247 réponses à ce sujet

[izmirtheastarach]

balancer wrote...

i think it already has been confirmed that tali is a squadmate, their are even some screenshots with her side by side with shepard on the official website

Tali is a squadmate. Bioware has been showing her in screenshots for months, as you say.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 23 février 2012 - 07:37 .

[MegaBadExample]

kleindropper wrote...

I never played ME1 so I hope ME2 matters.

Why would it matter if ME1 never?

[tonnactus]

I remember some threads in the past were some lunatics even though the whole Mass Effect 2 Squad was coming back...

This game was nothing else then a filler.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Oldbones2 wrote...

I'm starting to wonder if Bioware sees the plot and story of ME 2 as one giant gaping pile of **** that they just want to forget about.  It seems like the only thing carrying over to the next game will be the combat system. 

Examples;

1. Suicide mission did nothing to stop the Reapers. 
- At the time, we were assured that stopping the collectors was essential to the safety of the galaxy.  However even with total success, the Reapers arrived at Earth regardless only 6 months later.  If you hadn't performed the mission, the only thing that would have happened is that the Reapers would (maybe) have finished putting together another Reaper in time for the war.

Putting together another Reaper wasn't supposed to be for the war, it's part of the war's objective. They harvest galactic civilization and make Reapers out of viable species. The amount of humans they'd need to process down far exceeds the "tens of thousands" who were vanishing in ME2, so it's likely the Collectors would have simply continued their work using the Reaper invasion to enable them to target larger pockets of humanity... like Earth, for instance.

And beating the Collectors wasn't ever pitched as an important step in actually stopping the Reaper invasion--that was just us assuming things. Really, all the characters in-game no is that oodles of colonists are being abducted, which constitutes a major threat against humanity, and that the Reapers are behind it for some mysterious, undoubtedly nefarious but ultimately unknown reason.

4. Final choice of ME 2 doesn't effect ME 3
- Whether you smash the Collector base or give it to TIM, Cerberus uses it to create hybrid soldiers.
+  This was the biggest choice of the game, like whether or not you saved the council which effected how Humanity was viewed in ME 2.  And yet as far as I can tell, it has almost no impact.p.==

I do believe the Collector Base actually counts as a war asset in the long run, so saving it may actually be helpful after all. But I don't think it's necessarily the base itself that T.I.M. uses to perform that particular procedure; it may even have been something he managed to recreate from the Collector corpses scavanged from Horizon, for all we know.

While there were several thing in ME 2 I found to be inconsistant or irritating, overall I enjoyed the plot, the characters and the whole story.  But as far as I can tell, ME 3 is bending over backward to be ME 1 conpliant while barely paying lip service to ME 2.

Which is of course why all the ME2 characters show up in ME3 for mission roles and why ME2's set-ups with regard to the krogan, quarians, and geth are so bloody important.

ME2's purpose in the overall scheme of things was more to set the stage for ME3 than to act as a crucial step toward actually defeating the Reapers.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 23 février 2012 - 11:36 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

tonnactus wrote...

I remember some threads in the past were some lunatics even though the whole Mass Effect 2 Squad was coming back...

This game was nothing else then a filler.

Not a filler, a transition. Something had to happen during the time that the Reapers took to manually fly to the galaxy, and ME2 takes that timeframe and uses it to set the stage for the actual war:
- Shepard's death, resurrection, and questionable alliance with an untrustworthy organization, developing that organization for its role in the finale
- Establishing that the Reaper threat is being blown off as a conspiracy theory, and thus is not being prepared for despite the advance warning in ME1
- Hints toward the Reapers' objectives in harvesting the galaxy's organic civilizations
- Advancing the long-standing conflicts within the universe, including quarian-geth conflict and the krogans' struggle with the genophage, as well as giving the rift between Citadel space and the Terminus Systems a little development.

It's not as vital, but it serves a similar purpose in the grand scheme of the series that The Empire Strikes Back served for Star Wars. It's a darker second act that serves mainly as a build-up to the finale. Maybe a little less graceful than Star Wars in this regard, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it filler.

