198 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Dialog of Kaidan or Ashley acknowledging homosexual relationship was never there.

Modifié par Collider, 05 mars 2012 - 01:40 .

[Collider]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Collider wrote...

Dialog of Kaidan or Ashley acknowledging homosexual relationship was never there.

You can't possibly say that when the very first paragraph of the quote you just cited me - and which I presented - clearly says they recorded both sides of the relationship.

No, read again. He said that Hale and Meer (the Shepard voice actors) recorded the same dialog.

Both Shepard voice actors recorded both sides of the romance.

They DIDN'T say that Rapheal Sbrage (Kaidan's VA) and Kimberly Brooks (Ashley's VA) recorded homosexual dialog.

Modifié par Collider, 05 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[Collider]

EDIT: I just realized you were talking about Kaidan and Ashley, not Shepard.

Yes, hence the dialog from male and female Shepard don't really mean anything. They recorded it for convenience. That's why you have male Shepard recorded dialog of calling himself a woman or reacting to Harkin calling him a princess.

If I dig enough in the files I might be able to find female Shepard calling herself a man.

[Ninja Mage]

I think canonically Kaiden is more gay than straight..like he wouldn't sleep with female shepard

[Carfax]

mauro2222 wrote...

You completly changed my point for your convinience, I never said lustful way.

In fact you just repeated what I wrote about competition. And those many "studies" also point to the fact that with this "admiration" (wich is stupid considering that they are competing) capability you are able to "see" the attractive things like physionomy, mannerisms, personality and so on... then the brain, to put it in a vague manner, "remembers" who is the target and who is the competitor, to continue with the courting behaviour.

You can apply this to friendship and love.

And you can't use something completly related to culture and learned behaviour as an example.

I just don't understand how checking out the competition could in any way shape or form imply even the slightest bisexuality, since bisexuality means sexual attraction to both sexes (thats why I brought up lust)..  Seeing or noticing what makes someone attractive doesn't constitute sexual attraction of any sort.

If I say my sister is an attractive woman, does that automatically imply that I have some sort of sexual attraction to her?

And yeah, admiration was probably the wrong word to use.  Jealousy would have been a better term I suppose.

[shepskisaac]

Ohh seriously Carfax, just deal with it. Kaidan never said "I don't like dudes" so it's not a retcon no matter how many times you repeat that it is. End of story

[Carfax]

IsaacShep wrote...

Ohh seriously Carfax, just deal with it. Kaidan never said "I don't like dudes" so it's not a retcon no matter how many times you repeat that it is. End of story

It's retcon because Kaidan was originally intended by the Mass Effect writing team to be completely heterosexual, as he was FemShep's primary love interest in Mass Effect.  There is zero evidence that Kaidan was into guys in ME, and anyone saying that there was has fanciful delusions, nothing more.

At any rate, this doesn't bother me as much as you think it does.  You don't see me campaigning or petitioning Bioware to have Kaidan remain heterosexual do you? 

In fact, I've already admitted several times that since gay men got screwed over in the love interest department, getting Kaidan would be a great way to compensate.

If I had it my way, I would have made Vega bisexual and leave Kaidan straight.....but luckily for you, I don't work at Bioware.

Any way, I'm in far too good of a mood right now to engage in mud slinging since my game unlocks at 9am tomorrow

[MACharlie1]

Carfax wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

You completly changed my point for your convinience, I never said lustful way.

In fact you just repeated what I wrote about competition. And those many "studies" also point to the fact that with this "admiration" (wich is stupid considering that they are competing) capability you are able to "see" the attractive things like physionomy, mannerisms, personality and so on... then the brain, to put it in a vague manner, "remembers" who is the target and who is the competitor, to continue with the courting behaviour.

You can apply this to friendship and love.

And you can't use something completly related to culture and learned behaviour as an example.

I just don't understand how checking out the competition could in any way shape or form imply even the slightest bisexuality, since bisexuality means sexual attraction to both sexes (thats why I brought up lust)..  Seeing or noticing what makes someone attractive doesn't constitute sexual attraction of any sort.

If I say my sister is an attractive woman, does that automatically imply that I have some sort of sexual attraction to her?

And yeah, admiration was probably the wrong word to use.  Jealousy would have been a better term I suppose.

