13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Draconis6666]

mogonk wrote...


And
when consumers choose to reward companies whose business model affects
them adversely, what part of the rational self interest assumed in
economic theory is that, exactly?

They do it every day thats why this argument is so absured, I would be you almost everyone complaining about this allows companies to rip them off or even do almost the exact same they are complaining about on a regular basis without ranting about it. 

Did you complain about being charged for extra for options in your car? they were built with the car afterall so why would you pay extra for them. Now you will come in and say that its not the same thing, but it is. Its the same business practice but in a dfiferent industry where people have decided its acceptable to do that, but now your saying its not acceptable for some other industry to do the same thing. There are things that are actualy needed for your daily life where corporations and companies nickle and dime you to death and outright exploit you wiht prices and costs that are created simply to give them rediculous profit margins and no one outrages and complains.  Suddenly deciding to because of a game doing it is rediculous, if your going to boycott this game because they charged you for additional features that didnt come with the game. Then you need to go boycott automotive sales and tons of other industries too because the problem you believe exists is not just with EA and Bioware and their business model and its arrogant of you to assume that you can hold them to a different standard than you hold other industries and expect them to comply with your wishes simply because you do.

If you want to speak out and stop rewarding companies who exploit consumers and use unfair business models to milk people for money then sure go for it but do it all the way dont half-ass it or your just wasting your breath and not changing anything.

[xlI ReFLeX lIx]

It's funny 'cause 9 out of 10 of these people are going to buy the DLC.. no matter what they say. It's easy to say "Pre order canceled" or "I'm not buying this DLC for sure" or "Goodbye BioWare I was a long time fan but I will not support or buy ME3" but oh you'll see..

[Takamori The Templar]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...



And Valve charges 9.99 for this:   



people are getting a greater deal off hours of content for the same price. 

Now sir explain , what it affects my gameplay or other people gameplay.
Btw you can get it in game without paying, so where is your damn argument?

[Yuoaman]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Do you guys have to toss insults around in here, neither side is being helped by it.

Who cares "pro-bioware" already won because BioWare will not change and I think most people know it (or I hope at least). This is just a good excuse for people to trash each other nothing more nothing else.

Bioware only wins this fight if we stop fighting it, and I'm not going to stop.

[RiouHotaru]

Revna Shan wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Wow, two posts from the team, and they go completely ignored.

One post and it had nothing of substance.

Uhhh...Stanley's posts explains it perfectly, and then Casey's twitter sealed the deal.

Oddly enough, someone dug up this thread which disproved that.

http://social.biowar...index/7551111/1

A BioWare staff member (Chris) posts in it (9 months ago).  It's about
the Prothean Squad Member which was according to Casey, not worked on until
after the game finished this January.  Obviously, the Prothean had been
planned for well over a year.

What likely happened is they had a hard deadline for the game.  Held off
on the most DLC appealing character (the Prothean) so they could get it done and shipped
for March, with the intention to add that character into the game by launch via
DLC.  It just so happens a character that was always intended to be in the
completed product is now costing us money.  That's my take on it anyway.

This sets an extremely dangerous precedent in regards to DLC.  If they were smart, they would have waited 4-5 months to announce this DLC and no one would have been the wiser.

All that means is that they had concept for him, maybe some artwork.  "Helf off" implies they delayed it on purpose, but it's obvious they didn't even START doing proper work (outside of VA lines and dialog) until recently, as evidenced by the twitters.  We know the team was pretty much working on ME3 non-stop until just recently.

I don't see how waiting 4-5 months would've mattered, it would've taken them the same amount of time to finish and they'd STILL charge people.  Also, they already promised CE buyers a free squadmate.

[Calians]

Not buying it, this game is the absolute last game I buy from Bioware and anything EA

[nickkcin11]

V1per7 wrote...

nickkcin11 wrote...

V1per7 wrote...

mranderson25 wrote...

mogonk wrote...

No, no.  You misunderstood.  Nobody thinks Bioware will stop making products.  We just think they'll stop making good products...because they already have.

Let's see, we have a WoW clone, DA2 (LOLOLOL), and now this.  What exactly seperates Bioware from **** developers like Epic Games at this point?

