13369 réponses à ce sujet

[JJDrakken]

Folks go, well I am glad I got my Collectors edition or digital deluxe, etc.. I get this for free. Look at it folks, you get way more other stuff & you got a "completed" game for large price tag. You payed that much for all that "OTHER" stuff, not completed game. Standard pricing gets nothing really & an uncompleted game, unless they want to fork out 10 more bucks.

Same as Sebastian Vael for Dragon Age 2, you play Dragon Age 2 without him, some things just don't make sense or really connect well(then again that game didnt connect well.), But once you add that DLC, you immediately realized he was SUPPOSE to be in the game & was cut out for Day 1 DLC for more money.

I bet same going on with the current Day 1 DLC.


JJ

[fropas]

MartinDN wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

El Ejcovero wrote...

Once again for those who don't get what the problem is, and no, we are not alright with this in any game past, present or future, and we have to draw the line someplace, here:

Except once again your argument is flawed and fails before it begins because it implies something that you have no proof of and are just guessing is the case, mostly because you have no concept of how game development works but think you do and have decided that how you think it works has to be the case so this must be true.

Refer your attention to a very early script of me3, pre spellcheck, the prothean along with eden prime is in there, PRE collectors edition.

So? The final script should be the same as the first one? 

[Evilelf007]

Deaddude56 wrote...

Will the Prothean be a dynamic squadmate where you can go talk to them and a have a real conversation, or will he be more like Zaeed or Kasumi who have one-sided conversations with you?

My guess is, he will be exactly like Zaeed or Kasumi.  Will likely tell stories like Zaeed, but be of Prothean lore/history etc.  Interesting and insightful at best.

[Bluko]

JJDrakken wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch  Total Biscuit's thought on the matter, I agree.  Factor in Origin, I never thought I would honestly say this.  I am not going buy M.E.3, to this day I never thought I would say that.  Until Origin made a non requirement & this something fixed up.  My advetures of shepard end with ME2.


JJ

Yep bingo. Sums everything I'm trying to say.

[Draconis6666]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
You would have just not gotten it at all then and it would never have existed which might arguably have been better, because it would have been simply scrapped and tossed aside when it was initialy cut from the game, and not completed for optional content once the game was submitted for certification over a month ago.

Weren't you just the one trying to dismiss "conjecture?"  Is there any reason at all for me to believe you didn't entirely make that entire post up?

They spent all this time and energy developing this character and the content that attends him, but they would have just jettisoned it after the fact if they couldn't get paid for it?

Man, even if that's true I'm not sure it makes the situation any better.

It is conjecture to a point yes, because obviously I have no way of knowing what bioware would have done in the case that DLC did not exist, they could have delayed the game instead to include it spend more money on development decreasing their overall sales profits, but its far more likley they would simply cut it and release on their deadline as planned. That happens all the time and used to happen all the time. Things get cut from games all the time at all kinds of development stages. Sometimes this includes things that are 90% completed, because games have deadlines. They cost large amounts of money to produce and every delay costs more money. Before DLC it happened and the re**** was that things just got cut and we never saw them at all, characters, side stories, alternate endings, entire locations, that were in various stages of completion that were abandoned due to time. 

The benefit of DLC is that now when the game is sent for certification months before its actual release date you have all that time to take those particlly completed projects and turn them into something  You can finish that character that was almost done or that level that wasnt working quite right and release it as DLC, on day or or a month later or 3 months later whatever. The fact remains that just because something comes out as DLC at release does not mean it was something that could have been in the actual game without delaying the entire game another month. So yes maybe we could have all had the prothean on the disc for everyone to enjoy if you wanted to buy ME 3 in april instead of march (or possibly even later).

[DJBare]

Draconis6666 wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

Blacktric wrote...


I don't mind paying for the DLC if it has decent content in it. I absolutely loved Lair Of The Shadow Broker and even bought The Arrival on the release date. I'm just pissed off because of how they made a Prothean teammate a seperate DLC on launch when a character like James Vega is in the full game.

EXACTLY, why is Vega more important than a live Prothean?! What lore or any impact on the main story will Vega have?

Without playing the game you dont know do you, so thats a stupid argument.

Marketing:
Listen up guys, we got a choice for a DLC character to make extra bucks, do we go for Vega or the Prothean?
Team looks up at him, was that a serious question?

[AdmiralCheez]

The Prothean (minor spoiler) is actually a very reactive squadmate.

Especially around Liara.

[Chala]

Yuoaman wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

They would still make a profit if they made the DLC free - since people would have an incentive to buy the game new, or to buy the online pass if they bought it used - just like ME2. Or did ME2 become a colossal failure when I was looking away?

EA isn't about making a profit.

EA is about making the most profit possible.

Hence no free stuff unless the boycott is actually large enough that giving out "From Ashes" free would be the only way to restore those losses.

