the absolute best possible experience and not to have to deal with shady companies who want to dole out content piecemeal.

Your attitude of nonchalance clearly indicated which group you belong to.

Speaking of awareness.  People on these forums might have had adequate foreknowledge of what shennanigans were planned to take place well in advance of the release.  To the general gaming public at large, I would guess most are still unaware.  If you look at the circles of influence in the gaming population, there's the uber hardcore who frequent a developers own's boards constantly, there's the semi-hardcore who frequents sites occasionally and learns what they need when they need to, and there's the casual who is completely clueless what is entailed until the game has already been bought and paid for.  We're looking now at the outpouring of dissent from only the first two groups, which I would estimate to guess is smaller combined than the third.  The general public, as it were, is still unaware.  The fallout has only yet begun.

[nightcobra]

The way i see it between consumers and developers/publishers is not unlike an unending tug of war.
both sides want to win the advantage on this tug of war, the best deal as it were.

Sometimes one of the sides helps the other by lending some rope, if this happens on the developers/publishers side is when they want to reward the consumers by giving them a better deal for a lower/no price, if this happens on the consumers side is when the fanbase is loyal enough and willing to buy more of the products even if overpriced.

However when each side pulls the other too hard you risk disaster for both sides, if the publishers/developers side pulls too hard and the opposing side, the consumers, "lose" the developers/publishers passed the breaking point and made their customers lose faith in their business practices losing them in the process.

If it were the consumers side to pull hard enough, the developers/publishers would lose the tug of war on the account of losing money and ultimately filing for bankrupcy making them unable to create the products their fanbase loves so much.


That's at least my perspective on things and as for me personally think that right now the rope's length is longer on the developers/publishers side and as such i'll pull harder in order to try and stabilize it.
others may see it differently however and i respect that.



One poster told me about the gotham impostors DLC multiplayer cosmetic items and how they handled it:
basically there are 200$ worth of cosmetic items that can be also unlocked in-game if i'm not mistaken, the more you play the more you can get. i like that sort of approach if i'm totally honest, early access to unlockable content for people who want to experience it either for time constraints in their lives or because they want to experience it in their first playthrough.

So that got me thinking if that could work on day 1 DLC as well, like after beating ME3 on insanity mode (so the player feels like they earned the content) and the DLC code to download the content appears after the credits as this could be coded so that it only appears when you get the "insanity run" trophy/achievement (these can be earned offline so it wouldn't be necessary to be online at the time) and it would only appear once per copy so as to not be abused by used copies.

There are bound to be people that don't agree with me on this matter but i'd like to see the feedback to the idea at least.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 27 février 2012 - 09:19 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Xellana wrote...

Yeah, they do. They know that bioware can charge for content as much as they want, as I said. But they don´t understand why it´s okay for bioware/ea to charge 20% more for their content at the moment the game is released than 99% of all other developers/publishers.

Because it happened to be ready by the time of the launch date and they figured why wait if it's finshed for people to get him who couldn't get a CE.

[Aulis Vaara]

Fenris447 wrote...

After all the money that I've sunk into Chicken McNuggets since 1989, McDonald's is perfectly okay with thanking me by asking me to pay three dollars more for Chicken Selects that certainly looks like it was cut from the same chicken (even if it wasn't, it still LOOKS like that). It's just a slap in the face of a long-time fan of chicken. It's McDonald's saying: "We know you will pay money for chicken, so we'll ask you to."

EDIT: I hope my point wasn't lost there. Just because you've bought products before from a company, they still have the right to charge for additional products.

Do I really have to point out the different between intellectual property and actual limited resources?

You don't have a point, precisely because of the analogy used.

[MissOuJ]

DOZAH wrote...

A console gamer has lower standards.  They don't get the best quality experience.  They don't care if they get nickled and dimed to death from Microsoft and Sony.  They are willing to tolerate more degradating treatment because they simply aren't aware of it.  That is the nature of consoles, to not think, to not know, to not care, to just put in the disc and play.  A console is a toy.

A PC is like a companion.  A PC owner cares about what programs are running on their machine, how much memory they will use, and what resources are allocated where.  We have to be aware of a multitude of factors that never occur in the console space; incompatibilites, system requirements, etc.  We HAVE to care because if we don't most of the times our games won't even work.  We want and we've paid for the requirements to have the absolute best possible experience and not to have to deal with shady companies who want to dole out content piecemeal.

Your attitude of nonchalance clearly indicated which group you belong to.

Watch it! You might break your neck if you happened to fall off such a high horse...

BTW, how's the view?

Modifié par MissOuJ, 27 février 2012 - 09:25 .

[obie191970]

DOZAH wrote...
A console gamer has lower standards.  They don't get the best quality experience.  They don't care if they get nickled and dimed to death from Microsoft and Sony.  They are willing to tolerate more degradating treatment because they simply aren't aware of it.  That is the nature of consoles, to not think, to not know, to not care, to just put in the disc and play.  A console is a toy.

