13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

I'll go over it again. People say that Bioware can do whatever they want because that's the way markets work, and that we should stop complaining. I said it's a load of bollocks, because Bioware has what amounts to a monopoly in a liberal market system.

People seem to ignore that I said that I have no problem with this, but that I do think that gives us the right to complain and demand change when we think they are abusing their power.

Okay, does everyone have the right context in mind now? Or do I need to explain further?

They own their product, they created that product from scratch. You can call it a monopoly if wish (on that creation) but unless your in some strange world where you think everything should be owned by everyone and noone has copyright or ownership of anything they create then your point makes no sense. No one is ignoring anything you said, we are questioning (one of the things) you said and acknowledged you have a right to ask for the product on offer to include other things. You have no right to it, but you are within your rights to ask for it. The problem we all seem to have is in the other element of what your saying and not the aspect of right to say whats on your mind.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 10:38 .

[AlanC9]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

I'll go over it again. People say that Bioware can do whatever they want because that's the way markets work, and that we should stop complaining. I said it's a load of bollocks, because Bioware has what amounts to a monopoly in a liberal market system.

People seem to ignore that I said that I have no problem with this, but that I do think that gives us the right to complain and demand change when we think they are abusing their power.

Gives us the right to complain? I wasn't aware something is needed to give us that right .

I certainly haven't said that anyone shoudln't complain. I don't think that DLCs are worth what they're charging for them myself.

Modifié par AlanC9, 29 février 2012 - 10:49 .

[moviebuff3000]

Bottom line is that if you dont like to pay the money than dont. Nobody from EA or Bioware is twisting your arms or putting a gun to your head to buy it. Since many people procrastinated ordering the CE than that is their own fault. CE's are always limited editions no matter what company they come from I thought people would have been smart enough to figure that out on their own. Be lucky you guys are actually getting the DLC at all and BW and EA didnt leave it just to the CE. You guys are so ungrateful to BW for making this game that all you do is complain about it and the DLC.

Modifié par moviebuff3000, 29 février 2012 - 11:04 .

[Heimdall]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Your first comparisons were closer to the mark.  From Ashes is not vital part of the Mass Effect 3 story or experience.  The fans are the only ones arbitrarily assigning that value to it.  It is indeed, nothing more than extra content.  I'd like to know where on earth you're getting the idea that they are somehow charging you for content necesary to complete the game.

You don't get it!  The character should be important!  BioWare should have done a better job in writing their own **** game. <_<

Ok, ribbing aside, I don't like the idea of Day 1 DLC, whether it's an offering from a CE to the SE owners or not.  It's confusing for customers, primarily the casual ones, that they go in to buy a product on its release date, only to find that there is more content available to be bought.  To me, that would be a bit confusing and frustrating, as I would expect the only content available should be the content on the retail disc.

However, the dramatic hyperbole, assumptions on how it was made, etc. aren't selling the argument.  

There's no reason this character needs to be important.  He isn't the Protheans, who have a signifigant part in the lore.  He is a single individual.  He is not a scientist or the leader of his people, he is a single soldier that doesn't even know about the research on Ilos.  Your confusing your own wants with what qualifies as good writing.  <_<

To be fair to you, he was very important in the early script.  That was the problem, his importance overshadowed Shepard and turned the latter into a glorified bodyguard and chauffer instead of a galactic hero.  That's why he was cut.  This is supposed to be Shepard's story after all.  You should be glad they decided to bring him back as DLC at all...

It is only confusing for someone who lacks understanding of how video games are made.  I don't blame casual gamers for that any more than I blame developers for wanting to provide an incentive to battle the used game market.  The game content on the disk is finalized long before even going gold when it's put in for certification.  That gap between then and release is when Day 1 DLC is finished, Bioware has told us this was the case of the Prothean DLC.

 I'm not saying I'm a fan of Day 1 DLC (Who is?) but I understand it.

[Il Divo]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They own their product, they created that product from scratch. You can call it a monopoly if wish (on that creation) but unless your in some strange world where you think everything should be owned by everyone and noone has copyright or ownership of anything they create then your point makes no sense. No one is ignoring anything you said, we are questioning (one of the things) you said and acknowledged you have a right to ask for the product on offer to include other things. You have no right to it, but you are within your rights to ask for it. The problem we all seem to have is in the other element of what your saying and not the aspect of right to say whats on your mind.