If you were a follower of Freudian psychology - then perhaps. He does make note that men/women do have some degree of an Oedipus complex at a young age with their mothers/fathers. Just thought i'd point that out - it's really irrelevant. 

But I do argue that everyone is bisexual...to some degree. It's the whole sexuality spectrum with distinct ******/heterosexuality on either ends and bisexuality in the middle and everyone else somewhere between there. Now, homosexuality has developed over time to be stigmatized not so much because of the romantic interactions between two same sex individuals but by unclean practices. At first, it was just said that sodomy was wrong. Being romantic with another man (since women at this time were property and it was either not cared about or looked down upon because they are a MANS property) was looked upon as being noble and an honored thing provided it didn't involve penetration (yes, men can have sex without it) and I believe if they did their part to society and did sire offspring. Then as time moved foward it slowly became twisted and law became if you're with a man at all then it's taboo. Society goes on and develops and kids grow up thinking this and minor attractions to men are repressed, while some men, such as myself, have very strong attractions with little inclination towards the opposite sex, tend to end up alone or as priests. 

What would happen if a child were raised without ANY sort of push either way towards a sex? Absolutley none. No pressure from family, friends, media to be one way? 

Unfortunately for your arguement, sexuality is one of those things that is internal. Kaidan doesn't have to show any inclination towards guys. It's all in his pixelated brain. It's the same thing if you thought your straight friend then came out to you that he was gay. You had no idea. It happens. All the time. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 05 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[mauro2222]

Carfax wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

You completly changed my point for your convinience, I never said lustful way.

In fact you just repeated what I wrote about competition. And those many "studies" also point to the fact that with this "admiration" (wich is stupid considering that they are competing) capability you are able to "see" the attractive things like physionomy, mannerisms, personality and so on... then the brain, to put it in a vague manner, "remembers" who is the target and who is the competitor, to continue with the courting behaviour.

You can apply this to friendship and love.

And you can't use something completly related to culture and learned behaviour as an example.

I just don't understand how checking out the competition could in any way shape or form imply even the slightest bisexuality, since bisexuality means sexual attraction to both sexes (thats why I brought up lust)..  Seeing or noticing what makes someone attractive doesn't constitute sexual attraction of any sort.

If I say my sister is an attractive woman, does that automatically imply that I have some sort of sexual attraction to her?

And yeah, admiration was probably the wrong word to use.  Jealousy would have been a better term I suppose.

Yes... being a member of your family doesn't change that, there are other things that stop you from going to far. Some cultures and nature itself see incest as something bad, and in fact it is, from a reproductive point of view it causes a lot of problems, to the child and the community.

[shepskisaac]

Carfax wrote...

It's retcon because Kaidan was originally intended by the Mass Effect writing team to be completely heterosexual, as he was FemShep's primary love interest in Mass Effect.

Being a love interest option for FemShep does not equal automatically being exclusively heterosexual. Patrick didn't say bisexuality didn't "fit" him. Copy+pasted dilaogues from FemShep's romance didn't fit, which is true since there were gender references.

[Weltea]

mauro2222 wrote...

Carfax wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

You completly changed my point for your convinience, I never said lustful way.

In fact you just repeated what I wrote about competition. And those many "studies" also point to the fact that with this "admiration" (wich is stupid considering that they are competing) capability you are able to "see" the attractive things like physionomy, mannerisms, personality and so on... then the brain, to put it in a vague manner, "remembers" who is the target and who is the competitor, to continue with the courting behaviour.

You can apply this to friendship and love.

And you can't use something completly related to culture and learned behaviour as an example.

I just don't understand how checking out the competition could in any way shape or form imply even the slightest bisexuality, since bisexuality means sexual attraction to both sexes (thats why I brought up lust)..  Seeing or noticing what makes someone attractive doesn't constitute sexual attraction of any sort.

If I say my sister is an attractive woman, does that automatically imply that I have some sort of sexual attraction to her?

And yeah, admiration was probably the wrong word to use.  Jealousy would have been a better term I suppose.

Yes... being a member of your family doesn't change that, there are other things that stop you from going to far. Some cultures and nature itself see incest as something bad, and in fact it is, from a reproductive point of view it causes a lot of problems, to the child and the community.