A PC is like a companion.  A PC owner cares about what programs are running on their machine, how much memory they will use, and what resources are allocated where.  We have to be aware of a multitude of factors that never occur in the console space; incompatibilites, system requirements, etc.  We HAVE to care because if we don't most of the times our games won't even work.  We want and we've paid for the requirements to have the absolute best possible experience and not to have to deal with shady companies who want to dole out content piecemeal.

Your attitude of nonchalance clearly indicated which group you belong to.

Speaking of awareness.  People on these forums might have had adequate foreknowledge of what shennanigans were planned to take place well in advance of the release.  To the general gaming public at large, I would guess most are still unaware.  If you look at the circles of influence in the gaming population, there's the uber hardcore who frequent a developers own's boards constantly, there's the semi-hardcore who frequents sites occasionally and learns what they need when they need to, and there's the casual who is completely clueless what is entailed until the game has already been bought and paid for.  We're looking now at the outpouring of dissent from only the first two groups, which I would estimate to guess is smaller combined than the third.  The general public, as it were, is still unaware.  The fallout has only yet begun.

This is the biggest load of crap I have seen through all 468 pages of this thread.  And, I'm a PC and console gamer.

[Xellana]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Yeah, they do. They know that bioware can charge for content as much as they want, as I said. But they don´t understand why it´s okay for bioware/ea to charge 20% more for their content at the moment the game is released than 99% of all other developers/publishers.

Because it happened to be ready by the time of the launch date and they figured why wait if it's finshed for people to get him who couldn't get a CE.

That´s the point of those who argue against it. If it happens to be ready by the time of launch it should be included in the game if I pay the standard of a full price game.

[CommanderCoffee]

DOZAH wrote...

A console gamer has lower standards.  They don't get the best quality experience.  They don't care if they get nickled and dimed to death from Microsoft and Sony.  They are willing to tolerate more degradating treatment because they simply aren't aware of it.  That is the nature of consoles, to not think, to not know, to not care, to just put in the disc and play.  A console is a toy.

A PC is like a companion.  A PC owner cares about what programs are running on their machine, how much memory they will use, and what resources are allocated where.  We have to be aware of a multitude of factors that never occur in the console space; incompatibilites, system requirements, etc.  We HAVE to care because if we don't most of the times our games won't even work.  We want and we've paid for the requirements to have the absolute best possible experience and not to have to deal with shady companies who want to dole out content piecemeal.

Your attitude of nonchalance clearly indicated which group you belong to.

Wow. Um, I'm a PC gamer, but I gotta say, I thought the whole, "PC MASTER RACE" stereotype was just a stereotype. Now I know that to be false. 

A console is a toy? Really? Consoles are getting more and more like computers. PS3s and XBoxes come with internet browsing software and easy networking capabilities. Arguably, because of that, they're more user friendly than your average PC. Remember the whole, "Old people can't use PCs" stereotype? Consoles don't get that as much. Especially with the point-and-click interface of the Wii.

Meteorology dictates that winds are stronger higher up. Hope you have a good safety harness.

[obie191970]

Xellana wrote...

That´s the point of those who argue against it. If it happens to be ready by the time of launch it should be included in the game if I pay the standard of a full price game.

Then you'd have the CE owners up in arms.  Bioware puts themselves in a lose-lose situation.

[_symphony]

MissOuJ wrote...
Except it has been done before. Google the Humble Indie Bundle. Pay what you want, free of all DRM, works on multiple operating systems...

Then google how many people have cracked it and put it on file sharing sites just for the **** of it. Apparently even 1 cent is too much for some people to pay for being able to play games other people have worked hard to create... So no, doesn't work, unfortunatedly.

Nice way of seeing the glass half empty, don't mention the people that did care and the success of the bundles. So is not perfect, but it did work.

[DOZAH]

MissOuJ wrote...


BTW, how's the view?

It's nice.  I put myself here after I saw what was becoming of Microsoft and Sony's efforts to be more like Wii.  Never going back.

I might have said it harshly, but most of the meanings I conveyed would be freely admitted to by most console gamers.  That's why they play on consoles, because it's easier and they don't have to think.  That's the consoles only real advantage, and you can deny it all you want and call me elitist, but you know it's true. 

Also, convinient of many to neglect this part of the post:

Speaking of awareness. People on these forums might have had adequate foreknowledge of what shennanigans were planned to take place well in advance of the release. To the general gaming public at large, I would guess most are still unaware. If you look at the circles of influence in the gaming population, there's the uber hardcore who frequent a developers own's boards constantly, there's the semi-hardcore who frequents sites occasionally and learns what they need when they need to, and there's the casual who is completely clueless what is entailed until the game has already been bought and paid for. We're looking now at the outpouring of dissent from only the first two groups, which I would estimate to guess is smaller combined than the third. The general public, as it were, is still unaware. The fallout has only yet begun.

 
which entirely dismantles the 'they told us about it, therefore it's ok' argument.