So ME3 is terrible then? Since you've played it, i'd love to hear all about it. What did you love? What did you hate? How was the ending? Was the extra character really important to the story, or did he end up just having random extra content?

i just i just witness a newborn race with an IQ of less than a rock and the brain the size of a dirt.....

I don't even care what he said. "and the brain the size of a dirt..." You can't insult people when you write like that.

of course, because you're too stupid to even understand it. my bad. move along

Riiiiight. Says the man who has spent the entire time on this thread making well thought out posts like, "You don't agree with me! You're stupid as a dirt!" Yeah, great job. God forbid people don't feel strongly about $10 and DLC. Really, $10.00. I could see if people were getting pissed if it were more and I know where your argument is coming from. It's pretty ****ty of BW to do this. But in the end it's just $10 ! You don't need to get so pissed over ten measly dollars.

[Takamori The Templar]

But w/e let the company sink, just like TORtanic.
The old fans tried to advice , but they won't listen anyway.

[Holoe4]

Pretty nice, this also clears up a lot o' misunderstandings about this DLC since it was done by another team and was completed after ME3 went into certification. I hope this eases some peoples' minds :3

Plus I really like alternate squad appearances, makes it feel like my little own custom team

[AlphaJarmel]

suntzuxi wrote...

This I have to disagree. Bioware is never a good game developer beyond Baldur's Gate days. their games are all about storytelling and characters, and to be fair they are incompetent to design good gameplay that will appeal to everyone. That's why they keep changing the gameplay elements and I am personally fine with it, especially I liked dragon age 2 somehow.

I would disagree KOTOR had good gameplay and Jade Empire too to a certain extent.

[Draconis6666]

Calians wrote...

Not buying it, this game is the absolute last game I buy from Bioware and anything EA

Have fun with activision and its $80 games then or I guess you can wait 4+ years between decent releases from developers not owned by one of the two.

[Sargerus]

Calians wrote...

Not buying it, this game is the absolute last game I buy from Bioware and anything EA

Amazing how you managed to condradict yourself at this level

[FlameChucks]

Looking at the thread it's hard to believe that there isn't any real attempt on Bioware's part to turn down the fires that are raging here over this announcement.

When i found out that the extra character was going to be a Prothean, i couldn't believe it. This is ultimately the source of overall rage in regards to this DLC announcement. So far all DLC's offered have been extra weapons or armor's, which is acceptable as a DLC construct. However, this new character being Prothean is one of the more offensive things you can hold back from a customer who is purchasing the game new. This is a character who has so much lore into the overall series that cutting him out is essentially making him/her nothing more than just another character almost in the same vein as Kasumi or Zaeed.

When you consider that this character, his race, is the basis to why Shepard knows so much about the Reapers is almost like pouring salt into the wound. Up until now we had no real idea what the Protheans looked like or if they were still alive, and just out of nowhere here is one just ready to be your squad mate.

My biggest problem now is that i have this game pre-ordered, and it's the CE edition. While this shouldn't give me any reason to really complain, then what about everybody else? The fact that this character was announced months ahead of time could only signify that he is an almost essential part of the story. Bioware plays it off like it's no real problem stating that there's already a lot of game in the retail release, While this may be true, it doesn't seem fair or righteous to hold such a prestigious and mysterious character from all those who own't be able to grab a CE copy. Ultimately you are making people feel like fools for either investing in either Regular or CE edition of the game because ultimately, you are making someone such as myself feel like i paid 80 or 60 dollars for an incomplete product.

Now, i hope they don't come out and say that he has no real relevance to the story, because at that point i may as well cancel the game. The protheans are the very reason why everything that has been happening in the last two games has occurred, but not only that, they give context to the situation. The reapers are finally attacking earth and here we have maybe the last prothean in the galaxy. Again, it's all speculation as far as how this character plays into the story, but personally, i find it real shameful to place this kind of character in that type of category of just being an addition to the game.

Just image in you will, a character like Legion was held back from the game and instead of Kasumi being the DLC it was Legion that would be purchasable. Legion is a Geth..............the geth have been one of your primary enemies since the beginning, and not only that, given the tension between the Geth and the Quarians, the overall complications of having him in your squad with Tali are nearly drama gold.