[staindgrey]

ME2 was filler. Really, really good filler, but filler. The Collectors trying to make a human Reaper when the Reapers were so close to the system anyway makes no sense; all they did was draw more attention to a threat that the Citadel conveniently already convinced themselves didn't exist.

If ME2 never happened, we wouldn't have missed much in the case of the final confrontation with the Reapers. That doesn't make ME2 a bad game; it was a great game. But in terms of overall narrative, I'm comfortable with saying it's the worst of the three despite not even playing ME3 yet. It had some great character narratives and a lackluster overarching one.

[Nathan Redgrave]

staindgrey wrote...

ME2 was filler. Really, really good filler, but filler. The Collectors trying to make a human Reaper when the Reapers were so close to the system anyway makes no sense; all they did was draw more attention to a threat that the Citadel conveniently already convinced themselves didn't exist.

Mind you: using the Collectors in such a way did provide the Reapers a chance to assess the viability of humans as a Reaper-worthy species, which allowed them to plan in advance as to whether they would target humanity in particular or just lob them onto a pile with the rest of the trash. I imagine this was also part of the purpose behind the Collectors occasionally collecting odd samples from various different species, to analyze them and assess the merits of using them in such a way, among other things.

The Collectors are thus another part of the Reapers' surveillance methods, albeit a more recent one than Sovereign (the Collectors may even have taken over Sovereign's normal role of checking up on galactic civilization and deciding when the cycle was ready to repeat itself, as Vigil very likely didn't know about the Collectors when he told Shepard that this was part of Sovereign's job).

If ME2 never happened, we wouldn't have missed much in the case of the final confrontation with the Reapers. That doesn't make ME2 a bad game; it was a great game. But in terms of overall narrative, I'm comfortable with saying it's the worst of the three despite not even playing ME3 yet. It had some great character narratives and a lackluster overarching one.

I would say similar things about Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, but I wouldn't call it filler--I'd call it an essential set-up act that happened to be bogged down in filler. Which is kind of what ME2 is, really... not filler in itself, but a set-up and transition arc which relies too much on filler to fill its content quota.

[tonnactus]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...


Mind you: using the Collectors in such a way did provide the Reapers a chance to assess the viability of humans as a Reaper-worthy species, which allowed them to plan in advance as to whether they would target humanity in particular or just lob them onto a pile with the rest of the trash. I imagine this was also part of the purpose behind the Collectors occasionally collecting odd samples from various different species, to analyze them and assess the merits of using them in such a way, among other things.

You dont see the antagonism here? I doubt that it was necessary to harvest thousands of humans(and not even special ones) to decide if humans could be used for ascension or not.  Just for research they would just let the mercs the work and find humans that are "odd samples" like with any other race.

I i think the fact the shepardt works for cerberus let the council deny the reaper threat.( not giving away any sensible information/especially the turians should know that the thanix weapon have nothing in common with the weapon of all other geth ships)

Modifié par tonnactus, 23 février 2012 - 12:06 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

tonnactus wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...


Mind you: using the Collectors in such a way did provide the Reapers a chance to assess the viability of humans as a Reaper-worthy species, which allowed them to plan in advance as to whether they would target humanity in particular or just lob them onto a pile with the rest of the trash. I imagine this was also part of the purpose behind the Collectors occasionally collecting odd samples from various different species, to analyze them and assess the merits of using them in such a way, among other things.

You dont see the antagonism here? I doubt that it was necessary to harvest thousands of humans(and not even special ones) to decide if humans could be used for ascension or not.  Just for research they would just let the mercs make some the work and find humans that are "odd samples" like with any other race.

To really confirm viability, seeing how well the first stages of Reaper development work with humans as the base would be preferable, since nothing really beats direct confirmation. Recall; the Reapers actually attempted to create a Prothean Reaper and failed to do so. That they might want the process to go more smoothly this time around isn't far outside the realm of reason. To be fair, they did have the capability to pull this off without compromising their invasion--and would have done, were it not for that meddling dog. I don't think the Reapers could have expected that a derelict Reaper-corpse from the last war would still be around to provide the key to passing through the Omega-4 Relay and assaulting the Collectors directly.

