247 réponses à ce sujet

[Naqey]

to get back on topic:
You cant deny that the mainplot in me2 is so thin, it could have easily been done in a bigger dlc or very small addon. 90% of the games revolves around recruiting a squad and then earning the trust of the squadmembers. The fact that all of those squadmembers (except for tali and garrus) don´t play any major role in me3, its just very bad game design / storywriting in my opinion (note the "in my opinion"!). I mean, mass effect was plant as a trilogy, and still the second part feels so much like a "filler". The whole concept of the suicide mission (as good as it might seem), ruined the chance of any of the me2 squadmembers playing a major role in me3. To me that proves some sort of laziness on Biowares part. It´s like "It´s in your hand to decide who lives and who dies, but, oh well, it doesnt really matter at all"
my point is, they knew they were going to make a trilogy, yet they made so many bad desicions concerning the middle part

[Naqey]

mauro2222 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I mean, how the hell do they all know that these spoilers are even true? How do ANY
of them know that the script is final.

They wouldn't know unless Someone from BioWare told them! What if we are wrong?!

How the hell are they sure that the sources are reliable? Did BioWare go to their doorstep handing them the info, or did BioWare serve it to them on a silver platter online?

Avoid the forum, I cannot give you another advice.

If Miri results to be a manipulative-icequeen-Cerberuscheerleader, I'd be glad, because she was supposed to be the loyalist, not the "Oh Shepard I love you, I follow all your ideals".

Her sex scene is a pretty indicative of this. So you have been warned.

Have you actually played (or at least seen) the me2 ending with a romanced miranda? I guess not

[mauro2222]

Naqey wrote...

Have you actually played (or at least seen) the me2 ending with a romanced miranda? I guess not

As MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 said, she quits. I know that. And that is BS.

Read again "because she was supposed to be the loyalist, not the "Oh Shepard I love you, I follow all your ideals".

That's why I consider her character to be weak.

Her sex scene was a move to make Shepard the submissive one, and that is why she had sex with him in the Engine Room in front of everyone and with she on top.

Modifié par mauro2222, 24 février 2012 - 04:21 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Naqey wrote...

to get back on topic:
You cant deny that the mainplot in me2 is so thin, it could have easily been done in a bigger dlc or very small addon. 90% of the games revolves around recruiting a squad and then earning the trust of the squadmembers. The fact that all of those squadmembers (except for tali and garrus) don´t play any major role in me3, its just very bad game design / storywriting in my opinion (note the "in my opinion"!). I mean, mass effect was plant as a trilogy, and still the second part feels so much like a "filler". The whole concept of the suicide mission (as good as it might seem), ruined the chance of any of the me2 squadmembers playing a major role in me3. To me that proves some sort of laziness on Biowares part. It´s like "It´s in your hand to decide who lives and who dies, but, oh well, it doesnt really matter at all"
my point is, they knew they were going to make a trilogy, yet they made so many bad desicions concerning the middle part

The reason none of them play a big role in ME3 is because "They can die". Never mind that it's easier to have everyone survive, than have everyone die (Or even kill only 1 or 2 people). Needless to say, team dextro bypassed this whole "logic".

And it's really tough to make a 2nd part in a trilogy be 100% adherant to the main overarching story with a filling conclusion, because it would negate or downplay the 3rd entry.

[jeinasindorei]

mauro2222 wrote...

Naqey wrote...

Have you actually played (or at least seen) the me2 ending with a romanced miranda? I guess not

As MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 said, she quits. I know that. And that is BS.

Read again "because she was supposed to be the loyalist, not the "Oh Shepard I love you, I follow all your ideals".

That's why I consider her character to be weak.

Her sex scene was a move to make Shepard the submissive one, and that is why she had sex with him in the Engine Room in front of everyone and with she on top.

Pretty sure they were alone.

[Naqey]

mauro2222 wrote...

Naqey wrote...

Have you actually played (or at least seen) the me2 ending with a romanced miranda? I guess not

As MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 said, she quits. I know that. And that is BS.

