13369 réponses à ce sujet

[ArkkAngel007]

mogonk wrote...

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

Now, I'm not trying to start another argument with you or anyone else on this one but I'm actually a lttile confused by this particular topic and would like to hear your (and others) thoughts on it;

Many people are talking about how the Prothean was removed from the game because he didn't work for the story... ok, I get that. That happens often with a lot of content in games.

Now he's available as Day One DLC and can be intergrated back into the story.

Those 2 points don't add up to me. If the character had to be removed because he wasn't working with the story, why is he now DLC that intergrates with the story? Doesn't it potentially ruin the game's story if we add the Prothean back into it through the DLC?

If the character does actually work as part of the story, why was there a need to remove him completely in the first place? Was there no way to save him at the time with rewrites or whatever? It must have been a pretty big reason to have him removed but then suddenly in the remaining few months before release they were able to fix the problem?

What do you guys think?

What is this, critical thinking?

Next you'll be asking why the last surviving Prothean wouldn't be a major plot point, the absolute LAST thing you would cut from the story, given the role they play in the lore.

And I will not stand for that.  Cut it out.  Immediately.

The lore argument is rather stale at this point.  I'm not going to argue about the importance of the Protheans to the lore.  But there's a huge difference between what they did and just hauling a living Prothean into the plot of ME3 for the helluvit, when there really is no reason to.  

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 02 mars 2012 - 06:02 .

[NeecHMonkeY]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Because he doesn't add anything to the plot of ME3 at all. 

So he probably didn't need to be removed.

From what I've read, his removal was due to him not intergrating with the story and not for any actual technical issues.

Then, on the flip side of that I read that he was always intended as DLC and if that's the case there wouldn't be a need to remove him from the main game in the first place because he wouldn't have been a part of it.

... and we know that he was actually removed from the game because he exists in the script that was leaked before the game was finished.

I appreciate your answer but it still doesn't make any kind of sense to me.

Modifié par NeecHMonkeY, 02 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[ZX12r Ninja]

mogonk wrote...

I just said I wasn't going to buy it and explained why.

I seriously begin to wonder if you guys read the posts you reply to.

Okay, great for you, problem solved, lets move on. Why are you still here making absurd hypotheticals about murder?

mogonk wrote...

What is this, critical thinking?

Next
you'll be asking why the last surviving Prothean wouldn't be a major
plot point, the absolute LAST thing you would cut from the story, given
the role they play in the lore.

And I will not stand for that.  Cut it out.  Immediately.

You are not an artist.
You are not a writer.
You do not work at Bioware.
You do not work at EA.
You did not write the script.
You are a nobody compared to the professionals who did write the script.
You cannot determine what is important.
You cannot determine who or what to cut or not to cut from the script.
You do not know anything about this DLC.
You do not know anything about this importance of the Prothean within the story.
Just because you want him to be important does not make him important.
Just because you want him to be a major plot point does not make him a major plot point.
You are entitled to your own opinion but that opinion how misinformed it maybe is yours and yours alone.
You do not have any information about the game, the DLC and it's contens.
You are just speculating about what could and in your opinion maybe should happen.

Stop complaining and get over it, at this point you are just repeating yourself and rehashing what's already been discussed.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 02 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[Grandpadandyy]

Hear this;

In Australia, it's $110 for the standard edition.
It's something like 60-70 in America.
We both have to pay to get From Ashes, yet we aussies pay 120, where Americans pay 70-80.
See a difference?

WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?

[CommanderCoffee]

Grandpadandyy wrote...

Hear this;

In Australia, it's $110 for the standard edition.
It's something like 60-70 in America.
We both have to pay to get From Ashes, yet we aussies pay 120, where Americans pay 70-80.
See a difference?

WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?

IT'S A PROTHEAN CANCELLING PRE-ORDER

[Evilelf007]

I'm surprised there are still people complaining at all. Oh well, to each their own! I'm just counting down the time until Tuesday!

