13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Here you go in response to this thread and complaints about DLC.

http://tinypic.com/r/2d29l6v/5

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 01:11 .

[addiction21]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

You guys see this?  Someone ebay'ed their ME3 Space Edition.  Look how much it went for, although it was just a buy-it-now.

www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll

Funniest thing is, they're paying to get it way early and then the guy is going to lose "2-4" days with his shipping method.  Sure hope the buyer makes him pony up and overnight that!

Yeah i can wait one more week

I guess some people can't lol

If the person dropped that much money on the game so :they could play it early" then way didnt they get the overnight delivery?
The logic does not follow.

[Lost Cipher]

addiction21 wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

You guys see this?  Someone ebay'ed their ME3 Space Edition.  Look how much it went for, although it was just a buy-it-now.

www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll

Funniest thing is, they're paying to get it way early and then the guy is going to lose "2-4" days with his shipping method.  Sure hope the buyer makes him pony up and overnight that!

Yeah i can wait one more week

I guess some people can't lol

If the person dropped that much money on the game so :they could play it early" then way didnt they get the overnight delivery?
The logic does not follow.

They just spent hundreds of dollars on a video game that at most costs $80, logic is not even involved.

[NeecHMonkeY]

DaJe wrote...

Wojtek the Soldier Bear wrote...

The developer and its employees must spend time, effort, and resources to provide this additional content with almost no guarantee that they will make money from it. What's the incentive to produce more content down the line if nobody buys it? You don't have to agree with their business strategy, but by boycotting this DLC, the people that truly get robbed in the long run are we the gamers. Not robbed of money, mind you, but of more hours of epic narrative and superb character development. Throw your slippery slope fallacies away, people, and swallow that ridiculous false sense of entitlement. Enjoy the labor of both love and money that is Mass Effect 3, and be glad that we have the privilege (not the right) to experience the heart-racing finale of the greatest Sci-Fi trilogy in gaming history.

So if you draw a line half way through development and say, everything we do from here on will be sold as extra content on release it would be ok?

Did Bethesda go bankrupt when they put everything they had finished on the release day of Skyrim into the game?

How can you call something that was developed and finished before the release date extra content.

Let's also consider that based on the logic of "Bioware did extra work for this DLC so we should happily pay them for that" argument; EVERYONE should be paying a little extra due to the fact that the game was delayed for 5 months. That's 5 months of extra work that we fans are apparetly indebted to Bioware.

We should all be paying extra for any game that gets delayed now because that's additional cost for the Developers that wasn't factored into their original budget (based on the logic that Day One DLC is also not factored into their original budget which is why it should cost money on top of the actual game).

[CommanderCoffee]

Lost Cipher wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

You guys see this?  Someone ebay'ed their ME3 Space Edition.  Look how much it went for, although it was just a buy-it-now.

www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll

Funniest thing is, they're paying to get it way early and then the guy is going to lose "2-4" days with his shipping method.  Sure hope the buyer makes him pony up and overnight that!

Yeah i can wait one more week

I guess some people can't lol

If the person dropped that much money on the game so :they could play it early" then way didnt they get the overnight delivery?
The logic does not follow.

They just spent hundreds of dollars on a video game that at most costs $80, logic is not even involved.

BUT THIS ONE WENT TO SPACE

These probably went only 10 or 15 kilometers up. So, eh, not so much space.

[Brownfinger]

chance52 wrote...

breadedpudding wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

*snip*

If people are going to take a moral stand, why not take it all the way and use the money saved from your your game/DLC boycott for a small donation to the Red Cross or charity of your choosing? Turn your anger into something constructive.

That is an awesome idea, and I really hope people do consider taking that course of action! It would be a wonderful way to turn their actions into constructive actions, without a doubt.

I love this idea! But I know there have been more than a few people upset about the $10 price tag and mentions of money being tight for them.  For those people I would suggest donating their time.  I volunteer to a cause that is very important to me and while money is great for the organization, the people who donate their time are often needed a lot more.

Even better.
To everyone who was moved by this to give, or has ever given for whatever you believe worthy, I salute you. When properly moved, gaming consumers can swing around some clout and get things done. 

As I've said before, I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition, and feel like I've invested well. I did before the Prothean, but I definitely do now.

[Dragoonlordz]

CommanderCoffee wrote...

BUT THIS ONE WENT TO SPACE

These probably went only 10 or 15 kilometers up. So, eh, not so much space.

