13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Digifi]

Wait, let me get this straight...we've known for months that the Prothean character existed. CE buyers paid $25 more for that DLC and some trinkets. Since the DLC is $10 the trinkets must be $15 which sounds about right for what the production cost of those trinkets probably are. Either way, CE buyers paid for this DLC, and now a bunch of you are saying you shouldn't have to? If Bioware really knew how to troll they would have made Prothy a CE exclusive. Then we'd see a bunch of threads titled "I'll buy Prothy's freedom! Petition Bioware to make Prothy a DLC everyone can buy!"

[neubourn]

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Guys.


Guys.


Here's an idea.

Rather than the Prothean either having to be plot-critical or completely irrelevant.  How about this idea?


What if he's somewhere inbetween?  You know, a character who isn't plot critical, but whose interactions reveal interesting lore and depth, which doesn't detract from the experience should you miss out.  You know...


Like Shale?

well, seeing as how Protheans FAILED to stop the Reapers...we shouldnt really be listening to what they have to say anyway. I mean, sure...they might be experts in FAILING, but Shepard is all about #winning

[Yuoaman]

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Guys.


Guys.


Here's an idea.

Rather than the Prothean either having to be plot-critical or completely irrelevant.  How about this idea?


What if he's somewhere inbetween?  You know, a character who isn't plot critical, but whose interactions reveal interesting lore and depth, which doesn't detract from the experience should you miss out.  You know...


Like Shale?

That's basically his role - and Shale came free with new copies which is all we want from Prothy.

[fropas]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Your opinon of what is the full game is not valid in this instance for anyone but yourself. Bioware decides what is "The full Game" and that is what is given to you in the package. You deciding that you need additional content is your decision not theirs and not something that entitles them to give it to you for free simply because you believe it is important to your gaming experience.

Of course it's valid, it's his money! 

There are conventions.  Sure, an author could end a book in mid-sentence, sell the rest for $10, and say "well if you want additional content that's your problem," but that doesn't make it acceptable.

"What you can get away with" should not dictate the boundaries of how you treat your customers.  Alienating your consumer base and treating them like mindless husks (ahem) is not a good business model.

Ask the RIAA how that worked out for them.

But they're not alienating consumers. . .you want the character? Pay for him--be the consumer you claim to be. Otherwise, you're essentially complaining about not getting a character that was only promised to CE consumers. Are you a ME3 CE consumer? No? Then how are you being alienated? 

[Africancheesecube]

neubourn wrote...

Dear BioWare....please go back and make this CE exclusive.

There...everyone wins. CE owners still get the content they were promised, non-CE players dont have to worry about paying for DLC on Day 1, and we can all live happily ever after!!! YAY!!

Or here's a better option: give everyone who preordered the game the dlc. Of course if the prothean character really is nonessential to the plot, then it might be better if they don't do that.

[neubourn]

Digifi wrote...

Wait, let me get this straight...we've known for months that the Prothean character existed. CE buyers paid $25 more for that DLC and some trinkets. Since the DLC is $10 the trinkets must be $15 which sounds about right for what the production cost of those trinkets probably are. Either way, CE buyers paid for this DLC, and now a bunch of you are saying you shouldn't have to? If Bioware really knew how to troll they would have made Prothy a CE exclusive. Then we'd see a bunch of threads titled "I'll buy Prothy's freedom! Petition Bioware to make Prothy a DLC everyone can buy!"

yep, and the irony seems to be lost on everyone raging. They think they are entitled to something which they arent. BW should make this CE exclusive again...problem solved. 

[Zu Long]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Any number of people? Pretty sure there were only two. Me and Saren...and I'm pretty sure Saren was on the other team. No Shepard, no saved galaxy in ME1, Vigil = useless.

As I said- If I needed tactical advice on how to give someone else a shot to beat the Reapers, I'd ask the prothean. For beating them right now, I have doubts on how much more advice he'll have than "kill them."

-Did it have to be you? Couldnt it have been "Benny, First Seargeant STG? Or "Garrus, Spectre"? 

So... still stands.

Id like to hope he has more advice like "How to get past shielding" or "how to bypass indoctrination". Or "how to build bigger guns" Or any number of things. Killing is great. If you can.

I'm pretty sure Benny, First Sergeant STG wouldn't have survived. Did you see what I had to go through just to get there? There was a whole squad of STG guys on this Virmire place, and they weren't doing so hot before I got there. And Garrus was C-Sec. He never would have found the proof he needed against Saren if it wasn't for me. Remember?

