24 réponses à ce sujet

[P38 ace]

as 3/6/12 inches closer day by day, the hole polt is still imporant but for me the romaces have become a big investment for me personal.

the whole idea of a marrige, During or after the game, and what happends after, that i feel needs to be told
I have 6 charactors so far, maybe 1 or 2 more and each is a differant class and has a differant LI. i would like to see a conclution to these romaces in some way or another.

Soldier/Male-Laira
Engineer-Ash
Vangaurd-Tali
Sentinal-Kaden
Adept/Female-Laira
Vanguard-Garrus

the males did not mach up class to class, but i did on the femals
I will probably do another Vanguard with Thane, and some class with Jack
Off my topic but how did your LI's class match up

[Aggie Punbot]

Okay, when I read 3/6/12 inches, my mind went completely elsewhere. That being said, I sincerely doubt we'll get any such closure for our Shepards if they survive along with their love interest.

[AgitatedLemon]

I would like a happy ending with the LI (Maybe not marriage, it just doesn't fit a few of the romances).

Sadly, the *spoiler endings* for ME3 almost make it impossible.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Many months ago, I have always hoped to see this type of future with Miri, but with all that was revealed willingly and unwillingly, that has been proven impossible.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 février 2012 - 05:14 .

[FeralEwok]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Okay, when I read 3/6/12 inches, my mind went completely elsewhere.

BAD AGGIE NO!


@OP

With everything that is going on in ME3, I feel like throwing a marriage in there would be too much, and most likely forced.

[AgitatedLemon]

FeralEwok wrote...

With everything that is going on in ME3, I feel like throwing a marriage in there would be too much, and most likely forced.

Not if it were done post-credits or in an epilogue movie.

Unfortunately, the endings for ME3 don't really allow that.

[FeralEwok]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

FeralEwok wrote...

With everything that is going on in ME3, I feel like throwing a marriage in there would be too much, and most likely forced.

Not if it were done post-credits or in an epilogue movie.

Unfortunately, the endings for ME3 don't really allow that.

I guess. But I'd rather the game end at the logical conclusion point.

Having a "but wait..there's more!" where Shepard and LI have a wedding seems like a weak place to end. I know we all like our LI's, but I don't think it should be the focal point of the ending...be it after the credits or not.

[staindgrey]

I've always held onto hope that Bioware would approach romance in a more sociological way, taking into account the social implications of a certain pairing (homosexual, corss-species, etc.), the emotional complications surrounding the possibility (or lack thereof) of children and family, the perceived longevity or again lack thereof, etc.

Instead, we get flirting, approximately one scene of any genuine compassion, sexy time, and then... nothing.DA does a slightly better job with romances than does ME, but neither is even scratching the full potential these things have.

What would the world do if they knew Shepard and Lt. Cdr. Williams were gay together? What about Shepard falling for a failed Cerberus project infamously known for hijacking and blowing up whole stations? What if Shepard, the hero of humanity, was knocking boots with a turian? There would HAVE to be fallout for these things. But there is none. Not within your own squad, not within the human population, and not anywhere else.

So much wasted potential...

[AgitatedLemon]

FeralEwok wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

FeralEwok wrote...

With everything that is going on in ME3, I feel like throwing a marriage in there would be too much, and most likely forced.

Not if it were done post-credits or in an epilogue movie.

Unfortunately, the endings for ME3 don't really allow that.

I guess. But I'd rather the game end at the logical conclusion point.

Having a "but wait..there's more!" where Shepard and LI have a wedding seems like a weak place to end. I know we all like our LI's, but I don't think it should be the focal point of the ending...be it after the credits or not.

It's doesn't need to be a "But there's more!" deal at all.

It could be like the finale to 6 Feet Under (I think), with a "X character goes off to do this..." sort of thing.

An example I see in the Miranda thread I see a lot is "Shepard and Miranda take over the remnants of Cerberus and reform it into a more STG-esque organization".

Not necessarily marriage, but Shepard and Miranda are still doing something together after the Reapers are taken down.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 24 février 2012 - 06:06 .

