247 réponses à ce sujet

[Naqey]

riveraeg wrote...

I disagree that the game is a filler for several reasons.

First, in ME2 Shepard is more involved in the universe. The back story of several characters like Mordin is really important. Saying that is filler is like also saying Virmirre is filler. Unless we see the finish product we can't really tell what is important.

Second, in ME2 we did learn more about the Prothians Fate and the possible future for Humanity. We also learned that the Cidatel and the Mass Effect relays were not created by them. Also that the reapers keep a race to work for them.

Third, the collector base for me seemed to stop the invasion and cut enemy forces down. The base was building husk that were going to be used against the rest of the galaxy. Hence ME2 is important that it might be the universe a fighting chance against the Reapers.

first point: comparing virmire with the krogan/solarian/genophage story just doesnt work for me, because it is on virmire where you have your first real contact with sovereign /the reapers

second point: as someone already pointed out, you learn all of that stuff in me1. the only thing new in me2 is the revelation that the protheans are the collectors and that the reapers can turn entire races into their slaves (which you already could have figured out in the first part)

third point: we dont stop the invasion in me2, we delay it. and I guess the reapers couldnt care less about losing the collectors

I´m not saying me2 was bad (as a matter of fact, I like it more than the first part), but still, after seeing what they´ve done with most of the me2 cast, it just feels kinda "meh".
yeah you get background informations (if you want that, you should also read the books (which btw are WAY more important for the main story than me2)), learn more about cerberus and TIM, but thats it.
considering they knew all along that the shepard story would be a trilogy, they could have done a MUCH better job with the middle part (which arguably is the hardest part, no real beginning / end yada yada).
It´s like frodo meeting a whole new bunch of people who accompany him on his journy to mordor in the two towers, but then in return of the king, all of them are just "there", but not really an important part of the story ~~

[tonnactus]

jreezy wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


She says in ME1 that she's "little more than a child".

She is viewed as as little more then a child by elder asari,what is understandable regarding how long asari live.
But i dont know teenagers with a phd and centuries of experience in field research....

"Centuries"? Not exactly.

Right,decades.

Modifié par tonnactus, 25 février 2012 - 12:29 .

[Rasofe]

She's actually quite ahead of the average asari in both manner, experience and disposition. She's born in the latest generation, so she's most likely to pioneer new ideas despite her youth.
Still, I was vehemently against having her as an LI. There's a reason Tali only becomes available in ME2.

[AxisEvolve]

They sidelined the Mass Effect 2 squad because pretty much all of them can die. They didn't want to do extensive work on them when they won't be in a lot of people's imports. Let's face it, the casual gamer didn't go to great lengths to upgrade the Normandy and such so many squaddies ended up dead.

[AgitatedLemon]

AxisEvolve wrote...

They sidelined the Mass Effect 2 squad because pretty much all of them can die. They didn't want to do extensive work on them when they won't be in a lot of people's imports. Let's face it, the casual gamer didn't go to great lengths to upgrade the Normandy and such so many squaddies ended up dead.

Tell Garrus and Tali all of this.

[AxisEvolve]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

They sidelined the Mass Effect 2 squad because pretty much all of them can die. They didn't want to do extensive work on them when they won't be in a lot of people's imports. Let's face it, the casual gamer didn't go to great lengths to upgrade the Normandy and such so many squaddies ended up dead.

Tell Garrus and Tali all of this.

Yes I'm aware of this. But look at how little we have seen of Tali so far. It seems to me they are putting an emphasis on James, Liara and the Virmire Survivor. We get them early on in the game and who knows when we get Tali and Garrus...

[AgitatedLemon]

AxisEvolve wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

They sidelined the Mass Effect 2 squad because pretty much all of them can die. They didn't want to do extensive work on them when they won't be in a lot of people's imports. Let's face it, the casual gamer didn't go to great lengths to upgrade the Normandy and such so many squaddies ended up dead.

Tell Garrus and Tali all of this.

Yes I'm aware of this. But look at how little we have seen of Tali so far. It seems to me they are putting an emphasis on James, Liara and the Virmire Survivor. We get them early on in the game and who knows when we get Tali and Garrus...