Next thread on BSN will be moaning about someone getting space herpies from space copies of the game.

[CommanderCoffee]

Brownfinger wrote...

chance52 wrote...

breadedpudding wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

*snip*

If people are going to take a moral stand, why not take it all the way and use the money saved from your your game/DLC boycott for a small donation to the Red Cross or charity of your choosing? Turn your anger into something constructive.

That is an awesome idea, and I really hope people do consider taking that course of action! It would be a wonderful way to turn their actions into constructive actions, without a doubt.

I love this idea! But I know there have been more than a few people upset about the $10 price tag and mentions of money being tight for them.  For those people I would suggest donating their time.  I volunteer to a cause that is very important to me and while money is great for the organization, the people who donate their time are often needed a lot more.

Even better.
To everyone who was moved by this to give, or has ever given for whatever you believe worthy, I salute you. When properly moved, gaming consumers can swing around some clout and get things done. 

As I've said before, I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition, and feel like I've invested well. I did before the Prothean, but I definitely do now.

Hey, if you want to do this, why not Kiva.org? You partially fund a person's loan, you'll eventually get the money back, and you feel warm and fuzzy knowing that instead of throwing someone a fish so they eat today, you've given them a fishing pole so they can eat for life.

[CommanderCoffee]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

BUT THIS ONE WENT TO SPACE

These probably went only 10 or 15 kilometers up. So, eh, not so much space.

Next thread on BSN will be moaning about someone getting space herpies from space copies of the game.

If that happened, ASTROBIOLOGISTS WOULD LOVE THE CRAP OUT OF BIOWARE BECAUSE SPACE LIFE

[syrik77]

After playing the demo I didn't think another reason would come up to not buy Mass Effect 3, then I read about day 1 DLC. You people seriously didn't learn a thing with DA2 did you? I guess I don't have to worry about buying a Bioware product for the foreseeable future. I'll enjoy reading the less than expected sales reports though, greed is bad.

[CommanderCoffee]

syrik77 wrote...

After playing the demo I didn't think another reason would come up to not buy Mass Effect 3, then I read about day 1 DLC. You people seriously didn't learn a thing with DA2 did you? I guess I don't have to worry about buying a Bioware product for the foreseeable future. I'll enjoy reading the less than expected sales reports though, greed is bad.

I never played Dragon Age 2. All I've played from BioWare is Mass Effect, and I've loved it.

[Dragoonlordz]

syrik77 wrote...

After playing the demo I didn't think another reason would come up to not buy Mass Effect 3, then I read about day 1 DLC. You people seriously didn't learn a thing with DA2 did you? I guess I don't have to worry about buying a Bioware product for the foreseeable future. I'll enjoy reading the less than expected sales reports though, greed is bad.

Your mistaken on less than expected as proved earlier in this thread where they stated the opposite and sales references which back up the vast sales in preorders.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 01:56 .

[addiction21]

Lost Cipher wrote...

They just spent hundreds of dollars on a video game that at most costs $80, logic is not even involved.

If the logic people are using is that he spent that kind of money to play it early then that is contridictory to him not paying for overnight shipping to have it as soon as possible.

The person could just be a collector and wanted it.

CommanderCoffee wrote...

BUT THIS ONE WENT TO SPACE

These probably went only 10 or 15 kilometers up. So, eh, not so much space.

Mid to high Troposphere edition does not sound as cool as the space edition.

[LumpOfCole]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

DaJe wrote...

Wojtek the Soldier Bear wrote...

The developer and its employees must spend time, effort, and resources to provide this additional content with almost no guarantee that they will make money from it. What's the incentive to produce more content down the line if nobody buys it? You don't have to agree with their business strategy, but by boycotting this DLC, the people that truly get robbed in the long run are we the gamers. Not robbed of money, mind you, but of more hours of epic narrative and superb character development. Throw your slippery slope fallacies away, people, and swallow that ridiculous false sense of entitlement. Enjoy the labor of both love and money that is Mass Effect 3, and be glad that we have the privilege (not the right) to experience the heart-racing finale of the greatest Sci-Fi trilogy in gaming history.

So if you draw a line half way through development and say, everything we do from here on will be sold as extra content on release it would be ok?

Did Bethesda go bankrupt when they put everything they had finished on the release day of Skyrim into the game?

How can you call something that was developed and finished before the release date extra content.