[G3rman]

Romances are just social options with some of the crew to act as icing on the cake for RPG games. They aren't fleshed out, this thing isn't romance-centric.

[HolyAvenger]

staindgrey wrote...


What would the world do if they knew Shepard and Lt. Cdr. Williams were gay together? What about Shepard falling for a failed Cerberus project infamously known for hijacking and blowing up whole stations? What if Shepard, the hero of humanity, was knocking boots with a turian? There would HAVE to be fallout for these things. But there is none. Not within your own squad, not within the human population, and not anywhere else.

Tbf a lot of this stuff is pretty common in-universe. Cross-species relationships seem pretty standard, there doesn't seem to be any stigma attached to homosexual romances, and Shepard's personal life seems to only matter to him/her and an advertising board on the Citadel.

Lets have drama yeah, but lets have it make sense not drama for drama's sake.

[FeralEwok]

staindgrey wrote...


What would the world do if they knew Shepard and Lt. Cdr. Williams were gay together?
...So much wasted potential...

I'm not so sure it would be a big deal several hundred years from now. Society is becoming more tolerant of homosexuality. Don't ask don't tell was even repelled just recently.

So add another few hundred years of progressive attitudes towards people's lifestyles, the decline of religion (At least that's what I got from when Ash talked about people think she is a freak) and the more liberal mentality humanity has taken on with relationships, it stands to reason there would not be ramifications of this.

I can see that with aliens, but even then I think it's just a vocal minority that would be upset. It's not something that would shake the foundation of the galaxy nor have any impact on the war against the reapers.

[staindgrey]

FeralEwok wrote...

staindgrey wrote...


What would the world do if they knew Shepard and Lt. Cdr. Williams were gay together?
...So much wasted potential...

I'm not so sure it would be a big deal several hundred years from now. Society is becoming more tolerant of homosexuality. Don't ask don't tell was even repelled just recently.

So add another few hundred years of progressive attitudes towards people's lifestyles, the decline of religion (At least that's what I got from when Ash talked about people think she is a freak) and the more liberal mentality humanity has taken on with relationships, it stands to reason there would not be ramifications of this.

I can see that with aliens, but even then I think it's just a vocal minority that would be upset. It's not something that would shake the foundation of the galaxy nor have any impact on the war against the reapers.

Your scope is too narrow. It's not a matter of the "gay" part being wrong.

What about the accusations that Ashley has only risen in rank due to Shepard's feelings for her, that it all started because of that? What would that do for her psyche, when she's tried so hard to clear her family's name on her own?

What about the issue of fraternization? Especially considering the "gay" part, I find it hard to believe that even in less than 200 years there won't still be homophobes in the military or in government claiming that romances like that can kill squads.

What about the squad itself, seeing two women of equal rank also sharing a relationship? There would undoubtedly be drama regarding command and superiority compounded by the romance.

Then there are always religious zealots, who will continue to be around for the next two centuries. You don't think it'll break Ash's faithful heart to get hate messages from "faithful" people condemning her?

Again. SO much potential. And instead all we'll get is flirt and one or two compassionate, isolated moments.

[FeralEwok]

staindgrey wrote...

FeralEwok wrote...

staindgrey wrote...


What would the world do if they knew Shepard and Lt. Cdr. Williams were gay together?
...So much wasted potential...

I'm not so sure it would be a big deal several hundred years from now. Society is becoming more tolerant of homosexuality. Don't ask don't tell was even repelled just recently.

So add another few hundred years of progressive attitudes towards people's lifestyles, the decline of religion (At least that's what I got from when Ash talked about people think she is a freak) and the more liberal mentality humanity has taken on with relationships, it stands to reason there would not be ramifications of this.

I can see that with aliens, but even then I think it's just a vocal minority that would be upset. It's not something that would shake the foundation of the galaxy nor have any impact on the war against the reapers.

Your scope is too narrow. It's not a matter of the "gay" part being wrong.

What about the accusations that Ashley has only risen in rank due to Shepard's feelings for her, that it all started because of that? What would that do for her psyche, when she's tried so hard to clear her family's name on her own?