I don't agree with day one DLC.  I don't agree with a lot of what EA's done.  But the line, at least for me, hasn't been crossed yet.

I'll be sure to let the entire internet know when it is.

I'm not an economist, but I'm sure there are ways to maximize profits without pissing off a huge subset of your fanbase.

Yes... Just launch the dlc after a month or two (like Kasumi) and problem solved.

Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 23 février 2012 - 06:28 .

[JJDrakken]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Deaddude56 wrote...

Will the Prothean be a dynamic squadmate where you can go talk to them and a have a real conversation, or will he be more like Zaeed or Kasumi who have one-sided conversations with you?

My guess is, he will be exactly like Zaeed or Kasumi.  Will likely tell stories like Zaeed, but be of Prothean lore/history etc.  Interesting and insightful at best.

He's probably going be more like Sebastian Vael of DA2, where lack of him, makes game seem ok, but once you get him in, you realize oh snap he was suppose to be in this game, because now things makes more sense.


JJ

[RiouHotaru]

El Ejcovero wrote...
*Same old spheal, same old images*

The best part?  We have three, THREE people from Bioware that confirm how 'From Ashes' was made, which dispels your picture.  Since you feel compelled to post it anyway, I'll respond in kind:

Mike, Stanley, and Casey disagree with your assertion.  I'll believe them over some guy on the forums.

[Meesherbeans]

JJDrakken wrote...

Same as Sebastian Vael for Dragon Age 2, you play Dragon Age 2 without him, some things just don't make sense or really connect well.

I respectfully disagree. I have played DA2 countless times and did not purchase Sebastian. I have never felt like things did not make sense. He was filler at best.

[ForceXev]

StephanieBengal wrote...

Barfwak wrote...

I don't understand this controversy at all. Did people not play ME2? They're doing the exact same thing they did last time. Zaeed Masani then, Prothean now. One extra dude, one extra mission.

The thing to complain about is the retailer specific N7 armor and rifle. Seriously, who the hell wants to buy anything from GameStop? Ugh. I'm not exactly a fan of Origin, but at least they're not a glorified pawn shop.

People are stupid, you seem to be one of the smart ones. 

Apparantly not smart enough to know Zaeed Masani was free in all versions of ME2, and that Zaeed Masani is not nearly as critical a character as the Prothean.

[fropas]

El Ejcovero wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


And your perfectly welcome to have that opinon, but Bioware has just as much right to say that it doesnt and not include it in the main game. The game is not created based on your opinion its based on Bioware's opinion of how they want to make the game and its up to you if you want to play it or not.

How do you know Biowares opinions? Do you work for them or something? Is Bioware's opinion your opinion, but you just covered that part up?

And as I said hours ago, these:

Don't understand this:

Since they just swallow whatever they are given.

Yes! I am a fanboy, and I'm not ashamed. And I don't swallow whatever I'm given. I swallow what I like and I'm not afraid to admit it. What's twenty-dollars compared to hours of ME satisfaction?

[Draconis6666]

fropas wrote...

MartinDN wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

El Ejcovero wrote...

Once again for those who don't get what the problem is, and no, we are not alright with this in any game past, present or future, and we have to draw the line someplace, here:

Except once again your argument is flawed and fails before it begins because it implies something that you have no proof of and are just guessing is the case, mostly because you have no concept of how game development works but think you do and have decided that how you think it works has to be the case so this must be true.

Refer your attention to a very early script of me3, pre spellcheck, the prothean along with eden prime is in there, PRE collectors edition.

So? The final script should be the same as the first one? 

Kasumi was planned early enough that she had voice files on the game disc, and was mentioned multiple times before the game ever released but was not available till much much later. Him being in the scirpt at some point does not mean he was not cut at some stage of production and then picked back up as DLC later when the rest of the game was completed. That is not the same thing as intentionaly removing a part of the game to sell it later as DLC.

[DifferentD17]

El Ejcovero wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


And your perfectly welcome to have that opinon, but Bioware has just as much right to say that it doesnt and not include it in the main game. The game is not created based on your opinion its based on Bioware's opinion of how they want to make the game and its up to you if you want to play it or not.

How do you know Biowares opinions? Do you work for them or something? Is Bioware's opinion your opinion, but you just covered that part up?

And as I said hours ago, these:

Don't understand this:

Since they just swallow whatever they are given.

I'm a huge fan too, I guess not as a big a fan to give EA and Bioware all the money they want. People keep saying there's a lot of content already in the Standard Edition, and this is additional, yet Bethesda brings out a 100+ hour game doesn't make you buy it new and doesn't make you buy BS DLC.

[Azure33]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Azure33 wrote...