Pretty much. No one is stopping you from complaining, which is your right as a consumer to express where you think the product went wrong. It's this whole "Bioware has a monopoly!" business that buries the argument in an inescapable hole.

[Dragoonlordz]

moviebuff3000 wrote...

Bottom line is that if you dont like to pay the money than dont. Nobody from EA or Bioware is twisting your arms or putting a gun to your head to buy it. Since many people procrastinated ordering the CE than that is their own fault. CE's are always limited editions no matter what company they come from I thought people would have been smart enough to figure that out on their own. Be lucky you guys are actually getting the DLC at all and BW and EA didnt leave it just to the CE. You guys are so ungrateful to BW for making this game that all you do is complain about it and the DLC.

Who are you even talking to?

Don't just keep jumping in and making broad paint brush stroke generalisations because most of the people in here are actually defending Bioware with regard to the DLC issue. It makes it seem like you saw a thread title and jumped in guns blazing without reading the content of the thread.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 11:08 .

[BaronIveagh]

Well, the reason Game cancelled everyone's preorders has come to light: EA refused to sell any copies of ME3 to them when Game temporarily restructured their repayment system.

[SAARINEN]

There having issues with other companies as well, not just EA.

[BaronIveagh]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Who are you even talking to?

Don't just keep jumping in and making broad paint brush stroke generalisations because most of the people in here are actually defending Bioware with regard to the DLC issue. It makes it seem like you saw a thread title and jumped in guns blazing without reading the content of the thread.

That's pretty broad there yourself DL.  I'm willing to grant they deserve to be paid for DLC, but my beef is that tehy were highly boneheaded in thier planning of it.  They way they set things up does, indeed, seem at first glance  like all the things people are accusing them of, true or not.

SAARINEN wrote...

There having issues with other companies as well, not just EA.

True, but EA got to be the headliner because appearently they broke ranks first. 

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 29 février 2012 - 11:17 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Well, the reason Game cancelled everyone's preorders has come to light: EA refused to sell any copies of ME3 to them when Game temporarily restructured their repayment system.

GAME changed their policy, EA had the right to refuse to alter existing credit agreements. Just like Ubisoft and Nintendo also have done the same with GAME. Because GAME can no longer afford to have credit on vast quantities of stock which do not have enough to pay for or insurance to cover it all.

I would of done the same, if someone wanted to order stock from me I need to know I am covered incase they are not able to pay for it or I am not insured against them going default or out of business due to their loss of insurance status. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 11:18 .

[Ohpus]

What I am sure Bioware realizes already is that a lot of the forum post are knee-jerk reactions, people who don't know how the sausage is made, or trolls. This is not to say that there are not some points to be made, but the way many people here are making them are simply uncivil.

The Internet has empowered nerd rage. Long live the Internet. The majority of people are ignoring the town cryer and the village idiot because they can't tell the difference and...you know...have stuff to do.

Bioware had to know this was going to happen when they said the magic words "prothean" and "DLC" in the same sentence. But that is all they can be blamed for.

[BaronIveagh]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

GAME changed their policy, EA had the right to refuse to alter existing credit agreements. Just like Ubisoft and Nintendo also have done the same with GAME. Because GAME can no longer afford to have credit on vast quantities of stock which do not have enough to pay for or insurance to cover it all.

I would of done the same, if someone wanted to order stock from me I need to know I am covered incase they are not able to pay for it or I am not insured against them going default or out of business due to their loss of insurance status. 

Nice kneejerk defense of EA, but I was simply stating what happened, since there had been some question of it earlier with posters wondering why thier preorders had been cancelled suddenly.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 29 février 2012 - 11:20 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Who are you even talking to?

Don't just keep jumping in and making broad paint brush stroke generalisations because most of the people in here are actually defending Bioware with regard to the DLC issue. It makes it seem like you saw a thread title and jumped in guns blazing without reading the content of the thread.

That's pretty broad there yourself DL.  I'm willing to grant they deserve to be paid for DLC, but my beef is that tehy were highly boneheaded in thier planning of it.  They way they set things up does, indeed, seem at first glance  like all the things people are accusing them of, true or not.#

There is nothing wrong with how they set it up. Step 1. Advertise two products one with content additional to the other of which they pay more for including other items. 2. Create and provide that content. 3. Offer that content to people who buy the other product for price which in total comes to less than the opposing product.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Your preference for what you want as opposed to what they offer does not make them in the wrong.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 11:21 .