What about the issue of fraternization? Especially considering the "gay" part, I find it hard to believe that even in less than 200 years there won't still be homophobes in the military or in government claiming that romances like that can kill squads.

What about the squad itself, seeing two women of equal rank also sharing a relationship? There would undoubtedly be drama regarding command and superiority compounded by the romance.

Then there are always religious zealots, who will continue to be around for the next two centuries. You don't think it'll break Ash's faithful heart to get hate messages from "faithful" people condemning her?

Again. SO much potential. And instead all we'll get is flirt and one or two compassionate, isolated moments.

I didn't say that there would not be a single person alive who would object. There is always going to be people who disagree with that lifestyle. Simply saying that it would more than likely be less taboo and there would be less of a chance people would be up in arms about it. Squad wise no one has appeared to be that fundamental or outspoken about s/s relationships.

I don't think it needs to be in there. It's drama for the sake of drama and completely unnecessary because this game is not about a romance. Nor is about the conflict within a romance.

I agree with you totally that there could be much more and there is alot of emotional issues that could come up. It would most certainly give more depth to relationships, but the pacing of the story would suffer if the game turned more into a soap opera.

[staindgrey]

HolyAvenger wrote...

staindgrey wrote...


What would the world do if they knew Shepard and Lt. Cdr. Williams were gay together? What about Shepard falling for a failed Cerberus project infamously known for hijacking and blowing up whole stations? What if Shepard, the hero of humanity, was knocking boots with a turian? There would HAVE to be fallout for these things. But there is none. Not within your own squad, not within the human population, and not anywhere else.

Tbf a lot of this stuff is pretty common in-universe. Cross-species relationships seem pretty standard, there doesn't seem to be any stigma attached to homosexual romances, and Shepard's personal life seems to only matter to him/her and an advertising board on the Citadel.

Lets have drama yeah, but lets have it make sense not drama for drama's sake.

So you're telling me that in a galaxy filled with billions upon billions of people of all races, cultures and backgrounds, there won't be any negative stigma attached to who one of the premier human heroes is and what he/she does with his/her personal life? Everybody's hunky dory with whatever?

We see the Citadel and primarily either human-only settlements or alien worlds that have lived with interspecies relations for centuries and centuries. Humans have only been a part of this community for 30 years. Thirty. Years. Racism and ignorance born of fear cannot go away in thirty years. We still can't even get rid of racism in our own society and it's been centuries. Mellinia. And that's with our own people. You don't think the majority of humanity who doesn't live on the Citadel or Omega will have an issue with the face of humanity sleeping with a xeno?

[staindgrey]

FeralEwok wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

FeralEwok wrote...

staindgrey wrote...


What would the world do if they knew Shepard and Lt. Cdr. Williams were gay together?
...So much wasted potential...

I'm not so sure it would be a big deal several hundred years from now. Society is becoming more tolerant of homosexuality. Don't ask don't tell was even repelled just recently.

So add another few hundred years of progressive attitudes towards people's lifestyles, the decline of religion (At least that's what I got from when Ash talked about people think she is a freak) and the more liberal mentality humanity has taken on with relationships, it stands to reason there would not be ramifications of this.

I can see that with aliens, but even then I think it's just a vocal minority that would be upset. It's not something that would shake the foundation of the galaxy nor have any impact on the war against the reapers.

Your scope is too narrow. It's not a matter of the "gay" part being wrong.

What about the accusations that Ashley has only risen in rank due to Shepard's feelings for her, that it all started because of that? What would that do for her psyche, when she's tried so hard to clear her family's name on her own?

What about the issue of fraternization? Especially considering the "gay" part, I find it hard to believe that even in less than 200 years there won't still be homophobes in the military or in government claiming that romances like that can kill squads.

What about the squad itself, seeing two women of equal rank also sharing a relationship? There would undoubtedly be drama regarding command and superiority compounded by the romance.

Then there are always religious zealots, who will continue to be around for the next two centuries. You don't think it'll break Ash's faithful heart to get hate messages from "faithful" people condemning her?

