380 réponses à ce sujet

[BentOrgy]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I'd say half of it was just artistic license, the Protheans built the statues throughout the generations it took for the Reapers to kill them because they were sentimental.

Why would they create statues of husks? Wouldn't they want to honor how they actually looked?

[Nathan Redgrave]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Well that's always been the case. No Retcon can make sense of the vision unless the Retcon was, "The Protheans were actually just stupi, and made a confusing as hell video."

Or, perhaps, they weren't the first ones to leave behind a warning.

There. I came up with that excuse on the fly. Easy. I guess I'm just awesome like that.

How does that address the Protheans creating a warning of another, perhaps extinct, race turning into Collector's?

Dude, the Prothean visions are so seizuretastic and trippy that they can be interpreted almost any way you want them to be. Like Nostradamus, only in visual form.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 26 février 2012 - 05:18 .

[BentOrgy]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Well that's always been the case. No Retcon can make sense of the vision unless the Retcon was, "The Protheans were actually just stupi, and made a confusing as hell video."

Or, perhaps, they weren't the first ones to leave behind a warning.

There. I came up with that excuse on the fly. Easy. I guess I'm just awesome like that.

How does that address the Protheans creating a warning of another, perhaps extinct, race turning into Collector's?

Dude, the Prothean visions are so seizuretastic and trippy that they can be interpreted almost any way you want them to be. Like Nostradamus, only in visual form.

A bunch of Tentacle-Beard people being fried by reapers is pretty clear, no matter how you look at it.

[WarGriffin]

It's a Simple retcon.

Maybe they thought the Cthulu's cousin tentacle look wasn't "cool" -hell they have problems with Female turians why not- and in the original vision you can tell the Protheans are the Tentacle people so stop trying to explain/justify the retcon... I already get enough of that from the Warcraft lore

-I forgot the Eredar predate the Dranei, whoops my bad, just trying to make a cool new race guys - Chris Metzen

[E-Type XR]

I suspect Javrik will have quite a bit of dialogue about this.

[GunMoth]

:x I actually really liked the solid black / dark coloring + samurai armor + accent. Art historians tend to reference a lot of Egyptian statues (being done in Basalt lava rock - usually all solid black/dark dusty grey as well as the stylistic "tense" posture of some of the statues) as a symbol for their culture's "permanence" (climate wise, settlement wise. Couldn't afford to move much. Had to stay near water.) The fact that the artists went with something that looked similar made me laugh because the Protheans have gone through a significant amount of change. I LOVE the new direction because of the symbolic irony I suppose?

But it could have just been a lucky break, though I doubt it because the voice actor has somewhat of a Nigerian accent.

[atheelogos]

@OP read the description in the artbook. They go into it there. The pics should be on the wiki

[ApuLunas]

i thought they are civilized, but they are just bugs.

[atheelogos]

nvm I don't think I can post that here. Just check the wiki folks. 

Modifié par atheelogos, 26 février 2012 - 07:54 .

[Ivoryhammer]

Explain how the Quinari grew horns, changed eye colours, and look less human in DA2.

[Chubark]

Ivoryhammer wrote...

Explain how the Quinari grew horns, changed eye colours, and look less human in DA2.

Writers explained it away by 'non-horned Qunari' are a rare genetic abnomality, and the horned ones are the norm.

[Trickybam]

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

 I know this has been talk about before during ME2's time . . . .but please can someone explain to me how prothean
images from ME1 show them as looking like this :



We know from ME2 that the Reapers altered the appearence and DNA of the Protheans. . . so you get what is the collectors :


So now in ME3 we find that the DLC is a Prothean which looks like:


So the question is how  did they go from the top pic to the bottom pic . . . ? :blink:

looks like they wanted to make them look more like the Collectors to explain their gradual mutarion by the reapers. I think it looks great.

or maybe they were created by a Protheon Picasso

Modifié par Trickybam, 26 février 2012 - 08:46 .

[Weskerr]

The retcon explanation is unconvincing. The old buildings we see on Ilos are at least 50,000 years old, and yet we're supposed to believe that  there are multiple pre-Prothean statues that depict a pre-Prothean  sentient race scattered around Illos that are still intact - statues that are far older than 50,000 years? It is hard enough to believe that there are 50,000 year old intact statues. Statues that are probably hundreds of thousands of years old which are still intact is beyond credible.

Modifié par Weskerr, 26 février 2012 - 09:00 .

[Chubark]

Weskerr wrote...