[SAARINEN]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Nice kneejerk defense of EA, but I was simply stating what happened, since there had been some question of it earlier with posters wondering why thier preorders had been cancelled suddenly.

True but the way in which your brought it up only showed light on EA , when in reality several other companies are having issues with GAME as well.  

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

GAME changed their policy, EA had the right to refuse to alter existing credit agreements. Just like Ubisoft and Nintendo also have done the same with GAME. Because GAME can no longer afford to have credit on vast quantities of stock which do not have enough to pay for or insurance to cover it all.

I would of done the same, if someone wanted to order stock from me I need to know I am covered incase they are not able to pay for it or I am not insured against them going default or out of business due to their loss of insurance status. 

Nice kneejerk defense of EA, but I was simply stating what happened, since there had been some question of it earlier with posters wondering why thier preorders had been cancelled suddenly.

There is an entire thread on the subject below, you posted it in here for a reason and that reason was to paint EA in a bad light. Using it to try to back up your argument that EA are evil and in the wrong because of your dislike towards how they handled the DLC. I pointed out more than one business did the same because not supplying stock to someone who lost insurance incase of default or unable to pay bills is a legitimate thing to do.

All of which I will point out has zero to do with (this) DLC and this thread. There is as a stretch only a small link in sense of (other) DLC being pre-order 'Warfare Pack' which will not be answered by EA till tomorrow (in another thread on 'that' DLC).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 11:29 .

[BaronIveagh]

[quote]Dragoonlordz wrote...
That's pretty broad there yourself DL.  I'm willing to grant they deserve to be paid for DLC, but my beef is that tehy were highly boneheaded in thier planning of it.  They way they set things up does, indeed, seem at first glance  like all the things people are accusing them of, true or not.#
[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with how they set it up. Step 1. Advertise two products one with content additional to the other of which they pay more for including other items. 2. Create and provide that content. 3. Offer that content to people who buy the other product for price which in total comes to less than the opposing product.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Your preference for what you want as opposed to what they offer does not make them in the wrong.

[/quote]

DL, that totally ignores the context of the object in question.  For example, culling the weak and genetically inferior members of a breed is considered perfectly acceptable and sounds completly reasonable when applied to chickens, but a crime against humanity when applied to people.  Withholding the context, you can make a whole lot of stuff sound like there is nothing wrong with it.


[quote]Dragoonlordz wrote...

There is an entire thread on the subject below, you posted it in here for a reason and that reason was to paint EA in abad light. Using it to try to back up your argument that EA are evil  and in the wrong because of your dislike towards how they handled the  DLC. I pointed out more than one business did the same because not  supplying stock to someone who lost insurance incase of default or  unable to pay bills is a legitimate thing to do.

All of which I  will point out has zero to do with (this) DLC and this thread. There is  as a stretch only a small link in sense of (other) DLC being pre-order  'Warfare Pack' which will not be answered by EA till tomorrow (in  another thread on 'that' DLC). [/quote]

Actually I posted it because I have this thread set to open automatically when I log in to the forums, and people had mentioned it in this thread before.  Had no idea that there was already an entire thread on GAME.

But thanks for proving my point abou context, btw.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 29 février 2012 - 11:34 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BaronIveagh wrote...

DL, that totally ignores the context of the object in question.  For example, culling the weak and genetically inferior members of a breed is considered perfectly acceptable and sounds completly reasonable when applied to chickens, but a crime against humanity when applied to people.  Withholding the context, you can make a whole lot of stuff sound like there is nothing wrong with it.

When you say in a thread about Ashes DLC the following...

Well, the reason Game cancelled everyone's preorders has come to light: EA refused to sell any copies of ME3 to them when Game temporarily restructured their repayment system. 

Context has nothing to do with it, read the post above your last one. Especially the last sentences which I said...

All of which I will point out has zero to do with (this) DLC and this thread. 

Also please fix your quotings.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 29 février 2012 - 11:38 .

[SovereignWillReturn]

At least they're not as bad as Blizzard/Activision guys.

40$ for the same multiplayer and lame 19 mission campaign when SC1 had all three campaigns?

And Diablo 3, where you spend 5 Dollars, (HALF OF FROM ASHES) just to get a magical sword?

I think 10 dolla is alright considering what other alternatives there are. And Bioware could have cut the character, since he was inside the mint game when it went gold. Separate devs are separate.

[BaronIveagh]

[quote]Dragoonlordz wrote...