Again. SO much potential. And instead all we'll get is flirt and one or two compassionate, isolated moments.

I didn't say that there would not be a single person alive who would object. There is always going to be people who disagree with that lifestyle. Simply saying that it would more than likely be less taboo and there would be less of a chance people would be up in arms about it. Squad wise no one has appeared to be that fundamental or outspoken about s/s relationships.

I don't think it needs to be in there. It's drama for the sake of drama and completely unnecessary because this game is not about a romance. Nor is about the conflict within a romance.

I agree with you totally that there could be much more and there is alot of emotional issues that could come up. It would most certainly give more depth to relationships, but the pacing of the story would suffer if the game turned more into a soap opera.

This wouldn't be concentrating on them. It would be another plot hook from decisions, just like everything else. The game isn't about Conrad Verner either; it's about Reapers. But you can bet he'll be in there.

Having something as simple as a reporter calling Shepard out on his/her choice of a mate would enrich the idea of the romance meaning something. Or a group of humans mentioning that they "know you like drell ass", which creates conflict that otherwise wouldn't be there, or a minor part in a conversation where Ashley, still unsure about what religion says about gays (since it would still be an issue in places, I guarantee it), shows weakness and offers a chance for character development due to outside circumstances. Or even Liara bringing up the prospect of children and basically guaging Shepard as a "father figure".

None of this would take a lot of time, effort or plot. Just little things. Little things that currently don't exist. At all.

[HolyAvenger]

staindgrey wrote...


So you're telling me that in a galaxy filled with billions upon billions of people of all races, cultures and backgrounds, there won't be any negative stigma attached to who one of the premier human heroes is and what he/she does with his/her personal life? Everybody's hunky dory with whatever?

We see the Citadel and primarily either human-only settlements or alien worlds that have lived with interspecies relations for centuries and centuries. Humans have only been a part of this community for 30 years. Thirty. Years. Racism and ignorance born of fear cannot go away in thirty years. We still can't even get rid of racism in our own society and it's been centuries. Mellinia. And that's with our own people. You don't think the majority of humanity who doesn't live on the Citadel or Omega will have an issue with the face of humanity sleeping with a xeno?

*shrugs* Maybe there would be, maybe there wouldn't. What we've seen in the game seems to show a fairly broadminded view of cross-species relationships, but then we've mostly spent time on alien worlds rather than human ones.

I'd certainly like to think in another 80 or so years the notion of a stigma attached to homosexual relationships would certainly have largely died away. As for the inter-species aspect...that's a more interesting variant and I'd like to see some comment on it in-game but nothing major. The 30-year thing is a bit of a short time frankly but humanity seems to onboard with the rest of the process including playing galactic poltiics and integrating into the galactic community so why should this particular facet of things be any slower? Just going with the flow of the ME'verse vibe. Finally, even though people may hold some of these views about Shepard and whoever s/he's doing, who would say anything to his or her face about it? And when has Shep had the free time to take in people's opinions about whatever the hell they've been doing? Even commentators would probably focus on small matters like saving the Citadel or blowing mass relays as opposed to whom s/he chose to shag in the privacy of their own quarters. In fact all of your points assume that the knowledge of Shepard's relationships from the games is public. Why or how would that even be the case...

Basically I think the romances should stay "light". I'm not playing a dating sim, I'm playing an action RPG. I'm not interested in a dialogue-heavy storyline navigating the intricacies of cross-species relationships detracting from my time saving the galaxy from the Reapers.

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 24 février 2012 - 06:36 .

[FeralEwok]

staindgrey wrote...

This wouldn't be concentrating on them. It would be another plot hook from decisions, just like everything else. The game isn't about Conrad Verner either; it's about Reapers. But you can bet he'll be in there.

Having something as simple as a reporter calling Shepard out on his/her choice of a mate would enrich the idea of the romance meaning something. Or a group of humans mentioning that they "know you like drell ass", which creates conflict that otherwise wouldn't be there, or a minor part in a conversation where Ashley, still unsure about what religion says about gays (since it would still be an issue in places, I guarantee it), shows weakness and offers a chance for character development due to outside circumstances. Or even Liara bringing up the prospect of children and basically guaging Shepard as a "father figure".