Sur'kesh had been advertised as "early" in the game, and Garrus appears there. 

Considering it's a 40+ hour game, it wouldn't make sense for recruiting to be continued past the 10 hour mark.

Not that any of that actually matters. My point was the two of them bypassed the logic barrier because of pure fan service. At least, Tali did. I can half understand Garrus.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 25 février 2012 - 12:59 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Tali is the only confirmed squadmate whose dialogue is not in the Sur'Kesh audio files. I assume she's not available till some point after that mission.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 25 février 2012 - 12:59 .

[AxisEvolve]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sur'kesh had been advertised as "early" in the game, and Garrus appears there. 

Considering it's a 40+ hour game, it wouldn't make sense for recruiting to be continued past the 10 hour mark.

Not that any of that actually matters. My point was the two of them bypassed the logic barrier because of pure fan service. At least, Tali did. I can half understand Garrus.

Yeah I agree about the fan service. 

I thought I heard that Sur'Kesh was mid game but you're probably right.. I really don't remember.

I'm not sure why Miranda wasn't included in the ME3 squad. If I recall correctly, she couldn't be killed in ME2.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 25 février 2012 - 01:03 .

[AgitatedLemon]

AxisEvolve wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sur'kesh had been advertised as "early" in the game, and Garrus appears there. 

Considering it's a 40+ hour game, it wouldn't make sense for recruiting to be continued past the 10 hour mark.

Not that any of that actually matters. My point was the two of them bypassed the logic barrier because of pure fan service. At least, Tali did. I can half understand Garrus.

Yeah I agree about the fan service. 

I thought I heard that Sur'Kesh was mid game but you're probably right.. I really don't remember.

I'm not sure why Miranda wasn't included in the ME3 squad. If I recall correctly, she couldn't be killed in ME2.

Miranda can be killed in ME2. Granted, she's statistically the most difficult to kill. IIRC, the only to kill her is to take her to the human Reaper while non-loyal. She can lead the fire teams and do the biotic bubble without loyalty, if I'm not mistaken.

[izmirtheastarach]

AxisEvolve wrote...

Yeah I agree about the fan service. 

I thought I heard that Sur'Kesh was mid game but you're probably right.. I really don't remember.

I'm not sure why Miranda wasn't included in the ME3 squad. If I recall correctly, she couldn't be killed in ME2.

Miranda can die if she is not loyal and is taken with Shepard on the final mission.

EDIT: Beaet me to it, Lemon.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 25 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[Belv]

Though I will admit, I was hoping for Legion to be a part of your squad since he was so interesting but they keep him from you for the majority of the main story.

[AgitatedLemon]

Belv wrote...

Though I will admit, I was hoping for Legion to be a part of your squad since he was so interesting but they keep him from you for the majority of the main story.

He was originally planned to be recruited far earlier int he game (Pre-Horizon, actually). They just decided to move him ack to the derelict Reaper.

[AgitatedLemon]

jreezy wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

Yeah I agree about the fan service. 

I thought I heard that Sur'Kesh was mid game but you're probably right.. I really don't remember.

I'm not sure why Miranda wasn't included in the ME3 squad. If I recall correctly, she couldn't be killed in ME2.

Miranda can die if she is not loyal and is taken with Shepard on the final mission.

EDIT: Beaet me to it, Lemon.

Actually Miranda can die if she's loyal.

How? If she's loyal during the Reaper fight, she's fine. If you pick her for anything, she'll be fine.

[lastpawn]

Um, what? They're not ashamed of ME2, they're ashamed of ME1.

I thought this was made abundantly clear over the last few years.

Modifié par lastpawn, 25 février 2012 - 02:25 .

[AgitatedLemon]

jreezy wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

jreezy wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

Yeah I agree about the fan service. 

I thought I heard that Sur'Kesh was mid game but you're probably right.. I really don't remember.

I'm not sure why Miranda wasn't included in the ME3 squad. If I recall correctly, she couldn't be killed in ME2.

