Aller au contenu

Photo

Is Bioware ashamed of ME 2? ---Spoilers---


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
247 réponses à ce sujet

#176
Butthead11

Butthead11
  • Members
  • 540 messages

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.


And I like that, but her ideals are the ones deformed. She was "The loyalist", but Shepardluvv also changed that.


So you're saying her story is bad because she is nicknamed the loyalist in mass effect media, but was only a loyalist for 99% of the game in reality? 

#177
AgitatedLemon

AgitatedLemon
  • Members
  • 6 294 messages

Butthead11 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.


And I like that, but her ideals are the ones deformed. She was "The loyalist", but Shepardluvv also changed that.


So you're saying her story is bad because she is nicknamed the loyalist in mass effect media, but was only a loyalist for 99% of the game in reality? 


Not to mention that her resignation from Cerberus has nothing to do with "Shepardluvv".

#178
mauro2222

mauro2222
  • Members
  • 4 236 messages

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Butthead11 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.


And I like that, but her ideals are the ones deformed. She was "The loyalist", but Shepardluvv also changed that.



So you're saying her story is bad because she is nicknamed the loyalist in mass effect media, but was only a loyalist for 99% of the game in reality? 


Not to mention that her resignation from Cerberus has nothing to do with "Shepardluvv".


Shepardluvv is not romance [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png[/smilie]

#179
mauro2222

mauro2222
  • Members
  • 4 236 messages

Butthead11 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.


And I like that, but her ideals are the ones deformed. She was "The loyalist", but Shepardluvv also changed that.


So you're saying her story is bad because she is nicknamed the loyalist in mass effect media, but was only a loyalist for 99% of the game in reality? 


Yeah, absolutly that... <_<

#180
AgitatedLemon

AgitatedLemon
  • Members
  • 6 294 messages

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Butthead11 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

She doesn't do a complete transformation. She retains her initial professionalism and determination. She just shows a lot more emotion to Shepard now, because of the trust. The only "disappearing" quality is her icy exterior, which she wouldn't show anyway because Shepard and her are close.


And I like that, but her ideals are the ones deformed. She was "The loyalist", but Shepardluvv also changed that.



So you're saying her story is bad because she is nicknamed the loyalist in mass effect media, but was only a loyalist for 99% of the game in reality? 


Not to mention that her resignation from Cerberus has nothing to do with "Shepardluvv".


Shepardluvv is not romance [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png[/smilie]


What are you getting at then?

She doesn't "luvv" Shepard outside the Romance.

#181
tonnactus

tonnactus
  • Members
  • 6 165 messages

scotkrow wrote...

I would like to point out that:
1. The Collectors were taking humans from Terminus Systems Colonies. So, the Council and Alliance care less about them in general, thus their activities were going largely ignored. So, they were starting the Reaper, that would be finished once the reapers arrived.


Wrong. The "material" in the terminus systems wasnt enough and squadmates even stated:"They go after earth".

So explain how this one collector frigate,that is even defeated by an unupgraded normandy, could manage this. Its impossible.The alliance fleet would tear it appart.

#182
AgitatedLemon

AgitatedLemon
  • Members
  • 6 294 messages
A fully un-upgraded Normandy should not have been able to take the Collector ship, imo. The only "advantage" it had over the thing to begin with was the Javelin missiles, of which it only had a small number. Realistically, the battle would have opened the same way as ME1 did. But as we all know, Shepard must win, so down goes the Collector ship.

#183
KotorEffect3

KotorEffect3
  • Members
  • 9 415 messages
Considering that is one of their most successful and highest rated games ever, I don't see why they would be ashamed of ME 2. I am sure they are very proud of it and for good reason.

#184
tonnactus

tonnactus
  • Members
  • 6 165 messages

AgitatedLemon wrote...


She says in ME1 that she's "little more than a child".




She is viewed as as little more then a child by elder asari,what is understandable regarding how long asari live.
But i dont know teenagers with a phd and centuries of experience in field research....

#185
RVallant

RVallant
  • Members
  • 612 messages

AgitatedLemon wrote...

A fully un-upgraded Normandy should not have been able to take the Collector ship, imo. The only "advantage" it had over the thing to begin with was the Javelin missiles, of which it only had a small number. Realistically, the battle would have opened the same way as ME1 did. But as we all know, Shepard must win, so down goes the Collector ship.


It's prepared the second time around though. And facing the right bloody way.