None of this would take a lot of time, effort or plot. Just little things. Little things that currently don't exist. At all.

Fair enough, little things would help beef up the sense that Shepard is engaged in a relationship. For me personally though I'd rather the conflict be focused on Shepard and mate trying to survive a war and not have it be all about what the rest of the galaxy (or in this case a minority) thinks about them.

[staindgrey]

HolyAvenger wrote...

staindgrey wrote...


So you're telling me that in a galaxy filled with billions upon billions of people of all races, cultures and backgrounds, there won't be any negative stigma attached to who one of the premier human heroes is and what he/she does with his/her personal life? Everybody's hunky dory with whatever?

We see the Citadel and primarily either human-only settlements or alien worlds that have lived with interspecies relations for centuries and centuries. Humans have only been a part of this community for 30 years. Thirty. Years. Racism and ignorance born of fear cannot go away in thirty years. We still can't even get rid of racism in our own society and it's been centuries. Mellinia. And that's with our own people. You don't think the majority of humanity who doesn't live on the Citadel or Omega will have an issue with the face of humanity sleeping with a xeno?

*shrugs* Maybe there would be, maybe there wouldn't. What we've seen in the game seems to show a fairly broadminded view of cross-species relationships, but then we've mostly spent time on alien worlds rather than human ones.

I'd certainly like to think in another 80 or so years the notion of a stigma attached to homosexual relationships would certainly have largely died away. As for the inter-species aspect...that's a more interesting variant and I'd like to see some comment on it in-game but nothing major. The 30-year thing is a bit of a short time frankly but humanity seems to onboard with the rest of the process including playing galactic poltiics and integrating into the galactic community so why should this particular facet of things be any slower? Just going with the flow of the ME'verse vibe. Finally, even though people may hold some of these views about Shepard and whoever s/he's doing, who would say anything to his or her face about it? And when has Shep had the free time to take in people's opinions about whatever the hell they've been doing? Even commentators would probably focus on small matters like saving the Citadel or blowing mass relays as opposed to whom s/he chose to shag in the privacy of their own quarters. In fact all of your points assume that the knowledge of Shepard's relationships from the games is public. Why or how would that even be the case...

Basically I think the romances should stay "light". I'm not playing a dating sim, I'm playing an action RPG. I'm not interested in a dialogue-heavy storyline navigating the intricacies of cross-species relationships detracting from my time saving the galaxy from the Reapers.

Dude, not everyone's on-board. Your own crew in ME1 is uncomfortable having aliens on-board. There are racists against humans on the Citadel. And the main reason for homosexual and cross-species relationships being a constant issue is the idea of family. If you had a child, and that child willingly chose a spouse with whom he/she could not make a child, that would be a burden. No matter what you say now, or what you convince yourself, or how much you love that child and his/her adopted child... It would be an issue. Always will be in the back of your mind. That's just internal; we have an inherent desire to carry on our legacy, regardless of open-mindedness.

I'm too tired to keep posting tonight, but I want to make something clear: I don't play Bioware games for romances. I don't even play games for romance. I go on actual dates for that. My entire point in these posts isn't to turn ME into a "dating sim", so please, think of this differently. ME2 was about stopping the Collectors as soon as possible, right? Yet we still had time to delve into the intricacies of the morality of the Genophage, the stigma of purebloods, the complexities of cross-species and cross-culture relationships in NPCs, the burden of the Ardat Yakshi, the history of the drell people and their religion, the political intrigue of the quarians and the morality of their treatment of the geth...

It's an RPG. It's basically a life in another story. What I crave is for these romances to actually play a part in the world around us, like everything else. I want to learn about the society of 2186 through the lens of the romance I choose. I want to see conflict, like any good story. Yes, we need to fight the Reapers, but if that's ALL we're doing, this isn't an RPG. It's a shooter.

Gears is nothing but killing Locust. Dragon Age is more than killing Darkspawn. Killzone is about killing Helghast. Mass Effect is more than killing Reapers.