3 days, 23 hours, 40 minutes and 2 seconds! (I look at my Me3 countdown app on my android far too often! lol)

Modifié par Evilelf007, 02 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[mogonk]

Grandpadandyy wrote...
WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?

Well, not the money.  Did you actually think the reason people were complaining was the money?

Come on, dude.  Read the posts if you're going to reply to them.

[LinksOcarina]

mogonk wrote...

Grandpadandyy wrote...
WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?

Well, not the money.  Did you actually think the reason people were complaining was the money?

Come on, dude.  Read the posts if you're going to reply to them.

I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of people were miffed because of the extra cost, just as much as the fact the character is a Prothean. 

The money issue I can sort of understand a bit, but even then the fact that it is an optional piece of DLC makes it excusable, where our timeless rallying cry of "if you don't want to buy it, you don't have to" comes into play.

Or as I like to call it, common sense.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 02 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[Jehovahkin]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of people were miffed because of the extra cost, just as much as the fact the character is a Prothean. 

The money issue I can sort of understand a bit, but even then the fact that it is an optional piece of DLC makes it excusable, where our timeless rallying cry of "if you don't want to buy it, you don't have to" comes into play.

Or as I like to call it, common sense.

Oh, so am I to understand that if Bioware decided to sell each and every companion as seperate DLC for Mass Effect 3 on day 1, you would be fine with it, since you don't HAVE to buy it. If Bioware decided to sell the multiplayer as DLC on day one, you would be fine with it since you don't HAVE to buy it. Hell, why not sell the ending as DLC as well? You don't HAVE to buy it.

Yes, we know we don't have to buy it, our point is you don't have to buy into their greed either, let alone make excuses for them. If Mcdonalds start selling you sitting locations at their branches, you can call them out on it, even if Ronald Mcdonald himself gaurantees you that if you don't want to, you don't have to buy a seat and go sit on the floor outside. Real Mcdonalds fans buy sitting locations. 

[ZX12r Ninja]

Jehovahkin wrote...

Oh, so am I to understand that if Bioware decided to sell each and every companion as seperate DLC for Mass Effect 3 on day 1, you would be fine with it, since you don't HAVE to buy it. If Bioware decided to sell the multiplayer as DLC on day one, you would be fine with it since you don't HAVE to buy it. Hell, why not sell the ending as DLC as well? You don't HAVE to buy it.

Yes, we know we don't have to buy it, our point is you don't have to buy into their greed either, let alone make excuses for them. If Mcdonalds start selling you sitting locations at their branches, you can call them out on it, even if Ronald Mcdonald himself gaurantees you that if you don't want to, you don't have to buy a seat and go sit on the floor outside. Real Mcdonalds fans buy sitting locations. 

As long as the story is complete and lives upto the epic expectation then I have no problem with it whatsoever.

[Evilelf007]

If there was no DLC AT ALL, the Prothean character simply would not exist as a squad mate.

This is not content that was removed just for sales, it is content post game development.

Why do people not get that it takes 2-3 months from submitting for certification to going gold? Once a game is submitted for certification, it cannot be changed... period.

AFTER the game was submitted for certification, THAT is when the work started on the DLC.

[Jehovahkin]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

As long as the story is complete and lives upto the epic expectation then I have no problem with it whatsoever.

We are talking about RPGs. you could cut 80% of the plot from most of them and still be left with a complete story but it's the whole package that makes them awesome. Hell, I could cut parts of the actual plot and you could still argue you get a complete story. If I were to cut the 2nd fight with Saren, on the Citadel, and sell it to you as DLC on day one, would that be fine? You don't actually have to fight him a 2nd time to get the complete story. Just think of it as "From Saren's Ashes". 

[LinksOcarina]

Jehovahkin wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of people were miffed because of the extra cost, just as much as the fact the character is a Prothean. 

