13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Shatterhand1701]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

I love how we turned this ginormous rant session from 

"OH NOES!  I have to spend extra money for content!!!  PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!"

to

"OH NOES!  The Protheans aren't getting the respect and attention they deserve!  PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!"  

I'd LOVE to scan the forums to see if, early in the development of ME3, anyone argued for having a Prothean in the game, perhaps as even...oh, I don't know...downloadable add-on content, let's say!

Oh... so you thought it was only possible to have two opinions on the matter. Im sorry. I didnt mean to strain your synapses.

Well, you're certainly trying to point out that your opinion is the one that matters most.  So, I'm not really sure you're in a position to comment snarkily about my two-pack of 'em.  Never mind that those aren't the only two I see, just the ones I happened to mention in that specific post.  But, no no, you go right on ahead.

[fropas]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Thats your opinion of whats important though, which is irrelevant and so is mine. Bioware is entitled to their own opinion of what is and is not needed for its game and what is optional. Not you, not me. They took the time to make and create the game and it is their decision, you are entitled to nothing other than what they decide to offer you. If you dont want it fine dont pay for it but dont **** about it because they dont meet your expectations.

I am however very much entitled to voicing my opinion and pointing out what I believe is inconsistencies. Especially if I have been a loyal customer for more than a decade.

So you've been a loyal fan for over a decade but you're complaining about 10$ DLC? 

[nitefyre410]

Kreidian wrote...

*snip*

well that is nice and well thought out and you're correct  most of us don't know jack about game development...

What I do know  though with out a shadow of a doubt is when someone is trying to bull**** me  with a PR spun story...

That I do know ... 

and guess what my good friend..

the bull**** is strong with this one...

and its not my own I'm smelling.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 23 février 2012 - 04:38 .

[spark_ptz]

Kreidian wrote...

Let me just say that I would like to point out how  ...   - let's just use the word "inaccurate" for now -  ... some people are being about this. I would express in great detail how I felt but that would likely result in heavy editing on the part of the moderators and probably some probationary action against me over language use.

So I will say this; there are some blatant, horendous fallacies that people are peddling across in their arguments as absolute fact. These are just plain wrong and people need to realize this so they can actually consider the situation rationally; you know, like adults are expected to do.

Rather then go into great detail about things which have already been explained but people refuse to accept rationally, let me just say this. Most of you are not game developers. Therefore YOU DO NOT have ANY clue what is actually involved in game developement. Trying to point to some months old audio files and a line for a DLC in the CE announcement as proof of some great conspiracy and malicious intent to exploit their customer is just plain wrong. All it shows is you have absolutely no understanding how things actually work.

You want real exploitation? Check out some of the "free to play" online games out there that really do nickle and dime their customers to death and the only way to play is to pay more then the next guy.

All that Bioware is guilty of is planning ahead. Planning ahead so there would be bonus content available to their customers from day one. So you won't have to wait until months after ME3 is released for some DLC. Because guess what? They listen to their customers, they listen when people were disappointed there was so little DLC for the original Mass Effect. And there's nothing wrong with them charging for it because it is, no matter how much you whine about it, still optional content. You don't need it, and you don't have to pay for it, you can enjoy the game just fine without it.

None of this makes Bioware or EA evil. On the contrary, it means they're competent, it means they're actually working hard to give YOU, their customers, something you will want in addition to the game itself. And they're making it available as early as they can. Let's face it, if they had delayed this DLC one month none of your arguments would have been valid.

But you'd still complain about it if they had done that. Why? Frankly it's because you have a false sense of entitlement. You honestly believe that for some reason you deserve to have this bonus content, for free, without doing anything whatsoever to earn it. Simple fact is, you're being selfish, nothing more, nothing less.

Those of us who aren't acting like children about this actually appreciate all the hard work that Bioware is doing for Mass Effect. And indeed want to encourage them to keep working on it and to keep making more DLCs for the game for as long as they can!