[tonnactus]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...


To really confirm viability, seeing how well the first stages of Reaper development work with humans as the base would be preferable, since nothing really beats direct confirmation.

Reapers are advanced Ais. I am sure a computer simulation would be enough to see if using humans as materials would work.(with the data gained from the collected examples)

Recall; the Reapers actually attempted to create a Prothean Reaper and failed to do so.

And better research/experiments would not have changed that because protheans were the only available race at this time.

But some might ask if reapers could even create krogan/turian hybrids, why they dont just altered prothean dna to match their conditions.

[Nathan Redgrave]

tonnactus wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...


To really confirm viability, seeing how well the first stages of Reaper development work with humans as the base would be preferable, since nothing really beats direct confirmation.

Reapers are advanced Ais. I am sure a computer simulation would be enough to see if using humans as materials would work.(with the data gained from the collected examples)

You know that saying that goes "'assume' makes an *** out of 'u' and 'me'?" I'm guessing an advanced A.I. would understand such a simple concept.

But some might ask if reapers could even create krogan/turian hybrids, why they dont just altered prothean dna to match their conditions.

Possibly because it couldn't be done, or would have somehow defeated the point?

[Capeo]

From reading the leaked script the choices do "matter" per se. How much they truly matter is kind of for you to decide. None of them are monumental in my opinion. TIM does the same thing whether you destroyed the base or saved it. Anyone who died in the SC is replaced by a stand in if their mission is essential. Whether you decided to keep the genophage cure or not you can still cure it. Some things just seem like they are a bit easier depending on your decisions. For instance, it's easier to come to a compromise resolution on the Geth/Quarian conflict based on a couple decisions.

So essentially their effect is there but pretty much everything can be worked around. Prepare for some deaths though. Many in-game ME3 decisions seem to result in the insta-death of some main characters. Past decisions can help avoid this and still get the best conclusion of the mission. That seems to be their biggest overall effect from what I can gather.

Modifié par Capeo, 23 février 2012 - 12:29 .

[Sarah_SR2]

Before I start, I think that Mass Effect 2 is a great game and I have nothing but admiration for it. Well done BioWare for a true modern masterpiece.

Anyway, Shepard didn't really "join" Cerberus during the events of ME2, he/she simply used them to get the job done. There was no loyality from either side - both Shepard and TIM needed each other and they both exploited each other as often as possible in the way that good truce-mates do. I always sensed that Shepard would ditch Cerberus whenever it suited and in ME3 it seems I was correct.

I'll admit that I never really saw the purpose of the Human Reaper other than they had to come up with a final boss of some description. It was the only weakness in the game's plot for me but I obviously missed BioWare's point! However let's not forget that the suicide mission was wholly necessary to stop the Collectors who were abducting entire human colonies - an act of war in anyone's book in my opinion. And remember, the Harbinger Collector was actually an avatar of a Reaper called Harbinger so in that respect you were always up against him with the entire story line of ME2 about discovering who and what the Reapers are, what they want and where they come from etc. For me, the story was great (although not perfect) and filled in a bucketload of information leading into ME3, including the Krogan genophage, the Geth heretics and the fate of the Protheans to name just a few. Without doubt, the story is well fleshed out and the Reapers would have been far stronger in ME3 with the Collectors at their side than they would be (will be?) without them.

The squad? Well correct me if I'm wrong but Garrus is along for the ride in ME3 and so is Tali. I also believe that Joker is onec again going to be doing the old flying thing, and don't forget EDI, she's back too.

As for the end game choice, we'll only find out the real implications of our actions once we play ME3. I'm not going to start second-guessing what the game has in store. I'm just going to play it and enjoy it for what it is. Hopefully another masterpiece...

[The Spamming Troll]

i think by game 3 itd be a good idea to start showing some consequences tho, dont ya think???

