13369 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

Doom Lich wrote...

Lime The Dragon wrote...

Staff: We'd like to announce new add-on content!

Community: We hate you so much. So we're still going to give you our money, because we want the content. Or maybe we won't because we hate your business practices. But in the end, it doesn't matter because nobody really cares what we have to say about you, or your practices, or your game that isn't 100% perfect by our ever so creative but unrealistic minds.

Video gaming is a form of entertainment, folks. It's not essential to ANYBODY's life. If it's too expensive for you, go read a book or watch a movie.

As Spark_ptz very well put it, the issue is as a whole a philisophical one, not a financial one. There are several fundemental issues with the mindset that would breed this kind of underhanded buisness.

Either they're lieing to our face, or performing a shameless cashgrab. Either way, it's dirty. And that's before we consider that this is day one DLC.

Again, this "All-or-nothing" attitude.  Why does it HAVE to be one or the other.  Maybe they're doing JUST as three people have said they're doing (Mike, Stanley, and Casey).

[redsox95MB]

Calians wrote...

>Protheans sound african.

>Reapers turned them into collector slaves.

Thus Reapers are the american's of space

HAHA GOOD ONE!!!!!11!!1!

[KBomb]

Zu Long wrote...

Are you seriously arguing that the entirety of Mass Effects plot revolves around the Protheans and their exploits? I know you're a hater and all, but are you sure you want to add this to your hate?

Strawman arguments are FUN! What's next?

 
Perhaps you lack reading comprehension and if so, I apologize. I'll try to break it down. Saying that protheans are an important part of the Mass effect story arc is not equal to saying that Mass Effect revolves around the protheans only. Okay? Okay!


You and the others can deny they are important all you wish. I don't care if you need a reason to justify this. That is your prerogative. Doesn't change the fact that in both series the prothean culture was discussed just as much as the reapers. I'd say that's pretty important to the story arc. You cannot deny that finding a living prothean would be a huge deal to anyone in the ME realm. To make one a DLC with limited dialogue and little importance is asinine.

Strawman arguments are FUN! What's next?

  Well, I suppose you'd know, wouldn't you?

Modifié par KBomb, 23 février 2012 - 04:22 .

[FlyingCow371]

I don't understand what the big deal is about this. They've been saying for a while that the fancy collectors edition would have an extra character and mission, and they're just releasing this to make the same character and mission available to people who get the regular edition. Mass effect will likely have enough story even without this dude. ME2 had several extra squad people, most of which had very short missions and felt like a bit of a let down. I wouldn't worry too much about missing this one.

Plus the $10 price point feels kinda high, but seems like the standard price for most random DLC things now. If you think it's too much, don't buy it, and if enough people do the same maybe EA will make their prices more reasonable.

[Doom Lich]

CaptainChip wrote...

I think I've gotten a sudden realization to where the problem comes from now.

Sure, day one DLC is a horrible thing to do, but it probably wouldn't be as bad if they just never added a Prothean character. The race should've stayed dead.

I agree with you entirely.

[Draconis6666]

JakePT wrote...

Every time BioWare responds to complaints about DLC they pull out the "It's optional" line. Makes me terrified for the day when the $60 box copy is the bare minimum and the rest of the game costs extra. "It's optional" they'll say. Well, part of amazing games like this is having options in the content, that's the whole point of interactive fiction! Saying something costs extra because it's optional is not reassuring! We know it's optional, and we don't want to be forced to pay extra just to get optional content that the games have always previously included.

If it's ready day 1 it should be part of the main content. Even if you have to download it because of certification or whatever, it should be free. What happened to the Cerberus Network model. The equivalent to this content was free!

I hope you complain when you buy a car that you have to pay extra for the options then.

secondly you are not paying for content that games have always included you are paying for content that before the age of DLC was either completely cut and never available at all or was released in expansion pack form for $35-40

[Xerxes52]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Am I a bad person for wanting this DLC solely for the alternate appearances for the squad? I would never buy the DLC based only on the outfits of course (not that I need to anyways considering I preordered the CE), but dammit, I love extra customization options for teammates.