Let's also consider that based on the logic of "Bioware did extra work for this DLC so we should happily pay them for that" argument; EVERYONE should be paying a little extra due to the fact that the game was delayed for 5 months. That's 5 months of extra work that we fans are apparetly indebted to Bioware.

We should all be paying extra for any game that gets delayed now because that's additional cost for the Developers that wasn't factored into their original budget (based on the logic that Day One DLC is also not factored into their original budget which is why it should cost money on top of the actual game).

That's not how any sort of business works. The publisher eats the cost when that occurs. A burger that takes 5 minutes to prepare or 8 minutes to prepare is still going to cost the same. Fries are still developed with a separate budget that would not have been provided if they weren't going to be sold at an extra cost.

[Dragoonlordz]

LumpOfCole wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

DaJe wrote...

Wojtek the Soldier Bear wrote...

The developer and its employees must spend time, effort, and resources to provide this additional content with almost no guarantee that they will make money from it. What's the incentive to produce more content down the line if nobody buys it? You don't have to agree with their business strategy, but by boycotting this DLC, the people that truly get robbed in the long run are we the gamers. Not robbed of money, mind you, but of more hours of epic narrative and superb character development. Throw your slippery slope fallacies away, people, and swallow that ridiculous false sense of entitlement. Enjoy the labor of both love and money that is Mass Effect 3, and be glad that we have the privilege (not the right) to experience the heart-racing finale of the greatest Sci-Fi trilogy in gaming history.

So if you draw a line half way through development and say, everything we do from here on will be sold as extra content on release it would be ok?

Did Bethesda go bankrupt when they put everything they had finished on the release day of Skyrim into the game?

How can you call something that was developed and finished before the release date extra content.

Let's also consider that based on the logic of "Bioware did extra work for this DLC so we should happily pay them for that" argument; EVERYONE should be paying a little extra due to the fact that the game was delayed for 5 months. That's 5 months of extra work that we fans are apparetly indebted to Bioware.

We should all be paying extra for any game that gets delayed now because that's additional cost for the Developers that wasn't factored into their original budget (based on the logic that Day One DLC is also not factored into their original budget which is why it should cost money on top of the actual game).

That's not how any sort of business works. The publisher eats the cost when that occurs. A burger that takes 5 minutes to prepare or 8 minutes to prepare is still going to cost the same. Fries are still developed with a separate budget that would not have been provided if they weren't going to be sold at an extra cost.

Your just making me hungry... 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 02:21 .

[NeecHMonkeY]

LumpOfCole wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

DaJe wrote...

Wojtek the Soldier Bear wrote...

The developer and its employees must spend time, effort, and resources to provide this additional content with almost no guarantee that they will make money from it. What's the incentive to produce more content down the line if nobody buys it? You don't have to agree with their business strategy, but by boycotting this DLC, the people that truly get robbed in the long run are we the gamers. Not robbed of money, mind you, but of more hours of epic narrative and superb character development. Throw your slippery slope fallacies away, people, and swallow that ridiculous false sense of entitlement. Enjoy the labor of both love and money that is Mass Effect 3, and be glad that we have the privilege (not the right) to experience the heart-racing finale of the greatest Sci-Fi trilogy in gaming history.

So if you draw a line half way through development and say, everything we do from here on will be sold as extra content on release it would be ok?

Did Bethesda go bankrupt when they put everything they had finished on the release day of Skyrim into the game?

How can you call something that was developed and finished before the release date extra content.

Let's also consider that based on the logic of "Bioware did extra work for this DLC so we should happily pay them for that" argument; EVERYONE should be paying a little extra due to the fact that the game was delayed for 5 months. That's 5 months of extra work that we fans are apparetly indebted to Bioware.

We should all be paying extra for any game that gets delayed now because that's additional cost for the Developers that wasn't factored into their original budget (based on the logic that Day One DLC is also not factored into their original budget which is why it should cost money on top of the actual game).

That's not how any sort of business works. The publisher eats the cost when that occurs. A burger that takes 5 minutes to prepare or 8 minutes to prepare is still going to cost the same. Fries are still developed with a separate budget that would not have been provided if they weren't going to be sold at an extra cost.

The burger most certainly costs the same but the employee working on the burger has to work longer, right?

He's got 5mins left of his shift and the burger takes 8mins to cook instead of the planned 5mins so now he's 3mins over schedule and not getting paid overtime.

In actual fact and based on my own experience working in game development - none of us get paid for all the work we do. Everyone is expected to work long hours and rarely ever does overtime pay make it into our salary packages.