The money issue I can sort of understand a bit, but even then the fact that it is an optional piece of DLC makes it excusable, where our timeless rallying cry of "if you don't want to buy it, you don't have to" comes into play.

Or as I like to call it, common sense.

Oh, so am I to understand that if Bioware decided to sell each and every companion as seperate DLC for Mass Effect 3 on day 1, you would be fine with it, since you don't HAVE to buy it. If Bioware decided to sell the multiplayer as DLC on day one, you would be fine with it since you don't HAVE to buy it. Hell, why not sell the ending as DLC as well? You don't HAVE to buy it.

Yes, we know we don't have to buy it, our point is you don't have to buy into their greed either, let alone make excuses for them. If Mcdonalds start selling you sitting locations at their branches, you can call them out on it, even if Ronald Mcdonald himself gaurantees you that if you don't want to, you don't have to buy a seat and go sit on the floor outside. Real Mcdonalds fans buy sitting locations. 

Your argument is invalid for three reasons.

1) They will never make every character a DLC type of thing because it will not sell a hard copy of the game, and no one will buy it. It will also affect the development of story and content in-game heavily to do that. endings and multiplayer too. It would cost too much money to fragment teams like that to make everything downloadable because they would have to develop it after the core game was released. Even cut content is usually re-worked in some form before it gets shipped out again.

2) Everything you said above is supposition. No company or publisher has gone so far as to sell you things like that, except Bethesda which created an ending to Fallout 3 because people ****ed about the ending so much. Bad DLC is common, but bad dlc is usually very easy to spot. Horse Armor, 2 dollar shotguns, Costume packs, 3 multiplayer maps with no perks or weapons added to the mix. That is just a few examples. 

Now look at the track record here so far. One-two extra characters to play as in-game. Extra story missions and weapons involved, upgrades to purchase and new items to collect. Usually all lumped together in a pack for 2-3 bucks. One thing I actually respect is the fact that, other than the cosume packs which served no purpose, BioWare has been putting out quality DLC for the most part. A lot of it is story-driven, and the extra bits are fun and usually reasonably prices, like 2 bucks for new weapons as an example. 

3) Your comparison to McDonalds is, well, stupid. In fact, its a false comparison because it has no purpose other than to make an argument out of what you believe. Typical straw-man stuff.


ETA

So now, facts for you.

1. It takes 2-4 months for a game to go gold, in that time companies can start working on DLC since it it outside of typical development cycles.

2. Cut content happens a lot, the scripts change and during production things get removed when they don't fit the story or are just not working. 

3. The character was an early concept for the main game, but was cut because they found it didn't work. They decided to make it the Day 1 DLC for the game as an extra for fans and for those who bought the CE. 

4. There is no evidence of it being in-game, and being integral to the overall plot. From Ashes will be filler material and the character, while cool and all, is not needed to beat the reapers.

5. The proof of this has been said ad-nauseum, basically some assets are left on the hard copy to make transition for DLC easier; markers basically that are datamined. Things like the voice over and maybe animations of a character are left there because they would be all over the game. 

6. Pre-production on titles usually go through phases anyway; so if the Prothean was featured heavily in early drafts, it does not mean it was featured in the game in that capacity in the final product. Any good movie does that, actually, they change the script around with re-writes when it is appropriate. Lord of the Rings is a famous example.

So take that all in for a moment and think about it. I am sure it makes sense now.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 02 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[gigiduru]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

As long as the story is complete and lives upto the epic expectation then I have no problem with it whatsoever.

You are missing the point . The story will be complete no matter what . We are just talking that we don't get all the lore and the neccesary info about it . I'll try and give an example :

Lets take Lord of the Rings ( the movie ) . I think most of the sci fi fans here have seen both the normal edition and the extended one . While the ending is the same in both movies ( DUH ! ) , the extended version gives you more insight on the story . Now lets get deeper into this . Lets say for example that you went into a cinema and at the front desk you would see :
LotR normal - 15$ ;
LotR extended - 20$  ( on premiere day )
 I think most of you would be WTF? why don't they show the whole movie as one version and why are they doing this split .  

