380 réponses à ce sujet

[Anthadlas]

My simple reasoning behind this is that the statues on Ilos and all around Prothean space were dedicated to the Prothean gods, modern day species presumed that these were the Protheans and would have written this in books and on the extranet.

When Shepard was viewing the beacons in the first game he didn't have the cipher or hadn't had it long depending on the order you completed the game. Due to these visions being in his head his mind was trying to fill in the information that he didn't understand or was missing using his own knowledge.

In the second game however after having had a few years to get his head around it the cipher showed him a more accurate version of the visions as his mind had had time to analyse all the prothean information.

Modifié par Wraith 02, 24 février 2012 - 05:10 .

[Henriks]

The Art of Mass Effect has an explanation: the statues in Illos were visually ambiguous because they never knew how much of the prothean we would see in the trilogy.

So, after ME2 we already know collectors were protheans, so the protheans were modelled after collectors.

It means in ME1 they did know how the protheans looked like, so we were never told the statues in Illos were protheans.

Modifié par Henriks, 24 février 2012 - 05:13 .

[Armass81]

Henriks wrote...

The Art of Mass Effect has an explanation: the statues in Illos were visually ambiguous because they never knew how much of the prothean we would see in the trilogy.

So, after ME2 we already know collectors were protheans, so the protheans were modelled after collectors.

It means in ME1 they did know how the protheans looked like, so we were never told the statues in Illos were protheans.

Blurred images in the visions and no statues would have worked better. Then you can throw in afterwards whatever kind of look you want, as long as it is bipedal. You dont make an octopus man statue and show the same guys in a vision then later go and say "yeah that wouldnt work, lets change it, theyll buy the game anyway", that is a clear design direction, not ambigious. Sorry Bioware, we are not stupid!

I always had this creepy feeling and really stopped to look at the strange statues the first time I played the game and was on Ilos. Now I learned that I dont even know what species they are. Are they Inusannon, a subjected prothean species? What the hell are they?! Cause obviously they arent prothean... Its stupid. And ill be reminded of this thing every time I play the first game and pass those statues on Ilos from now on... Thanks.

Modifié par Armass81, 24 février 2012 - 05:31 .

[Chuvvy]

Everyone, say it with me. Retro. Active. Continuity.

[BentOrgy]

I love how people are saying that, because Ilos was colonized by Inusannon, that's who the statues represent. Another thing I find interesting is; before the script was leaked, on of the biggest excuses was "The statues could be stylized versions of the Protheans," if that works for them, why not the Inusannon?

Regardless, the statues are not confirmed as the Inusannon, because they could have been built afterwards. I've talked with another user about the matter, and he gave me an excerpt from another poster regarding an old draft of the script, which I'll post here;

They were a primitive race that the Prothean empire conquered, similar to how the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and Incas in real life. The reason why the Conduit's research lab on Ilos was not detected by the Reapers 50,000 years ago was because the Protheans disguised it as the ruins of this primitive race, a race that the Reapers assumed was already destroyed.

Now, its not known if this user actually possessed such a script, or if he did, the script hasn't been changed, but it is another explanation. So until ME3 arrives, the Ilos Statues may or may not be Inusannon.

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

For who still thinking that the statue on Ilos is Prothean:

how if i assume that BioWare 'Clever' enough to make us believe that the vision of ME is Prothean races.

By the time BioWare finished ME2 and 3 and showing the 'true' Prothean looks like as a plan that the fans think BioWare made it as Retcon for prothean truly looks like.

or (By specualtion to this one)

How if we assume that the Prothean Vision on ME about Ilos is just a knowledge for each Surviving prothean to take refugee on that planet called Ilos for Fooling the Reapers mind.

By the Time Reapers get there, they already thought that they already kill or eradicating all previous Ilosian species and ignore them without truly knowing that deep inside the Ruin city there is still much Prothean which hide take refugee there and taking a cryosleep for a very long time waiting until they think that Reapers already leave.

And Surely Reapers is not idiot. By leaving some indoctrinated agent of Prothean member in other planet to lure out some True pre-indoctrinated Prothean, As their plan Successfull.


So, Any surviving member of Prothean on the next cycle which still alive could received what happened to their kind. And after a few century some Top Prothean Scientist waking up and try to fnd out how to stop the reapers from invading every century by building the conduit, alter the keepers signal and they stay there as they died in starvation.

until here there is major Spoiler regarding to Javik story so i won't spoiler. Until the Commander Shepard Which has strong will accidently received Prothean Vision and think that as 'Warning against the Reapers'.

