61 réponses à ce sujet

[ncknck]

"Easier to use", suggests that the other choice has the same functionality but is harder to use. At some gain, but i will omit this since stasis vulnerability fails even at point one, its nowhere the same functionality as the bubble. Stating that is just ridiculous. In fact i fail to see reasons to even invest in vulnerability, and would like to hear something for its support instead of just debating about freedom of choices noone is disputing anyway. Tbh is does come off as somewhat elitist, just because vuln. is has to be aimed doesnt automatically makes it better, and its users pr0s. It is just bad.

Modifié par ncknck, 23 février 2012 - 05:50 .

[shumworld]

IlluminaZer0 wrote...

It is also useful for de-shielding Guardians with absolutely zero effort.

YES!!!

[The Makatak]

ncknck wrote...

"Easier to use", suggests that the other choice has the same functionality but is harder to use. At some gain, but i will omit this since stasis vulnerability fails even at point one, its nowhere the same functionality as the bubble. Stating that is just ridiculous. In fact i fail to see reasons to even invest in vulnerability, and would like to hear something for its support instead of just debating about freedom of choices noone is disputing anyway. Tbh is does come off as somewhat elitist, just because vuln. is more difficult to use doesnt automatically makes it better, and its users pr0s. It is just bad.

I don't actually have to respond to this. You're right, it's elitist. I'm elite, and not because of freedom of choice. I'm just better. But I'll give you some peace of mind as to my experiences with vulnerability.

The vulnerability comes in to play in choke points as well, because it involves all incoming damage to the primary target. On gold, only overload will one-shot a Phantom's barriers, and that's only when the class in question specs in to power damage increase. So you've got to waste good headshots on getting rid of the barrier, unless you take the vulnerability path in stasis. At which point, a chain overload takes the modifiers of the original target before applying its 60% reduction to all other nearby targets. Instantly you can remove the barriers from the primary target and take enough out of her sisters that they'll retreat back in to cover and not attempt to kill you and your buddies. Yeah, so they're not frozen, but you've got tech explosions and biotic explosions killing them just the same, and while bubble stasis is the safer route, the damage increase and AoE will wipe out those same three targets faster, allowing you and your teammates to get back to cover your flank or get to work on that atlas that also started coming in the back door.

Secondarily, in Gold, you have to assassinate 4 targets, on Wave 6 I believe those targets are going to be Phantoms. While bubble, sure, is almost as effective, you don't get the luxury of waiting for the targets to come to you. Setting up your infiltrator with a one-shot that they can take from cloak is more effective when the phantom is out in the middle of a field and not by any choke points. The same goes for a Combat Engineer series of targets. Now, sure, you can set up similar headshots with bubble, but without the damage increase, your infiltrator or whoever's sniping will be out of cover for usually a second shot, and that can in the wrong situations prove risky. Not OMGdire, but risky.

So I support the vulnerability path, but again, that's because my team works better that way. Were I to play my Asari Adept in PUGs primarily? I'd probably go bubble. At that point, it is the safer choice. But my team is specced for synergy, and what we do, we do damn well.

[golyoscsapagy]

The Makatak wrote...
As stated earlier, Bubble is easier to use. That does not make it better. Damage stasis is for advanced/expert players who can regularly set off stasis explosions, or who have teammates who know how to combo abilities off of other players (kind of like how it happens in SP... ). Now, most players aren't quite of that caliber (yet), and so I can understand why bubble is generally seen as having the greater utility. But don't make generalized statements like that, they're misleading and pretentious.

Same could be said about you.

Again: anything which would take damage from a biotic explosion, is in the range of a bubble stasis. It lasts 15 secs, it's completely unnecessary to kill them any faster. It's just overkill, a waste, like having an infiltrator to cloak with a widow for an assault trooper headshot.

But if you mean 'expert' like: 'reaching a worse effect with much more effort involved' I guess you're right.

Modifié par golyoscsapagy, 23 février 2012 - 06:01 .

[ncknck]

The Makatak wrote...

The vulnerability comes in to play in choke points as well, because it involves all incoming damage to the primary target. 

Thats nice, but it isnt how bubble works. bubble works preemptively. In other words you trap the place and go concentrate the damage output on something else, until something isnt caught. The vuln. user has to constantly monitor the place, among other things, and can do nothing useful otherwise, and when someone comes, he has to spend at least 3 seconds to trap the group, by making a warp bomb. Essentially with vuln. you sacrifice 25% of groups power do to nothing but waiting. And thats assuming perfect teamplay with no oh-sh*t moments, where vuln. user has so spend again at least 3 second to stop multiple targets. Like said, this is just horrible. 

Secondarily, in Gold, you have to assassinate 4 targets, on Wave 6 I believe those targets are going to be Phantoms.

Actually, on Gold these are going to be Atlases. And getting to them is gonna require some serious crowd control.