Either way.....i know it's too late down the pipeline for Bioware to really do anything at this point. Then again, this isn't something that EA would tell them to hold back. Bioware could have created a completely separate character from a different race and still could have gotten away with it, but being that this character is prothean...........well...........it just changes the overall dynamic of the game as well as it's overall value to a regular consumer.

[nitefyre410]

xlI ReFLeX lIx wrote...

It's funny 'cause 9 out of 10 of these people are going to buy the DLC.. no matter what they say. It's easy to say "Pre order canceled" or "I'm not buying this DLC for sure" or "Goodbye BioWare I was a long time fan but I will not support or buy ME3" but oh you'll see..

 

the only difference is whether I come back  to buy another  Bioware product  again...

Not saying yes I will not saying no I won't...  but  I am going to think about  it.

and I haven't  made up made my mind  on buying the DLC either... I might just say it ****  take my 10 bucks and got to Burger King and get me Double Whopper meal   Bacon and Cheese , go about my way and play  Mass Effect 3...its all very up in the air at  this point.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 23 février 2012 - 02:58 .

[XqctaX]

El Ejcovero wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Once again you have no proof if the content was taken out of the game. CE content needed to be create as soon as the core of the game was done. Core mean being able to play and complete the game. You don't need to have texture/sound/cinematic/animation and all that ready yet to start building DLC with a team.

The fact completed game content exists outside the game on release means it should be in the game. Therefore, it should be part of the core game or included in the package of a new release.

as of now all FACTS point at this "from ashes" content beeing made for CE ONLY,
and later on decided to be available to buyers of SE via DLC aswell. 

point beeing if they didnt decide to make an extra character for CE,
there might never have been a "Proethan" at all in the game.
and that might have made you happier by knowing less,  
but knowing the choises between these scenarios, I prefer that anyone that wants can enrich there experience with a extra character should they want to.

this hole thread is mostly based on pessimisic, entitelment fuled speculation 

/quote]se_moderation.j

[Shadowrun1177]

 I really can't help but laugh at all the ranting by people in this thread. People who ordered the CE are paying an extra $20 for so aren't really getting this for free if you really think about it. Yet people are gonna complain about paying an extra $10 for a dlc character, extra squad outfits, weapon, and mission. Honestly both groups in my opinion are getting a pretty good deal when it all comes down too cause I bet stuff like the N7 patch, lithograph, and art book would typically run the cost up too more then the $20 those of us so ordered the CE are paying.

[Bad Sandwidge]

The fact that BioWare apparently didn't see this reaction coming or even worse, knew it was coming but went ahead anyway is more worrying to me than whether or not the content was designed in the last three months. The first shows ignorance and the second sets dangerous trends. Every time they release a new game they take the ****** just a little bit more.

[Crackseed]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...



And Valve charges 9.99 for this:   



people are getting a greater deal off hours of content for the same price. 

Now sir explain , what it affects my gameplay or other people gameplay.
Btw you can get it in game without paying, so where is your damn argument?

Where is your argument? Whether it's a cosmetic upgrade, weapon or an optional character, your ME3 game at purchase is complete and playable w/o any loss of awesome. The Prothean exists to enhance that experience IF you choose to purchase it, just as much as buying a weapon for a shooter or cosmetic upgrades in EVE Online enhance those games. It doesn't matter that you're placing extra importance on the Prothean because of his lore status - it is STILL optional and your original gameplay experience is not hurt by his absence.

[Draconis6666]

Yuoaman wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Do you guys have to toss insults around in here, neither side is being helped by it.

Who cares "pro-bioware" already won because BioWare will not change and I think most people know it (or I hope at least). This is just a good excuse for people to trash each other nothing more nothing else.

Bioware only wins this fight if we stop fighting it, and I'm not going to stop.

Bioware already won this fight because they will make millions on the game from people who never even knew the fight existed.

[RohanDaKitty]

V1per7 wrote...

RohanDaKitty wrote...

V1per7 wrote...

RohanDaKitty wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

Ignotis wrote...

Spending 60$ on a less then amazing singleplayer game? Pushing it.

Tacking on day one 10$ DLC on top of a inflated price for a mediocre single player game when it could be patched in? Too far

Valve released TF2, one of the best shooters of this decade for no more than 30$ or part of the orange box, another incredible deal. They then make it cheaper, enable free weekends for people to play it, make it LESS THAN A DOLLAR AT ONE POINT, then eventually make the game free.

