I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.
Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.
That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.
I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.
Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.
Mike
Modifié par Michael Gamble, 23 février 2012 - 07:20 .
I hate seeing everyone shouting "herpaderp incomplete game blah blah whine whine". ME3 is a complete game on its own. Not having Prothy will in no way hinder your ability to complete the game, or enjoy it. Prothy is something extra that, while being a cool squadmate, has no bearing on this game's plot. Probably just as much as Zaeed and Kasumi did on ME2. You don't like it? Don't buy it.
if he's an extra then all the dancers and bartenders in Omega can be taken out and it''ll still be a complete game since, you know, they're extras.
/sarcasm
not everyone has to be a game-changer. some characters have bigger roles than others. that does not mean their exclusion means nothing. you can take out Tails from Sonic 2 and it's still the same damn game, but seriously, would you rather have Tails in or not?
Hmmmm now that I think about it I don't think I want this even if it were free.
Totally destroys the lore that the Protheans are extinct. Oh wait it'll be cool to have one so lets have one alive for some reason.
Yeah I think I'll pass.
f1r3storm wrote... But you're paying for the full game in the state it was when it was content complete. Since the DLC was developed afterwards, he isn't part of the full game then.
Again, it's begging the question. You say the game was content complete and then they added the prothean, I say the game wasn't content complete until the prothean was added.
Besides that, if you wanted the "full game", you would have had to pre-order the CE since they mentioned a bonus character and mission right from the beginning.
Again, they wilfully refused to mention that the bonus character would be integral to the plot. A person would have been quite reasonable in assuming that the extra character was something along the lines of Zaeed or Katsumi, in which case there would be no controversy.
Because its not Core content, its content you BELEVE is Core to your enjoyment of the game that is NOT the same thing, and not grounds for asking that it be given to you for free. It is only "CORE" content if the game would not functino without it
Then you could take out all side missions, and all other characters as well, the game would still function.
Yes you could, and everytime a game is made numerous side quests and characters are cut exactly as you say. With DLC some of those characters and sidequests are complteted later. Yes you could make a game that has no side quests and is just a single main quest and there are plenty of games like that linear adventure games with no sidequests and only a few key characters. What the developer actualy decides to give you is the core product and as long as it functions and works everything else that they may decide later to give you is optional. It is not your right to tell them "this product is not complete because it doesnt have A, B and C additional things that I think it should" you can deny them your money because you think it should have those things but you have no real right to demand they be included simply because you think it should and expect that to happen.
I have a right to demand what ever I want, doesn't mean I'll get anything for it. I'm buying a product, It's like I'm buying a house missing a support beam, it won't make the house fall over, but it would make it safer if that support beam there.
Hmmmm now that I think about it I don't think I want this even if it were free. Totally destroys the lore that the Protheans are extinct. Oh wait it'll be cool to have one so lets have one alive for some reason. Yeah I think I'll pass.
I can actually understand this. I didn't really care for the idea either, but it's there now.
The developer is selling a product for what they believe it is worth. If you do not like it, you do not have to buy it. You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to this product.
nooo, you are using old logic to a new medium!
It is now possible for things to be removed and added at whim. This logic implies that they can listen to the consumer, and we are entitled to tell them what we think. We are entitled to not have our money taken for something we thought should have been there in the first place. That's like somebody paying in advance to watch a remaster of Forest Gump, thinking it was the original, when really they entirely removed tom hanks. of course not this drastic, but I did it to support my point
I read only the first five or so pages, so please forgive me if I'm repeating things.
First of all, the idea of withholding elements of a finished product to sell as a seperate entity is clearly unethical, especially when there is evidence of the matter. There is no question about it. Anybody who denies that is either uneducated, stupid or hypocritical.
There is, however, the issue that it is ultimately the developer's decision of what is and what isn't a part of the final product. So, if Bioware (EA, really) decides to **** us all right in the ***, we have no choice, but to bend over and pay out the $10 for the "DLC."
Ethics in the gaming industry is virtually non-existent. In fact the only time ethics come into question in any moneymaking endeavour is if the law prescribes some kind of moral oversight.
I saw they advertised more content for the CE, and I knew I'd want the content so I did as they asked and spent the extra cash. That's not entitlement, that is simple consumerism.
/signed again
This wasn't a secret, guys. A secret squadmate and mission was announced at the same time as the CE itself was announced. There's no underhandedness going on here.
I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.
Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.
That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.
I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.
Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.
Mike
It's nice to have you guys finally respond, but I still don't understand why "From Ashes" couldn't be distributed like Zaeed was.
I don't think anyone cares when the content was made, when the game was submitted, whatever, we live in the age of digital distribution, such trifling obstacles are easily overcome (day one patch, free day one DLC only free on day one), all I smell is a fan trying to justify something that is wrong. And actually DLC content a lot of times is actually content cut out from the design due to time constraints, the fact is it never got made, and they sell it later as an addition to the existing game. This is an ethical business practice. An unethical business practice is to have the content made, and finished before the release (it doesn't matter the hell when it was finished, this is still true as I said above, even if it was finished March 5), and sell it as an addon on release day, this is just money grubbing, it is good business, but unethical. Oh and trust me, those that feel as I do, won't pay the $60, remember what sparked all this? Some were boycotting? Remember? Did you even reading the opposing posts in that locked thread?