Do you think the alternate appearances are provided to the player immediately after downloading or as a reward for the completion of the quest? I am thinking the latter, but this is an instance where I would be thrilled to be wrong. =p

Indeed, that piqued my interest as well (got my CE all paid off already). Here's hoping they have different models (i.e. Miranda's armor) instead of a palette swap.


Also no sunglasses.

[Niemack Saarinen]

redsox95MB wrote...

Calians wrote...

>Protheans sound african.

>Reapers turned them into collector slaves.

Thus Reapers are the american's of space

HAHA GOOD ONE!!!!!11!!1!

except the fact that africans enslaved other tribes and sold them to whites, and european countries as well.

[spark_ptz]

Zu Long wrote...

spark_ptz wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

BP20125810 wrote...
He'll probly say about as much a Zaeed.

Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
Clearly they wouldn't make a DLC character THAT important to the main story.

 
Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
People are just overreacting  

  
Wrong.

QFT

I think the problem most people are overlooking is the atmosphereic quality of the races and lore in Mass Effect. The protheans were thought to have been extinct and genetically rewritten. There's so much we could learn / hear from a prothean character that - mass effect fans who care about the mass effect universe's history - DLC would really cripple the experience of a lot of players who want certain things filled in. Not about the "STORY" or plot per say, but just about "prothean" culture and the experiences of a certain race. 

Here's some dialog from the prothean: 


Here's the script for anyone interested:
http://forum.blockla...?topic=176147.0

Precisely. The level of detail and depth of the background in the Mass Effect universe is an integral part of what makes the franchise so great, it shouldn't be ignored easily (well, it shouldn't be ignored at all, frankly)

But that feeling of immersion for the true fans is why they included it in the Collectors Edition...which was for the true fans. For the people who are picking up ME3 cold off the shelf it is just some extra content and extra flavor. If the lore/atmosphere/detail was so important to you, why on Gods green earth wouldn't you pick up the CE when you KNEW there was a bonus character included, to say nothing of the soundtrack, artbook etc?

Because you couldn't afford it, perhaps.

And this level of detail and depth was an integral part of teh core ME experience available to all. Why should that change now?

[TheOptimist]

JJDrakken wrote...

Skorvitch wrote...

Not a big fan of day 1 DLC. It shows the company is more about money than it is about its fan base. Simple solution is to not buy it. Take it a step further and not buy the game outright. All the screaming and the crying in the forums are just gonna go ignored, anyway. What's the point? Stop giving them money.

But wont happen, Video Games are legalized Drugs, the Companies know it.  People want their fix, they'll F you over because they can.


JJ

Funny, I've never had a problem not buying something I didn't want.  Stopped buying Final Fantasy games, never got into WoW, didn't like Bioshock when I rented it and didn't buy it, didn't like Dead Space, never touched Dead Space 2, the list goes on forever of games I didn't buy.  So 'legalized drugs' seems a bit on the melodramatic side...

[Draconis6666]

KBomb wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Are you seriously arguing that the entirety of Mass Effects plot revolves around the Protheans and their exploits? I know you're a hater and all, but are you sure you want to add this to your hate?

Strawman arguments are FUN! What's next?

 
Perhaps you lack reading comprehension and if so, I apologize. I'll try to break it down. Saying that protheans are an important part of the Mass effect story arc is not equal to saying that Mass Effect revolves around the protheans only. Okay? Okay!


You and the others can deny they are important all you wish. I don't care if you need a reason to justify this. That is your prerogative. Doesn't change the fact that in both series the prothean culture was discussed just as much as the reapers. I'd say that's pretty important to the story arc. You cannot deny that finding a living prothean wouldn't be a huge deal to anyone in the ME realm. To make one a DLC with limited dialogue and little importance is asinine.