[Planeforger]

Sarah_SR2 wrote...
And remember, the Harbinger Collector was actually an avatar of a Reaper called Harbinger so in that respect you were always up against him with the entire story line of ME2 about discovering who and what the Reapers are, what they want and where they come from etc. For me, the story was great (although not perfect) and filled in a bucketload of information leading into ME3, including the Krogan genophage, the Geth heretics and the fate of the Protheans to name just a few. Without doubt, the story is well fleshed out and the Reapers would have been far stronger in ME3 with the Collectors at their side than they would be (will be?) without them.

The squad? Well correct me if I'm wrong but Garrus is along for the ride in ME3 and so is Tali. I also believe that Joker is onec again going to be doing the old flying thing, and don't forget EDI, she's back too.

To be fair though, we learned nothing about Harbinger, nothing about who and what the Reapers are, nor where they cme from or what they want.

We also learnt nothing particularly new about the Genophage (the possible cure could've been introduced in ME3 without Mordin's sidequest), and the fates of the Geth and Protheans felt more like silly retcons than meaningful plot developments. Not to mention that it cheapened both of those races, making them indoctrinated slaves like all of the other major villains so far (seriously Bioware, brainwashed villains aren't as fun as villains with proper motives - please don't re-use the brainwashing plot device again in ME3).

And honestly, I don't think the Reapers needed the Collectors. At all. Those guys take out races as advanced as the Protheans with regular ease. They should have no problems taking out the pitiful sentient races as they were at the end of ME3 (unless they all suddenly get awesome technology between games).

As for the squad...those guys were in ME1, too. Their presence in ME2 didn't add much to the story - in the same way that nothing much at all in ME2 added to the story. Oh, it introduced Tim, but that's about all...

...but don't get me wrong, I enjoyed ME2.

[MrAnthonyDraft]

My only gripe is that there is no choice in who can be your squad mate.

Example, if I romanced Ash in ME1, but then romanced Miranda in ME2, I'd like to see what would've happened if I let those 2 in my squad.

I really do hope there is a decision on who we can use as a permanent squad mate or not. If not, it won't be the condition of cancelling my pre-order, it would be just a partial disappointment, but that's just my opinion.

PS. And no, I can't cope with the fact that most squadmates in ME2 will only appear as cameos, but I'll see what BioWare has done with them, and then decide if it was a bad decision or not. I do understand that the story arc would overlap and it would be very annoying to get them sorted out.

[AquamanOS]

I don't think they're ashamed parsay, but I believe that the bulk of the main ME2 was "filler" so to speak.

ME2's true purpose seemed to be to broaden the overall ME universe. In ME1 you only really see the Citadel and a bunch of human colonies. In ME2 you get to see the Quarian fleet, and Tuchanka first hand. You get to see more varied locations like Omega, and Illium. You learn more about the the various races. You get to see what Cerberus is like beyond a bunch of generic goons. All this is build up to the plot of ME3.

But the Suicide Mission? That was just to allow the game to have an epic showdown and give you direct antagonists. To sell it to the people who like action. In fact just to sell it in general as "explore the galaxy and learn about stuff, while you wait for us to finish working on ME3" isn't going to sell alot of copies. But in the grand scheme of things it really isn't going to matter much to the actual war.

Now ME3 picks up from where ME1 left off. The Reapers are coming and it's time to fight them off. It will use much of the info about races were learned of in ME2 yes, but it isn't directly releated to the ME2 story.

[tsk16]

Why don't people wait until the game is actually out before making all these assumptions about plot and story for ME3?

[sheppard7]

Is there anything somewhere the tells us how the SR-2 is an Alliance ship? Built by Cerebus as pointed out more than once in ME2. I'd just want a yes or no if it's explained in game and some of you read some leaks and such. lol

[izmirtheastarach]

sheppard7 wrote...

Is there anything somewhere the tells us how the SR-2 is an Alliance ship? Built by Cerebus as pointed out more than once in ME2. I'd just want a yes or no if it's explained in game and some of you read some leaks and such. lol

It is likely explained at some point. But most of what is going on in the intro is left you to figure out.