Should the customer be blamed for that? Should they be expected to pay more for that extra work we all do in order to get a game into their hands on time?

Why is it ok for the Publisher to 'eat the cost' when this occurs but not when developing DLC to be released at the same time as the game?

It's not really like they bring in a whole new team to start from scratch on the DLC, they just reallocate those of us who are finished in other parts of the project so really, it's all the same money being spent no matter how the financial reports  and PR spin it.

Modifié par NeecHMonkeY, 29 février 2012 - 02:36 .

[Dragoonlordz]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

The burger most certainly costs the same but the employee working on the burger has to work longer, right?

He's got 5mins left of his shift and the burger takes 8mins to cook instead of the planned 5mins so now he's 3mins over schedule and not getting paid overtime.

In actual fact and based on my own experience working in game development - none of us get paid for all the work we do. Everyone is expected to work long hours and rarely ever does overtime pay make it into our salary packages.

Should the customer be blamed for that? Should they be expected to pay more for that extra work we all do in order to get a game into their hands on time?

Why is it ok for the Publisher to 'eat the cost' when this occurs but not when developing DLC to be released at the same time as the game?

It's not really like they bring in a whole new team to start from scratch on the DLC, they just reallocate those of us who are finished in other parts of the project so really, it's all the same money being spent no matter how the financial reports spin it.

Take in context of cake example I used in past inside the trial thread. Which deals with the optional nature of the parts of the product. Of which at time I was asking for them to create additional content if get the chance, akin to a cherry on top improving my enjoyment of the game which willing to buy for that purpose.

No different to buying a cake with cherry on top and sprinkles on it at a bakery, you may or may not like the cherry or sprinkles on top but atleast you the customer was given the choice to buy or try it. You do not have to buy the most expensive cake with most toppings but you have that option. All varieties of cake add to the enjoyment of the plain cake based on personal taste.

In this essence they are selling three different types of cake, the plain variety (SE) or the variety with sprinkles (SE+DLC) or sprinkles and cherry on top (CE). It's not paying for one form of cake which has different baking times. All those cakes in example were created prior to selling but have additional cost and it DOES cost more to hire another team or pay them even if in original budget that budget includes the 'additional cost' of the extra team. Why should you get it for $60, why not $40 or $55 even $70. What they charge for the product is there choice and the more they spent making the product the more they can charge you for it, the budget itself cost them more with the additional team than without it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 02:49 .

[LumpOfCole]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

The burger most certainly costs the same but the employee working on the burger has to work longer, right?

He's got 5mins left of his shift and the burger takes 8mins to cook instead of the planned 5mins so now he's 3mins over schedule and not getting paid overtime.

In actual fact and based on my own experience working in game development - none of us get paid for all the work we do. Everyone is expected to work long hours and rarely ever does overtime pay make it into our salary packages.

Should the customer be blamed for that? Should they be expected to pay more for that extra work we all do in order to get a game into their hands on time?

Why is it ok for the Publisher to 'eat the cost' when this occurs but not when developing DLC to be released at the same time as the game?

It's not really like they bring in a whole new team to start from scratch on the DLC, they just reallocate those of us who are finished in other parts of the project so really, it's all the same money being spent no matter how the financial reports spin it.

The publisher eats the cost because the publisher knows that it cannot get away with selling something for more than they intended to (and more than other games) just because the game got worked on for longer. They're set to a $60 game, mostly because they know that's as much as they can get away with for a core product.

Are you saying that certain members of the production team, like artists, like musicians, like FMV creators they may outsource, like audio designers, all these guys don't get paid anything extra to work on content for premium DLC if the DLC is launched when the core game comes out? They might get reassigned or certain producers might not be offered any projects at all until development for post-launch DLC happened.

If "From Ashes" weren't developed at all, what would content producers (not just coders, but everyone involved) be doing instead? They would be reassigned to other projects with different budgets or their contracts would simply cease, ending up in less money paid to them since there was no premium DLC budget supplied.

[TK EL_]

The point is if the cost of the DLC was included with the additional price of the CE, why do people think they should get it for free? It is left to be seen if the DLC will indeed be of enough significance to have been a part of the core game. Till then all this drivel that is flying about are just assumptions which are insulting to the devs if they cannot be proven. They certainly can't be proven by a 6 month old script. Wait a week, then you can dig up the evidence to support your currently baseless claims.