It's amazing how quick a battle ends when you're flicking from stealth to combat mode, dodging a shot up the butt which, conveniently blows one of the ME engine cells at the back that leaves you completely in the **** for simple pot shots across the bow.

The second fight was much more equal in terms of circumstances rather than anything else if nothing was upgraded and was a total mis-match if everything was. >.>

#186
AgitatedLemon

AgitatedLemon
  • Members
  • 6 294 messages

RVallant wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

A fully un-upgraded Normandy should not have been able to take the Collector ship, imo. The only "advantage" it had over the thing to begin with was the Javelin missiles, of which it only had a small number. Realistically, the battle would have opened the same way as ME1 did. But as we all know, Shepard must win, so down goes the Collector ship.


It's prepared the second time around though. And facing the right bloody way.

It's amazing how quick a battle ends when you're flicking from stealth to combat mode, dodging a shot up the butt which, conveniently blows one of the ME engine cells at the back that leaves you completely in the **** for simple pot shots across the bow.

The second fight was much more equal in terms of circumstances rather than anything else if nothing was upgraded and was a total mis-match if everything was. >.>


I'm still going to go ahead and say the Normandy shouldn't have won as fast as it had with no upgrades, especially considering how Tali, Garrus, and Jacob are all ominous in their chat with Shepard regarding the ship upgrades.

#187
tonnactus

tonnactus
  • Members
  • 6 165 messages

Naqey wrote...

so what you´re saying is, you can actually influence (or "fix") people like garrus, tali, jack or EDI for that matter (an AI designed by cerberus), but when it comes to miranda, the first impression you get of her must be 100% true? Isn´t Bioware big on the "people can change" thing


This change happened regardless of what shepardt did. Even if she is unloyal(if the player never did the personal mission or side with jack) she resigns regardless.
There was zero confrontation with the so called loyalist at the end if shepardt decide to blow up the base.


Compare that how wrex acted in virmire regarding his people. Shepardt actually needed to convince him.

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 février 2012 - 10:46 .


#188
scotkrow

scotkrow
  • Members
  • 224 messages
For the people arguing collectors on earth: they still had a lot of terminus colonies to go through, and the reapers arrived 6 months later, they woulda hit earth with the reapers to collect humans.

For Miranda arguers: She's 'The Loyalist' and if you gain her loyalty by being the natural born leader you are.

And Mass Effect 2 broadens the galaxy, it feeds information you didn't get in Mass Effect 1 and wont have time for in Mass Effect 3, what with this big galactic war going on, you learn more about things mentioned in ME1 and you learn new things that are far more fleshed out that the things you learned in ME1. All of this is the base knowledge you need going into ME3 in order to understand all the nuances that will help you in the war. It's more than filler, it's more than the road from point a to point b, it's that amazing place you stumble upon between point a and b and decide to call it 'Super Amazing Road Stop 1 of Awesomeness'.

#189
scotkrow

scotkrow
  • Members
  • 224 messages

Xeranx wrote...

scotkrow wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

I'm giving you the option to think about it and see what happens.  Though seeing as I'm practically steering you with that statement, you might not want to generalize about anyone else in the future.


You're not doing anything but typing a four letter word that I looked up and only found the urban dictinoary deffinition that makes no sense and an Afghan school and names.  None of those have anything related to my statement.


In addition, generalization is a part of human nature, it's a common speach pattern and even people who are thinking might miss, because they think too fast, or think over and aroud it, and other people who think enough will 'read' between the lines and see that a generalization a person is making is not 100%.  And since you brought it up I'll say this time that only most people who think enough will realize that.


Rana is a character in the story of Mass Effect.  I gave you her name to think about her character and tell me whatever you thought regarding her character.  Why?  Because there's a lot there that has potential for the trilogy if the developers had used it.

I don't ME2 is good filler.  It's about as tangible to me as air for whatever it is supposed to accomplish.  The developers went for an ESB-type story which doesn't resemble ESB from what I can remember.  They chased some ideal instead of focusing on the story that was hinted at the end of Mass Effect.  Also, in ESB (from what I remember...haven't watched it in years) the Empire was still a very real threat.  They weren't absent.  Everything done by Luke was in preparation for taking on Vader.  Han and Leia were growing closer, but they still had their respective roles to play as part of the Rebellion.  What about that correlates to what we see in ME2?  