Modifié par DOZAH, 27 février 2012 - 09:38 .

[tasan]

You know I think the problem lies in the fact that people do not understand that the collector's edition people are actually paying more. roughly 80 dollars (in the U.S.) as opposed to 60 for the standard edition + 10 for Ashes and the other DLC which equals 70 dollars. If anything the CE people are merely paying ahead of time for the DLC while paying an additional 10 dollars for N7 patches, soundtrack, and a mini-artbook.

Why is there even a problem with this right now? Both SE and CE still are paying for the Ashes DLC...hell if you pre-order the SE from amazon you get a 10 dollar credit which you can then use for the Ashes DLC and only have to pay 60 dollars while the collector's edition people have to pay 80. Sure you lose ability of pre-order items but those will likely get sold later on since this is the "last" mass effect game and Bioware will effectively wish to milk us as much as they can.

I mean hell if it weren't for the fact I want the soundtrack I could save money by simply buying the SE + the 10 dollar DLC. Could save 10 dollars. But no I think the soundtrack, artbook, and whatever else is worth paying 10 more dollars.

People who think a Prothean should be in the main game how much is a single slightly insane (suicidal would be hilarious) Prothean actually going to help in the long run? It's not like they are releasing the DLC way down the road but if you want him you can buy him immediately. Or you can leave it be.

On one final note was the game not delayed from the original perceived release date? Is it not possible that From the Ashes DLC was actually going to be released after the game was released and had started creation way back then but just happened to finish around the same time as the game's new release was to be?

I really don't understand the problem. if anything other companies are a whole lot worse off than Bioware with their own DLC policies.

[Xellana]

obie191970 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

That´s the point of those who argue against it. If it happens to be ready by the time of launch it should be included in the game if I pay the standard of a full price game.

Then you'd have the CE owners up in arms.  Bioware puts themselves in a lose-lose situation.

yep. 100% agreement there. Bioware/EA really put themselves in an awkward spot.
And I guess they are not happy with the situation at the moment but they can´t do anything about it now.

[Zannana]

obie191970 wrote...

DOZAH wrote...
A console gamer has lower standards.  They don't get the best quality experience.  They don't care if they get nickled and dimed to death from Microsoft and Sony.  They are willing to tolerate more degradating treatment because they simply aren't aware of it.  That is the nature of consoles, to not think, to not know, to not care, to just put in the disc and play.  A console is a toy.

A PC is like a companion.  A PC owner cares about what programs are running on their machine, how much memory they will use, and what resources are allocated where.  We have to be aware of a multitude of factors that never occur in the console space; incompatibilites, system requirements, etc.  We HAVE to care because if we don't most of the times our games won't even work.  We want and we've paid for the requirements to have the absolute best possible experience and not to have to deal with shady companies who want to dole out content piecemeal.

Your attitude of nonchalance clearly indicated which group you belong to.

Speaking of awareness.  People on these forums might have had adequate foreknowledge of what shennanigans were planned to take place well in advance of the release.  To the general gaming public at large, I would guess most are still unaware.  If you look at the circles of influence in the gaming population, there's the uber hardcore who frequent a developers own's boards constantly, there's the semi-hardcore who frequents sites occasionally and learns what they need when they need to, and there's the casual who is completely clueless what is entailed until the game has already been bought and paid for.  We're looking now at the outpouring of dissent from only the first two groups, which I would estimate to guess is smaller combined than the third.  The general public, as it were, is still unaware.  The fallout has only yet begun.

This is the biggest load of crap I have seen through all 468 pages of this thread.  And, I'm a PC and console gamer.

I have to say that I am appaled and very displeased with demeaning comments aimed at the console gamers both here and in the internet in general. I never thought such racism existed but now I am discovering that it does. I am using such a strong word because this is not an argument of preferances and better performance but in a way targets the consumers as people. No matter how strange some people may find it, not everyone has the amount of money required to keep a hightech PC in shape. The consoles are cheaper no matter how you look at it and that makes them more popular and the reason why games are primarily aimed at them, they have a wider audience. I don't see why there should be bashing of those people who do not want to spend a good portion of their money to have a pc when they can enjoy their games cheaper and in some cases easier (DRM).

I will not go into pros and cons of PC and consoles as there is no real point to do so, especially in this thread.

As for the DLC...previous experience has taught us that no dlc is necessary to enjoy the game and you dont really miss out on much if you dont buy it. Asside from the Shadow broker and Arrival none of the ME2 DLCs held any real interest for me and the chars that came with some of them where mediocre at best since you couldnt really interact with them. So, buy or not it is your choice and between you, your mentality and your wallet, Bioware is making available to you though, even if you didnt buy the CE and I dont think you should be complaining for that.