Modifié par ncknck, 23 février 2012 - 06:29 .

[The Makatak]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

The Makatak wrote...
As stated earlier, Bubble is easier to use. That does not make it better. Damage stasis is for advanced/expert players who can regularly set off stasis explosions, or who have teammates who know how to combo abilities off of other players (kind of like how it happens in SP... ). Now, most players aren't quite of that caliber (yet), and so I can understand why bubble is generally seen as having the greater utility. But don't make generalized statements like that, they're misleading and pretentious.

Same could be said about you.

Again: anything which would take damage from a biotic explosion, is in the range of a bubble stasis. It lasts 15 secs, it's completely unnecessary to kill them any faster. It's just overkill, a waste, like having an infiltrator to cloak with a widow for an assault trooper headshot.

But if you mean 'expert' like: 'reaching a worse effect with much more effort involved' I guess you're right.

Unnecessary and overkill? Say that when you have 3 phantoms trying to get in, two guardians at the backdoor, an engineer setting up a turret outside, and Nemesis sighted on your hidey hole from every direction with an Atlas coming around the corner firing missiles if you try to fall back. What's the bubble stasis adept going to do? Bubble the phantoms on one end and the guardians on the other?



In gold, my team kills giant groups of people, usually in large, seemingly clumsy tech bursts and biotic explosions. In fact, those are probably the bulk of our kills. We also do full runs in about 25-30 minutes. So most of us invest points in damage increasers particularly for cooperative efforts. The stasis vulnerability is just one of many effects that help our strategy. But it's about teamwork. It's a combined effort. It's the difference between a single entity of multiple parts, and four individuals working together.

Apparently this concept is beyond understanding. As I've said several times, were it not for teamwork and composition, I could absolutely see Bubble being the better option. I've stated plainly multiple times that I see your point. It is you who fail to grasp the idea that something other than your preconceived notions might work, that Bioware might have put in a second option for people with the intent that it might somehow not be a linear improvement, but situationally superior, and not just a big giant trollface slapped on it. And maybe your team likes a slower, more cautious approach. That's an okay strategy too. Bubble's great for that. But it's not for everyone, and I continue to contest that, in certain makeups that are certainly viable, particularly within cohesive groups, the vulnerability evolution is superior.

[UK Wildcat]

I actually agree with Makatak after his lengthy explanations of why it would be better situationally for his team.

I do however believe that for most situations bubble is king, in most group setups.

Also, as a note Mak, energy drain from an inf can be specced to deplete a phantom's shields. I use it all the time. ED --> Headshot --> Dead phantom.

[ncknck]

The Makatak wrote...

Bioware might have put in a second option for people with the intent that it might somehow not be a linear improvement, but situationally superior

This sentence is the truth on many levels. Bubble is not a linear improvement, its a completely revamped skill, thats what makes it so great, and stasis vuln. is not an linear improvement at all.

And maybe your team likes a slower, more cautious approach. .. We also do full runs in about 25-30 minutes.

I loled. 30min for gold after all this superior teamplay talk? Thats public time with random people micless. But if it feels "good" well this game has no pvp, so whatever.

Modifié par ncknck, 23 février 2012 - 07:54 .

[Ragnarokuserai]

Ohei wrote...

Stasis bubble when you're playing on Gold = huge advantage. Especially on waves 8, 9 and 10.

^^
+1

[Kilshrek]

Just finished a couple of games on Silver with Asari adept with stasis bubble. Just gotta say, the bubble is boss. Crowd control, phantom control, you name it.

[nici2412]

The bubble is op, especially against phentoms. They are a joke, if you have a asari adept in yout team.

[Assumedkilla]

UK Wildcat wrote...

This thread is funny. It's always good watching 'zomg leave brittany alone!" type remarks when people's bad choices are critiqued. There are good ways to play in multiplayer and bad ways to play. All opinions / builds are not equal. Some are more effective than others. That's not snobbery or pretentiousness, that's just facts folks.

For multiplayer gold matches bubble is better than damage. The increased utility which translates to survivability and efficiency outweighs your attempts to nab a few more points so you can be an awesome person in your mind.

That's true to some extent about different builds, but if someone is winning more than losing, usually gets the most points, and most kills/assists, then telling them they're playing wrong is pretty stupid. Also, building an Asari Adept to kill rather than to just support isn’t an attempt to seem like an "awesome person". You guys are basically trying to make your opinions seem like fact, which is why some of you seem pompous.

The AOE benefits of bubble aren't that big of a deal compared to extra damage, since I'm going to turn it into a bomb 0 to 2 seconds after they're in stasis, which kills the target and damages/freezes everyone nearby… and all of that happens while I’m safe behind cover. Really, one group here is saying "both methods are fine it depends on the person" and the other group is mainly saying "Nope, we're right… deal with it", when it's really an subjective issue/choice.