Most ppl here polute this thread with arguments about the cost and that ppl that didn't buy the CE aren't fans . Unfortunetly they completly miss the point . TB covers that very well in his youtube videos , bc most gamers are sad and pissed about one simple thing : Day 1 DLC is wrong ! .
Do not accuse us of not having and extra 10$ for the DLC .
Do not accuse us of not being true fans .
Do not accuse us of wanting free stuff .
Accuse us for wanting  the truth out of this !

Modifié par gigiduru, 02 mars 2012 - 07:11 .

[Jehovahkin]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Your argument is invalid for three reasons.

1) They will never make every character a DLC type of thing because it will not sell a hard copy of the game, and no one will buy it. It will also affect the development of story and content in-game heavily to do that. endings and multiplayer too.

2) Everything you said above is supposition. No company or publisher has gone so far as to sell you things like that, except Bethesda which created an ending to Fallout 3 because people ****ed about the ending so much. Bad DLC is common, but bad dlc is usually very easy to spot. Horse Armor, 2 dollar shotguns, Costume packs, 3 multiplayer maps with no perks or weapons added to the mix. That is just a few examples. 

Now look at the track record here so far. One-two extra characters to play as in-game. Extra story missions and weapons involved, upgrades to purchase and new items to collect. Usually all lumped together in a pack for 2-3 bucks. One thing I actually respect is the fact that, other than the cosume packs which served no purpose, BioWare has been putting out quality DLC for the most part. A lot of it is story-driven, and the extra bits are fun and usually reasonably prices, like 2 bucks for new weapons as an example. 

3) Your comparison to McDonalds is, well, stupid. In fact, its a false comparison because it has no purpose other than to make an argument out of what you believe. Typical straw-man stuff.

You have broadly missed the point and your shot has landed on a galaxy far far away. You claimed that if one doesn't want to buy it, one doesn't have to. I demonstrated how that is easily debunked by the fact you wouldn't use the same argument for other things, even though it's perfectally applicable for them. It's irrelevent if they wouldn't do the other things because it wouldn't be profitable for them, the question is whether your argument stands, and it doesn't. 

Also, I do look at Bioware's track record and it's abysmal. I don't think I've seen a company prostitute their own products as much as Bioware does, whether by creating NPCs asking for $ or offering DLC that then negates a part of the game such as weapons and armors that make upgrading your squad meaningless. 

And are your automated shill responses broken or something? How do you write this - 

LinksOcarina wrote... 

Bad DLC is common, but bad dlc is usually very easy to spot... 2 dollar shotguns, Costume packs, 3 multiplayer maps with no perks or weapons added to the mix. That is just a few examples.  

 

And then this? 

LinksOcarina wrote... 
BioWare has been putting out quality DLC for the most part. A lot of it is story-driven, and the extra bits are fun and usually reasonably prices, like 2 bucks for new weapons as an example.  

 

I think you might need a rest from blindly defending Bioware, to maybe get a bit of perspective on things. 

Edit - argh, we are going to start editing to reply to edit now, its going to be a mess :happy:

LinksOcarina wrote...  

ETA

So now, facts for you.

 


I know the company line man, here are a few facts for you - 

1) Zaeed and Shale were the same and didn't require $10.

2) Other companies, with arguablly less resources are capable of producing day 1 content for free. 

Obviously they CAN charge for it, couldn't we, as consumers, point to business practices we see in other companies which don't exploit us, but in fact, reward us and perhaps suggest we would rather Bioware acts the same?

Modifié par Jehovahkin, 02 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[CommanderCoffee]

gigiduru wrote...



Most ppl here polute this thread with arguments about the cost and that ppl that didn't buy the CE aren't fans . Unfortunetly they completly miss the point . TB covers that very well in his youtube videos , bc most gamers are sad and pissed about one simple thing : Day 1 DLC is wrong ! .