If he had any advice like that, I'm guessing he wouldn't have needed to build Vigil to tell me to do it.

Modifié par Zu Long, 23 février 2012 - 05:32 .

[MartinDN]

So let me get this straight, day 1 dlc that is not "taken out of the game" contains one of the most eagerly awaited, and indeed, most pivotal plot points and/or characters in the whole series ?

So, basically, im not getting the full game ? Any other way youve thought of to rip us off EA ? Maybe MP chars ? Maps ?

[Draconis6666]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

The bottom line here is that they've pissed off a large number of their audience. If Vega was the extra day 1 guy, no one would care. But its a FREAKING PROTHEAN! A)Even if in some way the fact that he is a Prothean isn't that important (as you sad little apologists keep spewing) and B)Thats a MAJOR spoiler that would have made a great surprise later in the game. Now we all know there's still living Protheans.

Subjective claim that cannot be substantiated you have no numbers on how many people are actualy upset and how many have cancled pre-orders The number of regular users on this forum is not even enough to equal a large portion of their customer base.

 

Here's an idea. . . why don't you quit playing Bioware Defender and go check out some 3rd party gaming sites that are running this story. Scroll down to the comments section and see what people that don't have their lips vacuum attached to Bioware's ****** think. Protip: It's not good.

Those sites and their readers and commenters represent the minority of the market not the majority. The majority of the market do not read main stream gaming sites, let alone 3rd party sites, they do not watch youtube rants about games, they do not visit gaming forums. The vast majority of the gaming consumer market are not "hardcore gamers" who care about all those things. They are the every day gamer who makes their decisions based on if they think a game is interesting or not and if they do they buy it and play it. 

The truth is that both the "biodrones" and the people ranting are both such minorities of the consumer base that neither of their opinions are actualy that relevant to the success of the game. The game will be succesful based on its own merits and if people who play it think its a decent game and tell their friends that they liked it. 

Unless you get a mainstream news source to report on it the average consumer will never even hear of this issue in the first place.

[neubourn]

Africancheesecube wrote...

neubourn wrote...

Dear BioWare....please go back and make this CE exclusive.

There...everyone wins. CE owners still get the content they were promised, non-CE players dont have to worry about paying for DLC on Day 1, and we can all live happily ever after!!! YAY!!

Or here's a better option: give everyone who preordered the game the dlc. Of course if the prothean character really is nonessential to the plot, then it might be better if they don't do that.

Thats a fair enough compromise, a la Zaeed, a reward to people who bought the game new before it was released. I support that.

But only if people knock off this sense of entitlement.

Modifié par neubourn, 23 février 2012 - 05:34 .

[Zu Long]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Zu Long wrote...


Actually it remained in the line at the bottom the entire time. There was also the news releases at the time, the Mass Effect Wiki, and the topic of who the extra character would be was all over the forum. If you didn't know, you really weren't paying attention.

The Wiki is made by fans and that doesn't count as realible information. I was paying attention Chris said it was being removed.


http://social.biowar...51111/1#7551129

The text about it being Prothean WAS removed. There was still a part about getting another squad member.

[TheOptimist]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
I rather think it's not.  Pirates find excuses to be pirates, because they're convinced that they're entitled to the fruits of others labor for free.

That's obviously and demonstrably not true, as evidenced by any number of game/movie/music makers who have found immense success by pledging to do right by their customers while asking the customers to do right by the makers.  Bands such as Radiohead and the Foo Fighters have all but begged their customers to pirate their works and people paid anyway.

Comedian Louis CK just released a standup special online, pledged that he wouldn't go after pirates, and asked people to buy it legitimately.  It became his most profitable show.

On Trent Reznor's site right now you can find links to torrent copies of his work.

There is, believe it or not, occasionally honor among thieves.  Piracy responds to the behavior of the industry.  Try to gank your customers and they will come after you.  Deal with people fairly and honestly and a lot of them are going to buy your game.

To just flatly say that the level of piracy remains the same no matter how bad you exploit your customers doesn't pass the straight face test.  It's an indefensible attempt to ignore what the market is telling you.

You see the same phenomenon in economics, called the Laffer Curve.  There comes a point as the tax rate increases that people stop paying taxes or leave, and tax revenue actually falls.