I really, sincerely hope people see that point. ME isn't and never will be a dating sim; stop using that as an excuse for the lack of any social intrigue regarding ME romances.

[AgitatedLemon]

staindgrey wrote...

Gears is nothing but killing Locust.

Without digging deep...

No, it's not. It's a bit more than just "gorilla man haz gun, gorilla man shoot gorilla monster".

[staindgrey]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

Gears is nothing but killing Locust.

Without digging deep...

No, it's not. It's a bit more than just "gorilla man haz gun, gorilla man shoot gorilla monster".

Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge Gears fan. There's a lot of stuff in there about the state of humanity in devasation (I love the concept of the Stranded) and what truly makes someone evil, considering what the Locust's implied origins are.

But in the GAME, all we do is kill Locust, then watch cutscenes. The rest is implied. In ME3, we won't just be running here, killing Reapers, then running there and killing Reapers. We'll be visiting worlds, talking with people, mining for resources, doing side quests, building relationships... THAT was my point. Not a pretentious "shooters have no story" remark.

Seriously, I need to stop posting tonight. Everything's coming off the wrong way lol.

[HolyAvenger]

Eh OK, I'll bite again.

1) Yes there's still some degree of prejudice against aliens that still exists. However the presentation of that prejudice is shown essentially to be bigoted and without basis- the crewmember most rabidly anti-alien on your crew repents his views, while the closest thing to a bigot in your own squad will call out racism/xenophobia present in the anti-alien political party you get to interact with. Its not really all that "deep" to deal with this kind of prejudice in game. Herp derp some idiot bigots think you're doing it wrong. I'm a brown-skinned guy. When I was dating my (white) ex I'm sure some people would've thought askance at that, but it doesn't really present any moral dilemma to me and injecting it into the game wouldn't do all that much for RP'ing experience.

2) The child thing. Interesting point, especially given what we find out about Miranda in LotSB. Here I can't point to anything really in human nature but to say that there are a significant (and) growing number of childless couples in the world, and any number which find ways around whatever biological barriers that may be in place to conception for them. I don't know why the same can't apply to the game world. But you're right, perhaps in some romances this should be at least a point of conversation...it sort of has been for Shep/Liara, it probably should be brought up for Shep/Miranda and Shep/Tali.

3) The romances.Well sure, the romances add an extra dimension that you can role-play your character through and I'm all for that. What I'm not all for is the romances becoming an important part of the role-playing experience- I find that trite and cliched. My characters are not defined by the choices they make with regards to the people they date, but through the choices they make regarding the fundamental questions in the world that they come face to face with like the genophage or the rachni. I think to equate the importance of the romances as a roleplaying factor to something like those cheapens those choices and places too heavy a burden on the romance...the romance is simply a small part of my character, and something that I have personally come to almost be annoyed with for getting the fanbase so worked up to the detriment of the larger in game story and choices.

[P38 ace]

Looks i hit a nerve i was not intening too, i was not saying that the romances are an inigrule part to the plot line, I still like RL people, and i want to have an Actual relationship with a RL woman (trying to find a good one is proving difficult) , but that does not mean i can't enjoy a Very well done aspect of a game, or invest some emotions into the characters i like.  but with all the other RPG's out their, ME does the Best job at accually trying to make them work and feel legitamant, (have not played DA) I have played the KOTOR series and the romances in there where "MEH" and did not add any level to the actual game,

ME does and a lot of people have invested emotions into the characters and romace subplots, just look at all the fan art out there, How much fan are do you see from KOTOR, and DA is not even as big as ME.

Having the hole thing just end with nothing, like KOTOR did would just be insulting, to the Fans, the Deves that worked on that aspect, the voice actors, and to the prowess of the chacters themselfs.

Give us something at lest, it don't have to be a cut scene just give closer to what most people consiter a very imortant aspect of this series

Modifié par P38 ace, 25 février 2012 - 09:20 .

[Arppis]

How about breakup after some gooooood sex?

That seems much better than being chained.

[RVallant]

Marriage and kids, cheers!

>_> But I suppose it won't happen seeing how they need a blanket ending. =(