For me i speculated that Vigil created between the first extinction to the next cycle extinction because Vigil can explain how to stop the Reapers as i said before that the Prothean beacon is likely a message to take refugee from the reapers rather than fighting the reapers. because in the vision even slowed down i didn't see single images of 'Conduit'

but How Saren and Sovereign know about 'the conduit' itself if that was top secret even the Reapers can't possibly know? My speculation is one of indoctrinee getting information but i don't know for sure who inform them.

Many specualtion that can be explained but also dissapear in the same way.

Does the Vanguard of destruction also fooling around silently (even it has KM long) for getting information? I think the secret about conduit took enough time for making reapers Pissed off. until the event of ME 1?

Modifié par 4ut0b4hn5child27, 26 février 2012 - 01:17 .

[graciegrace]

There is nothing as of now that explicitly states the Protheans are even the civilization that built the statues on Ilos. We know they had a facility there, but we don't know for certain that they built it, it could be a remnant from an earlier civilization the Protheans found.

[AtreiyaN7]

Having seen the art book mentioned repeatedly now, does that mean the OP sort of has his answer? And I guess the Collectors are actually pretty close to Protheans visually after all.

[Megaton_Hope]

Nodnol88 wrote...

I think it's probably realistically retcon-able, because imagine if the tentacle-faced race were the brains behind things, and were less hardy and formidable. Our new Prothean represents the muscle of the empire, and are still intelligent, but are more wide-spread then the other race and thus more commonly known in terms of evidence left behind, IE genetic material. The Reaper's would have little use for the tentacle people, hence Husks, but the hardiness of the other race appeals to them enough that they rewrote them genetically.

I can think of an easier way than that. Given, the Collectors are clearly insectoid in form. Exoskeletal and all that. The statues/vision aliens, apparently squishy.

There are a couple possibilities for that actually being one race. May be a really unusual (from an Earther perspective) form of gender dimorphism. I mean, look at Angler Fish - the male's practically a vestigial limb. Or, there's polymorphism - though who knows what strange functions the squishy ones would serve. (Maybe they're drones that hang around the hive and die after mating with the queen, I dunno.) Carpenter ants have a bunch of castes that fill different functions and are different shapes and sizes; this could be extended to a completely different life cycle and an extended larval phase, maybe. See:

http://en.wikipedia....otl.27s_neoteny

So, it doesn't really HAVE to be a separate species. Aliens can be weird.

[Nathan Redgrave]

VeR0se wrote...

Doesn't look like a Prothean, DLC character looks like a Collector with clothes.

And yet there are key differences. The Prothean squadmate is taller, more upright... has a mouth and nostrils, overall looks more like a person than a drone.

It makes the transition from Prothean to Collector seem more believable, to me.

[GnusmasTHX]

BentOrgy wrote...

I love how people are saying that, because Ilos was colonized by Inusannon, that's who the statues represent. Another thing I find interesting is; before the script was leaked, on of the biggest excuses was "The statues could be stylized versions of the Protheans," if that works for them, why not the Inusannon?

Regardless, the statues are not confirmed as the Inusannon, because they could have been built afterwards. I've talked with another user about the matter, and he gave me an excerpt from another poster regarding an old draft of the script, which I'll post here;

They were a primitive race that the Prothean empire conquered, similar to how the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and Incas in real life. The reason why the Conduit's research lab on Ilos was not detected by the Reapers 50,000 years ago was because the Protheans disguised it as the ruins of this primitive race, a race that the Reapers assumed was already destroyed.

Now, its not known if this user actually possessed such a script, or if he did, the script hasn't been changed, but it is another explanation. So until ME3 arrives, the Ilos Statues may or may not be Inusannon.

That's nothing. They are Inusannon. Prothean squadmate says it outright.

(Well actually, they're pre-Retcon Protheans, but in-universe, I mean...)

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 26 février 2012 - 03:06 .

[BentOrgy]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

I love how people are saying that, because Ilos was colonized by Inusannon, that's who the statues represent. Another thing I find interesting is; before the script was leaked, on of the biggest excuses was "The statues could be stylized versions of the Protheans," if that works for them, why not the Inusannon?

Regardless, the statues are not confirmed as the Inusannon, because they could have been built afterwards. I've talked with another user about the matter, and he gave me an excerpt from another poster regarding an old draft of the script, which I'll post here;

They were a primitive race that the Prothean empire conquered, similar to how the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and Incas in real life. The reason why the Conduit's research lab on Ilos was not detected by the Reapers 50,000 years ago was because the Protheans disguised it as the ruins of this primitive race, a race that the Reapers assumed was already destroyed.