All of which I will point out has zero to do with (this) DLC and this thread. [/quote]

[/quote]

And, again, since you're belaboring the point, I was unaware there was athread on it already, soemone had asked about it and I posted a response when I found an answer.

You know, talking to people instead of at them.  You should try it sometime.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 29 février 2012 - 11:53 .

[ArkkAngel007]

Lord Aesir wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Your first comparisons were closer to the mark.  From Ashes is not vital part of the Mass Effect 3 story or experience.  The fans are the only ones arbitrarily assigning that value to it.  It is indeed, nothing more than extra content.  I'd like to know where on earth you're getting the idea that they are somehow charging you for content necesary to complete the game.

You don't get it!  The character should be important!  BioWare should have done a better job in writing their own **** game. <_<

Ok, ribbing aside, I don't like the idea of Day 1 DLC, whether it's an offering from a CE to the SE owners or not.  It's confusing for customers, primarily the casual ones, that they go in to buy a product on its release date, only to find that there is more content available to be bought.  To me, that would be a bit confusing and frustrating, as I would expect the only content available should be the content on the retail disc.

However, the dramatic hyperbole, assumptions on how it was made, etc. aren't selling the argument.  

There's no reason this character needs to be important.  He isn't the Protheans, who have a signifigant part in the lore.  He is a single individual.  He is not a scientist or the leader of his people, he is a single soldier that doesn't even know about the research on Ilos.  Your confusing your own wants with what qualifies as good writing.  <_<

To be fair to you, he was very important in the early script.  That was the problem, his importance overshadowed Shepard and turned the latter into a glorified bodyguard and chauffer instead of a galactic hero.  That's why he was cut.  This is supposed to be Shepard's story after all.  You should be glad they decided to bring him back as DLC at all...

It is only confusing for someone who lacks understanding of how video games are made.  I don't blame casual gamers for that any more than I blame developers for wanting to provide an incentive to battle the used game market.  The game content on the disk is finalized long before even going gold when it's put in for certification.  That gap between then and release is when Day 1 DLC is finished, Bioware has told us this was the case of the Prothean DLC.

 I'm not saying I'm a fan of Day 1 DLC (Who is?) but I understand it.

I was poking fun at those who feel the need for him to be important in a sarcastic, bitter manner.  Hence the "pfft" face.

[DarthSliver]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

GAME changed their policy, EA had the right to refuse to alter existing credit agreements. Just like Ubisoft and Nintendo also have done the same with GAME. Because GAME can no longer afford to have credit on vast quantities of stock which do not have enough to pay for or insurance to cover it all.

I would of done the same, if someone wanted to order stock from me I need to know I am covered incase they are not able to pay for it or I am not insured against them going default or out of business due to their loss of insurance status. 

Nice kneejerk defense of EA, but I was simply stating what happened, since there had been some question of it earlier with posters wondering why thier preorders had been cancelled suddenly.

There is an entire thread on the subject below, you posted it in here for a reason and that reason was to paint EA in a bad light. Using it to try to back up your argument that EA are evil and in the wrong because of your dislike towards how they handled the DLC. I pointed out more than one business did the same because not supplying stock to someone who lost insurance incase of default or unable to pay bills is a legitimate thing to do.

All of which I will point out has zero to do with (this) DLC and this thread. There is as a stretch only a small link in sense of (other) DLC being pre-order 'Warfare Pack' which will not be answered by EA till tomorrow (in another thread on 'that' DLC).

Not to mention I read an article on it, GAME is essentially going out of business from what I understood. Everyone over in Europe/ UK are buying their games from Amazon.com

[Renegade133]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

At least they're not as bad as Blizzard/Activision guys.

40$ for the same multiplayer and lame 19 mission campaign when SC1 had all three campaigns?

And Diablo 3, where you spend 5 Dollars, (HALF OF FROM ASHES) just to get a magical sword?

I think 10 dolla is alright considering what other alternatives there are. And Bioware could have cut the character, since he was inside the mint game when it went gold. Separate devs are separate.

Your Wrong about starcraft 2 Starcraft  1 had 30 missions 10 per race now starcraft 2 has 30 missions just for terran and heart of the swarm will probably have 30ish for Zerg and so and so forth

[SovereignWillReturn]

Lets all just smile.

Modifié par SovereignWillReturn, 01 mars 2012 - 01:24 .

[GuyIncognito21]

After hearing some of the voice files for JarJa...errr... Javik, I'm not so concerned about not having the character anymore haha. Seems like a distraction. Hope the information presented is available though.