And yes I will be buying the DLC, and I will be enjoying the game, which I preordered. And your ridiculous "facts" won't convince me to cancel a damn thing. But by all means, cancel your own preorders. I'll make sure to tell all my friends that people were stupid enough to cancel their pre-orders so now they too might have a shot of securing their collector's edition.

Just do us all a favor and learn the truth, or shut up about it.

I agree with this, basically.

[Farbautisonn]

Draconis6666 wrote...
Yes yes you are and I will not for one second argue that you dont have that right, but at the same time you should not expect to actualy get something simply because you do so.

-If I dont ask I dont get. Its a rather popular thing. I usually get a discount whenever I haggle. Only the sheep and the tourists pay more for less.

[Augster75]

Zu Long wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Loosing additional back story lore is not detracting from the actual game

-To you. To me its essential. This isnt a pew pew. for me. Its a Storydriven Fps with RPG elements. You might be happy with plugging the "Boss mob" after fighting a horde of minions.  Im not.

If it's so essential, why didn't you buy the CE which told you from the outset it would include a bonus character and mission?

It's unbelievable how some people are still trying too hard to justify what Bioware did... It's a DLC about a live Prothean for God's sake and they're selling it as a seperate 10 dollar DLC on day 1 instead of adding it to the core game OR releasing it as an online pass DLC like Zaeed: Price Of Revenge. Yet you're just sitting there and trying to justify what they did like there's nothing wrong about it.

[spark_ptz]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

*snip*

well that is nice and well thought out and you correct  most of us don't know jack about game development...

What I do know  though with out a shadow of a doubt is when someone is trying to bull**** me  with a PR spun story...

That I do know ... 

and guess what my good friend..

the bull**** is strong with this one...

and its not my own I'm smelling.

If you don't know anything about game development, on what basis can you evaluate whether their claims are reasonable or not?

[ArkkAngel007]

GunMoth wrote...

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

BP20125810 wrote...
He'll probly say about as much a Zaeed.

Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
Clearly they wouldn't make a DLC character THAT important to the main story.

 
Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
People are just overreacting  

  
Wrong.

QFT

I think the problem most people are overlooking is the atmosphereic quality of the races and lore in Mass Effect. The protheans were thought to have been extinct and genetically rewritten. There's so much we could learn / hear from a prothean character that - mass effect fans who care about the mass effect universe's history - DLC would really cripple the experience of a lot of players who want certain things filled in. Not about the "STORY" or plot per say, but just about "prothean" culture and the experiences of a certain race. 

Here's some dialog from the prothean: 


Here's the script for anyone interested:
http://forum.blockla...?topic=176147.0

I listened to that dialogue at the link you provided, and while it is interesting, I'd hardly consider it crucial to the outcome of the story of Mass Effect 3, specifically.

Sorry.

Read the script. That video was only 2 minutes of the voice actor and some lines. 

Sorry.

That.
You.
Take.

Things.
For.

Face.
Value.

Dramatic. 

Spacing. 
To seem. Passive aggressive. 

And what is in the script, the relevent one, has no dialogue from Javik essential to Mass Effect 3 in any form.  It's all expanded universe type information.

[FlyingCow371]

Yuoaman wrote...

FlyingCow371 wrote...

I don't understand what the big deal is about this. They've been saying for a while that the fancy collectors edition would have an extra character and mission, and they're just releasing this to make the same character and mission available to people who get the regular edition. Mass effect will likely have enough story even without this dude. ME2 had several extra squad people, most of which had very short missions and felt like a bit of a let down. I wouldn't worry too much about missing this one.

Plus the $10 price point feels kinda high, but seems like the standard price for most random DLC things now. If you think it's too much, don't buy it, and if enough people do the same maybe EA will make their prices more reasonable.

The big deal is because it involves a species that should be a big deal in the Mass Effect games, but is being included in the game itself.

When deciding to order the CE or regular edition, you needed to figure out if that extra stuff (sound track, art, character, mission, etc) was worth the additional price to you. If it's not worth it, you should be ready to not have those things in your game/game box. Are people also going to be mad if they release the soundtrack separately from the CE? Or if they release whatever avatar craziness they've included? (I'm not entirely sure what's in there, but y'all should get the idea. They made this mission/character for the CE. If they left it at that, it'd be impossible for people who got the regular edition to experience the character. But they decided to give people a chance to see the bonus mission if they're interested. If the price is the issue, wait until it's on sale and it'd be more reason to start up another playthrough next year.)