It is irrelevant whether it is demonstrably unethical. What is relevant is that it has upset many customers and potential customers. Perception is more important thatn actual truth when it comes to how consumers feel about your company. There is a widely held perception that BioWare has been abusing the DLC system over the last several titles they have released. What they have done with ME 3 day 0 DLC has solidified that perception in consumers minds. Some consumers, including myself, will now consider whether to buy another title from BioWare based on this perception. 

That is bad for their business.

Only if those consumers represent enough consumers to impact the business which no one can claim at this point with actual proof. Until sales of ME 3 are figures that can be looked at you have nothing but your opinion on if their business practice is bad or not. The simple fact that you and some people ont his forum and some gaming sites disagree with the practice does not make it a bad business practice. No business is ever going to please all of its customers, but as long as the majority of the customers agree with and go along with it they are not impacting their business significantly. If it turns out in the end that the majority agree with you then  you would be correct but at the moment its an irrelevant argument because you have no idea how many consumers are dis-satisfied to know if its even enough to cause an impact in sales.

It does not need to be a majority of people that agree with me, and to be honest I don't really care if others do personally. Practices like this do create negative press and create bad PR for BioWare. Their image has been tarneshed over the last few releases and it will eventually hurt their sales. Granted it may not mean that ME3 is a bust(it likely won't be), but it is still bad for business over all. They are trading short term profits for long term good will. It is a business strategy that eventually kills companies that require goodwill to remain competitive. 

[fatalmaverick]

Zu Long wrote...

Again, inaccurate. This is more like the guy in front of you buys a big mac meal. Gets a drink and fries with his Big mac. You walk up, order a big mac. When your burger comes out, you ask why you didn't get fries, cause the guy in front of you did, and he got his order in about the same amount of time it took them to produce your big mac. The response? "Yeah, but he bought the meal."

The fact that you did not get fries with your big mac does not change the fact that you got a full and complete big mac, just as delicious as the first guy's. You just didn't get fries, because you didn't pay for them.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Okay, the guy ordered a big mac combo, he got fries and a drink. I ordered a single big mac, and got a single big mac. Now, did his big mac have a chunk of it missing and lopped on the side like an afterthought, with a $10 price tag on it? and was mine missing a chunk?

[Zu Long]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

A) Zaeed was free.

Zaeed's story had absolutely nothing to do with the core narrative of the game.

If EITHER of those things were true about this new character, the complaints would by and large disappear.

How is the Prothean's story central to the core narrative?

"Ya mon, we got owa bombab butts kicked. It was pretty embarrasin' mon."

<--That's pretty much all he's going to have to say. Maybe something about getting revenge. Otherwise? Not much someone else wasn't already going to say. Not sure how any of that is plot critical. We already know what happened to the protheans, he just puts a face and texture on it. Cool, but not actually important.

[nevar00]

Evilelf007 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Just because he's a Prothean doesn't mean he is in any way essential to anything! How can a guy who's been completely out of touch of the entire galaxy from a race that completely failed to stop the reapers be suddenly essential now? He will have lore and history not before available, but he will not be vital to anything...

You guys just feel that because he's a Prothean, a member of the race that all of Mass Effect's tech was supposedly based off of (which it wasn't really, it's all based off of Reaper tech), he MUST be important. Get that idea out of your head right now... as he will be more for the fun of the idea more than essential to anything at all. You will be sorely disappointed if that is your expectation.

The fact that there is a living member of a thought-to-be dead species should have been important enough to make it into the main game.  Regardless of if he was going to be important to the plot itself or not.  Regardless of if he's a random soldier or a top scientist.  The Protheans have been built up for 2 games: to have a member of their species turn out to be alive should be a big reveal in the game, similiar to Legion, and not tacked on as DLC.

Now if they thought this was insignificant enough to only include as DLC well, in that case there must be something wrong with Bioware's writing staff.

So again, you are only upset not because of the essentialness of the character, but the coolness of having a Prothean squadmate.  Maybe you should've thought ahead and gone for the CE seeing all the cool stuff it came with... including a free extra squadmate.  That's what I saw and why I pre-ordered my CE copy ASAP!

You are only upset that you are now finding out you have to pay extra for something so cool.  A lot of us already anticipated such a thing and are being rewarded for it!

Again, you only have yourself to blame IMO.

I DID preorder the CE.  I'm still angry that they decided to take something that could (if not butchered) add so much to the lore and be such a big moment in the game and threw it on as an afterthought. 

Or as a "gift" for those of us who preordered the CE just to make everyone else pay for what should be a pretty essential part of the Mass Effect world/experience.

You and I have a very different idea of what essential means then.  The Prothean will at best be a walking talking codex of Prothean lore.  That is not essential.  Essential is something that advances story and plot, that the game cannot be completed without.