The retcon explanation is unconvincing. The old buildings we see on Ilos are at least 50,000 years old, and yet we're supposed to believe that  there are multiple pre-Prothean statues that depict a pre-Prothean  sentient race scattered around Illos that are still intact - statues that are far older than 50,000 years? It is hard enough to believe that there are 50,000 year old intact statues. Statues that are probably hundreds of thousands of years old which are still intact is beyond credible.

Let me introduce you to the Venus of Willendorf.

http://en.wikipedia....s_of_Willendorf

A statue carved by primitive man almost 25,000 years ago, still remarkably intact.
If a statue carved by primitives can last that long and still be that intact, what about an interstellar species making statues out of metal?

[Weskerr]

Chubark wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

The retcon explanation is unconvincing. The old buildings we see on Ilos are at least 50,000 years old, and yet we're supposed to believe that  there are multiple pre-Prothean statues that depict a pre-Prothean  sentient race scattered around Illos that are still intact - statues that are far older than 50,000 years? It is hard enough to believe that there are 50,000 year old intact statues. Statues that are probably hundreds of thousands of years old which are still intact is beyond credible.

Let me introduce you to the Venus of Willendorf.

http://en.wikipedia....s_of_Willendorf

A statue carved by primitive man almost 25,000 years ago, still remarkably intact.
If a statue carved by primitives can last that long and still be that intact, what about an interstellar species making statues out of metal?

Taken directly from the source you provided: After a wide variety of proposed dates, following a revised analysis of the stratigraphy of its site in 1990, the figure has been estimated to have been carved 24,000–22,000 BCE.

The "figure" they found - notice how it's not considered a full sized statue - is 24,000 - 26,000 years old. It is at least 25,000 years short of the multiple full-sized statues  found intact on Illos (if the retcon is not considered) and hundreds of thousands of years younger - maybe even millions of years - if the retcon is considered.

[Megaton_Hope]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

This would be all kinds of awesome, but even I know they would never go with this. Too complex.

I'm personally really not interested in Prothy now, I wanted the squishy tentacly thing instead. Might've been worth the ten bucks too, if he was actually from the race that came before the race that came before.

Just imagine Liara going: "A living breathing Prothean!"
And the non-Prothean replying: "No!"

That'd have their canon all tied in knots.

Might as well say it was a disguise. He's actually a Volus in a complicated exo-suit. He heard Collectors were "in" this season.

[Chubark]

Weskerr wrote...

Chubark wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

The retcon explanation is unconvincing. The old buildings we see on Ilos are at least 50,000 years old, and yet we're supposed to believe that  there are multiple pre-Prothean statues that depict a pre-Prothean  sentient race scattered around Illos that are still intact - statues that are far older than 50,000 years? It is hard enough to believe that there are 50,000 year old intact statues. Statues that are probably hundreds of thousands of years old which are still intact is beyond credible.

Let me introduce you to the Venus of Willendorf.

http://en.wikipedia....s_of_Willendorf

A statue carved by primitive man almost 25,000 years ago, still remarkably intact.
If a statue carved by primitives can last that long and still be that intact, what about an interstellar species making statues out of metal?

Taken directly from the source you provided: After a wide variety of proposed dates, following a revised analysis of the stratigraphy of its site in 1990, the figure has been estimated to have been carved 24,000–22,000 BCE.

The "figure" they found - notice how it's not considered a full sized statue - is 24,000 - 26,000 years old. It is at least 25,000 years short of the multiple full-sized statues  found intact on Illos (if the retcon is not considered) and hundreds of thousands of years younger - maybe even millions of years - if the retcon is considered.

First off, the entire point of bringing up the Venus of Willendorf was to give an example how if a creation of people who had barely grasped fire and tools could last that long and still be intact, think of how long creations of a species tens of thousands of years more advanced than primitive humans could last. Even look at the Reapers, for criminey's sake, some of them must be -billions- of years old.

And second, the Inusannon, as it is suggested, existed the second-to-last extiction cycle, as the Protheans were a part of the last one, and the codex for Eingana, the planet, says they and another species battled for that planet 125,000 years ago. That means the statues are, at -most- 150,000 years old.

[Weskerr]

Chubark wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Chubark wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

The retcon explanation is unconvincing. The old buildings we see on Ilos are at least 50,000 years old, and yet we're supposed to believe that  there are multiple pre-Prothean statues that depict a pre-Prothean  sentient race scattered around Illos that are still intact - statues that are far older than 50,000 years? It is hard enough to believe that there are 50,000 year old intact statues. Statues that are probably hundreds of thousands of years old which are still intact is beyond credible.

Let me introduce you to the Venus of Willendorf.

http://en.wikipedia....s_of_Willendorf

A statue carved by primitive man almost 25,000 years ago, still remarkably intact.
If a statue carved by primitives can last that long and still be that intact, what about an interstellar species making statues out of metal?