Mass effect is a big game, and each Shepherd's story can be a bit different from the others. In mine, the protheans were defeated a long time ago, pretty thoroughly. There's nothing left to find. My Shepherd(s) won't miss a return trip to eden prime. He's got more important things to deal with.

[Calians]

spark_ptz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

*snip*

well that is nice and well thought out and you correct  most of us don't know jack about game development...

What I do know  though with out a shadow of a doubt is when someone is trying to bull**** me  with a PR spun story...

That I do know ... 

and guess what my good friend..

the bull**** is strong with this one...

and its not my own I'm smelling.

If you don't know anything about game development, on what basis can you evaluate whether their claims are reasonable or not?

Companies get Greedy nuff said.

[Farbautisonn]

fropas wrote...

So you've been a loyal fan for over a decade but you're complaining about 10$ DLC? 

-You didnt read much of my posts did you? Ill pay 40$ more for the game or a good dlc if the storyline is there. If the lore is consistant. If I dont get my suspension of disbelief broken. Its not the money for me. For me its the story.

[KBomb]

Draconis6666 wrote...

But the argument is not that the Prothean was a wasted potential people are complaining that he has to be essential so they should get him for free because without him they are somehow not getting the whole game.

Him having tremendous potential and it being completely wasted is a completely different argument and the one that people should actualy be complaining about.

 
I agree with the bolded part. Completely. Saying that, I must also say that this whole piece of business leaves a bad taste in my mouth. People have complained about this type of business practice for quite some time now. Bioware should have known people wouldn't be happy with this. Especially since this character has been wearing a cape of lies since day one when they first denied him.


I can also understand why people would not believe this was always planned as a day one. Especially since he was in the first script as an in-game character. Which means that at one time he wasn't planned for the purpose he has now. Whatever true reason they chose to cut him out of the game and sell him as a DLC is only known to them, but they're naive if they are to believe no one is going to suspect shady dealing such as expecting that people would want him so much so that they would pay extra for him, and therefore made him into a DLC instead of what he was first conceived to be.

[Shatterhand1701]

GunMoth wrote...


Read the script. That video was only 2 minutes of the voice actor and some lines. 

Sorry.

That.
You.
Take.

Things.
For.

Face.
Value.

Dramatic. 

Spacing. 
To seem. Passive aggressive. 

EDIT: Also read my post where I talk about the atmosphere and history of the game. 

You almost owed me a new keyboard for this.  Hi-LARIOUS!  And, what you did there, with the spacing and all that...ZING!  Two thumbs up!  Don't stop believin', and all that.

<_<

[Skorvitch]

JJDrakken wrote...

Skorvitch wrote...

Not a big fan of day 1 DLC. It shows the company is more about money than it is about its fan base. Simple solution is to not buy it. Take it a step further and not buy the game outright. All the screaming and the crying in the forums are just gonna go ignored, anyway. What's the point? Stop giving them money.

But wont happen, Video Games are legalized Drugs, the Companies know it.  People want their fix, they'll F you over because they can.


JJ

Heh, always plenty of cheaper (and sometimes higher quality) alternatives.

[fropas]

Blacktric wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Loosing additional back story lore is not detracting from the actual game

-To you. To me its essential. This isnt a pew pew. for me. Its a Storydriven Fps with RPG elements. You might be happy with plugging the "Boss mob" after fighting a horde of minions.  Im not.

If it's so essential, why didn't you buy the CE which told you from the outset it would include a bonus character and mission?

It's unbelievable how some people are still trying too hard to justify what Bioware did... It's a DLC about a live Prothean for God's sake and they're selling it as a seperate 10 dollar DLC on day 1 instead of adding it to the core game OR releasing it as an online pass DLC like Zaeed: Price Of Revenge. Yet you're just sitting there and trying to justify what they did like there's nothing wrong about it.