See this is a sense of entitlement, because in the past companies have been nice enough to give you things that they finished after release for free you now believe that is your right and that not doing so is unethical when in fact it is their right to chose to do so or not and their right to chose to charge you for it or not. They can just as easily give you no option to obtain it at all and only sell you the base game, this is a bad buisness model for them because they lose out on sales of people who would very much like the additional content. The fact that in the past companies including Bioware have chosen to give you day 1 DLC as free content does not make it your right to recieve such content for free. It is not unethical at all, its an example of them deciding they no longer wish to give you things for free that they previously did. That is not an ethical violation, you can argue that it means they no longer care about you and no longer wish to reward you for buying their products by giving you free content but that does not make it unethical or in any way entitle you to it.
I read every post in locked thread and almost every opposing argument is essentialy the same and backed upon the same fallacies based upon either lack of knowledge of how game production works, lack of knowledge on their actual rights a consumer and the rights of the producer, or in this case lack of real knowledge of what constitues unethical business behavior, beyond violations of your personal ethics which is not the same as being an unethical business practice.
Boycotting is perfecty fine its one of your rights as consumers to do so, but you should not expect that simply because you do so you will get something for it. Boycotting is a means to express that you are dis satisfied with a product that a producer has created for some reason or another. It is not a way for you to get something you think you are entitled to for free simply because you boycot their product, and should not be or it would be abused to no end.
I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.
Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.
That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.
I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.
Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.
I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.
Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.
That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.
I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.
Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.
To anyone wondering, I honestly doubt it's an issue of money to most people as much as it's a matter of principle.
Yes, entitlement vs capitalism.
Entitlement thinks most forms of capitalism is wrong. Bioware/EA doing what's best for their buisness is wrong. Capitialism says supply and demand determine prices, and if that supply and demand supports dlc to improve profit margins, they should go ahead and do so.
I can't fault any buisness for wanting to maximize the bottom dollar, as that is their responsibility to their share holders.
I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.
Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.
That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.
I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.
Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.
Mike
No prob take 'er easy Mike looking forward to the DLC.
To anyone wondering, I honestly doubt it's an issue of money to most people as much as it's a matter of principle.
No it's not about money you can easily blow through £60 in a night at the pub or £200 for a meal. I avoided the CE because Bioware failed to deliver with DA2.
The developer is selling a product for what they believe it is worth. If you do not like it, you do not have to buy it. You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to this product.
Isn't that exactly what many people are doing? Canceling the pre-order or saying that they won't buy the game? I know that's what I'm doing. I'd like to think that we're allowed to state the reasons why we're doing what we're doing, and also to tell Bioware how they can win back our money.
i wonder how big would the uproar be if he had remained CE exclusive
Then the uproar wouldn't be about having to spend cash to get it, it would be not even getting the chance to spend the cash for it.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
They're damned because they've done.
I'd be really interested to see the ages/pay level breakdown of people on both sides of the arguement. It's easy to say $10 isn't a big deal when you've got the bank of mum and dad, no morgage etc.
For me, $10 isn't a big deal, hell $100 isn't a big deal (which is fortunate as that's the price of the CE edition here). But it doesn't mean I agree with BioWares current DLC policy.
Calling it a slippery slope falacy is blinkered. There's been a very obvious trend of increasing the level of paid day 0 DLC from BioWare since DA:O. ME3 is the first one which has plot related (not plot centric) DLC which hasn't been free for all preorders. It's a trend, sure people are going to speculate how far it will go, but to pretend it doesn't exist is just stupid. During DA:O's release people were adamant that day 0 plot DLC would always be free, to say otherwise was slippery slope falacy. Now the falacy is reality, the goal post have been moved, and those who were wrong back then, are somehow back to being right.
But it's NOT a reality. Almost ALL the DLC in DA:O were merely items and trinkets (I should know, I've seen them all) which weren't anything special at all. Most of which were only good for a portion of the game before being sold for cheap and easy cash.
DA2 did the same thing. A bunch of free items and aesthetics which had a minimal impact on the game itself.
ME2's DLC consisted almost entirely of weapon and armor packs, MOST of which were either incredibly cheap or completely free.
The goal posts haven't been moved, because the goal hasn't yet been met. The Prothean being DLC doesn't affect the goalposts any more than Shale or Sebastian being DLC affected the goalposts (which is to say, no effect at all)
I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.
Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.
That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.
I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.
Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.
Mike
I don't think anyone is doubting the work ethic of the developers. The argument is about the nature of the work being done.
Can you look me straight in my E-eye and tell me that had you guys not been able to sell this extra content for $10 a pop, it would never have seen the light of day? Can you tell me that it's "extra" in every sense of the word, and that in a world without a DLC system, it would have simply been scrapped (rather than added to the full game free of charge like Zaeed)?
If so, I can't do anything but take you at your word.
Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 23 février 2012 - 07:26 .
I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.
Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.
That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.
I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.
Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.
Mike
It's nice to have you guys finally respond, but I still don't understand why "From Ashes" couldn't be distributed like Zaeed was.
I have a right to demand what ever I want, doesn't mean I'll get anything for it. I'm buying a product, It's like I'm buying a house missing a support beam, it won't make the house fall over, but it would make it safer if that support beam there.
Thats my point exactly you can demand all you want but that is not a reason to expect you will get something from it. Some people are of the mind that because they demand it that should be enough reason alone for it to be provided for them and that is not how things work.
Retour en haut