Strawman arguments are FUN! What's next?

  Well, I suppose you'd know, wouldn't you?

But the argument is not that the Prothean was a wasted potential people are complaining that he has to be essential so they should get him for free because without him they are somehow not getting the whole game.

Him having tremendous potential and it being completely wasted is a completely different argument and the one that people should actualy be complaining about.

[Yuoaman]

FlyingCow371 wrote...

I don't understand what the big deal is about this. They've been saying for a while that the fancy collectors edition would have an extra character and mission, and they're just releasing this to make the same character and mission available to people who get the regular edition. Mass effect will likely have enough story even without this dude. ME2 had several extra squad people, most of which had very short missions and felt like a bit of a let down. I wouldn't worry too much about missing this one.

Plus the $10 price point feels kinda high, but seems like the standard price for most random DLC things now. If you think it's too much, don't buy it, and if enough people do the same maybe EA will make their prices more reasonable.

The big deal is because it involves a species that should be a big deal in the Mass Effect games, but is being included in the game itself.

[Shatterhand1701]

AxisEvolve wrote...

Shatterhand1701 wrote...
I listened to that dialogue at the link you provided, and while it is interesting, I'd hardly consider it crucial to the outcome of the story of Mass Effect 3, specifically.

Sorry.

All of that dialog was from about half of one mission (Sur'Kesh). So I'd say there's a lot more than that.

Ahh, alright.  Good to know.

[JJDrakken]

TheOptimist wrote...

JJDrakken wrote...

Skorvitch wrote...

Not a big fan of day 1 DLC. It shows the company is more about money than it is about its fan base. Simple solution is to not buy it. Take it a step further and not buy the game outright. All the screaming and the crying in the forums are just gonna go ignored, anyway. What's the point? Stop giving them money.

But wont happen, Video Games are legalized Drugs, the Companies know it.  People want their fix, they'll F you over because they can.


JJ

Funny, I've never had a problem not buying something I didn't want.  Stopped buying Final Fantasy games, never got into WoW, didn't like Bioshock when I rented it and didn't buy it, didn't like Dead Space, never touched Dead Space 2, the list goes on forever of games I didn't buy.  So 'legalized drugs' seems a bit on the melodramatic side...

But their is the other side of the coin, dark & scary, just like all addicts.  -winks-


JJ

[Farbautisonn]

TheOptimist wrote...
None of which matters to the plot.

-I havent seen the canon plot anywhere. Have you? Verifyable source? If not, how can you tell? 
 

Which is why the beacons were included in the plot.

-And why they are essential to the plot. Thank you for conceeding that.

But he isn't, because you can play the game without him and still win.  I guarantee it.

-First of all, I dont much care for your personall assurances. Youre not a dev. So forgive me if I do not take your words as gospel. Second, Doesnt matter if he as a person is non-essential as an NPC. This is a game where the only essential character is you. If the Devs wanted to they could write a story where you ate a pickled heering which caused a singularity that caused all reapers to implode. Wouldnt be very impressive storywriting, but it would be possible and if it was in the game you'd have to eat that ending and smile too.

The ship you travel around in is necessary to the plot.

-Nope. You could travel in a shuttle. On a magic carpet for that matter.

  The permanent squadmates are likely to not all be necessary to the plot, although that's always debatable.

-The only essential character in this game if we cut as deep as we can, is you. The protagonist. Would the game be fun, engageing and interesting if you were the only person there? Nope. But you are the only essential character in the game.

Cue the world falling apart as it turns out it's not truly necessary to have any particular squadmate with you, as witnessed by the fact that both Tali and Garrus can easily be dead. Fortunately Bioware was nice enough to include them even if they didn't have to.  They decided they didn't have room for the Prothean, so he's DLC instead.  What is so hard about this?