[Oldbones2]

Okay, let me rephrase my original statement.

If ME 2 hadn't happened. Would ME 3 have any major differences?

- Some, maybe all of the human colonies in the Terminus systems would be gone, maybe a few in the Attican traverse as well.
- We would STILL have Garrus and Tali and the new ME 3 squad who were all in ME 1 and loyal, plus the new guys.
- We'd still work for the Alliance.
- Cerberus would still be an antagonist.
- Wrex would still make his cameo or not depending on Virmire.

Things that change;

+ Cerberus base becomes a war asset. We've got lots of those AND you can stop up the gaps with MP.
+ Characters that aren't Garrus and Tali and were in the squad from ME 1 are in the game in cameo appearances. However these are completely replaceable and anyone who didn't play ME 2 won't miss out.
+ ME 2 exclusive weapons such as the Mattock... oh wait that's freely available to EVERYONE in ME 3.
+ Small side mission changes.
+ It's possible to 'cheat' on your ME 1 romance. Yet I and others have noticed that the ME 2 romances have a distinct fling feel.

I'm going to play ME 3. I'm going to love it. I don't expect Bioware to 'fix' things two weeks before the game is released.
I didn't write this thread because I hate ME 2 or Bioware. I love them both like family, which is why it is so hard to see my time and money thrown away for no reason. I just want to know why is it that ME 2 has no consequence to the greater story?

[izmirtheastarach]

Oldbones2 wrote...

Okay, let me rephrase my original statement.

If ME 2 hadn't happened. Would ME 3 have any major differences?

- Some, maybe all of the human colonies in the Terminus systems would be gone, maybe a few in the Attican traverse as well.
- We would STILL have Garrus and Tali and the new ME 3 squad who were all in ME 1 and loyal, plus the new guys.
- We'd still work for the Alliance.
- Cerberus would still be an antagonist.
- Wrex would still make his cameo or not depending on Virmire.

I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying the events of ME2 take place without Shepard's involvement? Wouldn't Garrus & Tali both likely be dead?

[Capeo]

tsk16 wrote...

Why don't people wait until the game is actually out before making all these assumptions about plot and story for ME3?

Well, for one, the story is already out there so some us aren't making assumptions.

[glacier1701]

 I dont think that BioWare is ashamed of ME2 though they should be. On a plot level it introduced 2 huge gaping flaws in the whole basis of what is going on in the ME universe. On a storyline level within ME2 it showed absolutely no thought as why 1 ship would be thought capable of being able to take on a whole advanced spacefaring species. Even worse it turned out that this 'species' was confined to one ship and a small base even though there was no foreshadowing of that!!! Anyways thoughts on this have been throughly explored in the ME2 forums.

 So in short BW is not ashamed of ME2.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

Okay, let me rephrase my original statement.

If ME 2 hadn't happened. Would ME 3 have any major differences?

- Some, maybe all of the human colonies in the Terminus systems would be gone, maybe a few in the Attican traverse as well.
- We would STILL have Garrus and Tali and the new ME 3 squad who were all in ME 1 and loyal, plus the new guys.
- We'd still work for the Alliance.
- Cerberus would still be an antagonist.
- Wrex would still make his cameo or not depending on Virmire.

I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying the events of ME2 take place without Shepard's involvement? Wouldn't Garrus & Tali both likely be dead?

I am guessing his argument is that if Shepard hadn't have 'died' they would still be part of his crew and thus Garrus wouldn't have gone off to Omega and Tali wouldn't have gone back to the Migrant Fleet.

Except he fails to miss one point, Tali would have, she was only on the Normandy on her Pilgrimage, you can be real mean with her in ME by not giving her the geth data and she states that once the issue with Saren is dealt with she'll leave. So she'd still end up on Freedom's Progress and either died there or on Haestrom.

Garrus... well you can actually go through ME without recruiting him, just as you can Wrex (although you have to have at least one of them). So Garrus technically would still end up on Omega and without Shepard's help would have ended up dead.