We focus on the Collectors who don't amount to much by the end of ME2.  We have characters that are veritable throwaways and the hackneyed way they're introduced for the purpose of exposition is poor as far as I'm concerned.  All of that could have been reworked with the focus on the overarching story which entailed finding ways to stop the Reapers.  Then the Collectors, themselves, could have been fleshed out more.  As they exist they're puppets.  It's nothing we haven't seen before considering the Keepers, but they were initially introduced as traders who then began abducting people.  That the connection was made to the Reapers, I don't know how that happened.  That connection should have come later and not once we regained control of Shepard.

Rana studied indoctrination at Saren's request.  Or, more precisely, she took over her superior's position at Saren's command to study indoctrination.  Then we have Exogeni research on the Thorian and, for those that saved her, Shiala who was rendered cured of indoctrination due to the Thorian.  Add in Mordin and we could have had those characters working towards a method of stopping the Reapers.  At the very least, if we were going to think about adopting Reaper tech to try anything (SR2 and EDI), we could potentially avoid what happened to Dr. Chandanah and his group on the Derelict Reaper.

Cerberus could have been introduced as a viable option for the research to take place under their umbrella if there were something about the research that the Council wanted nothing to do with.

So many things could have been done to make the overarching story more solid and more enjoyable for those who don't think that ME2 makes the total story incohesive as far as the trilogy currently exists.  I don't want to be told that Mass Effect is a trilogy if everything that occurs in ME2 needs ME3 to shore it up.  If ME3 needs to validate ME2 that makes ME3 ME2.5  as far as I'm concerned.

As far as my 'not doing anything' is concerned, I quoted a section of your post that involved four points if I'm not mistaken.  Four points and I selected just one, but you didn't figure out what I was trying to get at.  I didn't want to spell it out because the tone in the section I quoted was enough for me to think you thought yourself better than those who "don't appreciate" ME2 like you do.  And had you not seemingly lumped us in with those who 'don't want to think too hard' I wouldn't have said anything.

That's why I'm telling you not to generalize.  Regardless of what "people" do, you do have control of yourself.  Don't hide behind what "people" do if, in the liklihood of someone saying something that - to you -seems to speak for you, you will tell that person to speak for themselves.


I was just playing 2 and came across Rana when I was getting Grunt, I had always thought of her by her last name Thanoptis.  She's going to make an appearance in ME3 for sure, but she's more like a side character, he's like Lando's Admin assustant in ESB.

And it's not a story comparison from ESB and ME2, it's a purpose comparison. 
And if you do want a story comparison.  The reapers are the threat, like the empire, and they are present in the collectors.  you don't know the collectors are reaper puppets until you see the husks on horizan, and that's the 1/3 way mark in the game, you're dealing with the collectors as your "payment" for cerberus bringing you back, and they are targeting humans, shepard views their responsibility to be humans/all life in the galaxy.  Also shepard has no leads on the reapers, and going after the collectors is a good way to travel and look for leads on the reapers, because other than that there's no way to really hunt them, you have to wait for them to come to you, so you just have to find evidence that they exist so that everyone else will believe you and start preparing.

#190
BatmanPWNS

BatmanPWNS
  • Members
  • 6 392 messages
Ashamed? Na, they're too busy swimming in all the money it made and bargging about all the GOTY it won.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 24 février 2012 - 05:46 .


#191
riveraeg

riveraeg
  • Members
  • 34 messages
I disagree that the game is a filler for several reasons.

First, in ME2 Shepard is more involved in the universe. The back story of several characters like Mordin is really important. Saying that is filler is like also saying Virmirre is filler. Unless we see the finish product we can't really tell what is important.

Second, in ME2 we did learn more about the Prothians Fate and the possible future for Humanity. We also learned that the Cidatel and the Mass Effect relays were not created by them. Also that the reapers keep a race to work for them.

Third, the collector base for me seemed to stop the invasion and cut enemy forces down. The base was building husk that were going to be used against the rest of the galaxy. Hence ME2 is important that it might be the universe a fighting chance against the Reapers.

#192
Prom001

Prom001
  • Members
  • 401 messages
ashamed?

No, I would say the game wasnt about stoping the reapers, it was about stoping the attacks on human colonies.
Or as Harbinger said at the end:"Human you have achieve nothing."

Arrival is no different.

Which is the point of it.

#193
frylock23

frylock23
  • Members
  • 3 037 messages

riveraeg wrote...

