13369 réponses à ce sujet

[LumpOfCole]

MartinDN wrote...

Whats all this Bull**** about burgers french fries and CE/SE ? It was either in the original game or it was not, and evidence proves contrary to it being made post production, people have a point.
.

Again, the exact same 'evidence' is the same as when people found 'evidence' of Kasumi in the Mass Effect 2 inner workings when that game came out. A couple voice samples and some preliminary scripting references does not make compelling evidence that the content of "From Ashes" was produced alongside everything in the core development time and budget.

[BaronIveagh]

LumpOfCole wrote...
Again, the exact same 'evidence' is the same as when people found 'evidence' of Kasumi in the Mass Effect 2 inner workings when that game came out. A couple voice samples and some preliminary scripting references does not make compelling evidence that the content of "From Ashes" was produced alongside everything in the core development time and budget.

Ok, now, this I'll stop you on.  We only have the tlk files from the demo to go on, so...  Technically no one has any evidence of anything yet.  We should wait for the game to release before we start frothing at the mouth and throwing a fit.

[MartinDN]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

MartinDN wrote...

snip

My mistake misread your post. However there is no evidence was part of the main game at all and makes no difference if was created prior to release. The cake and other examples explain why.

I can see your point its hard to say whether it was in the game or not, thats the thing though from what ive read it seems to support it being there prior release but i do not know i am not a bioware employee. Biowares word 5 years ago would of been enough for me to simply ignore these anti-bioware sentiments as trolling and/or clutching at straws, but im not so sure anymore. 

I will still happily buy it of course. Although if it was removed from the game i could see a worrying trend developing in the industry.

Modifié par MartinDN, 29 février 2012 - 03:06 .

[Dragoonlordz]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

No, they don't get paid 'extra', they get paid the same as they usualy would on a monthly salary basis and that budget is accounted for - and that's what you meant, right?

You're actually correct on pretty much all accounts which is why I don't understand why people think that it's a necessary thing that the customer pay extra for content that was already budgeted for (it's naive to think that it wasn't - all DLC is considered within the budget long in advance).

So it stands to reason that based on the argument that the customer should pay extra for Day One DLC (or any DLC for that matter) that was developed within the planned budget for the entire game, they should also have to pay extra when a game is delayed because that really is additional work for the developers that wasn't actually within the original planned budget for the entire game development.

What they charge you is up to them. Nothing immoral or unethical about it. The product on offer at the price offered can be $40 or $50 or $60 or even $70. The profit margin is their choice, if too steep for a person they can wait a few months and the price drops in gaming products would mean they get that product for much less than "due to lack of patience" at buying right away. I waited a year for DAO to drop due to DLC having so many for the game. I got it at what I consider an amazing price of £20 for game + all DLC and expansions aka the Ultimate Edition.

Price aspect I consider to be the most redundant aspect of the argument. Games drop in price at a scary rate, you could buy the game and DLC combined for less than the game alone within a few months. You can buy it plus more than one DLC included for less than half price if wait a year. Wait a few years and may be able to pick up the game in GoTY or bundle format with all DLCs or even all titles in trilogy and DLCs for price of a takeaway.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 03:30 .

[ZX12r Ninja]

When I read through the last 3 pages I think to myself: "Same ****e, different people". This has all been discussed, you are not adding anything here. It's just the same core people who complain and the rest is indifferent to it, get over it, move on, lock the thread and release the game tomorrow!

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 29 février 2012 - 03:34 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

LumpOfCole wrote...
Again, the exact same 'evidence' is the same as when people found 'evidence' of Kasumi in the Mass Effect 2 inner workings when that game came out. A couple voice samples and some preliminary scripting references does not make compelling evidence that the content of "From Ashes" was produced alongside everything in the core development time and budget.

Ok, now, this I'll stop you on.  We only have the tlk files from the demo to go on, so...  Technically no one has any evidence of anything yet.  We should wait for the game to release before we start frothing at the mouth and throwing a fit.

This is part of the issue some of us have with those complaining, so many people making claims about cut content/impact of presence all of which none of them know either way. On the price issue as far as I am concerned they don't have much ground to stand on. Like you know I will defend a persons right to create a product, distribute and try to sell it at a price they wish to start at. Over time in gaming the price drops so fast and such a rate price becomes a mute point (imho). I would defend their right to do so Bioware or EA as much as I would defend yours if you made something. 

