157 réponses à ce sujet

[xentar]

Gaming industry doesn't need morals.

[Darth Death]

littlezack wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

You have two factions:

Group A- Are individuals who don't care to pay extra, they don't consider the prothean to be important, & are loyal to BioWare regardless.

Group B- Are individuals who do care about their budget, they believe the prothean to be important, & they show a sense of awareness.

Oh, shove off.

If Bioware made a product or a game I didn't like, I wouldn't buy it. I'm an adult. I work hard. I have a budget and I adhere to it. I can spend my money on whatever I feel is worth it. That's my decision and right as a consumer. 

Then why did you take offense to what I've said?

Because I hate this notion that, because I choose to buy DLC, I'm just some mindless drone who doesn't think about where his money goes to.

Nowhere did I say you're 'mindless', but if I implied that I'm humbly sorry. The example was merely my observation of people congregated in this place. 

[littlezack]

Darth Death wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

You have two factions:

Group A- Are individuals who don't care to pay extra, they don't consider the prothean to be important, & are loyal to BioWare regardless.

Group B- Are individuals who do care about their budget, they believe the prothean to be important, & they show a sense of awareness.

Oh, shove off.

If Bioware made a product or a game I didn't like, I wouldn't buy it. I'm an adult. I work hard. I have a budget and I adhere to it. I can spend my money on whatever I feel is worth it. That's my decision and right as a consumer. 

Then why did you take offense to what I've said?

Because I hate this notion that, because I choose to buy DLC, I'm just some mindless drone who doesn't think about where his money goes to.

Nowhere did I say you're 'mindless', but if I implied that I'm humbly sorry. The example was merely my observation of people congregated in this place. 

I might have overreacted. My main bone of contention was the 'individual who care about their budget' part. I care about my budget. I make allowances.

[Darth Death]

I'll edit that part then.

[Elvis_Mazur]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

You know I keep seeing this pop up, but I have to ask: Why SHOULD game companies respect you? You never show them any respect.They work hard to give you a great experience and yet the second they do something you don't like, you condemn them and call them monsters. To get respect, you have to give it. And Lord & Master Foamy the Squirrel, the gamers are not giving it at ALL.

Just my 2 credits.

Uh-huh. And I suppose they are giving it for free? That they are a charity comunity?


It's their job. People pay for the product and they have the right to complain.

[Darth Death]

Nothing... Ignore this:whistle:

Modifié par Darth Death, 24 février 2012 - 02:32 .

[hoorayforicecream]

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If you buy a new car on day 1, you might get the power door locks and power steering, the air conditioning and the radio, but you probably have to pay extra for the dvd player and the built-in GPS. You probably have to pay extra for the bluetooth phone adaptability, and the rear-view parking display. You usually even have to pay extra for the remote lock and unlock feature. All on day 1. Did the car manufacturers immorally "hold back" these features?

Without these extra paid features, you still have a fully functional car that can take you from point A to point B. Maybe you can't stand driving without a rear view parking display, but I assure you that plenty of people can.

[Isefenoth]

I just don't understand how any self-respecting Mass Effect fan could say that a Prothean squadmate isn't important...
And it's just beyond me how could someone defend Bioware for this launch day dlc fiasko, but hey, we all got our rights to our opinions and mine is that they have crossed the line between making money and *ss*ucking their fanbase.

EDIT:  It's a different case if you can't interract anyway with the prothy at all, but I seriously doubt that they would make mute squadmate. After all the whole climax of ME1 was the discussion with the Prothean VI.

Modifié par Isefenoth, 24 février 2012 - 02:43 .

[TheStoner]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If you buy a new car on day 1, you might get the power door locks and power steering, the air conditioning and the radio, but you probably have to pay extra for the dvd player and the built-in GPS. You probably have to pay extra for the bluetooth phone adaptability, and the rear-view parking display. You usually even have to pay extra for the remote lock and unlock feature. All on day 1. Did the car manufacturers immorally "hold back" these features?

Without these extra paid features, you still have a fully functional car that can take you from point A to point B. Maybe you can't stand driving without a rear view parking display, but I assure you that plenty of people can.

A car is physical. Physical things have prodcution costs. Is it so hard to see the difference?

Modifié par TheStoner, 24 février 2012 - 02:43 .

[WhiteKnyght]

HaloXenon wrote...

Many of you will wonder how this is relevant to ME3.
It is in this case.

ME3 will be our closest and perhaps newest example on this case I'm about to talk.