The same is true in any market.  Every person has a threshold of what they're willing to put up with in order to buy your product.  The more hoops people have to jump through and the more contempt you show them, the more likely they are to either refuse to buy your product or to pirate it.

Bioware and EA have decided they want to push that line, we'll see how it works out in the long run.

Just because many people WON'T pirate and still buy even when given the chance to pirate doesn't mean that stuff isn't still pirated.  Tons of people still pirate music that's available for a $1.30 on iTunes.  The Witcher 2, which gets held up as a great example of a game and company that supports and respects it's fanbase, has been pirated 4.5 Million times.  On the low side. 
http://www.geek.com/...times-20111130/

Now, is there an argument to be made that many of those pirating wouldn't have bought the game anyway? Sure.  But they still grabbed it for free, got some fun out of it, and laughed at the suckers who actually tried to support an anti-DRM company.  So you can defend pirates if you want.  But don't say it's only because Bioware and EA are meanies.  That's just a lie.

[GuyIncognito21]

neubourn wrote...

But as soon as BW actually makes somethign WORTH getting a CE over, i.e. a prothy teammate and Eden Prime missions....wll....that just wont stand!!! How dare BW make GOOD content exclusive to a CE? The nerve of them!!!

Yeah, that's a complete misrepresentation of the argument.  The argument is not that the DLC is "good."  Undead Nightmare was a tremendous DLC for Red Dead Redemption.  Fallout has routinely had great DLC packages about which no one has complained.

The problem is that it's quite obvious here that this content was completed during the development cycle of the game, and that it's relevant to the core narrative of the game.

So it's DLC only in the sense that Bioware is selling it as such.

A sequel to a book or movie is additional content.  The middle chapter of the book should be in it from the beginning.  You can't just hack everything to bits and pretend it's all "bonus" content, not without showing an immense amount of contempt for your consumers anyway.

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 23 février 2012 - 05:34 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

Draconis6666 wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

The bottom line here is that they've pissed off a large number of their audience. If Vega was the extra day 1 guy, no one would care. But its a FREAKING PROTHEAN! A)Even if in some way the fact that he is a Prothean isn't that important (as you sad little apologists keep spewing) and B)Thats a MAJOR spoiler that would have made a great surprise later in the game. Now we all know there's still living Protheans.

Subjective claim that cannot be substantiated you have no numbers on how many people are actualy upset and how many have cancled pre-orders The number of regular users on this forum is not even enough to equal a large portion of their customer base.

 

Here's an idea. . . why don't you quit playing Bioware Defender and go check out some 3rd party gaming sites that are running this story. Scroll down to the comments section and see what people that don't have their lips vacuum attached to Bioware's ****** think. Protip: It's not good.

Those sites and their readers and commenters represent the minority of the market not the majority. The majority of the market do not read main stream gaming sites, let alone 3rd party sites, they do not watch youtube rants about games, they do not visit gaming forums. The vast majority of the gaming consumer market are not "hardcore gamers" who care about all those things. They are the every day gamer who makes their decisions based on if they think a game is interesting or not and if they do they buy it and play it. 

The truth is that both the "biodrones" and the people ranting are both such minorities of the consumer base that neither of their opinions are actualy that relevant to the success of the game. The game will be succesful based on its own merits and if people who play it think its a decent game and tell their friends that they liked it. 

Unless you get a mainstream news source to report on it the average consumer will never even hear of this issue in the first place.

. . . or you can just stay here and take things down by a few millitorr. Let us know when you base out.

[Shatterhand1701]

Sargerus wrote...

Its hilarious that ppl are thinking : "Lets boycott ME3 to teach EA/BW a lesson!"

ME3 will sell like water in the middle of the desert.


Every end of a trilogy sells A LOT, here are some examples:

Halo 3
Modern Warfare 3( hopefully MW4 will not happen)
Spiderman 3
Transformers 3
SW: Return of the Jedi
Lotr: Return of the King


Boycott or not. ME3 will sell A LOT. BW/EA have nothing to be worried about.

I actually find myself hoping that Bioware doesn't budge on this issue at all.  I think they should stick to their guns and charge for the DLC.  If people want it so badly, like those who think the Prothean is SO important to the game, then they should be willing to plunk down the cash to get it if they're not buying the CE.

I think we'll see plenty of people playing and loving the game come release time, and all this sound and fury will signify next to nothing.  Sure, a couple of die-hards will still be standing with their arms folded in front of them, jaw hardened and shaking their heads defiantly while the rest of us play and have fun, but I'm not going to feel any pity for 'em.