Opinion. It may be wrong to you, but to others, it's a legitamate business practice. Total Biscuit presents his entire shpiel as if it were an expose, but it's laregly his opinion on the matter. Seems like you have the same opinion as him.

I don't even think most gamers are all that pissed about it. There may be a ton that are annoyed, but certainly they aren't yelling for equalization.

Modifié par CommanderCoffee, 02 mars 2012 - 07:22 .

[Evilelf007]

I cannot and will not subscribe to the flatley used phrase around here - "Day one DLC is wrong!"

IMO, day 1 dlc is no different than day 103 dlc... as long as the dlc is quality, worth while and adds to an already great game... bring it on!

[Jo-shee]

gigiduru wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

As long as the story is complete and lives upto the epic expectation then I have no problem with it whatsoever.

You are missing the point . The story will be complete no matter what . We are just talking that we don't get all the lore and the neccesary info about it . I'll try and give an example :

Lets take Lord of the Rings ( the movie ) . I think most of the sci fi fans here have seen both the normal edition and the extended one . While the ending is the same in both movies ( DUH ! ) , the extended version gives you more insight on the story . Now lets get deeper into this . Lets say for example that you went into a cinema and at the front desk you would see :
LotR normal - 15$ ;
LotR extended - 20$  ( on premiere day )
 I think most of you would be WTF? why don't they show the whole movie as one version and why are they doing this split .  

Most ppl here polute this thread with arguments about the cost and that ppl that didn't buy the CE aren't fans . Unfortunetly they completly miss the point . TB covers that very well in his youtube videos , bc most gamers are sad and pissed about one simple thing : Day 1 DLC is wrong ! .
Do not accuse us of not having and extra 10$ for the DLC .
Do not accuse us of not being true fans .
Do not accuse us of wanting free stuff .
Accuse us for wanting  the truth out of this !

unless someone has evidence please show me but for now think about this. This was originally coming out for the CE aka the mysterious squadmate we were getting till he was leaked or w/e. There has been so many demands for the CE that so few people would have been able to get the prothean. Afterwards they announce that you can download him on xbox live marketplace etc, and that would result in players who couldn't get the CE to be able to obtain him like myself. now i know its day 1 dlc and "thats stupid he should have been in the game anyway!"..... well he wasn't going to be so why are people getting so upset over this. im excited that i can now get him because i would not have been able to otherwise. and if money is the big problem then i dont see what everyone is freaking out about.... you don't have to get him the second you get the game, and if you only have enough to get the game then try doing some extra chores, like mow your neighbors lawn, if your to old for that then i assume you would have a job and money cant be that big of a factor... i just want everyone to understand this quickly.. if you go out somewhere to eat or you by something within the next couple of days before ME3 comes out just think that you could have saved that money and got the dlc.

[gigiduru]

Evilelf007 wrote...

I cannot and will not subscribe to the flatley used phrase around here - "Day one DLC is wrong!"

IMO, day 1 dlc is no different than day 103 dlc... as long as the dlc is quality, worth while and adds to an already great game... bring it on!

Well then as a company you would be my favourite kind of customer .  And so they will make this kind of games for you :

- Basic game -> 60$
- 1st aditional comp -> 10$
- 2nd aditional comp -> 10$
- bonus rifle pack -> 5$ 
- bonus powers ->5$
- bonus ending for those who have the aditional companions -> 10$ 
and i could go for ever . 

Let me be clear on this . All of the above are OK and NORMAL for day 90 and above DLC , but for day 1 they are just another method of milking the consumer and a total rip-off . 

[Evilelf007]

Keep in mind here guys... the fact that there is after completion dlc has actually fought off standard inflation rates as well.

By now, standard games should be well into the $80's if inflation had affected games the same rate as everything else we buy. The fact that these developers can make money off of these games after initial market release, has allowed the base game price to remain at $60!