Now, its not known if this user actually possessed such a script, or if he did, the script hasn't been changed, but it is another explanation. So until ME3 arrives, the Ilos Statues may or may not be Inusannon.

That's nothing. They are Inusannon. Prothean squadmate says it outright.

(Well actually, they're pre-Retcon Protheans, but in-universe, I mean...)

No, he doesn't. He mentions that Ilos was built upon the foundations of "Those who came before, the Inusannon." He never mentions the statues.

[GnusmasTHX]

BentOrgy wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

I love how people are saying that, because Ilos was colonized by Inusannon, that's who the statues represent. Another thing I find interesting is; before the script was leaked, on of the biggest excuses was "The statues could be stylized versions of the Protheans," if that works for them, why not the Inusannon?

Regardless, the statues are not confirmed as the Inusannon, because they could have been built afterwards. I've talked with another user about the matter, and he gave me an excerpt from another poster regarding an old draft of the script, which I'll post here;

They were a primitive race that the Prothean empire conquered, similar to how the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and Incas in real life. The reason why the Conduit's research lab on Ilos was not detected by the Reapers 50,000 years ago was because the Protheans disguised it as the ruins of this primitive race, a race that the Reapers assumed was already destroyed.

Now, its not known if this user actually possessed such a script, or if he did, the script hasn't been changed, but it is another explanation. So until ME3 arrives, the Ilos Statues may or may not be Inusannon.

That's nothing. They are Inusannon. Prothean squadmate says it outright.

(Well actually, they're pre-Retcon Protheans, but in-universe, I mean...)

No, he doesn't. He mentions that Ilos was built upon the foundations of "Those who came before, the Inusannon." He never mentions the statues.

But... The reason that dialog is in the game, or the script, at least... is to mask the Retcon. Otherwise why place the line there at all?

"It was said we had cities there, built on the ruins of a civilization before us, the Inusannon." Is pretty, duh...

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 26 février 2012 - 03:22 .

[BentOrgy]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

But... The reason that dialog is in the game, or the script, at least... is to mask the Retcon. Otherwise why place the line there at all?

That's probably its purpose, but its a poor one if that's all they do; because it still doesn't explain the visions in ME1, the Statues related to the Visions, the Vision, Codex entry and Genesis in ME2.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 26 février 2012 - 03:23 .

[GnusmasTHX]

BentOrgy wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...



No, he doesn't. He mentions that Ilos was built upon the foundations of "Those who came before, the Inusannon." He never mentions the statues.

But... The reason that dialog is in the game, or the script, at least... is to mask the Retcon. Otherwise why place the line there at all?

That's probably its purpose, but its a poor one if that's all they do; because it still doesn't explain the visions in ME1, the Statues related to the Visions, the Vision, Codex entry and Genesis in ME2.

Well that's always been the case. No Retcon can make sense of the vision unless the Retcon was, "The Protheans were actually just stupi, and made a confusing as hell video."

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 26 février 2012 - 03:24 .

[SilentCO1]

Prothean looks a lot like the Collectors, but not the top one.

[fatalfeline]

I always figured the tentacle statues were religious figures or something like Prothean gods.

Modifié par fatalfeline, 26 février 2012 - 03:32 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Well that's always been the case. No Retcon can make sense of the vision unless the Retcon was, "The Protheans were actually just stupi, and made a confusing as hell video."

Or, perhaps, they weren't the first ones to leave behind a warning.

There. I came up with that excuse on the fly. Easy. I guess I'm just awesome like that.

[Aulis Vaara]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

I can think of an easier way than that. Given, the Collectors are clearly insectoid in form. Exoskeletal and all that. The statues/vision aliens, apparently squishy.

There are a couple possibilities for that actually being one race. May be a really unusual (from an Earther perspective) form of gender dimorphism. I mean, look at Angler Fish - the male's practically a vestigial limb. Or, there's polymorphism - though who knows what strange functions the squishy ones would serve. (Maybe they're drones that hang around the hive and die after mating with the queen, I dunno.) Carpenter ants have a bunch of castes that fill different functions and are different shapes and sizes; this could be extended to a completely different life cycle and an extended larval phase, maybe. See:

http://en.wikipedia....otl.27s_neoteny

So, it doesn't really HAVE to be a separate species. Aliens can be weird.

This would be all kinds of awesome, but even I know they would never go with this. Too complex.