Read again "because she was supposed to be the loyalist, not the "Oh Shepard I love you, I follow all your ideals".

That's why I consider her character to be weak.

so what you´re saying is, you can actually influence (or "fix") people like garrus, tali, jack or EDI for that matter (an AI designed by cerberus), but when it comes to miranda, the first impression you get of her must be 100% true? Isn´t Bioware big on the "people can change" thing (in all of their games, bg, nwn, da, kotor all alike)? Why should Miranda be any different than that? I mean sure, you could be right, but I really hope you´re not

Modifié par Naqey, 24 février 2012 - 04:33 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Naqey wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Naqey wrote...

Have you actually played (or at least seen) the me2 ending with a romanced miranda? I guess not

As MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 said, she quits. I know that. And that is BS.

Read again "because she was supposed to be the loyalist, not the "Oh Shepard I love you, I follow all your ideals".

That's why I consider her character to be weak.

so what you´re saying is, you can actually influence (or "fix") people like garrus, tali, jack or EDI for that matter (an AI designed by cerberus), but when it comes to miranda, the first impression you get of her must be 100% true? Isn´t Bioware big on the "people can change" thing (in all of their games, bg, nwn, de, kotor all alike)? Why should Miranda be any different than that? I mean sure, you could be right, but I really hope you´re not

Funny enough, Miranda does change. Especially so during the romance.

It takes all of 6 seconds of listening to her talk during conversations to notice it.

[mauro2222]

jeinasindorei wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Naqey wrote...

Have you actually played (or at least seen) the me2 ending with a romanced miranda? I guess not

As MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 said, she quits. I know that. And that is BS.

Read again "because she was supposed to be the loyalist, not the "Oh Shepard I love you, I follow all your ideals".

That's why I consider her character to be weak.

Her sex scene was a move to make Shepard the submissive one, and that is why she had sex with him in the Engine Room in front of everyone and with she on top.

Pretty sure they were alone.

.... Half of the Normandy windows have view to the core.

[izmirtheastarach]

jeinasindorei wrote...
Pretty sure they were alone.

Yeah. It's not in front of anyone. She clears the deck first.

mauro2222 wrote...
.... Half of the Normandy windows have view to the core.

Hah. Never thought of that.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 24 février 2012 - 04:33 .

[mauro2222]

Naqey wrote...

so what you´re saying is, you can actually influence (or "fix") people like garrus, tali, jack or EDI for that matter (an AI designed by cerberus), but when it comes to miranda, the first impression you get of her must be 100% true? Isn´t Bioware big on the "people can change" thing (in all of their games, bg, nwn, de, kotor all alike)? Why should Miranda be any different than that? I mean sure, you could be right, but I really hope you´re not

Garrus... hard to tell, Tali still views the Geth as killing machines, Jack is the same she just trust you, and EDI was never made to be Cerberus, she was made to be the Normandy.

But Miranda does not just trust you, she changes all about her for a simple "You are more than a genetic modification"

[jeinasindorei]

mauro2222 wrote...

jeinasindorei wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Naqey wrote...

Have you actually played (or at least seen) the me2 ending with a romanced miranda? I guess not

As MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 said, she quits. I know that. And that is BS.

Read again "because she was supposed to be the loyalist, not the "Oh Shepard I love you, I follow all your ideals".

That's why I consider her character to be weak.

Her sex scene was a move to make Shepard the submissive one, and that is why she had sex with him in the Engine Room in front of everyone and with she on top.

Pretty sure they were alone.

.... Half of the Normandy windows have view to the core.

Yea, but the crew was all getting ready to become Reaper Paste so there weren't that many people to watch.

[AgitatedLemon]

mauro2222 wrote...

But Miranda does not just trust you, she changes all about her for a simple "You are more than a genetic modification"

wut?

Shepard becomes one of the very few people Miranda implicitly trusts. If you think the above is all she changes over, then I implore you do the romance again.