Taken directly from the source you provided: After a wide variety of proposed dates, following a revised analysis of the stratigraphy of its site in 1990, the figure has been estimated to have been carved 24,000–22,000 BCE.

The "figure" they found - notice how it's not considered a full sized statue - is 24,000 - 26,000 years old. It is at least 25,000 years short of the multiple full-sized statues  found intact on Illos (if the retcon is not considered) and hundreds of thousands of years younger - maybe even millions of years - if the retcon is considered.

First off, the entire point of bringing up the Venus of Willendorf was to give an example how if a creation of people who had barely grasped fire and tools could last that long and still be intact, think of how long creations of a species tens of thousands of years more advanced than primitive humans could last. Even look at the Reapers, for criminey's sake, some of them must be -billions- of years old.

And second, the Inusannon, as it is suggested, existed the second-to-last extiction cycle, as the Protheans were a part of the last one, and the codex for Eingana, the planet, says they and another species battled for that planet 125,000 years ago. That means the statues are, at -most- 150,000 years old.

The Reapers are living beings that maintain themselves through the extinction cycle of the Milky Way galaxy and they are super-intelligent. They do not justify the validity of your argument.

The statues found on Illos are non-living, inanimant objects. As far as we know, they don't have self-maintenence systems.

I appreciate your correcting my estimation of their age, but 150,000 years is still a long time - too long - for multiple life-sized statues to be standing intact in the open air. Degradation should have occured through weathering and other means in just a few thousand years.

Modifié par Weskerr, 26 février 2012 - 09:37 .

[Goddy10]

Has anyone stopped to consider the idea that this Prothean in particular was captured by the Reapers, and the process of converting him into a Collector had begun then he managed to somehow escape before the process could be completed?

A long bow I know, but it would explain it.

[LucidStrike]

Chubark wrote...
Even look at the Reapers, for criminey's sake, some of them must be -billions- of years old.

You mean that in the British sense right, because in the best estimate I've founds, millions is an appropriate estimate:

In a message to Shepard, Chorban states his theory that "[the keepers] were engineered
millions of years ago... by the same people who made Sovereign!"

[Chubark]

Weskerr wrote...

Chubark wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Chubark wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

The retcon explanation is unconvincing. The old buildings we see on Ilos are at least 50,000 years old, and yet we're supposed to believe that  there are multiple pre-Prothean statues that depict a pre-Prothean  sentient race scattered around Illos that are still intact - statues that are far older than 50,000 years? It is hard enough to believe that there are 50,000 year old intact statues. Statues that are probably hundreds of thousands of years old which are still intact is beyond credible.

Let me introduce you to the Venus of Willendorf.

http://en.wikipedia....s_of_Willendorf

A statue carved by primitive man almost 25,000 years ago, still remarkably intact.
If a statue carved by primitives can last that long and still be that intact, what about an interstellar species making statues out of metal?

Taken directly from the source you provided: After a wide variety of proposed dates, following a revised analysis of the stratigraphy of its site in 1990, the figure has been estimated to have been carved 24,000–22,000 BCE.

The "figure" they found - notice how it's not considered a full sized statue - is 24,000 - 26,000 years old. It is at least 25,000 years short of the multiple full-sized statues  found intact on Illos (if the retcon is not considered) and hundreds of thousands of years younger - maybe even millions of years - if the retcon is considered.

First off, the entire point of bringing up the Venus of Willendorf was to give an example how if a creation of people who had barely grasped fire and tools could last that long and still be intact, think of how long creations of a species tens of thousands of years more advanced than primitive humans could last. Even look at the Reapers, for criminey's sake, some of them must be -billions- of years old.

And second, the Inusannon, as it is suggested, existed the second-to-last extiction cycle, as the Protheans were a part of the last one, and the codex for Eingana, the planet, says they and another species battled for that planet 125,000 years ago. That means the statues are, at -most- 150,000 years old.

The Reapers are living beings that maintain themselves through the extinction cycle of the Milky Way galaxy and they are super-intelligent. They do not justify the validity of your argument.

The statues found on Illos are non-living, inanimant objects. As far as we know, they don't have self-maintenence systems.

I appreciate your correcting my estimation of their age, but 150,000 years is still a long time - too long - for multiple life-sized statues to be standing intact in the open air. Degradation should have occured through weathering and other means in just a few thousand years.

