380 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightweight Nate]

There's no real logical explanation for it. It's just a retcon, so deal with it. Honestly, I thought that the Protheans in ME1 looked pretty dumb. Sure, they don't really explain it, but it is what it is. You might as well just enjoy the fact that the Protheans actually kind of cool now instead of like blue, bald people being face raped by bioluminescent squid.

[AgitatedLemon]

Lightweight Nate wrote...

There's no real logical explanation for it. It's just a retcon, so deal with it. Honestly, I thought that the Protheans in ME1 looked pretty dumb. Sure, they don't really explain it, but it is what it is. You might as well just enjoy the fact that the Protheans actually kind of cool now instead of like blue, bald people being face raped by bioluminescent squid.

Yeah, now they look like Downs patients with goat eyes.

Need I mention Prothy's accent?

[Sajuro]

Crackpot maybe, but could the upper half of his face be more of a combat helmet? On the picture I'm looking at ,there is just a ridge (for lack of better word) on the bottom of the upper part between it and his nose, while I would assume that a biological top would just smooth out into the rest of the face.

[Aimi]

BentOrgy wrote...

@daqs: Stupid is a matter of opinion, considering I found it interesting, and it doesn't stop it from being fact, and contridicting what ME3 is now telling us.

If there is such a thing as objective stupidity, the Cipher would have fallen into that category.

It wasn't enough for the whole concept of the Cipher to contradict one of the points that was constantly hammered into the player's head in ME1: "humans and aliens really aren't all that different after all when you get down to it". The Cipher was also internally contradictory, because it posited that the Prothean frame of reference, while radically different from anything any modern species could imagine, was completely the same across all Protheans. Even Jung would laugh at that kind of understanding of the collective unconscious. The fact that the Cipher seemed to simply be a particularly misshapen and lumpy form of plot clay, by giving Shepard an understanding of "the" (there's only one?) Prothean language, was merely icing on the cake.

[corporal doody]

Nauks wrote...

Redditaur wrote...

The top tenticle alien-statue is a race that pre-ceeds the protheans. They aren't the protheans. The second image is a Collector. And the bottom is a Prothean. The reapers enslaved and heavily transformed/mutated the protheans into Collectors. "Prothy" is a true Prothean.

It's...an explanation, but really? is it an satisfactory explanation or thinly veiled retcon? 

it is a smart explaination so the retcon makes sense

[daftPirate]

corporal doody wrote...

Nauks wrote...

Redditaur wrote...

The top tenticle alien-statue is a race that pre-ceeds the protheans. They aren't the protheans. The second image is a Collector. And the bottom is a Prothean. The reapers enslaved and heavily transformed/mutated the protheans into Collectors. "Prothy" is a true Prothean.

It's...an explanation, but really? is it an satisfactory explanation or thinly veiled retcon? 

it is a smart explaination so the retcon makes sense

Yep, I'm fine with this explanation. If it doesn't turn out to be the case...headcanon.

[Conrad_Verner]

If they are going to retcon why not just say that the statues are prothean depictions of their "souls." Then the visions from the beacons could be explained by stating that the message's intent was to convey the idea of total death rather than just bodily harm, hence the depictions of souls being butchered.

[bwg888]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Lightweight Nate wrote...

There's no real logical explanation for it. It's just a retcon, so deal with it. Honestly, I thought that the Protheans in ME1 looked pretty dumb. Sure, they don't really explain it, but it is what it is. You might as well just enjoy the fact that the Protheans actually kind of cool now instead of like blue, bald people being face raped by bioluminescent squid.

Yeah, now they look like Downs patients with goat eyes.

Need I mention Prothy's accent?

Well, that first thing is a hilarious and colorful opinion, but the accent makes sense. Go on a video with audio clips and check out what they're discussing in the comments

[Xivai]

I thought it was pretty obvious there were other species before us. Just look all around in game, universe be trippin species. It's quite logical to assume that perhaps over the 50k year periods entire communities filled with dozens of species flourished. All we see are scant records of the strongest species, or the lucky ones to last longest, or have some trace remain. The biggest hint is the rift of Klendagon a species with a gun that can kill a Reaper. Yet clearly not Prothean. Makes sense there's many species out there, some still to be discovered. Who knows, someday we might find the species that statue belong to. The galaxy is a big place, they missed a single Prothean after all.

[Travie]

I always thought it was just their art style.

[BentOrgy]

daqs wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

@daqs: Stupid is a matter of opinion, considering I found it interesting, and it doesn't stop it from being fact, and contridicting what ME3 is now telling us.

If there is such a thing as objective stupidity, the Cipher would have fallen into that category.