Seriously????? :huh:You believe that is its impossible toconsider someone being attractive without being attracted to them? That's good to know 'cause then I have the hots for my entire family,most of my friends,every model regardless of gender I see on TV or magazines and we have "asexuality doesn't exist". Oh,and I could be considered a pedophile. <_<

Modifié par Weltea, 05 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[Collider]

I don't think it's a retcon unless Kaidan says he had feelings for male Shepard in ME1 and ME2.
He doesn't seem to, in which case his attraction is new and therefore not a retcon .

[mauro2222]

Weltea wrote...

Seriously????? :huh:You believe that is its impossible toconsider someone being attractive without being attracted to them? That's good to know 'cause then I have the hots for my entire family,most of my friends,every model regardless of gender I see on TV or magazines and we have "asexuality doesn't exist". Oh,and I could be considered a pedophile. <_<

I like how you twisted everything I said, in fact you didn't understand a thing.

[ladyofpayne]

I will play John Shep+ Kaidan.

[Demarco09]

Ninja Mage wrote...

I think canonically Kaiden is more gay than straight..like he wouldn't sleep with female shepard

Kaiden  maybe...   but Kaidan  loves him some femshep:wub:            I should know  

Modifié par Demarco09, 06 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[dbrw]

http://www.tumblr.co...g2wffOrM1rr5hs8
8)

[stwu]

There goes Bioware messing with characters just to make some fans happy. They should have made Vega the m/m choice. Kaidan has been retconned! Run Kaidan run!!!!

[Arik7]

stwu wrote...

There goes Bioware messing with characters just to make some fans happy. They should have made Vega the m/m choice. Kaidan has been retconned! Run Kaidan run!!!!

Kaidan seems pretty happy with the male Shepard...
 

[Pluto92929]

Question about the Kaiden M/M relationship. I thought it would be like in ME2 where you could romance a bunch of crew mates, then dump somebody, rinse & repeat. I got the Paramour achievement with Cortez, but made a save before that. Will initial flirtation with Cortez lock out a relationship with Kaidan? I already gave Kaidan the whiskey, but he never asked about meeting at a Citadel cafe. I just finished Priority: Citadel 2.

Modifié par Pluto92929, 12 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[ElitePinecone]

Pluto92929 wrote...

Question about the Kaiden M/M relationship. I thought it would be like in ME2 where you could romance a bunch of crew mates, then dump somebody, rinse & repeat. I got the Paramour achievement with Cortez, but made a save before that. Will initial flirtation with Cortez lock out a relationship with Kaidan? I already gave Kaidan the whiskey, but he never asked about meeting at a Citadel cafe. I just finished Priority: Citadel 2.

Priority: Citadel 2 is the mission that unlocks Kaidan's actual romance bit. 

After he rejoins the Normandy (just head back onto the ship) you should be able to meet Kaidan in the Apollo Cafe. If you gave him the gift and used mainly paragon options, a relationship should come up in the dinner scene. 

'Flirting' per se with Cortez doesn't lock out Kaidan. Cortez's scene in Purgatory was relationship-focused (I think telling him to go to the Memorial Wall "for me" is what the game considers the romance start) but if you turn down his dancing offer Cortez moves to a friendship path instead. 

I turned down Cortez at Purgatory then had the Kaidan relationship-dinner-thing and unlocked the Paramour achievement. 

[Pluto92929]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I turned down Cortez at Purgatory then had the Kaidan relationship-dinner-thing and unlocked the Paramour achievement. 

Thanks, I think I'm going to try Kaidan because he's a more established character in the ME universe.  Maybe I'll try Cortez in a second playthrough.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've come to one conclusion.... if you play as femShep, and you "virmired" Kaiden, the Normandy crew is gay. Canon femShepard is gay.

You mean Vega isn't a M/M LI??? I thought he was bi at first since he was flirting with femShep like mad with her, then when she calls him on it, he's just a big wind bag. Typical. I guess she hurt his feelings after she beat him.

So if Kaiden was "virmired", there are no human hetero LIs for femShep in ME3. None. All the guys are gay. All the women are gay. And Joker has this Cyber thing going. Yet, with a gay ship, the lack of any decent music in the lounge, no pool table for the girls (should have a mini-game w/ achievement), card table for the guys (mini-game w/achievement). I can understand the no alcohol stuff and no opium den, but seriously, if femShep has to be gay she wants to shoot some pool with Traynor and beat her for +5 rep. If she beats EDI it's +10 rep.