Also while I agree that CE extra content should only by physical and cosmetic stuff at most, it is currently not the status quo of the industry. So stop acting like pointing your pitchforks at bioware will solve the problem

[MartinDN]

Whats all this Bull**** about burgers french fries and CE/SE ? It was either in the original game or it was not, and evidence proves contrary to it being made post production, people have a point.

Whether they should give it out free...now that is an entirely different subject. It is up to Bioware to charge what they want for whatever content they decide to charge for, removed from the game or otherwise it does not matter. Its up to us, the consumer, to decide if its worth the price of admission and if you believe it should be free due to your perception that it is day 1 dlc and made pre production then stick by your convictions and dont purchase the game.

I for one do not class DAY 1 dlc in the same league as freedom of speech and do not see the need to fight for, and thus boycott it, and as such will be purchasing. I have to sate my desire for the trilogy somehow.

Modifié par MartinDN, 29 février 2012 - 02:54 .

[The Pinray]

This one does not care for such male bovine solid waste excretions of questionable consequence and intelligence. It will enjoy it's copy of the game.

This one sincerely hopes the one Blasto does not make an appearance, for it is highly offensive.

It also hopes to relay it's concern that no compatable controller has been made of this one's lack of opposable thumbs or fingers.

This one wishes all here well and prays the Enkindlers erase all rectal affliction caused by this title's extra content.

Good Day.

[Dragoonlordz]

MartinDN wrote...

snip

My mistake misread your post. However there is no evidence was part of the main game at all and makes no difference if was created prior to release. The cake and other examples explain why.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 03:00 .

[BaronIveagh]

Wow, the free DLC now rants continue. Personally, I oppose this DLC on principal, as it's been handled so badly that it makes me think they laid off their PR department, but... No, they should not give it to you free. Yes, it was a bone headed management decision. Was it chopped from the final game to make DLC, we don't know yet, Jury is still out.

As said before, if it's 'on disc' DLC for CE though, I expect to see this board explode.

HOwever, I DO see DL has initiated Code: TROLL, so I don't need to bother.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 29 février 2012 - 03:01 .

[DJStarstryker]

I noticed that the regular edition gets you $10 credit on Amazon. If you buy stuff on Amazon all the time, then it's like getting the game for $50 instead of $60. So if you pay for From Ashes after that, it's like you got it for free.

[NeecHMonkeY]

LumpOfCole wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

The burger most certainly costs the same but the employee working on the burger has to work longer, right?

He's got 5mins left of his shift and the burger takes 8mins to cook instead of the planned 5mins so now he's 3mins over schedule and not getting paid overtime.

In actual fact and based on my own experience working in game development - none of us get paid for all the work we do. Everyone is expected to work long hours and rarely ever does overtime pay make it into our salary packages.

Should the customer be blamed for that? Should they be expected to pay more for that extra work we all do in order to get a game into their hands on time?

Why is it ok for the Publisher to 'eat the cost' when this occurs but not when developing DLC to be released at the same time as the game?

It's not really like they bring in a whole new team to start from scratch on the DLC, they just reallocate those of us who are finished in other parts of the project so really, it's all the same money being spent no matter how the financial reports spin it.

The publisher eats the cost because the publisher knows that it cannot get away with selling something for more than they intended to (and more than other games) just because the game got worked on for longer. They're set to a $60 game, mostly because they know that's as much as they can get away with for a core product.

Are you saying that certain members of the production team, like artists, like musicians, like FMV creators they may outsource, like audio designers, all these guys don't get paid anything extra to work on content for premium DLC if the DLC is launched when the core game comes out? They might get reassigned or certain producers might not be offered any projects at all until development for post-launch DLC happened.

If "From Ashes" weren't developed at all, what would content producers (not just coders, but everyone involved) be doing instead? They would be reassigned to other projects with different budgets or their contracts would simply cease, ending up in less money paid to them since there was no premium DLC budget supplied.

No, they don't get paid 'extra', they get paid the same as they usualy would on a monthly salary basis and that budget is accounted for - and that's what you meant, right?

You're actually correct on pretty much all accounts which is why I don't understand why people think that it's a necessary thing that the customer pay extra for content that was already budgeted for (it's naive to think that it wasn't - all DLC is considered within the budget long in advance).

So it stands to reason that based on the argument that the customer should pay extra for Day One DLC (or any DLC for that matter) that was developed within the planned budget for the entire game, they should also have to pay extra when a game is delayed because that really is additional work for the developers that wasn't actually within the original planned budget for the entire game development.