[StephanieBengal]

Honestly when you break it down, it just sounds like folks are pissed that they have to pay for something.

Despite the fact people buy stupid and pointless **** all the time.

Stop complaining.

[Kiltman]

 It looks like this issue will help kill the slightly less than two weeks until launch...

Is it a dumb trend that the gaming industry seems to keep going too, yes
Is it kinda hilarious and sad that some idiot thought that $20 is the same as £20? A bit
Do I feel A bit sorry for those foreigners who have to spend more for the same thing? Of course

But I don't feel sorry for anybody that didn't pre-order the CE some time in the year it was available, that comes with about $40 dollars in additional content for half that. 

This to me seems at the moment the most egregious cases of holding out content, way worse than Rocksteady holding out Robin. I mean it was in the Art book (I believe), that shows a character who was there all throuout development, plus the fact that he has dialogue with other characters is an even surer sign that they held him out. Good luck to those that boycott, but if you guys win.... us CE buyers better get something in the place of the character that we are losing as an exclusive free extra if they don't then they'll have another group pissed.

[monika26]

I honestly don't see why anyone is shocked by this move. We knew Prothy was coming since they announced the CE and accidently let it slip that he was included. I assumed from the start that he'd be available as day 1 DLC.

Should he have been part of the main game? YES! Same as LoTSB should have been included with ME2 or at least released to all via the Cerberus Network. It was important to the story of Mass Effect. So nobody will get any arguments from me about Prothy being an important part of the overall Mass Effect story.

Sadly this is the world we gamers find ourselves in now. They're trying to monetize every aspect of games they can get away with. Heck, $10 for Prothy is a bargain compared to all of the cash the COD players have to pay for map packs! At least we're getting actual content.

I really don't like this move towards DLC we've seen over the past several years, but it's how things are now. And yes, it does suck.

The worst things though are "exclusive" DLCs. At least everyone can get Prothy, one way or another. I really hope that all of these "exclusive" DLCs are opened up to the everyone a few months after the game has been released.

As for me, I'll end up buying nearly all of the DLC. I'm an addict.   The only things I didn't get for ME2 were the second appearance pack, the pack with the inferno armor, and the interactive comic.

Mass Effect brings me more than enough enjoyment to toss money at it. But that's just me. I understand that others may feel differently.

[Evilelf007]

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Guys.


Guys.


Here's an idea.

Rather than the Prothean either having to be plot-critical or completely irrelevant.  How about this idea?


What if he's somewhere inbetween?  You know, a character who isn't plot critical, but whose interactions reveal interesting lore and depth, which doesn't detract from the experience should you miss out.  You know...


Like Shale?

You mean, not be plot relevent but end up being a very insightful character instead, to shed some light on things you otherwise wouldn't have known, but in no way changes how things ultimately play out?

That's exactly what I expect to be honest.

[Draconis6666]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Of course it's valid, it's his money! 

There are conventions.  Sure, an author could end a book in mid-sentence, sell the rest for $10, and say "well if you want additional content that's your problem," but that doesn't make it acceptable.

"What you can get away with" should not dictate the boundaries of how you treat your customers.  Alienating your consumer base and treating them like mindless husks (ahem) is not a good business model.

Ask the RIAA how that worked out for them.

The game is not incomplete because you dont have this character as your example is. The fact that you feel it might be missing something personaly does not stop you from being able to complete it and it make sense which you're example would. Your example is an example of being sold an unfinished product and then charged for the rest of it. 

This is not an example of that this is a finished product that has some extra stuff that you can buy on the side that people seem to feel they shouldnt have to pay for because they think its important. Its certianly his money and he has the right to spend it or not spend it thats all the power it being his money gives him. What the seller decides to do in response to that choice is not up to him, or you, or me, or anyone but the seller.

[nitefyre410]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

neubourn wrote...

But as soon as BW actually makes somethign WORTH getting a CE over, i.e. a prothy teammate and Eden Prime missions....wll....that just wont stand!!! How dare BW make GOOD content exclusive to a CE? The nerve of them!!!

Yeah, that's a complete misrepresentation of the argument.  The argument is not that the DLC is "good."  Undead Nightmare was a tremendous DLC for Red Dead Redemption.  Fallout has routinely had great DLC packages about which no one has complained.

The problem is that it's quite obvious here that this content was completed during the development cycle of the game, and that it's relevant to the core narrative of the game.

