13369 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOptimist]

Calians wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Calians wrote...

I wonder how many times this game will be pirated..

Just as many times as it would have been 2 days ago, would be my guess. 

Rather I think it's increasing.

I rather think it's not.  Pirates find excuses to be pirates, because they're convinced that they're entitled to the fruits of others labor for free.

[Farbautisonn]

Zu Long wrote...
What good would Vigil have been if it wasn't for Shepard? And how does that have anything to do the Prothean character providing weapons and tactical advice, as you originally posited in your post?

Vigil could have given that info to any number of persons that followed the prothean trail. You just happened to be there and your name happened to be shepard.

No protheans. No vigil. No shepard.
No shepard, still a vigil.
Geddit? 

Vigil: Prothean.
Sidekick: Prothean.
Prime plotmovers: Prothean.

[Zu Long]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Zu Long wrote...


I find it more unbelievable that people feel entitled to free stuff Bioware has been advertising since the CE was announced as extra content. I'm a huge fan, and I thought "I want everything they have to offer on this." If you are a huge fan, and atmosphere is really important to you, how did you NOT think that? How can you POSSIBLY be so conceted as to be upset with someone putting extra work into making additional content for you as a fan and taking it as an insult or a slight that Bioware would be so selfish as to continue working on content even after the game was finished, then somehow expect you to pay for it? It frankly boggles my mind.

Show me the product page where it says the CE version comes with an extra character.

http://www.masseffec...out/collectors/

Technically it even says "Additional downloadable mission and characters."  Wonder if we get more than one?

But yeah, that line has been included on the CE page since it was announced.

[mauro2222]

Farbautisonn wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...


But that means you think you're entitled to something. *trollface*

Circles, this conversation is going in circles.

-If I pay for it, year. Thats generally how the world works in my neck of the woods? How does things work where you live? You give your money away at the mall and then hope you get enough milk? 

It was sarcasm dude. I fully agree with you

[geekofband007]

I find this very dissaponting and pathetic.  I can't see a single reason why I should have to pay extra for this.  This is Bad Business Bioware.  Bad Business.  If this is not changed to free for Standard Edition then you just lost yourself a customer.  I see this character as a very importent character and am dissapointed and discusted you would make me pay 70 dollars for basically the full game.  I am a huge fan of the Mass Effect series and love the story but I will not be buying Mass Effect 3 because this is bad business.

[DifferentD17]

Draconis6666 wrote...


 So again your excuse is "I want someone to tell me everything and explain everything to me in one place because im too lazy to do research on what i spend my money on which is one of my duties as a consumer" and that is their fault?

I do research I've watched plenty of videos about the ME3 CE edition I didn't see that ONE video out of what? 20? It was in the discription of the CE edition months back and was taken out, what would someone think when they take something out of the discription?

[Farbautisonn]

mauro2222 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...


But that means you think you're entitled to something. *trollface*

Circles, this conversation is going in circles.

-If I pay for it, year. Thats generally how the world works in my neck of the woods? How does things work where you live? You give your money away at the mall and then hope you get enough milk? 

It was sarcasm dude. I fully agree with you

Sorry. Wee hours of the morning here

[fropas]

Farbautisonn wrote...

fropas wrote...
So wait for the review to come out before you buy the game or DLC. That's what I usually do, but value is always subjective you'll never know if it was worth it until you try the product. If you buy the game and feel like you didn't get your (60$) story fix, because the prothy was left out, then you can make a thread about it and we can discuss that complaint in detail.

Right now it does sound like you think everyone should get content that was never promised to them based on an assumption that Bioware cares more about your loyalty than your wallet; they don't, so get over it.

-Sound advice. Sound logic. I follow.

However I do not undestand how it "sounds like" I ask for content never promised. The previous two games rely heavily on prothean lore for moving the plot along, and disregarding it completely in the third installment would be... well... not logical.

Bioware had better care about my loyalty... because my loyalty decides where I dump my money. If I feel I am listened to and I am treated properly, I am insanely loyal, and I dont mind shopping often, and more than I need. If I am not loyal, I have zero reason to spend a dime with Bio.

Sorry I'm just a little less "sentimental" about the gaming companies I support. If they continue to produce games I like I'll support them, if not I have no reason to continue buying their games. . .

Hearing you talk reminds me of a gaming company I was a big fan of when I was a kid called "RARE" I so want to cry when I think about the franchises they killed. but I dropped them like a bad habit. I'll do the same to Bioware if they stop making games I like. 

[Calians]

TheOptimist wrote...

Calians wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Calians wrote...

I wonder how many times this game will be pirated..

Just as many times as it would have been 2 days ago, would be my guess. 