Yeah! how dare Bioware try to make money off of content they promised to people who bought the CE only! Raar nerd rage!

[Farbautisonn]

Zu Long wrote...

If it's so essential, why didn't you buy the CE which told you from the outset it would include a bonus character and mission?

-I am getting the CE digital download. Just didnt know it was a prothean nor did i know that he was manhanled so as a toon. Thats my gripe. I would have thought that rather obvious by now.

[Cainne Chapel]

Can I start a counter argument that as a multiple N7 edition buyer (PS3/360/PC) that I am OUTRAGED that the lowly SE fans are getting access to MY special and *entitled* bonus character?

[TheOptimist]

Farbautisonn wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
None of which matters to the plot.

-I havent seen the canon plot anywhere. Have you? Verifyable source? If not, how can you tell? 

 
Why would it be?

-And why they are essential to the plot. Thank you for conceeding that.

What, that Protheans as a race are essential to the plot? Sure, don't mention it.

-First of all, I dont much care for your personall assurances. Youre not a dev. So forgive me if I do not take your words as gospel.

LMAO.  OK, you've officially gone off the deep end, dude.  Tell you what, I'll do a run through without recruiting the Prothean character, and if I can't win the game without recruiting him, I'll come back and apologize.
 

Second, Doesnt matter if he as a person is non-essential as an NPC. This is a game where the only essential character is you. If the Devs wanted to they could write a story where you ate a pickled heering which caused a singularity that caused all reapers to implode. Wouldnt be very impressive storywriting, but it would be possible and if it was in the game you'd have to eat that ending and smile too.

Sure, they could do that.  But I'm betting based on Bioware's past track record the story's a little better.  But hey, better not to buy any game ever again, the story might just be 'oh noes, you win!' It could totally happen.

-Nope. You could travel in a shuttle. On a magic carpet for that matter.

You still need a method of transport. But sure, lets take this to absolute absurdity.

-The only essential character in this game if we cut as deep as we can, is you. The protagonist. Would the game be fun, engageing and interesting if you were the only person there? Nope. But you are the only essential character in the game.

And since Bioware is in the habit of making fun and interesting games in my experience, I'm gonna go with trusting them to do it again.  I could always be wrong.  But I've bet $80 I'm not.

I dont care that he is a DLC toon. I find it slightly offensive that I am being blackmailed into getting an NPC that is;
a) From a race that has had such a huge impact on the story, lore and setting in wich I play.
 Being perverted to the extent that he and his culture has apparently been trivialized enough to be regulated from "Essential plot element" to "Insignificant plot element" over the timespan from ME1 to ME3.

And here we come to the problem, you've somehow transposed 'I want' with 'I'm entitled to this because I've played the last 2 games.'  You are not entitled to it.  You can pay $10 to find out what impact the Prothean has on the story, I'm sure it will be interesting.  You can play the game without it, and I'd bet many people will do just fine.  Or you can not play the game at all.  Good luck with that.  But you're not being blackmailed.  You've been offered extra content that was never going to be part of the initial game.  Buy it or don't.

[GunMoth]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

BP20125810 wrote...
He'll probly say about as much a Zaeed.

Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
Clearly they wouldn't make a DLC character THAT important to the main story.

 
Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
People are just overreacting  

  
Wrong.

QFT

I think the problem most people are overlooking is the atmosphereic quality of the races and lore in Mass Effect. The protheans were thought to have been extinct and genetically rewritten. There's so much we could learn / hear from a prothean character that - mass effect fans who care about the mass effect universe's history - DLC would really cripple the experience of a lot of players who want certain things filled in. Not about the "STORY" or plot per say, but just about "prothean" culture and the experiences of a certain race. 

Here's some dialog from the prothean: 


Here's the script for anyone interested:
http://forum.blockla...?topic=176147.0

I listened to that dialogue at the link you provided, and while it is interesting, I'd hardly consider it crucial to the outcome of the story of Mass Effect 3, specifically.

Sorry.

