49 réponses à ce sujet

[Berkilak]

IsaacShep wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

But again... as a human, you fill that role much better, much more reliably.

Human Vanguard can't produce biotic explosions by him/herself, it's a MAJOR asset of Drellguard, especially with radius upgrade for Pull. Yes, Drellguard's shields are TOO weak (hoping it wil get fixed a bit in full game)

IlluminaZer0 wrote...

I certainly wouldn't mind a barrier buff though.

Yep. I don't mind at all having him be weaker in barrier than human vanguard, he's suppoused to be a bit different kind of vanguard, but they went overboard with making his barriers so weak. 50% barrier buff for retail release should happen

And adepts can create better explosions without putting themselves directly in harm's way with little defense. Everything they can do, someone else does better by a wide margin. As a huge fan of the drell vanguard concept, I'm railing against this. I want them to have their own function. I want them to bring something unique to the table. I have no idea why anyone would continually defend their mediocrity. 

Yes, you can make do with what they've been given. But that isn't the issue here - it's that they could be so much more if they were given of focused and/or unique role. Which they currently do not possess.

[Team Value]

I can play a drell vanguard pretty well on bronze, but I agree that above that they are just too squishy. On silver, even grenades that you have rolled away from can instantly kill you. Random fire from across the map can instantly kill you. There just isn't any room for error at all.

I like the concept of the finesse biotic, but the actual gameplay (which is all about mass waves of tougher and tougher enemies) just does not support such a fragile class.

[xcrunr1647]

I really, really enjoy pull because it turns Guardians into Assault Troopers.

Idk, my DVG just feels really vulnerable. I had never considered pull-sniping though, I'll have to try that.

[xcrunr1647]

I would much prefer a Drell Infiltrator than a DVG.

Who's with me?

[Berkilak]

Team Value wrote...

I can play a drell vanguard pretty well on bronze, but I agree that above that they are just too squishy. On silver, even grenades that you have rolled away from can instantly kill you. Random fire from across the map can instantly kill you. There just isn't any room for error at all.

I like the concept of the finesse biotic, but the actual gameplay (which is all about mass waves of tougher and tougher enemies) just does not support such a fragile class.

The fragility would be fine if there was some kind of mechanic in place to justify it. But there isn't. They do a lot less damage than human Vanguards at a lot more risk. The class would be infinitely better if it was simply a different class - as is, Charge is simply a suicide button that might help you to revive someone in an emergency situation.

I can see people being fine with the class on Bronze. Even on Silver, if you're a lot more careful than other classes need to be (and other Vanguards), you can still fulfill your function as a Vanguard. But come Gold, there is no question that you are a wasted slot.

Yes, we can create Biotic explosions solo. But so what? Other classes do it better, more reliably, with little to no risk to themselves. We bring absolutely nothing to the table that would justify our inclusion over another. Everything we do, others do it better. We are given two roles that do not synergize at all. And that's very unfortunate.

[Berkilak]

xcrunr1647 wrote...

I really, really enjoy pull because it turns Guardians into Assault Troopers.

Idk, my DVG just feels really vulnerable. I had never considered pull-sniping though, I'll have to try that.

That's a nice perk. But any team with a Sniper of any class worth their salt makes that entirely moot. Heck, even human Vanguards can simply charge in and turn those buggers around for their team to take out, and that's just a consequence of their regular playstyle rather than anything they need to go out of the way to do.

[Team Value]

Berkilak wrote...

Team Value wrote...

I can play a drell vanguard pretty well on bronze, but I agree that above that they are just too squishy. On silver, even grenades that you have rolled away from can instantly kill you. Random fire from across the map can instantly kill you. There just isn't any room for error at all.

I like the concept of the finesse biotic, but the actual gameplay (which is all about mass waves of tougher and tougher enemies) just does not support such a fragile class.

The fragility would be fine if there was some kind of mechanic in place to justify it. But there isn't. They do a lot less damage than human Vanguards at a lot more risk. The class would be infinitely better if it was simply a different class - as is, Charge is simply a suicide button that might help you to revive someone in an emergency situation.

I can see people being fine with the class on Bronze. Even on Silver, if you're a lot more careful than other classes need to be (and other Vanguards), you can still fulfill your function as a Vanguard. But come Gold, there is no question that you are a wasted slot.

Yes, we can create Biotic explosions solo. But so what? Other classes do it better, more reliably, with little to no risk to themselves. We bring absolutely nothing to the table that would justify our inclusion over another. Everything we do, others do it better. We are given two roles that do not synergize at all. And that's very unfortunate.