So it's DLC only in the sense that Bioware is selling it as such.

A sequel to a book or movie is additional content.  The middle chapter of the book should be in it from the beginning.  You can't just hack everything to bits and pretend it's all "bonus" content, not without showing an immense amount of contempt for your consumers anyway.

 

Finally somebody is getting it...

[brfritos]

Sargerus wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I'm very proud of the internet. BW's greed is the biggest story on N4G at the moment. And with TB backing up a boycott, it's looking good.

-People whine on the internet over a news about 'X' game
-Game launches,sells very well
-People forget about the whining and move on with their lives
-Rinse and repeat


If you think this boycott will affect EA/Bioware, well you are VERY naive 

You know what? It will!

Like TB wisely said, who remeber BF3's Physical Warfare Pack case and because of fan pressure it was later maded available to all consumers who buyed the game?

Excuse me, but he's right, this DLC is offensive. We are talking about a Prothean, a race that is vital to the lore since game one, not some piece of armor or a weapon.
And now is cutted from the game and only available through a CE or buying alone as a DLC?
Even if he has no importance in the squad story, not huge impact in the war assets you have to build, no impact in Shepard's personal story, for god's sake, is a Prothean!

The race that supposelly build the Citadel, helped Shepard with the beacons and on Ilos and still have an impact on the story in ME3 and it's end.
And people say he don't have importance???

Is up to the consumers to draw a line and tell companies what they can or can't do.
I'm a hardcore fan of Mass Effect, I have the two games on disc, all the comics they released, but I will not buy ME3.
And yes, I was looking foward to it, but this is too much.

Is the same thing I buy a car but it comes without the doors and I need to pay them separately.
Like you know, they are not too important.

Modifié par brfritos, 23 février 2012 - 05:38 .

[GuyIncognito21]

fropas wrote...

But they're not alienating consumers. . .you want the character? Pay for him--be the consumer you claim to be. Otherwise, you're essentially complaining about not getting a character that was only promised to CE consumers. Are you a ME3 CE consumer? No? Then how are you being alienated? 

They quite obviously are, or this thread wouldn't have grown 50 pages in the last 4 hours.

They promised exclusives to the CE, that's correct.  They didn't promise exclusives integral to the narrative the series has to tell.

That's the distinction the defenders of this policy don't seem to make.  You're treating this like a ticket that gives you free concessions at the movie theater, and to many of us it's a ticket that entitles you to see the last 10 minuts of the movie that you only get to see if you pay extra.

[AdmiralCheez]

I'm pretty sure the number of people boycotting because of this is lower than the number of people who preordered the N7 edition. Losing a few hundred sales is preferable to having to refund thousands of people ten dollars each. Hence, we're sh*tting ourselves if we expect them to make "From Ashes" free.

If they actually make it free for all new copies (and refunded the people who already purchased it), then I'll eat my words. My respect for Bioware/EA will increase tenfold. But let's not be stupid or get our hopes up.

[neubourn]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

neubourn wrote...

But as soon as BW actually makes somethign WORTH getting a CE over, i.e. a prothy teammate and Eden Prime missions....wll....that just wont stand!!! How dare BW make GOOD content exclusive to a CE? The nerve of them!!!

Yeah, that's a complete misrepresentation of the argument.  The argument is not that the DLC is "good."  Undead Nightmare was a tremendous DLC for Red Dead Redemption.  Fallout has routinely had great DLC packages about which no one has complained.

The problem is that it's quite obvious here that this content was completed during the development cycle of the game, and that it's relevant to the core narrative of the game.

So it's DLC only in the sense that Bioware is selling it as such.

A sequel to a book or movie is additional content.  The middle chapter of the book should be in it from the beginning.  You can't just hack everything to bits and pretend it's all "bonus" content, not without showing an immense amount of contempt for your consumers anyway.

Just because the character/mission might provide lore or backstory, does not mean it is essential to the game itself. 

I compare this to Liara and LotSB. yes, both Liara AND the SB are important figures in ME lore, and played minor roles in ME2. And yes, there were some audio files on disc, that predicted it would be DLC. Same with the Prothean...i doubt the character will be essential to completing ME3. Will it provide lore and story expansion? Of course...just liek LotSB did. But you didnt need to complete LotSB to complete ME2, and you wont need this to complete ME3.

Also, this has been announced for MONTHS as a CE perk, so people should have known...FOR MONTHS now, that they werent going to get this for free.