[Evilelf007]

gigiduru wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

I cannot and will not subscribe to the flatley used phrase around here - "Day one DLC is wrong!"

IMO, day 1 dlc is no different than day 103 dlc... as long as the dlc is quality, worth while and adds to an already great game... bring it on!

Well then as a company you would be my favourite kind of customer .  And so they will make this kind of games for you :

- Basic game -> 60$
- 1st aditional comp -> 10$
- 2nd aditional comp -> 10$
- bonus rifle pack -> 5$ 
- bonus powers ->5$
- bonus ending for those who have the aditional companions -> 10$ 
and i could go for ever . 

Let me be clear on this . All of the above are OK and NORMAL for day 90 and above DLC , but for day 1 they are just another method of milking the consumer and a total rip-off . 

So, you'd be completely content if they developed the dlc after they completed the game... and even had it ready on day 1, but decided to sit on it for 90 days just to prevent day 1 dlc?

I'm sorry if I'd rather have it sooner than later!

[gigiduru]

Evilelf007 wrote...

gigiduru wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

I cannot and will not subscribe to the flatley used phrase around here - "Day one DLC is wrong!"

IMO, day 1 dlc is no different than day 103 dlc... as long as the dlc is quality, worth while and adds to an already great game... bring it on!

Well then as a company you would be my favourite kind of customer .  And so they will make this kind of games for you :

- Basic game -> 60$
- 1st aditional comp -> 10$
- 2nd aditional comp -> 10$
- bonus rifle pack -> 5$ 
- bonus powers ->5$
- bonus ending for those who have the aditional companions -> 10$ 
and i could go for ever . 

Let me be clear on this . All of the above are OK and NORMAL for day 90 and above DLC , but for day 1 they are just another method of milking the consumer and a total rip-off . 

So, you'd be completely content if they developed the dlc after they completed the game... and even had it ready on day 1, but decided to sit on it for 90 days just to prevent day 1 dlc?

I'm sorry if I'd rather have it sooner than later!

So you would pay extra 30$ for the complete version of the game ... n/c. 

[RDSFirebane]

gigiduru wrote...

- Basic game -> 60$
- 1st aditional comp -> 10$
- 2nd aditional comp -> 10$
- bonus rifle pack -> 5$ 
- bonus powers ->5$
- bonus ending for those who have the aditional companions -> 10$ 
and i could go for ever . 

Let me be clear on this . All of the above are OK and NORMAL for day 90 and above DLC , but for day 1 they are just another method of milking the consumer and a total rip-off . 

ya you cant say its not ok simply because of time sir that makes no since with the way you say it your getting

milked no matter what you would just have it done later on instead of right now. no matter what you end up paying

more then the basic game time shouldnt factor into it at all. but thats just my in put.

[Evilelf007]

I did already pay $20 more for the CE, knowing that it had day one dlc+.

I think my stance is already pretty obvious! Bioware has a great history for great games even without any dlc involved... The dlc they add is usually pretty damned good compared to other developers, and for the most part, well worth the extra cost.

If Bioware was making crappy games, then sure I'd have a problem with day 1 dlc, as they should have spend more time developing the core game to begin with. With Bioware, that isn't the case... the core game is GoTY quality!

[Jo-shee]

RDSFirebane wrote...

gigiduru wrote...

- Basic game -> 60$
- 1st aditional comp -> 10$
- 2nd aditional comp -> 10$
- bonus rifle pack -> 5$ 
- bonus powers ->5$
- bonus ending for those who have the aditional companions -> 10$ 
and i could go for ever . 

Let me be clear on this . All of the above are OK and NORMAL for day 90 and above DLC , but for day 1 they are just another method of milking the consumer and a total rip-off . 

ya you cant say its not ok simply because of time sir that makes no since with the way you say it your getting

milked no matter what you would just have it done later on instead of right now. no matter what you end up paying

more then the basic game time shouldnt factor into it at all. but thats just my in put.

and i completely stand by your input