Btw did you see this? I edited and uploaded it for you. Not in mean way but funny little poke fun at your earlier comment jesting when talked about it being in other news and gaming sites. Don't take it to heart too much I just was watching south park and you sprang to mind due to that earlier comment it made me laugh. Thought you might find amusing. I originally made it for you because of something you said.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 03:22 .

[NeecHMonkeY]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

No, they don't get paid 'extra', they get paid the same as they usualy would on a monthly salary basis and that budget is accounted for - and that's what you meant, right?

You're actually correct on pretty much all accounts which is why I don't understand why people think that it's a necessary thing that the customer pay extra for content that was already budgeted for (it's naive to think that it wasn't - all DLC is considered within the budget long in advance).

So it stands to reason that based on the argument that the customer should pay extra for Day One DLC (or any DLC for that matter) that was developed within the planned budget for the entire game, they should also have to pay extra when a game is delayed because that really is additional work for the developers that wasn't actually within the original planned budget for the entire game development.

What they charge you is up to them. Nothing immoral or unethical about it. The product on offer at the price offered can be $40 or $50 or $60 or even $70. The profit margin is there choice, if too steep for a person they can wait a few months and the price drops in gaming products would mean they get that product for much less than lack of patience at buying right away. I waited a year for DAO to drop due to DLC having so many for the game. I got it at what I consider an amazing price of £20 for game + all DLC and expansions aka the Ultimate Edition.

Price aspect I consider to be the most redundant aspect of the argument. Game drop in price at a scary rate, you could buy the game and DLC combined for less than the game alone within a few months. You can buy it plus more than one DLC included for less than half price if wait a year. Wait a few years and may be able to pick up the game in GoTY or bundle format with all DLCS or even all titles in trilogy and DLCs for price of a takeaway.

Actually, there is a limit to how much any professional business can charge for a particular item under the Fair Trade Act (of course, I'm only talking about countries such as US, UK, Australia, Japan, Canada, New Zealand, etc that actually follow the respective Fair Trade Act within their country) but I get what you're saying.

I don't actually believe that anyone should pay extra for a game that has been delayed - it's actually a very silly idea. The point of it is to try and put things into perspective for the people who think that Bioware/EA is owed extra money for this DLC.

It's their right to charge money for the DLC but it's certainly not to cover the cost of making it - that will surely be made up through sales of the full game. If they didn't expect to make their money back as well as profit from the sales of the full game, DLC would never have been planned in the original budget.

[DJBare]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

This has all been discussed, you are not adding anything here. It's just the same core people who complain and the rest is indifferent to it, get over it, move on, lock the thread and release the game tomorrow!

The most sensible statement in the entire thread!

[Dragoonlordz]

DJBare wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

This has all been discussed, you are not adding anything here. It's just the same core people who complain and the rest is indifferent to it, get over it, move on, lock the thread and release the game tomorrow!

The most sensible statement in the entire thread!

Yes please for underlined part.

[CommanderCoffee]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

DJBare wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

This has all been discussed, you are not adding anything here. It's just the same core people who complain and the rest is indifferent to it, get over it, move on, lock the thread and release the game tomorrow!

The most sensible statement in the entire thread!

Yes please for underlined part.

Added italics for what I'd love more than anything.

[temo1]

temo1 wrote...

!!!

I totally agree ! WTF biowere I pre ordered game and now I find out that I can not download Prothein DLC WTF Why I can not Buy DLC with normal game ! thats just F up I was waiting to play the game because I love the story and now I find out I can not play The big part of the game !!! THAT IS WRONG

I WILL CANCELE MY ORDER IN GAME UK ! BECOUSE ITS WRONG TO DESTROY GAME STORY AND EXPETATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO LOVE THE GAME ONLY FOR MORE $$$ !!! I LOVED THE GAME AND STORY AND NOW I WILL NOT GET STORY FROM THE GAME BECOUSE I DID NOT BOUGHT COLLECTOR EDITION AND I WAS NOT INFORMED ABOUT IT AS WELL ... Well done guys ... Mass effec2 MADE ME ANGRY WITH ITS DLC BUT THIS IS JUST STUPID AND NOT OK ANY MORE !!! WERE IS real Mass effect gone with only 2 DLC and briliant story

[AJRimmsey]

peculiar though that every other topic is allowed multiple threads.
but mention dlc and its all shovelled into a 480 page pit.

"everybody in the thread say MOOOOOOOOOOO"

LOL

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 29 février 2012 - 03:52 .