On the other hand, this is the BSN and some people here tend to be overly critical and whine for almost anything.

[PeaRLoFJaM]

I must admit that $10 seems a little steep for content that isn't "crucial" to the story. Five would seem a friendlier and more deserved price for an unimportant character. But reading people use terms like "Bioware owes us" or " we deserve" is disheartening and a sign of the times I guess. I happen to dislike day 1 DLC as well but that practice is here to stay. In the near future you won't have to worry about it as much, though, you will have to pay more for the game at launch; it will be an all encompassing DLC pass one can purchase for an extra 30 dollars or so. A la carte gaming is not going away, it will just become more and more essential to those wanting to play a game with all of its bells and whistles.

[CommanderCoffee]

Zannana wrote...


I have to say that I am appaled and very displeased with demeaning comments aimed at the console gamers both here and in the internet in general. I never thought such racism existed 

Oh, no. Don't call it racism. Racism is based on ethnicity. Call it discrimination, which is prejudice based on the group status of somebody.

[MissOuJ]

_symphony wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...
Except it has been done before. Google the Humble Indie Bundle. Pay what you want, free of all DRM, works on multiple operating systems...

Then google how many people have cracked it and put it on file sharing sites just for the **** of it. Apparently even 1 cent is too much for some people to pay for being able to play games other people have worked hard to create... So no, doesn't work, unfortunatedly.

Nice way of seeing the glass half empty, don't mention the people that did care and the success of the bundles. So is not perfect, but it did work.

Doesn't make cracking and pirating it any better. Also, good luck trying to justify it to the board:

"Well, yes, dear shareholders, we're aware most people are going to pay peanuts for this thing we're sunk huge number of manhours to. Also, we know it's quite impossible to predict revenue streams with this mechanic in place, and on top of that we have to consider the number of lost sales because of piracy.

But atleast we're going to get good rep and make (some) of our customers happy!"

This might work for indie developers, but for big companies who're behing the huge, expansive RPG that I love, that's not an option.

Again, I like my games, especially BioWare games, and am willing to pay for them. Anyone who feels otherwise is free to disagree, but it still doesn't make Day-1 DLC morally bad or evil or unethical.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 27 février 2012 - 09:43 .

[DOZAH]

dirty console peasants are dirty. nosce te ipsum. accept it, embrace it, move on.

DLC itself is a console invention.  Only putting the blame where it lies, yes?

Modifié par DOZAH, 27 février 2012 - 09:47 .

[tez19]

BIOWARE IN STEEP DECLINE!

[obie191970]

DOZAH wrote...
I might have said it harshly, but most of the meanings I conveyed would be freely admitted to by most console gamers.  That's why they play on consoles, because it's easier and they don't have to think.  That's the consoles only real advantage, and you can deny it all you want and call me elitist, but you know it's true.  

Ummm, no.  I do it because it's more comfortable on the couch than sitting at my desk..  I'll make that sacrifice for certain games I can't get on console like The Witcher and Diablo, but to me it isn't worth it on multi-platform games for a small increase in graphical fidelity.

[Syrellaris]

DOZAH wrote...

dirty console peasants are dirty. nosce te ipsum. accept it, embrace it, move on.

DLC itself is a console invention.  Only putting the blame where it lies, yes?

Actually, DLC has been done long before that on the PC. back then it was either done in expansion packs or small updates.  DLC is just a new name tied to it, due to the heavy embrace of Broadband connections, simplifying downloading.

[DOZAH]

obie191970 wrote...

DOZAH wrote...
I might have said it harshly, but most of the meanings I conveyed would be freely admitted to by most console gamers.  That's why they play on consoles, because it's easier and they don't have to think.  That's the consoles only real advantage, and you can deny it all you want and call me elitist, but you know it's true.  

Ummm, no.  I do it because it's more comfortable on the couch than sitting at my desk..  I'll make that sacrifice for certain games I can't get on console like The Witcher and Diablo, but to me it isn't worth it on multi-platform games for a small increase in graphical fidelity.

PC's have things things, called VGA and HDMI connector outputs.  TV's have these things, called VGA and HDMI connector inputs.  The couch argument is not valid.

Neither is the price argument when you consider the fallibility of the 2 HD consoles of this generation either.  A 360 doesn't cost less than a PC when you have to buy 6 of them because they keep breaking.

Modifié par DOZAH, 27 février 2012 - 09:55 .

[shaneho78]

tez19 wrote...

BIOWARE IN STEEP DECLINE!

www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-topples-eas-pre-order-targets/

geek.pikimal.com/2012/02/27/mass-effect-3-has-more-preorders-than-mass-effect-2/