Rather I think it's increasing.

I rather think it's not.  Pirates find excuses to be pirates, because they're convinced that they're entitled to the fruits of others labor for free.

If BW/EA find out that pirated ME3 is off the charts feel free to come back and say I'm right :innocent:

[Goneaviking]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Goneaviking wrote....

They're releasing extra content as extra content and you think you shouldn't have to pay for it. Your position is no more complicated or worthy than that.

-Do us a favor and quote me back where I wrote that, theres a nice chappie. I mean you wouldnt pull an assumption like that out of your backside now would you? I dont mind paying for it. I just want it to reflects its importance. We arent getting another Krogan. We are getting a prothean.

"It's unbelievable how some people are still trying too hard to justify
what Bioware did... It's a DLC about a live Prothean for God's sake and
they're selling it as a seperate 10 dollar DLC on day 1 instead of
adding it to the core game OR releasing it as an online pass DLC like
Zaeed: Price Of Revenge. Yet you're just sitting there and trying to
justify what they did like there's nothing wrong about it."


If the character wasn't put together as part of the main story then it's extra content. The prothean team member was advertised as exclusive content for the Collectors Edition months ago, and is therefore extra content by definition. I made the conscious decision to pay for it as extra content, and so did many other people who preordered the CE.

Its appearance in ME3 will add to the game lore, no one says it won't, but it's obviously not important to the core narrative or it'd be part of the core game.

So yeah, princess, I'll sit here and tell you there's nothing wrong about it.

[Draconis6666]

fropas wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...


-Wat`? Analogy not computing.

Yeah seriously? Milk? LOL? this is so delightfully random it made me laugh

He used milk i just expanded on it. The point is that you get what you pay for and you pay for what you want, you do not demand that the person you are buying the product from change the product or alter it because you think that you deserve more for what you paid. You can chose to not buy the product if it doesnt suit your tastes but you do not have the right to tell them how to market, package or sell their product. 

You can express your opinion that they are not providing you with enough but that does not entitle them to provide you with more or to give you anythign extra. They are only entitled to give you what they feel is appropriate and you may decide if you want to buy it or not thats all there is to it. 

The analogy was basically ment to say if you spend $60 on Mass Effect 3 Standard Edition you are paying $60 for what Bioware/EA decides the Mass Effect 3 Standard Edition is. The fact that you paid $60 does not entitle you to demand that things be included in that package and expect that simply because you demand it they must provide it as many people seem to think (not saying you specificaly think that but there are many people in this thread who appear to be of that opinion). If you think the value of the product is not worth your $60 you dont spend your $60 thats how the process works. If they chose to decide that they have indeed overcharged you and provide you with some sort of compensation that is within their right to do so but is not something they are required to do or even something that they should do as the entire concept of what the product is worth is speculative to your concept of its value which is not the same as everyone elses.

[DarthSquishie]

I find it funny how some people don't realize how a business works. I'm going to shock people with this I know...a business is out to make money! O.O
IF YOU DON"T LIKE THE IDEA DON'T BUY IT!! You will get a full game regardless of EXTRA content or not. All of the arguments about "if we don't take our stance now companies will see that as an opportunity to release a partial game for full price and then charge for the rest of the game" are just sad. Any company would never be so stupid as to do that, gamers would instantly catch it and shut it down by not buying it. How many examples are there of this so far in reality, besides Rocksteady and Batman? Games that are buggy and need patches don't count, that's an age old PC problem.
Also as for story... Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival were most likely written into the story in a basic form with the details filled in later and they were major story points people could have missed out on. Do people honestly think they should have received that for free because they had it as part of the story even before ME2 came out? It does not matter the date of release: IF IT WAS PLANNED AS EXTRA it is the developers right, not the players, to choose how to release it. Bioware has not failed me yet in any of it's DLC or games and I will continue to trust them and support them with every release I can until I lose that trust (which is unlikely )

[Zu Long]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
What good would Vigil have been if it wasn't for Shepard? And how does that have anything to do the Prothean character providing weapons and tactical advice, as you originally posited in your post?

Vigil could have given that info to any number of persons that followed the prothean trail. You just happened to be there and your name happened to be shepard.

No protheans. No vigil. No shepard.
No shepard, still a vigil.
Geddit? 

Vigil: Prothean.
Sidekick: Prothean.
Prime plotmovers: Prothean.

Any number of people? Pretty sure there were only two. Me and Saren...and I'm pretty sure Saren was on the other team. No Shepard, no saved galaxy in ME1, Vigil = useless.

As I said- If I needed tactical advice on how to give someone else a shot to beat the Reapers, I'd ask the prothean. For beating them right now, I have doubts on how much more advice he'll have than "kill them."