I disagree that the game is a filler for several reasons.

First, in ME2 Shepard is more involved in the universe. The back story of several characters like Mordin is really important. Saying that is filler is like also saying Virmirre is filler. Unless we see the finish product we can't really tell what is important.

Second, in ME2 we did learn more about the Prothians Fate and the possible future for Humanity. We also learned that the Cidatel and the Mass Effect relays were not created by them. Also that the reapers keep a race to work for them.

Third, the collector base for me seemed to stop the invasion and cut enemy forces down. The base was building husk that were going to be used against the rest of the galaxy. Hence ME2 is important that it might be the universe a fighting chance against the Reapers.


Yeah, we learned these things, but wouldn't they have been more effective or just as effective if they had been DLCs or EPs? Instead, it kind of felt like BioWare cobbled a bunch of these important (admittedly so) plot points into abundle and slapped a so-called storyline thread through them (Collectors and Termy-Reaps) to try to make them seem like a cohesive whole instead of the short story collection they actually were.

If I needed to play through the rising tensions between the Geth and the Quarians, that's fine, but make it an expansion pack/DLC to ME1 rather than a series of character and loyalty missions shoehorned around this other storyline mission that I'm really supposed to be placing as my top priority. The same thing could be said about Mordin/Grunt and the Genophage. Did we really need Grunt while we were at it? If we needed to elucidate the fate of the Protheans and introduce the Collectors and the Reapers plan to make a Termy-Reaps, then we can make a different pack. But did they all have to be shoehorned into one game together in such a way that we are told that they all somehow "go" together? Because I don't think they necessarily did or needed to.

#194
Pappi

Pappi
  • Members
  • 456 messages
Why would they be ashamed, ME2 is a great game--with the squadmates, they may not be in the party but a lot of them appear in the game. If Mordin is the ships doctor, I will cry tears of happiness.

#195
scotkrow

scotkrow
  • Members
  • 224 messages

frylock23 wrote...

riveraeg wrote...

I disagree that the game is a filler for several reasons.

First, in ME2 Shepard is more involved in the universe. The back story of several characters like Mordin is really important. Saying that is filler is like also saying Virmirre is filler. Unless we see the finish product we can't really tell what is important.

Second, in ME2 we did learn more about the Prothians Fate and the possible future for Humanity. We also learned that the Cidatel and the Mass Effect relays were not created by them. Also that the reapers keep a race to work for them.

Third, the collector base for me seemed to stop the invasion and cut enemy forces down. The base was building husk that were going to be used against the rest of the galaxy. Hence ME2 is important that it might be the universe a fighting chance against the Reapers.


Yeah, we learned these things, but wouldn't they have been more effective or just as effective if they had been DLCs or EPs? Instead, it kind of felt like BioWare cobbled a bunch of these important (admittedly so) plot points into abundle and slapped a so-called storyline thread through them (Collectors and Termy-Reaps) to try to make them seem like a cohesive whole instead of the short story collection they actually were.

If I needed to play through the rising tensions between the Geth and the Quarians, that's fine, but make it an expansion pack/DLC to ME1 rather than a series of character and loyalty missions shoehorned around this other storyline mission that I'm really supposed to be placing as my top priority. The same thing could be said about Mordin/Grunt and the Genophage. Did we really need Grunt while we were at it? If we needed to elucidate the fate of the Protheans and introduce the Collectors and the Reapers plan to make a Termy-Reaps, then we can make a different pack. But did they all have to be shoehorned into one game together in such a way that we are told that they all somehow "go" together? Because I don't think they necessarily did or needed to.


It's way to much material to be in expansion packs or dlc.  And I personally preffer the combat system, and I think the half way point between ME1 and ME2 they have in 3 in terms of weapons and leveling up will be perfect.  I don't think ME2 is any less of an RPG than ME1, because you're still roleplaying a character, even if there's not as much customization and such, you're making choices and such.  And there's so much content in ME2 that it'd take so many expansion packs and dlcs for ME1 that it'd cost way more than a new game to buy them all.

#196
spyro396

spyro396
  • Members
  • 296 messages
Probobly

#197
tonnactus

tonnactus
  • Members
  • 6 165 messages

riveraeg wrote...

First, in ME2 Shepard is more involved in the universe.


Because he plays uncle doctor to resolve daddy issues for his squadmates this doesnt mean he was more involved.