Miranda can die if she is not loyal and is taken with Shepard on the final mission.

EDIT: Beaet me to it, Lemon.

Actually Miranda can die if she's loyal.

How? If she's loyal during the Reaper fight, she's fine. If you pick her for anything, she'll be fine.

She died holding the line in a playthrough when she was loyal.

Ok, I need proof for this. IIRC, Miranda, Grunt, and Zaeed all provide the highest "hold the line" score. you can just have the 3 of them + one more person sticking back and everyone will be safe, because the threshold was met (Assuming all 3 of them were loyal).

[mauro2222]

lastpawn wrote...

Um, what? They're not ashamed of ME2, they're ashamed of ME1.

Damn, I'm ashamed of them from being ashamed of ME1 and not ME2

[Durgon Ironfist]

I'm ashamed of OP and think he should be ashamed of himself. Again with the ME2 bashing it was a good game with a good narrative. In Empire they didn't get anywhere in their war yet it still set the stage for Jedi, yet you don't **** about that.

[Xeranx]

scotkrow wrote...

I was just playing 2 and came across Rana when I was getting Grunt, I had always thought of her by her last name Thanoptis.  She's going to make an appearance in ME3 for sure, but she's more like a side character, he's like Lando's Admin assustant in ESB.

And it's not a story comparison from ESB and ME2, it's a purpose comparison. 
And if you do want a story comparison.  The reapers are the threat, like the empire, and they are present in the collectors.  you don't know the collectors are reaper puppets until you see the husks on horizan, and that's the 1/3 way mark in the game, you're dealing with the collectors as your "payment" for cerberus bringing you back, and they are targeting humans, shepard views their responsibility to be humans/all life in the galaxy.  Also shepard has no leads on the reapers, and going after the collectors is a good way to travel and look for leads on the reapers, because other than that there's no way to really hunt them, you have to wait for them to come to you, so you just have to find evidence that they exist so that everyone else will believe you and start preparing.

My point is that there are characters that can easily make the transition from side character to main character or powerful secondary focus.  Rana and Shiala are right there at the top.  Just for being in the situations they were, those two have the most potential for more involvement.  They don't have to be relegated to being side characters, but they are.  I mean, Liara's role wasn't realized until the cipher was obtained from Shiala.  And after that Liara's role was completed.  Her current role is entirely contrived.  There is no logical next step that I can see for how she got from where she was to where she is.

Where the transition for a main character is done well is with Wrex.  I don't remember Wrex experessing a desire to go back to his people and unite them, but I can't say it would never happen.  He has strong feelings about the genophage.  Going back to unite the clans to create a unified Krogran race seems entirely possible and probable.

I thought I was doing a purpose comparison by illustrating Luke's preparation to take on Vader.  On the comparison of purpose for the story, ME2 doesn't match up with ESB.  The ME3 demo highlights this when Shepard is able to say that "we're not ready".  The first time I saw that scene I immediately thought about all the things ME2 didn't accomplish towards the overarching story.  And I still maintain that ME2 could have had some of what it did, but continue the hook, resolve the hanging chad that was left at the end of ME.  That's going to be done in ME3 though which doesn't leave me with high hopes of a satisfying conclusion since the Galaxy vs Reapers conflict has, essentially, two parts that have to be resolved in the same volume.  If they can pull it off, then great, but they have a steep hill to climb as far as I'm concerned.

[Gtdef]

The problem is that despite the whole collector situation, reapers arrive some months later. Practically the only thing that happens by the time shepard beats the collectors till me3 is that the alliance gets a few more ships to protect earth and it doesnt change a damn thing, according to what we know so far. So unless me3 is about cerberus evolving and becoming the primary figure in the game, then the events of me2 wont change much. The collectors and one more (probably unfisnished) reaper wouldnt change the outcome of the war anyway.

Imo the story is all messed up and I don't really care about it anymore. I just hope that they will introduce some cool elements to keep me occupied for 1 or 2 (if the gameplay is actually good) runs.

Modifié par Gtdef, 25 février 2012 - 10:49 .