Read the script. That video was only 2 minutes of the voice actor and some lines. 

Sorry.

That.
You.
Take.

Things.
For.

Face.
Value.

Dramatic. 

Spacing. 
To seem. Passive aggressive. 

And what is in the script, the relevent one, has no dialogue from Javik essential to Mass Effect 3 in any form.  It's all expanded universe type information.

Please re-read my post above. (The one about atmosphere)

[DifferentD17]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...


They haven't said anything about an extra character, they denied it at first and there is nothing in any preorder discription that says anything about an extra character.

No, your wrong they did say there was an extra secret character in the CE.
www.youtube.com/watch at 1min 45sec mark and this video was posted way back in Nov.

I'm sorry is that even on the same website where I purchase the product? I shouldn't have to go on alot of websites and watch a video so I can see what's in the collectors edition that should be in the discription. I shouldn't have to frequent the forums to know what the hell is in the product I'm buying.

[Zu Long]

spark_ptz wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

spark_ptz wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

BP20125810 wrote...
He'll probly say about as much a Zaeed.

Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
Clearly they wouldn't make a DLC character THAT important to the main story.

 
Wrong.

BP20125810 wrote...
People are just overreacting  

  
Wrong.

QFT

I think the problem most people are overlooking is the atmosphereic quality of the races and lore in Mass Effect. The protheans were thought to have been extinct and genetically rewritten. There's so much we could learn / hear from a prothean character that - mass effect fans who care about the mass effect universe's history - DLC would really cripple the experience of a lot of players who want certain things filled in. Not about the "STORY" or plot per say, but just about "prothean" culture and the experiences of a certain race. 

Here's some dialog from the prothean: 


Here's the script for anyone interested:
http://forum.blockla...?topic=176147.0

Precisely. The level of detail and depth of the background in the Mass Effect universe is an integral part of what makes the franchise so great, it shouldn't be ignored easily (well, it shouldn't be ignored at all, frankly)

But that feeling of immersion for the true fans is why they included it in the Collectors Edition...which was for the true fans. For the people who are picking up ME3 cold off the shelf it is just some extra content and extra flavor. If the lore/atmosphere/detail was so important to you, why on Gods green earth wouldn't you pick up the CE when you KNEW there was a bonus character included, to say nothing of the soundtrack, artbook etc?

Because you couldn't afford it, perhaps.

And this level of detail and depth was an integral part of teh core ME experience available to all. Why should that change now?

Really? $60 bucks is just fine, but add 20 bucks and oh man, now it's out of your price range? Come on. Buy the medium soda for two weeks instead of large. Boom. 20 bucks. Done and done.

The level of depth and detail hasn't changed I'm sure for what is already in the game. The codex is still there, no doubt chock full of new entries for us to feast on. The character interaction and gameplay are deeper than ever. The only thing they did was say "hey, you know what would be fun to do for the true fans? A prothean character! I bet they'd love that." So they did it, and now they've been rewarded by bunch of people crying "but I want it for FREE!"

[Augster75]

fropas wrote...

Blacktric wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Loosing additional back story lore is not detracting from the actual game

-To you. To me its essential. This isnt a pew pew. for me. Its a Storydriven Fps with RPG elements. You might be happy with plugging the "Boss mob" after fighting a horde of minions.  Im not.

If it's so essential, why didn't you buy the CE which told you from the outset it would include a bonus character and mission?

It's unbelievable how some people are still trying too hard to justify what Bioware did... It's a DLC about a live Prothean for God's sake and they're selling it as a seperate 10 dollar DLC on day 1 instead of adding it to the core game OR releasing it as an online pass DLC like Zaeed: Price Of Revenge. Yet you're just sitting there and trying to justify what they did like there's nothing wrong about it.

Yeah! how dare Bioware try to make money off of content they promised to people who bought the CE only! Raar nerd rage!

Oh I love how some of you people manipulate stuff to make yourselves look right. You're either not getting how important a Prothean squadmate will be to the story, or you're just here to write stuff to ****** people off without having a clue...