I dont care that he is a DLC toon. I find it slightly offensive that I am being blackmailed into getting an NPC that is;
a) From a race that has had such a huge impact on the story, lore and setting in wich I play.
 Being perverted to the extent that he and his culture has apparently been trivialized enough to be regulated from "Essential plot element" to "Insignificant plot element" over the timespan from ME1 to ME3.

[escapeartist80]

FlyingCow371 wrote...

I don't understand what the big deal is about this. They've been saying for a while that the fancy collectors edition would have an extra character and mission, and they're just releasing this to make the same character and mission available to people who get the regular edition. Mass effect will likely have enough story even without this dude. ME2 had several extra squad people, most of which had very short missions and felt like a bit of a let down. I wouldn't worry too much about missing this one.

Plus the $10 price point feels kinda high, but seems like the standard price for most random DLC things now. If you think it's too much, don't buy it, and if enough people do the same maybe EA will make their prices more reasonable.

The big deal is the blatant greed from BioWare that makes people not want to buy the finale of their favorite series.
Its like hearing the movie "the Hobbit" has child porn since they woulndt pay proper "little people" to play the sex scenes. <_<

[Calians]

My hourly pay doesnt even match 10 bucks..BOOO

[Prophetiks]

Michael Gamble wrote...

 Mass Effect 3 is a complete . . . game right out of the box.
 

Wrong, and I won't be buying it due to this move. 

The Cerberus Network for Mass Effect 2 was well-implemented and perfectly reasonable. This however, is not, and I won't encourage this practice by buying Mass Effect 3 until this is changed.

[TheOptimist]

spark_ptz wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

spark_ptz wrote...

Precisely. The level of detail and depth of the background in the Mass Effect universe is an integral part of what makes the franchise so great, it shouldn't be ignored easily (well, it shouldn't be ignored at all, frankly)

But that feeling of immersion for the true fans is why they included it in the Collectors Edition...which was for the true fans. For the people who are picking up ME3 cold off the shelf it is just some extra content and extra flavor. If the lore/atmosphere/detail was so important to you, why on Gods green earth wouldn't you pick up the CE when you KNEW there was a bonus character included, to say nothing of the soundtrack, artbook etc?

Because you couldn't afford it, perhaps.

And this level of detail and depth was an integral part of teh core ME experience available to all. Why should that change now?

How has it changed? LotSB was one of the best parts of ME2, and it was DLC.  It also happens to be integral to the story.  Still DLC, cause they couldn't get it done for the release of ME2.  The detail and depth is still there.  It hasn't gone anywhere.  They simply gave you a way to add yet more to the universe, and all half the people here can do is ***** unrelentingly about it.

[Descedent]

Farbautisonn wrote...

I dont care that he is a DLC toon. I find it slightly offensive that I am being blackmailed into getting an NPC that is;
a) From a race that has had such a huge impact on the story, lore and setting in wich I play.
 Being perverted to the extent that he and his culture has apparently been trivialized enough to be regulated from "Essential plot element" to "Insignificant plot element" over the timespan from ME1 to ME3.

i agree with this

the race should have been left DEAD, not resurrected for your $10

[Draconis6666]

Yuoaman wrote...

The big deal is because it involves a species that should be a big deal in the Mass Effect games, but is being included in the game itself.

Thats not what people are complaining about at all, they are instisting that because it SHOULD be a big deal that it should be included for free even though he ISNT actualy a big deal and isnt important to the game. 

What people should be complaining about is that he was a poor implementation for having a Prothean in the game and that it was a waste of the potential in having one still alive the way it was implemented. Thats not what people are doing however they are just crying that they have to pay for something because the feel it should be free because it SHOULD be important which is rediculous.

[Bluko]

For what it's worth this is exactly why I didn't pre-order the game. (Well and a few other minor issues I have with what I've seen or haven't seen from ME3.)

I had hoped I was going to be wrong and that the optional character in the CE was not going to be the Prothean. I was hoping it was going to be you know who as really that make a lot more sense as being "optional". Yet considering how integral Protheans are to this series it seems very cheeky that such a character should be considered optional.