[Shatterhand1701]

Calians wrote...

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I'm very proud of the internet. BW's greed is the biggest story on N4G at the moment. And with TB backing up a boycott, it's looking good.

For....who, exactly?  For the people willing to boycott a game for having to pay for optional content?

Alrighty, then.  You're all winners, I guess.

When your a pirate you always win

Maybe.  I'd just rather support the people who put hours and hours of work into the making of the game and show my appreciation by spending money on it.  I know that sounds cliched, but it just means that much to me, I guess.  They gave me an amazing story with captivating characters.  Just seems fair.  *shrugs*

Modifié par Shatterhand1701, 23 février 2012 - 05:21 .

[Draconis6666]

geekofband007 wrote...

I find this very dissaponting and pathetic.  I can't see a single reason why I should have to pay extra for this.  This is Bad Business Bioware.  Bad Business.  If this is not changed to free for Standard Edition then you just lost yourself a customer.  I see this character as a very importent character and am dissapointed and discusted you would make me pay 70 dollars for basically the full game.  I am a huge fan of the Mass Effect series and love the story but I will not be buying Mass Effect 3 because this is bad business.

Your opinon of what is the full game is not valid in this instance for anyone but yourself. Bioware decides what is "The full Game" and that is what is given to you in the package. You deciding that you need additional content is your decision not theirs and not something that entitles them to give it to you for free simply because you believe it is important to your gaming experience.

[jkflipflopDAO]

The bottom line here is that they've pissed off a large number of their audience. If Vega was the extra day 1 guy, no one would care. But its a FREAKING PROTHEAN! A)Even if in some way the fact that he is a Prothean isn't that important (as you sad little apologists keep spewing) and B)Thats a MAJOR spoiler that would have made a great surprise later in the game. Now we all know there's still living Protheans.

Modifié par jkflipflopDAO, 23 février 2012 - 05:18 .

[Muklol]

DarthSquishie wrote...

I find it funny how some people don't realize how a business works. I'm going to shock people with this I know...a business is out to make money! O.O

Yes and do you know who has the money ? The customers, so pissing them off too many times is bad for buisness

[gabe2gg]

Blacktric wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Loosing additional back story lore is not detracting from the actual game

-To you. To me its essential. This isnt a pew pew. for me. Its a Storydriven Fps with RPG elements. You might be happy with plugging the "Boss mob" after fighting a horde of minions.  Im not.

If it's so essential, why didn't you buy the CE which told you from the outset it would include a bonus character and mission?

It's unbelievable how some people are still trying too hard to justify what Bioware did... It's a DLC about a live Prothean for God's sake and they're selling it as a seperate 10 dollar DLC on day 1 instead of adding it to the core game OR releasing it as an online pass DLC like Zaeed: Price Of Revenge. Yet you're just sitting there and trying to justify what they did like there's nothing wrong about it.

biodrones supporting this will only lead to better things with Bioware's next project, can't wait.

[GuyIncognito21]

TheOptimist wrote...
I rather think it's not.  Pirates find excuses to be pirates, because they're convinced that they're entitled to the fruits of others labor for free.

That's obviously and demonstrably not true, as evidenced by any number of game/movie/music makers who have found immense success by pledging to do right by their customers while asking the customers to do right by the makers.  Bands such as Radiohead and the Foo Fighters have all but begged their customers to pirate their works and people paid anyway.

Comedian Louis CK just released a standup special online, pledged that he wouldn't go after pirates, and asked people to buy it legitimately.  It became his most profitable show.

On Trent Reznor's site right now you can find links to torrent copies of his work.

There is, believe it or not, occasionally honor among thieves.  Piracy responds to the behavior of the industry.  Try to gank your customers and they will come after you.  Deal with people fairly and honestly and a lot of them are going to buy your game.

To just flatly say that the level of piracy remains the same no matter how bad you exploit your customers doesn't pass the straight face test.  It's an indefensible attempt to ignore what the market is telling you.

You see the same phenomenon in economics, called the Laffer Curve.  There comes a point as the tax rate increases that people stop paying taxes or leave, and tax revenue actually falls.

The same is true in any market.  Every person has a threshold of what they're willing to put up with in order to buy your product.  The more hoops people have to jump through and the more contempt you show them, the more likely they are to either refuse to buy your product or to pirate it.

Bioware and EA have decided they want to push that line, we'll see how it works out in the long run.

[Zu Long]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


 So again your excuse is "I want someone to tell me everything and explain everything to me in one place because im too lazy to do research on what i spend my money on which is one of my duties as a consumer" and that is their fault?