[AlanC9]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...
No, they don't get paid 'extra', they get paid the same as they usualy would on a monthly salary basis and that budget is accounted for - and that's what you meant, right?

You're actually correct on pretty much all accounts which is why I don't understand why people think that it's a necessary thing that the customer pay extra for content that was already budgeted for (it's naive to think that it wasn't - all DLC is considered within the budget long in advance).

But if the budget was for making the game and the DLC, then it simply isn't paying "extra" when the customer pays for the game and the DLC. And since you say the DLC really is "considered within the budget long in advance," ......

Also, don't muddle up different budgets -- while a programmer is on a monthly salary, the budgets are for individual projects. Ever fill out a timesheet?

As for what the customer "should pay," I'm not going to get involved with it. From where I sit, there's no "should" here. Companies can charge whatever they please, and customers can pay for whichever products tthey feel are worth the price. (Just talking ethics, not law -- though I don't think anyone'd have any luck going afer EA under the Fair Trade Act or similar)

Modifié par AlanC9, 29 février 2012 - 03:55 .

[temo1]

AJRimmsey wrote...

peculiar though that every other topic is allowed multiple threads.
but mention dlc and its all shovelled into a 480 page pit.

"everybody in the thread say MOOOOOOOOOOO"

LOL

Becouse people loose money and THE STORY as well as Expectations of the game THAT NEEDS more actions than 480 pages on forum 

[CommanderCoffee]

God dammit stop posting Total Nutcase's video. We saw it a week ago, it currently has zero relevance.

[Daiyu101]

Some.. most, probably, could argue for and against the actual content of the DLC (Prothean team member, which.. personally, I am looking forward to), but I find the easiest way to justify any kinda DLC is this short phrase.

"Want to enhance your game experience, want 'more', then 'pay' for more".

It's not "cold" on the part of the game developers, and in fact, most companies would love to distribute DLC for free HOWEVER.. it costs 'them' money to put it up on services like Xboxlive, I don't know if it costs them 'x' amount per download or a one-off fee to simply put it on there but much as they may love catering to fans and giving them more to play around with, they are a business and aren't intentionally going to make themselves go broke.

It's effectively the same as any initial purchase of a game, time and money goes into developing it, and the hope is that the sales will make a return and then sum to make all those headaches and coding long nights worth while, similarly, people got paid to make the DLC so there needs to be a return on that somehow too.. especially if they are charged with a fee to making it available to the public.

As for the incredibly foul practice of intentionally leaving stuff out of games so that they can be converted into DLC one must pay for, I got nothing to endorse that with as I find it morally abhorrent (hurr).

tl;dr: Quality qualms being a post-purchase issue, "Want to enhance your [insert game name] experience beyond the full content? Splurge a little and get this DLC we've just finished making! If not, you can still enjoy the whole game."

[temo1]

CommanderCoffee wrote...

God dammit stop posting Total Nutcase's video. We saw it a week ago, it currently has zero relevance.

why it has a Zero relevance? If i bought a normal edition for my Pc and I will be not able to play some of the DLC and I will lose some of the story out THAN THATS NOT OK WITH ME ! Why Nobody informed me about those changes  ?   

[AJRimmsey]

Daiyu101 wrote...

Some.. most, probably, could argue for and against the actual content of the DLC (Prothean team member, which.. personally, I am looking forward to), but I find the easiest way to justify any kinda DLC is this short phrase.

"Want to enhance your game experience, want 'more', then 'pay' for more".

the dlc is not more or bonus or extras.

the dlc is cut content.

thats the bottom line,and as long as people keep saying its "extras" the more times we will see stuff chopped out and resold.

remember its not expansion,its chop shop marketing.

again i dont blame them,its what we all would do if we could.

[CommanderCoffee]

temo1 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

God dammit stop posting Total Nutcase's video. We saw it a week ago, it currently has zero relevance.

why it has a Zero relevance? If i bought a normal edition for my Pc and I will be not able to play some of the DLC and I will lose some of the story out THAN THATS NOT OK WITH ME ! Why Nobody informed me about those changes  ?   

Most of the crap he says is opinion. We went over his rantings about 300 pages ago. You're late to the party. Fact is, we're done with that.