What is the question here is that why do we get Day 1 DLC?
No, not exactly "buttmad", just tad bit disappointed.
Why?
Day1 DLC indicates that the company is selling us an unfinished product right from the start.
That is wrong. In so many levels it doesn't even fi into scale.

I can fully understand capitalism and companys need to make profit, BUT selling unfisnihed products for full-price and DLC to "fix" or include things they had first thought would be good in game but were scratched out.

Many Game Groups nowadays fall into this same pit of greed, and to me its kinda sad to see such thing to happen.
For its completely different thing to make profit with good product than with unfinished or blatantly bad product.

I use my own company here as an example.
I'm carpenter, so I cannot and shall not ever sell unfinished products. It just isn't an option to me.
Think about it for a second. Here's a desk for you and for additional Day 1 DLC you can now get the extra legs for it so you can actually use it just like desk is thought to be used.
Originally it had four legs but I took two away before it went "gold" to make more profit.

And it is just sad to say Puiracy kills alone, so we must resort to these options.
They do same for me, using my "brand" to make look-alikes for cheaper but falling short in quality.
 

What I am truly trying to say here is that this "D1DLC" and such is actually killing the fanbase and turning this industry in into just same shades of black and brown.

Ten years back, you had clear Game, then half year later an expansion for it and frequent patching, if needed.
Now you buy Game, buy patch, expansion and perhaps hope that your one-time-only code works.


tl;dr

I hope Bioware would be one of the first companies to take steps for making whole gaming community and indrusty to change back into original fanbase, customer respecting way. 
 

Get the hell over it. DLC is developed apart from the original game, which is what you're paying for! The N7 Collector's Edition includes From Ashes, but you have to pay $20 more. It's only going to be $10 to buy separately. Meaning you're actually saving money by skipping on a bunch of useless swag.

The only parts of the N7 Edition I'm really going to miss is the limited edition comic.

Also you act like this is the first time Bioware has done something like this. The Exiled Prince and Black Emporium for Dragon Age II were Day-1 DLC too. As was the Cerberus Network for Mass Effect 2.

[Cody211282]

littlezack wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

rammsoldat wrote...

I dont hate day 1 dlc what i do hate is "DLC" thats alreay on the game disc, im looking at you EPIC you arses.

Capcom is rather bad with that as well.

 

Looks  like Capcom  and Bioware have been comparing  notes... 

When Bioware rereleases Mass Effect 3 six months later and makes you pay for a second version of the game with ten percent more content, then you can say that. When they make you pay for an unlock key, then you can say that. Until then, no.

And that's why capcom hangs out with ubisoft on my list of people I dont buy games from anymore.

[Klokos]

TheStoner wrote...


A car is physical. Physical things have prodcution costs. Is it so hard to see the difference?

 Video games are created out of thin air ?

[Megakoresh]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If you buy a new car on day 1, you might get the power door locks and power steering, the air conditioning and the radio, but you probably have to pay extra for the dvd player and the built-in GPS. You probably have to pay extra for the bluetooth phone adaptability, and the rear-view parking display. You usually even have to pay extra for the remote lock and unlock feature. All on day 1. Did the car manufacturers immorally "hold back" these features?

Without these extra paid features, you still have a fully functional car that can take you from point A to point B. Maybe you can't stand driving without a rear view parking display, but I assure you that plenty of people can.

You, as many other people, definitely breezed through ME2 and ME1 or didn't play them to begin with. The car example is completely irrelevant. It is a vital part of lore we are talking about. A part of lore that has been planned. It is NOT an afterthought.
If you remake that car example to suit this situation it would be similar to a man who really loves mersedes, and when he buys the model he has been saving for, that model has no fuselage, and has no logo on it. And then he would have to buy the fuselage and the logo separately. That is somewhat similar situation. Again, I would not mind one of my favourite developers getting money off something/someone cool but not lore important. Mass Effect is famous for it's universe, characters and plot. Not the shooting.

[hoorayforicecream]

TheStoner wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If you buy a new car on day 1, you might get the power door locks and power steering, the air conditioning and the radio, but you probably have to pay extra for the dvd player and the built-in GPS. You probably have to pay extra for the bluetooth phone adaptability, and the rear-view parking display. You usually even have to pay extra for the remote lock and unlock feature. All on day 1. Did the car manufacturers immorally "hold back" these features?