I'm personally really not interested in Prothy now, I wanted the squishy tentacly thing instead. Might've been worth the ten bucks too, if he was actually from the race that came before the race that came before.

Just imagine Liara going: "A living breathing Prothean!"
And the non-Prothean replying: "No!"

Modifié par Aulis Vaara, 26 février 2012 - 03:49 .

[vonSlash]

The ME3 Prothean looks fine in comparison to the Collectors, but neither one matches well with ME1.

So the real retcon here was between ME1 and ME2, not between ME2 and ME3.

[BentOrgy]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...



No, he doesn't. He mentions that Ilos was built upon the foundations of "Those who came before, the Inusannon." He never mentions the statues.

But... The reason that dialog is in the game, or the script, at least... is to mask the Retcon. Otherwise why place the line there at all?

That's probably its purpose, but its a poor one if that's all they do; because it still doesn't explain the visions in ME1, the Statues related to the Visions, the Vision, Codex entry and Genesis in ME2.

Well that's always been the case. No Retcon can make sense of the vision unless the Retcon was, "The Protheans were actually just stupi, and made a confusing as hell video."

Exactly; its so confusing why Bioware did it this way; it would have been easier to make Prothy an Ilos-Statue with a human skeleton. (For lazy animation purposes.) Then they could have easily kept their own continuity, without having to resort to all of this half-baked nonsense.

[GnusmasTHX]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Well that's always been the case. No Retcon can make sense of the vision unless the Retcon was, "The Protheans were actually just stupi, and made a confusing as hell video."

Or, perhaps, they weren't the first ones to leave behind a warning.

There. I came up with that excuse on the fly. Easy. I guess I'm just awesome like that.

How does that address the Protheans creating a warning of another, perhaps extinct, race turning into Collector's?

The Retcon I would've used is if the statues and visions were forms of "failed" Prothean husks. Because of whatever disposition they had that made them not be able to form full Reapers, the husk process reduced them into skinny, skeletal things with tentacles/tubes falling out their mouths, rather than enhancing their features to make them apt killing machines like the husk process typically does with other species.

So the Retcon would be that the statues and visions were never Protheans, but husks, transforming into Collector's. Which really, makes more sense. "This is the end product of the Reaper genetic/synthetic augmentations". 

It makes a lot more sense than either:

1. The statues are not Protheans, they are an extinct race that used to live on Ilos. But the Protheans still created messages of THEM turning into Collector's.

2. The statues are a species under the Prothean umbrella name, but not THE species the Prothean Empire is named after. But still, the Protheans created a message that shows another species becoming Collector's.

I don't care enough to remember which BioWare landed on.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 26 février 2012 - 04:15 .

[BentOrgy]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Well that's always been the case. No Retcon can make sense of the vision unless the Retcon was, "The Protheans were actually just stupi, and made a confusing as hell video."

Or, perhaps, they weren't the first ones to leave behind a warning.

There. I came up with that excuse on the fly. Easy. I guess I'm just awesome like that.

How does that address the Protheans creating a warning of another, perhaps extinct, race turning into Collector's?

The Retcon I would've used is if the statues and visions were forms of "failed" Prothean husks. Because of whatever disposition they had that made them not be able to form full Reapers, the husk process reduced them into skinny, skeletal things with tentacles/tubes falling out their mouths, rather than enhancing their features to make them apt killing machines like the husk process typically does with other species.

So the Retcon would be that the statues and visions were never Protheans, but husks, transforming into Collector's. Which really, makes more sense. "This is the end product of the Reaper genetic/synthetic augmentations". 

It makes a lot more sense than either:

1. The statues are not Protheans, they are an extinct race that used to live on Ilos. But the Protheans still created messages of THEM turning into Collector's.

2. The statues are a species under the Prothean umbrella name, but not THE species the Prothean Empire is named after. But still, the Protheans created a message that shows another species becoming Collector's.

I don't care enough to remember which BioWare landed on.

I think the idea of them being husks makes a little more sense than what we have now, but why would they be positioned the way they are in ME1? The statues look fairly important to me, like they were either deities or important Protheans from their history.

Unless the chairs they are sitting in were early dragons teeth? Still kind of a stretch, but still better than what Bioware has done.

[GnusmasTHX]

I'd say half of it was just artistic license, the Protheans built the statues throughout the generations it took for the Reapers to kill them because they were sentimental.

[Agamo45]

It's a retcon, put in place because the writers apparently think we're too stupid to follow the lore.