Seeing what bioware is doing, they must be out of touch with the current market. Inflated prices coupled with excessive dlc isn't the rage these days, nor is subscription based MMO's. B2P, f2p, developers patching a game as a duty TO the fanbase is. The more incredibly greedy your business model gets the more you are only going to shoot yourself in the foot.

Because Valve is making ALOT off of Hat DLC.

Exactly. Off of hats

BioWare and EA took a the goodwill and affection players have for their universe and puts a $10 price tag on it.

hey idiot, does HATS part of an epic race? does the hat effect how the game played? does the hat create a whole new prespective on the whole TF universe? does the hat add any additional game?!?!

if they released a content for Shepard to wear a hat on release and i dont get it, I DONT CARE!!

this DLC is about a Prothean! an extinct race that faced the end of time by the reaper!!! its not just a HAT!!!

Wow, you're way off the mark there buddy! That was exactly my point!

Valve's idea of DLC, is Hats. Silly Hats and Weapons. What EA and BioWare did, was take a big part of the Mass Effect lore, the Prothen's, and place a $10 price tag on it.

That's what I meant in my original post. Ea and BioWare are cashing in on players affection for their universe.

Valve cash in on peoples affection for fashionable headwear.

if EA/bioware make money out of selling shoes, and gloves for shepard to wear. GOOD FOR THEM!

but taking a piece of an epic story and universe and selling it for seperate so called "DLC" is not right!

I agree, 100%.

How did they think it was okay to do that? To take a core tennant of the Mass Effect lore and make people pay for it?

it'd be like Flemeth being a party member in Dragon Age III, only you have to pay for her...

It's seriously impacted my trust of both BioWare and EA as they sink to new lows. How do they expect me to emotionally invest in a new IP or a continued series when now there's a precedent of them trying to monetise on that connection and affection. 

[NubXL]

I think this is important enough to include in the base game, and I also don't believe your claim that it was created recently. If I remember correctly, it was revealed in the leaked files from last November, which you guys claimed was "really old".

[Farbautisonn]

xlI ReFLeX lIx wrote...

It's funny 'cause 9 out of 10 of these people are going to buy the DLC.. no matter what they say. It's easy to say "Pre order canceled" or "I'm not buying this DLC for sure" or "Goodbye BioWare I was a long time fan but I will not support or buy ME3" but oh you'll see..

Hell im buying the CE download and ill likely buy any following DLCs too. But they had better make up for it storywise.

Because I buy bioware products for the storytelling. Not the pew pew. Bio was built on storytelling, not pew pew.


If ME3 turns out to be DA2 in space, with equal leaps of faith, breaking suspension of disbelief etc, I will be very much tempted to find another pasture.

Bethsoft is keeping its sandbox client base, and improving on their storytelling at the same time. Fo;NV was the latest example (I know they outsourced it to Obsidian but they chose to move in the right direction). Skyrim was deeper in lore and narrative logic than the previous games.

Why is the the benchmark studio for storytelling unable or unwilling to address the concerns that they are moving in the opposite direction?

[TheOptimist]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

But w/e let the company sink, just like TORtanic.
The old fans tried to advice , but they won't listen anyway.

Yeah, the TORtanic, look at how badly that flopped.

http://www.pcworld.c...es_records.html

Oh, right.  But I'm sure if they'd listened to YOUR infinite wisdom, they'd have shattered those records even MORE.

[RiouHotaru]

Bad Sandwidge wrote...

The fact that BioWare apparently didn't see this reaction coming or even worse, knew it was coming but went ahead anyway is more worrying to me than whether or not the content was designed in the last three months. The first shows ignorance and the second sets dangerous trends. Every time they release a new game they take the ****** just a little bit more.

There's already been THREE twitter's from Casey.  They finished work on ME3 in January, and began work on From Ashes, which was done recently, in time for launch date.

I think they posted this information regardless of how folks would take it, which honestly is the best way to handle it.

[Farbautisonn]

Draconis6666 wrote... I guess you can wait 4+ years between decent releases from developers not owned by one of the two.

-you do realize thats what we did in the old days with bioware too?