Without these extra paid features, you still have a fully functional car that can take you from point A to point B. Maybe you can't stand driving without a rear view parking display, but I assure you that plenty of people can.

A car is physical. Physical things have prodcution costs. Is it so hard to see the difference?

Are you saying that games, since they are not physical, do not have production costs?

Megakoresh wrote...

You, as many other
people, definitely breezed through ME2 and ME1 or didn't play them to
begin with. The car example is completely irrelevant. It is a vital part
of lore we are talking about. A part of lore that has been planned. It
is NOT an afterthought.
If you remake that car example to suit this
situation it would be similar to a man who really loves mersedes, and
when he buys the model he has been saving for, that model has no
fuselage, and has no logo on it. And then he would have to buy the
fuselage and the logo separately. That is somewhat similar situation.
Again, I would not mind one of my favourite developers getting money off
something/someone cool but not lore important. Mass Effect is famous
for it's universe, characters and plot. Not the shooting.

I have a friend who gets lost constantly, because he is very bad at reading maps and checking road signs. He pays for the onboard GPS option whenever he gets a new car (I've seen him go through two), or rents a car. Just because he cannot drive without a GPS doesn't mean that the GPS is somehow necessary and every car should have a GPS unit installed.

The DLC character is not part of the critical path of ME3. It is additional content that enriches the experience, but is in no way necessary. The only way it would be part of the critical path is if the game was literally unplayable without it, and that's not the case. You may not like the way the game plays without the DLC character, but that doesn't mean it isn't a full and complete experience. A car without a fuselage is undrivable. A single potential squadmate out of at least a half-dozen or more is not unplayable.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 24 février 2012 - 02:53 .

[Alraiis]

This is not a moral issue.

The average customer is not being lied to, is not (despite claims to the contrary) being sold an "incomplete" product or a product that otherwise deviates from what was advertised. At worst, it's bad business, as it alienates current and future customers, but there is no moral transgression. The people this controversy impacts the most are shareholders of EA. You, as a customer, have all the information you need to make a decision on how to spend your money, and you have the power to withhold that money to demonstrate your dissatisfaction.

[TheStoner]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Get the hell over it. DLC is developed apart from the original game, which is what you're paying for! The N7 Collector's Edition includes From Ashes, but you have to pay $20 more. It's only going to be $10 to buy separately. Meaning you're actually saving money by skipping on a bunch of useless swag.

The only parts of the N7 Edition I'm really going to miss is the limited edition comic.

Also you act like this is the first time Bioware has done something like this. The Exiled Prince and Black Emporium for Dragon Age II were Day-1 DLC too. As was the Cerberus Network for Mass Effect 2.

The collectors edition extras are more than worth $20. You may not value them that much but that's why it's called a collector's edition. It's for collector's. The Cerberus network was free and I am not sure about the black emporium but I certainly got it free. The exiled prince was also pretty bad but noone really cared because DA2 wasn't a very good game.

[Dreadwing 67]

I read somewhere that the game was getting pretty costly and that the squadmate was getting up there with costs so they decided to make him DLC.

It could be a whole bunch of B.S, but ME3 looks to be the most expensive ME to make.

[eye basher]

G3rman wrote...

foo man chew wrote...

G3rman wrote...

foo man chew wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

The Cerberus Network DLC was part of project 10 dollar to stop used game sales, this new DLC is part of project $60+, as in you pay $60 for a game then between $5-$10 3-4 times to get the full story. Basicly it's an easy way to raise the price of the game to around $100 without raising the price of the game.

*rage*

What the f*ck is wrong with you people?

The. Prothean. Is. Not. Im. Por. Tant.

So if its not important then if they took it out of the ce edition you wouldnt care?And remember people who bought the ce edition are getting it for free so you cant use the i already paid for it argument.

Important to the plot.  They added it to the CE as another reward to the fans buying the fan package that is the CE.

People who bought the CE are happy because they bought a cool character, those of us who read the script know that he isn't pivotal to the plot though.  You can live without him.

So buying the game isnt enough?To be a fan now you have to pay extra for a limited edition of a game.I guess if i donate 10 dollars to a charity im not really helping if my neighbor donates 20 dollars.

Who said being a fan made you automatically deserve DLC that was slated to be DLC for over six months?  People who bought CE, fans or no, get the character and other goodies by shelling out $20 bucks compared to normal price.  Those who still want it can pay for the DLC.