But the Reapers can still count, because they're non-organic life forms and their bodies are mainly comprised of non-organic parts. Considering how advanced Reapers are in terms of technology, their parts can probably last a very long time without any sort of decay. But the fact is, the Reapers' parts would still decay regardless. Considering it would drain an unfathomable amount of resources to replace every single piece of machinery on a Reaper fleet, I would bet some parts on some Reapers would be millions of years old. True, they exist mainly in Dark Space and the most dire threat would be a rogue planetoid suddenly appearing, but after so many extinction cycles, the parts would still start to decay.

But, in any case, their mastery of materials shows their metal parts can survive millions of years. It does seem a little suspicious that the statues are so well intact, especially considering that they survived that long, but if you consider they were made by a species who traveled between stars and made metal so strong they could survive space, as well as the fact Ilos is a dead world where the most threat to them would be rain and oxygen, you can see why that their metal, being specifically tempered by a spacefaring species with the sole purpose of making statues, would last so long inside Ilos' atmosphere.

[Chubark]

LucidStrike wrote...

Chubark wrote...
Even look at the Reapers, for criminey's sake, some of them must be -billions- of years old.

You mean that in the British sense right, because in the best estimate I've founds, millions is an appropriate estimate:

In a message to Shepard, Chorban states his theory that "[the keepers] were engineered
millions of years ago... by the same people who made Sovereign!"

I'm basing the 'billions' bit because that, if the Reapers build 1+ of themselves every 50,000 years, and the most we've confirmed at one time is 295 via the ending to Mass Effect 2's ending showing all the Reapers as they approach the galaxy. If only one Reaper is created each cycle, 295 x 50,000 would be 14 billion years, approaching 15 billion years. I know it would have been impossible for the Reapers to exist that long, but considering the amount of members of a species it would take to create just one Reaper, it would be easy to think that the Reapers as a species would have been around one to two billion years or so.

That, and the Leviathan of Dis was estimated to be a billion years old by intial test from Batarian researchers before being spirited away by Batarians.

Modifié par Chubark, 26 février 2012 - 10:15 .

[Ivoryhammer]

Chubark wrote...

Ivoryhammer wrote...

Explain how the Quinari grew horns, changed eye colours, and look less human in DA2.

Writers explained it away by 'non-horned Qunari' are a rare genetic abnomality, and the horned ones are the norm.

That would make sense for Sten, but there are other Qunari in DA:O that do not have horns. Maybe it's something in the Fereldan air. I'm not being nitpicky, I'm trying to be funny.

[Chubark]

Ivoryhammer wrote...

Chubark wrote...

Ivoryhammer wrote...

Explain how the Quinari grew horns, changed eye colours, and look less human in DA2.

Writers explained it away by 'non-horned Qunari' are a rare genetic abnomality, and the horned ones are the norm.

That would make sense for Sten, but there are other Qunari in DA:O that do not have horns. Maybe it's something in the Fereldan air. I'm not being nitpicky, I'm trying to be funny.

And to add on to my statements before, there are some Tal'Vashoth whom cut their horns off for unknown reasons. Since Sten's unit are not Tal'Vashoth, maybe it was a squad comprised of genetically different soldiers?

[Weskerr]

Chubark wrote...

But the Reapers can still count, because they're non-organic life forms and their bodies are mainly comprised of non-organic parts. Considering how advanced Reapers are in terms of technology, their parts can probably last a very long time without any sort of decay. But the fact is, the Reapers' parts would still decay regardless. Considering it would drain an unfathomable amount of resources to replace every single piece of machinery on a Reaper fleet, I would bet some parts on some Reapers would be millions of years old. True, they exist mainly in Dark Space and the most dire threat would be a rogue planetoid suddenly appearing, but after so many extinction cycles, the parts would still start to decay.

But, in any case, their mastery of materials shows their metal parts can survive millions of years. It does seem a little suspicious that the statues are so well intact, especially considering that they survived that long, but if you consider they were made by a species who traveled between stars and made metal so strong they could survive space, as well as the fact Ilos is a dead world where the most threat to them would be rain and oxygen, you can see why that their metal, being specifically tempered by a spacefaring species with the sole purpose of making statues, would last so long inside Ilos' atmosphere.

I understand what you're saying, but this is your explanation, not the game's. If a codex entry were created that made this retcon more believable - like saying that this pre-Prothean species invented a material that significantly slows natural decay - then I'd be more inclined to accept it. Still, why did they choose to retcon the Protheans at all? What's wrong with how the Illos Statues looked?

It is very easy to accept the fact that Reapers are built with anti-aging technology because they've been around for eons and are a super-intelligent machine/organic hybrid species. You can't say the same for the pre-Prothean species who are now represented by the Illos statues. Where are the other examples of their culture? Why did only their statues survive and not their buildings?