I do research I've watched plenty of videos about the ME3 CE edition I didn't see that ONE video out of what? 20? It was in the discription of the CE edition months back and was taken out, what would someone think when they take something out of the discription?

Actually it remained in the line at the bottom the entire time. There was also the news releases at the time, the Mass Effect Wiki, and the topic of who the extra character would be was all over the forum. If you didn't know, you really weren't paying attention.

[Draconis6666]

Calians wrote...

When your a pirate you always win

Only so long as other people dont decide the same. If everyone pirates companies make no money and dont make products to be pirated and then Everyone Loses. Its a situation where you win as long as everyone else doesnt decide they want to win the same way.

[Farbautisonn]

Goneaviking wrote...

"It's unbelievable how some people are still trying too hard to justify
what Bioware did... It's a DLC about a live Prothean for God's sake and
they're selling it as a seperate 10 dollar DLC on day 1 instead of
adding it to the core game OR releasing it as an online pass DLC like
Zaeed: Price Of Revenge. Yet you're just sitting there and trying to
justify what they did like there's nothing wrong about it."

-Did I say that? Do check again.... my prince. . And do link me the page where I said it. Should be easy now that you "found" it.

If the character wasn't put together as part of the main story then it's extra content. The prothean team member was advertised as exclusive content for the Collectors Edition months ago, and is therefore extra content by definition. I made the conscious decision to pay for it as extra content, and so did many other people who preordered the CE.

Its appearance in ME3 will add to the game lore, no one says it won't, but it's obviously not important to the core narrative or it'd be part of the core game.

So yeah, princess, I'll sit here and tell you there's nothing wrong about it.

And if the prothean isnt important to the core narrative, what does that say about the prothean angle in the previous games? 

[TheOptimist]

Calians wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Calians wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Calians wrote...

I wonder how many times this game will be pirated..

Just as many times as it would have been 2 days ago, would be my guess. 

Rather I think it's increasing.

I rather think it's not.  Pirates find excuses to be pirates, because they're convinced that they're entitled to the fruits of others labor for free.

If BW/EA find out that pirated ME3 is off the charts feel free to come back and say I'm right :innocent:

Since pretty much every PC game experiences 'off the charts piracy'  going into the millions of copies, I'm betting this won't be much different.

[Kreidian]

Bluko wrote...

Again you think a year was not enough time to add him in? (Nevermind that they are probably complete "files" for the Prothean Character on the game discs.) Those of us who have made an effort to check here regularilyhave basically known there was going to be an additional Prothean Character. I am honestly surprised those of us who have known haven't been outright banned. But I suppose that could cause an even bigger ruckus trying to cover up deceptive marketing. I was hoping they'd re-consider this honestly, but apparently they haven't.

I suppose it's good thing they used the word "certification" as that meaning can be pretty ambiguous. But the fact is this is just  plain and simple shady business. It does not make me proud to buy anything from Bioware or EA. Quite the opposite actually.


It'd really be no differentthen me leaving all the screws off something, and then telling you that if you wanted the complete product you'd have to pay me extra for the specialized screws I made. Except I forgot to mention that I had excluded the screws on purpose. And hey if you don't mind Bioware/EA charging you more, well good for you.

But to me it is totally absurd to to think a Prothean character can be considered optional. This either indicates:

A) His exitence is completely trivial and serves no purpose nor makes any sense within the context of ME3. (In which I might actually be glad I won't have it.)
Or his existence is actually a pretty big deal so anyone who just buys a regular/used copy of the game ever is essentially missing out on something pretty important.

Have you made a full AAA gaming title like Mass Effect from start to finish? Do you know what it takes to develop such a title and actually ship it? Do you know how much goes into a full development cycle? Do you know how much planning is required? Have you ever worked seriously for any length of time within the video game industry?

I have.

I can tell you that 'certification' is not remotely ambiguous. It takes time and it is very specific.

I can tell you that planning ahead, even a year in advance, even for a DLC, is not only part of creating a game, but also very smart on Bioware's part. Because development for DLC like this is just not that simple, even though the majority of developement for it actually happens after the main content is locked down. If they had not planned ahead there would be no DLC at all for the game until months after release. At which point YOU would be complaining about the lack of DLC.

Planning ahead is part of pre-production, not core development.

Don't make outlandish comparisions and assumptions about things when you have NO CLUE about how they actually work.

Modifié par Kreidian, 23 février 2012 - 05:21 .

[DifferentD17]

Zu Long wrote...


http://www.masseffec...out/collectors/

Technically it even says "Additional downloadable mission and characters."  Wonder if we get more than one?

But yeah, that line has been included on the CE page since it was announced.

Finally some proof out side this forum, though it's still not a product page. I didn't see "characters" So I assume the dog doesn't count as a character?