I think the concept is for the drell vanguard to be a one-on-one vanguard, and it is very good at taking out phantoms and nemesises (or just zooming to trouble spots to help out), but...the human vanguard can do that too and is much more likely to live to tell about it.

Modifié par Team Value, 23 février 2012 - 02:23 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Carnifex + Damage + Scope

Pull +charge/ Pull +Carnifex Headshot/ Aim with grenades/ Charge +one headshot

I really really enjoy the DVG skill set... very challenging to play and when done correctly you can get in a groove of death and destruction.

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 23 février 2012 - 02:23 .

[regularpower]

isnt the drell supposed to be a bit more squishy then humans ?

[Berkilak]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Carnifex + Damage + Scope

Pull +charge/ Pull +Carnifex Headshot/ Aim with grenades/ Charge +one headshot

I really really enjoy the DVG skill set... very challenging to play and when done correctly you can get in a groove of death and destruction.

But, for the same amount of effort, any other class gets more reward. It takes a lot of effort just to be adequate, and is virtually impossible to excel when compared to someone of another class (or a human Vanguard) who is also playing at the top of their game.

[Berkilak]

regularpower wrote...

isnt the drell supposed to be a bit more squishy then humans ?

They actually possess a denser musculature relative to humans, and are much more resilient to various environments, as long as the humidity is relatively low. 

[Cloaking_Thane]

Berkilak wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Carnifex + Damage + Scope

Pull +charge/ Pull +Carnifex Headshot/ Aim with grenades/ Charge +one headshot

I really really enjoy the DVG skill set... very challenging to play and when done correctly you can get in a groove of death and destruction.

But, for the same amount of effort, any other class gets more reward. It takes a lot of effort just to be adequate, and is virtually impossible to excel when compared to someone of another class (or a human Vanguard) who is also playing at the top of their game.

It's not that difficult, nor does it require more effort that anything else or well placed teamwork. The only thing they need is a slight buff to shields.

I've played with, and been a "top of the leaderboard" on silver Drell VG, Gold is a bit harder to manage and where the additional Barrier would come in handy.

It's not really out of balalnce, could use another 150 or so of starting shields to get it to 400 starting out

[Berkilak]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Carnifex + Damage + Scope

Pull +charge/ Pull +Carnifex Headshot/ Aim with grenades/ Charge +one headshot

I really really enjoy the DVG skill set... very challenging to play and when done correctly you can get in a groove of death and destruction.

But, for the same amount of effort, any other class gets more reward. It takes a lot of effort just to be adequate, and is virtually impossible to excel when compared to someone of another class (or a human Vanguard) who is also playing at the top of their game.

It's not that difficult, nor does it require more effort that anything else or well placed teamwork. The only thing they need is a slight buff to shields.

I've played with, and been a "top of the leaderboard" on silver Drell VG, Gold is a bit harder to manage and where the additional Barrier would come in handy.

It's not really out of balalnce, could use another 150 or so of starting shields to get it to 400 starting out

I'm not saying that you cannot top out the leaderboards in Bronze or Silver. Playing my drellguard as a Vanguard, I can regularly double the second place score on those two difficulties. But revisit that human Vangaurd and realize how much more effort you are putting in. Likewise, at Gold difficulty, your role as a Vanguard becomes moot. You become a ranged disabler with a slight close-range defensive capability. Which would be fine if that role didn't void the very spirit of the class.

[Cloaking_Thane]

HVG is no better on gold to me I'm competent with both, so we can agree to disagree. Gold depends entirely on teamwork anyway, no one is going to solo, or 2 man gold probably with any class let alone a VG.

VG is of course the toughest class to play well due to the nature of charge/ and or Nova.

I find pull>shockwave and BG's have great utility and much less risk than Nova.

Drell VG is the thinking mans VG of the demo.

[Berkilak]

I'm not saying that drellguards cannot compete on Gold. Simply that they do not have a focused role ( particularly as a Vanguard), and that any chosen role is done mechanically better by their human counterpart or other classes entirely. You're simply a poor man's Vanguard, a poor man's Adept, or a combination of both that performs neither role admirably.

Drell Vanguard remains my favourite and most-played class... in concept. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that it is ideal just because you happen to fancy the combination.

Modifié par Berkilak, 23 février 2012 - 03:10 .

[sandpants]

Drell adepts are likely to be infinitely better than their vanguards.

With Reave, pull and those wicked grenades.

I really do not see why they made a vanguard and an adept with 1 skill difference.

With how reave works in ME3, chances are their adepts are relatively great.