The Prothean will be a cool addition, but will not even be close to anything considered vital to the game.  This character will only add to cool factor... nothing more.  That's why he's a dlc character in the first place.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.  You can have a sandwich with two slices of bread with a piece of cheese in the middle... that doesn't mean it will be very good. 

Not every mission or character in ME 3 will have a direct impact on the last level.  Even if the Prothean was a walking talking codex - and I sort of expect he will be - it still would have been a huge moment to find one of the races that have been built up and played such a crucial role in the series.  To have this thrown on as day 1 $10 DLC for those of you who didn't order the CE seems like a really slimy move.  It doesn't affect me directly but I don't like seeing them heading in this direction.  And in the end they never even really promoted the fact that the additional character was a Prothean of all things: I don't think it's a stretch to believe most assumed it was just another Zaheed.

Admiral Cheez has a good point though, not much can be done now unless Bioware pulls something out of their hat.  The only way I can really see this remotely justified is if you run into him or other Protheans regardless of the DLC... and from the leaked script that isn't the case, or so I've heard.

[jkd1975]

From what I understand of the script leak there were two versions. An earlier rougher draft/summary and one likely closer to the finished product we will be getting. The prothean character was there in both drafts of the script. In the earlier draft he was essential to the plot, in the later draft he was not. In light of this it is difficult for me to believe that the prothean had not been planned since early in the game development and later stripped out to be dlc. Regardless, even if this is actually the case I doubt bioware could/would admit to it so we'll never know for sure. And I've got the CE pre-ordered so I get the character but I do find this dlc trend troubling as a consumer.

Modifié par jkd1975, 23 février 2012 - 06:27 .

[GuyIncognito21]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Uhhh...but the Prothean's story isn't connected with the core narrative.  You can play ME3 without him and NOTHING CHANGES.

The latter comment doesn't prove the former.  Clearly ANYTHING having to do with the protheans is connected to the core narrative.

And obviously something changes: you know more of the story.  Again, that's like justifying chopping out the middle of book by saying "it still ends the same way."

That's so not the point.

[FlyingCow371]

Don't panic everybody. If having the bonus character is that superimportant to you, but not important enough to get the CE, just go preorder from amazon this week . Then you get a $10 credit. Do you know something else that costs about $10? This bonus character dude. So you can get the game, with the extra character, all for the same $60 price that you expect to pay for any new game.

[spark_ptz]

Yuoaman wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

They would still make a profit if they made the DLC free - since people would have an incentive to buy the game new, or to buy the online pass if they bought it used - just like ME2. Or did ME2 become a colossal failure when I was looking away?

EA isn't about making a profit.

EA is about making the most profit possible.

Hence no free stuff unless the boycott is actually large enough that giving out "From Ashes" free would be the only way to restore those losses.

I don't agree with day one DLC.  I don't agree with a lot of what EA's done.  But the line, at least for me, hasn't been crossed yet.

I'll be sure to let the entire internet know when it is.

I'm not an economist, but I'm sure there are ways to maximize profits without pissing off a huge subset of your fanbase.

Alright, so that implies poor marketing strategy. That is a very, very different issue to whether this DLC has been developed and released in an underhanded and unacceptable way.

[Zu Long]

fatalmaverick wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Again, inaccurate. This is more like the guy in front of you buys a big mac meal. Gets a drink and fries with his Big mac. You walk up, order a big mac. When your burger comes out, you ask why you didn't get fries, cause the guy in front of you did, and he got his order in about the same amount of time it took them to produce your big mac. The response? "Yeah, but he bought the meal."

The fact that you did not get fries with your big mac does not change the fact that you got a full and complete big mac, just as delicious as the first guy's. You just didn't get fries, because you didn't pay for them.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Okay, the guy ordered a big mac combo, he got fries and a drink. I ordered a single big mac, and got a single big mac. Now, did his big mac have a chunk of it missing and lopped on the side like an afterthought, with a $10 price tag on it? and was mine missing a chunk?

No, yours was missing fries. The fries are crunchy and delicious and complement the big mac, but they are not critical to then Big Mac experience. The other guy paid more and got fries. YOU could still pay more, and get fries. The only irrational thing is to expect fries without paying anything.

[Draconis6666]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


And your perfectly welcome to have that opinon, but Bioware has just as much right to say that it doesnt and not include it in the main game. The game is not created based on your opinion its based on Bioware's opinion of how they want to make the game and its up to you if you want to play it or not.

How do you know Biowares opinions? Do you work for them or something? Is Bioware's opinion your opinion, but you just covered that part up?

Bioware's opinon is whatever bioware wants it to be, whatever bioware decides goes onto the game disc as the final game is their opinion. It is not up to anyone else, including me to decide that for them. Our only responsibility is to decide if that product is something we want to play and spend money on. We do not have the right to tell them that their game is not complete because we want something else added to it.