Zaeed and Kasumi were acceptable (although wasn't super fond of this either) as they were not really integral to ME2 in anyway other then helping you with the last mission and getting you a few extra goodies. It's good cause people who did not get those DLCs aren't really missing anything then. But it's also bad as you have characters that exist for no real purpose nor add anything to the actual story. But hey it's not like we're making story driven games where the characters should actually be important right?

I'm sorry, but I cannot support this kind of behavior where you nickel and dime your fans as much as possible, even if many are willing to pay. Why not simply give your playerbase more bang for their buck and earn their respect for being a "kind" developer instead of a "greedy" one? The more DLC I see for a game, especially shortly after release, the less respect I have for the Publishers and Developers since they more often then not probably could have just included that material in the main game were they willing to work on the game longer. Also the fact that you're lying about this being something that couldn't be  included in the main game is a complete joke. You guys had this well planned in advanced when you announced the CE which was about a year ago now. You honestly expect me to believe that you could not have included the Prothean in the normal version within a year's time?  Next time use a better excuse like not enough disk space.

If you continue this business practice of making character optional DLC this will be the last Bioware game I buy. Look I don't mind so much additional weapons, armors, side missions, etc. being sold seperately. That's fine. Make all the DLC of stuff like that to suck the money out of the people who'll buy everything. But enough with the "optional" characters unless you're going to make full-fledged expansion packs where such a character might be warranted. The 1-2 hour missions are pretty lousy in comparison to most expansion packs I am familiar with.

I understand you are business hence your goal is generally to make as much profit as possible. You'll just have to pardon me for not liking it since it comes to me as an additional and seemingly unnecessary expense. Although what bothers me most is you are essentially cheating some people out of stuff they probably could have had. I see this as counter productive to making video games more accessible. And I will have no part in it.

Modifié par Bluko, 23 février 2012 - 04:27 .

[Draconis6666]

Farbautisonn wrote...

I dont care that he is a DLC toon. I find it slightly offensive that I am being blackmailed into getting an NPC that is;
a) From a race that has had such a huge impact on the story, lore and setting in wich I play.
 Being perverted to the extent that he and his culture has apparently been trivialized enough to be regulated from "Essential plot element" to "Insignificant plot element" over the timespan from ME1 to ME3.

How are you being blackmailed ? Did EA kidap your dog and threaten to shoot it if you dont buy the DLC?

[Farbautisonn]

Draconis6666 wrote...
Loosing additional back story lore is not detracting from the actual game

-To you. To me its essential. This isnt a pew pew. for me. Its a Storydriven Fps with RPG elements. You might be happy with plugging the "Boss mob" after fighting a horde of minions.  Im not.

[spark_ptz]

TheOptimist wrote...

spark_ptz wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

spark_ptz wrote...

Precisely. The level of detail and depth of the background in the Mass Effect universe is an integral part of what makes the franchise so great, it shouldn't be ignored easily (well, it shouldn't be ignored at all, frankly)

But that feeling of immersion for the true fans is why they included it in the Collectors Edition...which was for the true fans. For the people who are picking up ME3 cold off the shelf it is just some extra content and extra flavor. If the lore/atmosphere/detail was so important to you, why on Gods green earth wouldn't you pick up the CE when you KNEW there was a bonus character included, to say nothing of the soundtrack, artbook etc?

Because you couldn't afford it, perhaps.

And this level of detail and depth was an integral part of teh core ME experience available to all. Why should that change now?

How has it changed? LotSB was one of the best parts of ME2, and it was DLC.  It also happens to be integral to the story.  Still DLC, cause they couldn't get it done for the release of ME2.  The detail and depth is still there.  It hasn't gone anywhere.  They simply gave you a way to add yet more to the universe, and all half the people here can do is ***** unrelentingly about it.

Because LotSB was never intended to be a part of the core ME2 experience. It was never intended to be a part of the completed ME2 game. It's more like an old-school expansion pack.