[temo1]

CommanderCoffee wrote...

temo1 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

God dammit stop posting Total Nutcase's video. We saw it a week ago, it currently has zero relevance.

why it has a Zero relevance? If i bought a normal edition for my Pc and I will be not able to play some of the DLC and I will lose some of the story out THAN THATS NOT OK WITH ME ! Why Nobody informed me about those changes  ?   

Most of the crap he says is opinion. We went over his rantings about 300 pages ago. You're late to the party. Fact is, we're done with that.

So just tell me WILL I BE ABLE TO PLAY ON MY PC WITH MY PRE ORDERED NORMAL EDITION ME 3 , ALL THE DLC AND ALL THE STORY, If I will buy DLC as I did on ME 2 ( IT was also Normal Edition and I bought DLC later )

Modifié par temo1, 29 février 2012 - 04:04 .

[AlanC9]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...
It's their right to charge money for the DLC but it's certainly not to cover the cost of making it - that will surely be made up through sales of the full game. If they didn't expect to make their money back as well as profit from the sales of the full game, DLC would never have been planned in the original budget.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of businesses where the main product is sold for minimal profit, at a loss, or even given away, and all the profit comes from the follow-on high-margin products and/or services.

I've worked in legal publishing, where the books are continually updated as the law changes. All our profits came from the updates, which we made huge profit margins on. The initial volumes were sold at break-even or thereabouts. So were the updates ripoffs? They were the only thing making the books worth publishing.

Not that I'm saying gaming's there. Yet. There isn't enough DLC penetration now -- half of all gamers don't buy any DLC at all, last I heard. In the future, the market could very well develop this way, in which case the DLCs would be subsidizing the base games.

Modifié par AlanC9, 29 février 2012 - 04:04 .

[CommanderCoffee]

temo1 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

temo1 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

God dammit stop posting Total Nutcase's video. We saw it a week ago, it currently has zero relevance.

why it has a Zero relevance? If i bought a normal edition for my Pc and I will be not able to play some of the DLC and I will lose some of the story out THAN THATS NOT OK WITH ME ! Why Nobody informed me about those changes  ?   

Most of the crap he says is opinion. We went over his rantings about 300 pages ago. You're late to the party. Fact is, we're done with that.

So just tell me WILL I BE ABLE TO PLAY ON MY PC WITH MY PRE ORDERED NORMAL EDITION ME 3 , ALL THE DLC AND ALL THE STORY, If I will buy DLC as I did on ME 2 ( IT was also Normal Edition and I bought DLC later )

You will be able to play on PC, DLC and all. Just so happens that there is a piece of Day One DLC.

[BigTuna82]

temo1 wrote...

So just tell me WILL I BE ABLE TO PLAY ON MY PC WITH MY PRE ORDERED NORMAL EDITION ME 3 , ALL THE DLC AND ALL THE STORY, If I will buy DLC as I did on ME 2 ( IT was also Normal Edition and I bought DLC later )

What does that mean?

[Dragoonlordz]

temo1 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

God dammit stop posting Total Nutcase's video. We saw it a week ago, it currently has zero relevance.

why it has a Zero relevance? If i bought a normal edition for my Pc and I will be not able to play some of the DLC and I will lose some of the story out THAN THATS NOT OK WITH ME ! Why Nobody informed me about those changes  ?   

You can play DLC if you pay for it, you can pay less for game including DLC if you wait for few months. There is no "not able" at all. You are not entitled to everything they create just because you want it, does not matter if thats day one DLC, multiple DLCs on different dates or comics, t-shirts, multiplayer weapons in fact anything except "what is offered".

With regard to your last sentence I suggest you go back and read some of these 400+ pages to get yourself more informed before mouthing off. You was also informed that CE was getting additional character and mission months ago in fact much longer than that, throwing a hissy over then allowing SE owners to pick up that DLC on day one rather than not at all or months later is silly. You lose nothing, and if the product on offer or price offered at offends you then either wait till it drops in price which happens at an extreme rate in first place on games or buy a different game.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 04:10 .

[CommanderCoffee]

BigTuna82 wrote...

temo1 wrote...

So just tell me WILL I BE ABLE TO PLAY ON MY PC WITH MY PRE ORDERED NORMAL EDITION ME 3 , ALL THE DLC AND ALL THE STORY, If I will buy DLC as I did on ME 2 ( IT was also Normal Edition and I bought DLC later )

What does that mean?

I think somehow he got, "PCs won't even be able to run Mass Effect 3" from Total Nutcase. TN seems to be yelling a lot of things, wouldn't be surprised if that was one of them.