Legitimate reasons tend to lend credibility to not liking something.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri's Story is better than that, come on!

[mauro2222]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

But Miranda does not just trust you, she changes all about her for a simple "You are more than a genetic modification"

wut?

Shepard becomes one of the very few people Miranda implicitly trusts. If you think the above is all she changes over, then I implore you do the romance again.

Legitimate reasons tend to lend credibility to not liking something.

Errrr.... what?

"Shepard becomes one of the very few people Miranda implicitly trusts." I said that.

"If you think the above is all she changes over, then I implore you do the romance again." She suffers a complete transformation.

[mauro2222]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Miri's Story is better than that, come on!

Her story is not bad, the quitting part is.

Modifié par mauro2222, 24 février 2012 - 04:44 .

[AgitatedLemon]

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

But Miranda does not just trust you, she changes all about her for a simple "You are more than a genetic modification"

wut?

Shepard becomes one of the very few people Miranda implicitly trusts. If you think the above is all she changes over, then I implore you do the romance again.

Legitimate reasons tend to lend credibility to not liking something.

Errrr.... what?

"Shepard becomes one of the very few people Miranda implicitly trusts." I said that.

"If you think the above is all she changes over, then I implore you do the romance again." She suffers a complete transformation.

Disregard the first part of my post, I thought you said something else. I read you wrong.

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

mauro2222 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Miri's Story is better than that, come on!

Her story is not bad, the quitting part is.

No it's not. I guess I believe what I believe becuase of the way I play. I for one enjoy seeing Miri telling TIM off and quitting Cerberus. I also blow the Collector Base to Hell.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 février 2012 - 04:51 .

[Naqey]

mauro2222 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Miri's Story is better than that, come on!

Her story is not bad, the quitting part is.

well I hope we can agree on the fact that miranda obviously suffers from severe daddy issues.
and you could argue that those daddy issues were the main reason she became so cold and joined cerberus with TIM being somewhat of her new father figure (not the whole pro human / anti alien / all live must be cleansed by the reapers because they say so part)
so essentially what shepard did in me2,  was "curing" her in some freudian way and now she doesnt really net TIM anymore (so no cerberus too!).
at least that was what I was thinking during the events of me2, so the quitting part worked just fine for me.

[mauro2222]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.

And I like that, but her ideals are the ones deformed. She was "The loyalist", but Shepardluvv also changed that.

[mauro2222]

Relax folks, its just my opinion on how to make her character stronger (at least in the Cerberus matter), is not a fact.

Modifié par mauro2222, 24 février 2012 - 04:58 .

[AgitatedLemon]

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.

And I like that, but her ideals are the ones deformed. She was "The loyalist", but Shepardluvv also changed that.

"The loyalist" doesn't imply "She follows everything they say, no questions". 

She defends TIM after TIM sends Shepard and co. into the Collector ship.

She doesn't outright defy TIM until the last 3 minutes of the game. Up until that point, the most she had done to express wavering loyalty was ask a couple "what if?" questions.

[Xeranx]

Doesn't Miranda's resignation from Cerberus happen due to Shepard choosing to blow up the base and not because she was sexed up by Shepard?

[AgitatedLemon]

Xeranx wrote...

Doesn't Miranda's resignation from Cerberus happen due to Shepard choosing to blow up the base and not because she was sexed up by Shepard?

Technically, she quits regardless. She just does it in ME2 if you blow the base.

[DarkSpiral]

Xeranx wrote...

Doesn't Miranda's resignation from Cerberus happen due to Shepard choosing to blow up the base and not because she was sexed up by Shepard?

Yes.  I've never once romanced Miranada.  But every time she was on the squad when I blew the Collector base apart, she tells T.I.M off and quits Cerberus.  I must admit, however, that it did somewehat come out of left field.  Sure, Shepard impresses her with his competance, and her self-image improves during the course of the dialogues, but I didn't see any sign of her convictions that Cerberus was a totally necessary part of the future of humanity in the galaxy wavering, until that very moment.