In the first game,shepardt works for the citadel, but also did jobs for the alliance. He did favours for one politic. He get involved in the problems human biotics have in the society. Where wasnt even near involment like that in the second game.

 We also learned that the Cidatel and the Mass Effect relays were not created by them. Also that the reapers keep a race to work for them.
 


Either you had a bad memory or you didnt play the first game if those information were new for you. All those facts were already gained in the dialog with sovereign and vigil.

#198
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

Guest_Catch This Fade_*
  • Guests

Prom001 wrote...

ashamed?

No, I would say the game wasnt about stoping the reapers, it was about stoping the attacks on human colonies.
Or as Harbinger said at the end:"Human you have achieve nothing."

Arrival is no different.

Which is the point of it.

That's a lie. Arrival is the only thing Mass Effect 2 related that moved the plot forward with any relevance.

#199
frylock23

frylock23
  • Members
  • 3 037 messages

scotkrow wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

riveraeg wrote...

I disagree that the game is a filler for several reasons.

First, in ME2 Shepard is more involved in the universe. The back story of several characters like Mordin is really important. Saying that is filler is like also saying Virmirre is filler. Unless we see the finish product we can't really tell what is important.

Second, in ME2 we did learn more about the Prothians Fate and the possible future for Humanity. We also learned that the Cidatel and the Mass Effect relays were not created by them. Also that the reapers keep a race to work for them.

Third, the collector base for me seemed to stop the invasion and cut enemy forces down. The base was building husk that were going to be used against the rest of the galaxy. Hence ME2 is important that it might be the universe a fighting chance against the Reapers.


Yeah, we learned these things, but wouldn't they have been more effective or just as effective if they had been DLCs or EPs? Instead, it kind of felt like BioWare cobbled a bunch of these important (admittedly so) plot points into abundle and slapped a so-called storyline thread through them (Collectors and Termy-Reaps) to try to make them seem like a cohesive whole instead of the short story collection they actually were.

If I needed to play through the rising tensions between the Geth and the Quarians, that's fine, but make it an expansion pack/DLC to ME1 rather than a series of character and loyalty missions shoehorned around this other storyline mission that I'm really supposed to be placing as my top priority. The same thing could be said about Mordin/Grunt and the Genophage. Did we really need Grunt while we were at it? If we needed to elucidate the fate of the Protheans and introduce the Collectors and the Reapers plan to make a Termy-Reaps, then we can make a different pack. But did they all have to be shoehorned into one game together in such a way that we are told that they all somehow "go" together? Because I don't think they necessarily did or needed to.


It's way to much material to be in expansion packs or dlc.  And I personally preffer the combat system, and I think the half way point between ME1 and ME2 they have in 3 in terms of weapons and leveling up will be perfect.  I don't think ME2 is any less of an RPG than ME1, because you're still roleplaying a character, even if there's not as much customization and such, you're making choices and such.  And there's so much content in ME2 that it'd take so many expansion packs and dlcs for ME1 that it'd cost way more than a new game to buy them all.


I never said it wasn't an RPG, but it isn't really like a sequal to ME1. It does set up some important things for ME3 that couldn't be covered in ME1, but those things are lost in a sea of other stuff that really forms a poor bridge. It's not like a second story that builds on the first. At most, it's like a set of short stories taking place in the ME universe that takes place after the events of ME1 and before ME3, but it doesn't feel like a necessary part of the plot that explains how we go from ME1 to ME3.

And as far as gameplay mechanics go, I wasn't addressing them in my post, only the story. I agree that the gameplay mechanics of ME2 are much improved, but I didn't need all of ME2 for that particular upgrade.

Modifié par frylock23, 24 février 2012 - 11:12 .


#200
Rasofe

Rasofe
  • Members
  • 1 065 messages
It's obvious that they're lowering our expectations so that when the game is bought and played, we get SUCH an experience that we'll daydream about it for months.
Unlike companies that are out to make money that give you perfect demos and build up towards a very epic-looking story only to deliver howash, Bioware gives the fans promises, pretends not to hold them, then will keep to them and YAY the sense of happy surprise, WHICH SHOULD BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE comes in to boost the player experience.

Consider - everyone knows the game is a trilogy where the previous actions affect the story and plot. But they're not supposed to know. Mass Effect made many sales on the promise of a trilogy, but now they want to bring back what they lost by reveiling this fact - they want to add the element of surprise.