[Hyrist]

I get the feeling Balik doesn't want to be convinced, he wants to be validated. In which case continuing to talk to him would be a waste of time.

Modifié par Hyrist, 23 février 2012 - 03:22 .

[Hyrist]

double post

Modifié par Hyrist, 23 février 2012 - 03:22 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Berkilak wrote...

I'm not saying that drellguards cannot compete on Gold. Simply that they do not have a focused role ( particularly as a Vanguard), and that any chosen role is done mechanically better by their human counterpart or other classes entirely. You're simply a poor man's Vanguard, a poor man's Adept, or a combination of both that performs neither role admirably.

Drell Vanguard remains my favourite and most-played class... in concept. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that it is ideal just because you happen to fancy the combination.

No one is deluding anything, with an acceptable buff to barriers they would be equivalent to HVG, thats really the only sticking point right now.

Varying playstyles are always welcome. If it's your favorite and most played class then they are doing something correctly.

[Cloaking_Thane]

sandpants wrote...

Drell adepts are likely to be infinitely better than their vanguards.

With Reave, pull and those wicked grenades.

I really do not see why they made a vanguard and an adept with 1 skill difference.

With how reave works in ME3, chances are their adepts are relatively great.

Does reave set off combos?

[Hyrist]

I'm still wondering why everyone is looking at Drellguard in a vacuum. Drellguard makes an excellent biotic support with the sickening low timer on pull. Paired with any Adept. Drellguards in particular can use pull-disabeled enemies to relocate to a better spot to reak havoc. This is in additonal to what other classes can before, or in differing class combinations than the flat assumption that Vanguard = Tank.

[Berkilak]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

I'm not saying that drellguards cannot compete on Gold. Simply that they do not have a focused role ( particularly as a Vanguard), and that any chosen role is done mechanically better by their human counterpart or other classes entirely. You're simply a poor man's Vanguard, a poor man's Adept, or a combination of both that performs neither role admirably.

Drell Vanguard remains my favourite and most-played class... in concept. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that it is ideal just because you happen to fancy the combination.

No one is deluding anything, with an acceptable buff to barriers they would be equivalent to HVG, thats really the only sticking point right now.

Varying playstyles are always welcome. If it's your favorite and most played class then they are doing something correctly.

They're getting the concept down. That's all. How it plays out leaves much to be desired from a mechanical standpoint.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Berkilak wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

I'm not saying that drellguards cannot compete on Gold. Simply that they do not have a focused role ( particularly as a Vanguard), and that any chosen role is done mechanically better by their human counterpart or other classes entirely. You're simply a poor man's Vanguard, a poor man's Adept, or a combination of both that performs neither role admirably.

Drell Vanguard remains my favourite and most-played class... in concept. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that it is ideal just because you happen to fancy the combination.

No one is deluding anything, with an acceptable buff to barriers they would be equivalent to HVG, thats really the only sticking point right now.

Varying playstyles are always welcome. If it's your favorite and most played class then they are doing something correctly.

They're getting the concept down. That's all. How it plays out leaves much to be desired from a mechanical standpoint.

I disagree. What are you suggesting they swap and it still remain different or unique enough then HVG or AVG?

[Berkilak]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

I'm not saying that drellguards cannot compete on Gold. Simply that they do not have a focused role ( particularly as a Vanguard), and that any chosen role is done mechanically better by their human counterpart or other classes entirely. You're simply a poor man's Vanguard, a poor man's Adept, or a combination of both that performs neither role admirably.

Drell Vanguard remains my favourite and most-played class... in concept. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that it is ideal just because you happen to fancy the combination.

No one is deluding anything, with an acceptable buff to barriers they would be equivalent to HVG, thats really the only sticking point right now.

Varying playstyles are always welcome. If it's your favorite and most played class then they are doing something correctly.

They're getting the concept down. That's all. How it plays out leaves much to be desired from a mechanical standpoint.

I disagree. What are you suggesting they swap and it still remain different or unique enough then HVG or AVG?

All we need is an ability that doesn't prove itself to be a liability in melee range. It would be interesting if we could swap either Pull or Cluster Grenades with Reave. We'd be treading too much familiar territory if we were given Nova, but Reave would be most excellect - it would allow us to disable groups of enemies, Charge in, and clean up tactically, all the while buffing our durability as is needed.

[ZombieGambit]

I was about to use him today since I leveled up Vanguard to 13, but after putting a few points in Fitness he has 500ish health and 300ish barriers. WTF? That's pretty much suicidal to do anything other than sit back and spam powers.