It wasn't enough for the whole concept of the Cipher to contradict one of the points that was constantly hammered into the player's head in ME1: "humans and aliens really aren't all that different after all when you get down to it". The Cipher was also internally contradictory, because it posited that the Prothean frame of reference, while radically different from anything any modern species could imagine, was completely the same across all Protheans. Even Jung would laugh at that kind of understanding of the collective unconscious. The fact that the Cipher seemed to simply be a particularly misshapen and lumpy form of plot clay, by giving Shepard an understanding of "the" (there's only one?) Prothean language, was merely icing on the cake.

I fail to see how it contradicted "Aliens and humans are similar," because the game also makes it very clear that, while similar, they are still alien, and so are their cultures and beliefs. At least, that's what Bioware wanted to convey; although they did fall into classic pitfalls that most people do when creating aliens; one such thing is a universal language: 

From Star Wars to... Virtually every other Sci-Fi that has aliens, they all speak the same language; is that stupid? Yes, of course it is, and I've always been amazed at how entire races are so often treated like countries, rather than a species, but you can't blame Bioware for doing it, because they're certainly not the first.

As for the Cipher and what Jung may or may not have done; you have to again look at how Bioware presented their aliens; each one of each race thinks pretty much the same as the one beside them; Mordin even pointing this out during his loyalty mission; how humans are the most diverse species in terms of psychology and physiology. All turians are military-minded, all Salarians are tech-savvy. Is that, again, fairly ridiculous? Yes, yes it is, but it is there; so the idea that all Prothean minds functioned the same way isn't that hard to image, again, given the story that Bioware has created.

So its not really internally contradictory when you consider the type of background and themes Bioware used in creating their version of the Galaxy, if anything, it serves to solidify it.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 24 février 2012 - 06:15 .

[AgitatedLemon]

bwg888 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Lightweight Nate wrote...

There's no real logical explanation for it. It's just a retcon, so deal with it. Honestly, I thought that the Protheans in ME1 looked pretty dumb. Sure, they don't really explain it, but it is what it is. You might as well just enjoy the fact that the Protheans actually kind of cool now instead of like blue, bald people being face raped by bioluminescent squid.

Yeah, now they look like Downs patients with goat eyes.

Need I mention Prothy's accent?

Well, that first thing is a hilarious and colorful opinion, but the accent makes sense. Go on a video with audio clips and check out what they're discussing in the comments

I don't have a problem with his accent at all. It just startled me with how different it was from what I expected.

When you look at his "duuuuuuuur" face, you don't expect him to be a rastafarian.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 24 février 2012 - 06:15 .

[Cody211282]

EastSideryda wrote...

Retcon?

Worked for Dragon Age.

[AlanC9]

daqs wrote...
It wasn't enough for the whole concept of the Cipher to contradict one of the points that was constantly hammered into the player's head in ME1: "humans and aliens really aren't all that different after all when you get down to it". The Cipher was also internally contradictory, because it posited that the Prothean frame of reference, while radically different from anything any modern species could imagine, was completely the same across all Protheans. Even Jung would laugh at that kind of understanding of the collective unconscious. The fact that the Cipher seemed to simply be a particularly misshapen and lumpy form of plot clay, by giving Shepard an understanding of "the" (there's only one?) Prothean language, was merely icing on the cake.

Well, IIRC the prothean  -- that's uncapitalized, right? Like "human"? -- beacon transmitted a telepathic message which was only supposed to be understood by prothean minds. So there's nothing that crazy about needing some understanding of prothean thought processes to be able to decrypt it. I could have done without the mystical mumbo-jumbo, but the basic concept isn't that bad.

[SirCrimz]

I just don't think they ever intended to make Protheans a playable species until ME3 (possibly by ME2 with the concept of the collectors). I suppose the excuse that the statues were a race that proceeded the Protheans.

[Slashout]

For all we know, the prothean you will get isn't a pure blood prothean but just one of the brainwashed and modified genitcally ones that split from the herd because he was "different". Maybe through a freak accident he regained some of his brain that all the others lost.

Or maybe the old protheans look too much like Husks and look to scary to be part of your team so they "adjusted" their looks.

Modifié par Slashout, 24 février 2012 - 07:02 .

[AtreiyaN7]

BentOrgy wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Collectors are heavily genetically-modified creations based on the original Protheans. That other thing is pretty clearly a husk. The question should be whether or not those statues on Ilos are what the original Protheans looked like or if they're something else. The only thing I think it's safe to say is that Collectors probably don't resemble their original Prothean progenitors in any case. Honestly, who knows what the original Protheans look like at this point - I'd say you should try asking Prothy after getting the DLC.