[nitefyre410]

spark_ptz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

*snip*

well that is nice and well thought out and you correct  most of us don't know jack about game development...

What I do know  though with out a shadow of a doubt is when someone is trying to bull**** me  with a PR spun story...

That I do know ... 

and guess what my good friend..

the bull**** is strong with this one...

and its not my own I'm smelling.

If you don't know anything about game development, on what basis can you evaluate whether their claims are reasonable or not?

   

The same way  you  know when someone  walks up to you on the  street and offers you brand new Ipod fresh out box from under their coat.

Or when  Girlfriend or Boyfriend is lying to you about that night when they were gone all night. 

Or when  a rather powerful man once said...

"I did not have sexual relations with  that women."

Modifié par nitefyre410, 23 février 2012 - 04:45 .

[Cap Rev]

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
None of which matters to the plot.

-I havent seen the canon plot anywhere. Have you? Verifyable source? If not, how can you tell? 
 

Which is why the beacons were included in the plot.

-And why they are essential to the plot. Thank you for conceeding that.

But he isn't, because you can play the game without him and still win.  I guarantee it.

-First of all, I dont much care for your personall assurances. Youre not a dev. So forgive me if I do not take your words as gospel. Second, Doesnt matter if he as a person is non-essential as an NPC. This is a game where the only essential character is you. If the Devs wanted to they could write a story where you ate a pickled heering which caused a singularity that caused all reapers to implode. Wouldnt be very impressive storywriting, but it would be possible and if it was in the game you'd have to eat that ending and smile too.

The ship you travel around in is necessary to the plot.

-Nope. You could travel in a shuttle. On a magic carpet for that matter.

  The permanent squadmates are likely to not all be necessary to the plot, although that's always debatable.

-The only essential character in this game if we cut as deep as we can, is you. The protagonist. Would the game be fun, engageing and interesting if you were the only person there? Nope. But you are the only essential character in the game.

Cue the world falling apart as it turns out it's not truly necessary to have any particular squadmate with you, as witnessed by the fact that both Tali and Garrus can easily be dead. Fortunately Bioware was nice enough to include them even if they didn't have to.  They decided they didn't have room for the Prothean, so he's DLC instead.  What is so hard about this?

I dont care that he is a DLC toon. I find it slightly offensive that I am being blackmailed into getting an NPC that is;
a) From a race that has had such a huge impact on the story, lore and setting in wich I play.
 Being perverted to the extent that he and his culture has apparently been trivialized enough to be regulated from "Essential plot element" to "Insignificant plot element" over the timespan from ME1 to ME3.

I love how we turned this ginormous rant session from 

"OH NOES!  I have to spend extra money for content!!!  PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!"

to

"OH NOES!  The Protheans aren't getting the respect and attention they deserve!  PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!"  

I'd LOVE to scan the forums to see if, early in the development of ME3, anyone argued for having a Prothean in the game, perhaps as even...oh, I don't know...downloadable add-on content, let's say!

I am getting the CE for the Robot Dog, I could care less about the Prothean

[Shifty Assassin]

KBomb wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

But the argument is not that the Prothean was a wasted potential people are complaining that he has to be essential so they should get him for free because without him they are somehow not getting the whole game.

Him having tremendous potential and it being completely wasted is a completely different argument and the one that people should actualy be complaining about.

 
I agree with the bolded part. Completely. Saying that, I must also say that this whole piece of business leaves a bad taste in my mouth. People have complained about this type of business practice for quite some time now. Bioware should have known people wouldn't be happy with this. Especially since this character has been wearing a cape of lies since day one when they first denied him.


I can also understand why people would not believe this was always planned as a day one. Especially since he was in the first script as an in-game character. Which means that at one time he wasn't planned for the purpose he has now. Whatever true reason they chose to cut him out of the game and sell him as a DLC is only known to them, but they're naive if they are to believe no one is going to suspect shady dealing such as expecting that people would want him so much so that they would pay extra for him, and therefore made him into a DLC instead of what he was first conceived to be.

This but regardless of what bioware has done it annoys me that im still going to buy the game.