Its not just the Codex Entry; its everything Prothean related prior to Prothy in ME3. Look around these pages, there's literally dozens of reasons why the True Protheans looked like the Statues, and virtually none that say "Collector."

And we're all but given fact that Prothy is a True Prothean, just based on his conversations with Shepard regarding the other races during his time.

I have pretty much agreed with the general consensus that the statues were probably true Protheans. However, I would still like to see the statue thing settled "officially" since people have argued are they/aren't they Protheans in the past despite the existing evidence (the statues and the visions). As I said, the only thing that we're 100% sure of is that Collectors are heavily modified and (supposedly) don't bear much resemblance to the original Protheans (based on actual conversations about Collector DNA in ME2).

If Prothy is supposed to have been taken straight from cryogenic storage, then it's clearly a redesign to bring them closer in appearance to their Collector descendants and the OP has his answer. Then again, maybe someone tried to recreate a Prothean based on DNA retrieved from a Collector for all I know. I think we're only going to find out what the deal is with this once we have the actual DLC with the (supposedly) "true" Prothean to chat with and ogle - not to mention playing out the whole story. Even if it turns out to be a flat-out species redesign, I'm flexible about it - other people can rage all they want about retcons. Given Star Trek Klingons going from smooth foreheads to head ridges, I'm not particularly bothered by the redesign of a species.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 24 février 2012 - 07:03 .

[Wolverfrog]

VeR0se wrote...

G3rman wrote...

VeR0se wrote...

Doesn't look like a Prothean, DLC character looks like a Collector with clothes.

And Collectors are Protheans.

How do you know what Protheans were to look like?  ME1 codex entries that were just lazy placeholders susceptible to retcon which followed in ME2?

They have satues in the ruins of Ilos. 

Could have been another race they honoured in some way; there is a Krogan statue in the Citadel, after all.

[laudable11]

Il Divo wrote...

I really don't see the issue.

[Augustine]

The first is the Reaper Protean-Husk-like creature. I do not recall any place in ME where it was suggested that they are a race preceding Proteans.
Second is(as very clearly stated by Mordin in ME2) are the Proteans who were re-engineered by Reapers into living tools, like the Keepers. They are only vaguely related to Proteans at that point, now named Collectors. Refer to the Mordin's explanation for details.

Number three is what I assume the actual Protean looks like.

[Mr. Sheepgood]

My explanation:
Protheans don't have hair. Instead, when they stop shaving their face, they grow tentacle beards. So the Prothean teammate probably shaves everyday. There, retcon solved.

[Zeenof]

Donno if this was already said, but it isn't a retcon, at least, not exactly. It was never officially stated, in game, or by Bioware, that any of the creatures we saw in the visions, or the statues, were Protheans. I believe it was mentioned... somewhere? that the statues were the race that came before the Protheans and they storta half-whorshipped them like the current cycle's inhabitants do the Protheans.

Now, I wont argue that those creatures in the visions and the statues weren't, most likely, suppose to be Protheans. They probably were. I'm fairly sure that Bioware didn't have a solid design of them back then. But I will argue that they weren't actually confirmed to be; thus it's not an actual retcon so much as they were just place holders for the real design that came later with ME2.

[Phategod1]

TheOptimist wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

 I know this has been talk about before during ME2's time . . . .but please can someone explain to me how prothean
images from ME1 show them as looking like this :

I don't remember this ever being stated to be a Prothean...

yeah Im with you on this, This is a simple statue non one I believe ever said this was a Statue OF a Prothean it may just be there God or just  abstract art that was very popular in Prothean Culture. 

[v0rt3x22]

This is why they look the way they do:

While exploring a supposedly derelict Collector ship, Shepard and team discover the true origin of the Collectors. Since they exhibit a similar quad-strand genetic structure unique to the Protheans, Shepard realizes that the race formerly believed extinct still exists but has been completely subjugated by their Reaper masters. Their DNA showed signs of "extensive genetic rewrite" including three fewer chromosomes, reduced heterochromatin structure, and the elimination of superfluous "junk" sequences.

While studying Collector data in the lab aboard the Normandy SR-2, Mordin Solus determines that the Reapers indoctrinated the Protheans and compensated for their growing lack of ability due to prolonged indoctrination through cybernetic modifications. The modifications are beyond any form of repair, each Collector drone being little more than a clone—it's unknown if they even still possess any form of gender—riddled with cybernetics, lacking glands or digestive system, and having any form of intelligence or self-awareness completely eradicated by indoctrination.

[Deltateam Elcor]

People thought the conduit on the citadel was art, take it as caution for when dealing with mysterious prothei.