Why are you trying to conform to the idea of being a fan?  I'll admit BioWare had a poor choice of words but honestly, buy or don't buy CE or the DLC.  Either way they put labor into the DLC apart from the main game, specifically slating the character for DLC during the main game's production, and expect compensation for it.  Not to mention this is another gimmick to increase revenue from Day 1, but they are a business.

Get off your so-called fan high horse and let your wallet do the speaking for you.

People keep saying 20$ extra i only paid 10$ i paid 70$ for the CE insted of 60$.

[Isefenoth]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

I read somewhere that the game was getting pretty costly and that the squadmate was getting up there with costs so they decided to make him DLC.

It could be a whole bunch of B.S, but ME3 looks to be the most expensive ME to make.

You seriously think that Bioware would had ran out of cash?
Yes, the production costs are most likely huge, but they are gonna make lots of profit with ME3, no doubt.

[WhiteKnyght]

BEWARE gamer entitlement!!!!!

[mousestalker]

Modern game companies have no morals. They will merge with anyone for the right price...

Modifié par mousestalker, 24 février 2012 - 03:10 .

[TheStoner]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't see why this is such a big deal. If you buy a new car on day 1, you might get the power door locks and power steering, the air conditioning and the radio, but you probably have to pay extra for the dvd player and the built-in GPS. You probably have to pay extra for the bluetooth phone adaptability, and the rear-view parking display. You usually even have to pay extra for the remote lock and unlock feature. All on day 1. Did the car manufacturers immorally "hold back" these features?

Without these extra paid features, you still have a fully functional car that can take you from point A to point B. Maybe you can't stand driving without a rear view parking display, but I assure you that plenty of people can.

A car is physical. Physical things have prodcution costs. Is it so hard to see the difference?

Are you saying that games, since they are not physical, do not have production costs?

Megakoresh wrote...

You, as many other
people, definitely breezed through ME2 and ME1 or didn't play them to
begin with. The car example is completely irrelevant. It is a vital part
of lore we are talking about. A part of lore that has been planned. It
is NOT an afterthought.
If you remake that car example to suit this
situation it would be similar to a man who really loves mersedes, and
when he buys the model he has been saving for, that model has no
fuselage, and has no logo on it. And then he would have to buy the
fuselage and the logo separately. That is somewhat similar situation.
Again, I would not mind one of my favourite developers getting money off
something/someone cool but not lore important. Mass Effect is famous
for it's universe, characters and plot. Not the shooting.

I have a friend who gets lost constantly, because he is very bad at reading maps and checking road signs. He pays for the onboard GPS option whenever he gets a new car (I've seen him go through two), or rents a car. Just because he cannot drive without a GPS doesn't mean that the GPS is somehow necessary and every car should have a GPS unit installed.

The DLC character is not part of the critical path of ME3. It is additional content that enriches the experience, but is in no way necessary. The only way it would be part of the critical path is if the game was literally unplayable without it, and that's not the case. You may not like the way the game plays without the DLC character, but that doesn't mean it isn't a full and complete experience. A car without a fuselage is undrivable. A single potential squadmate out of at least a half-dozen or more is not unplayable.

Yes. They have development costs but it doesn't cost them to produce copies of DLC.
A car can run without a roof. Without windows and without seats. None of these are critical part of a car but they are needed for the car to be considered complete. What you are essentially doing is drawing a arbitary line of what is complete and what isn't based on what Bioware is telling you is complete.

[S Atomeha]

Femlob wrote...

Morals of Game Industry?

Industry of For-Profit Companies

Morals

Try again.

i read through thi entire thing, an was shocked it took so long to say this without attacking individual companies

[hoorayforicecream]

TheStoner wrote...

Yes. They have development costs but it doesn't cost them to produce copies of DLC.
A car can run without a roof. Without windows and without seats. None of these are critical part of a car but they are needed for the car to be considered complete. What you are essentially doing is drawing a arbitary line of what is complete and what isn't based on what Bioware is telling you is complete.

Aren't you doing the same thing? How is your distinction of what is and isn't complete any less arbitrary than mine?

Look, I understand that the details of the squadmate are important to some players. And to those players, the game might not feel complete without those extra details. If you think that the game isn't playable without this dude, then don't buy it and wait until they release a pack with all the DLC. If a car got sold without a roof and seats, not a lot of people would buy it. I certainly wouldn't. You don't have to buy ME3. But just because you think the DLC content is akin to seats and a roof doesn't mean everyone does. Personally, I think it's more like having a GPS in the car. I don't need it, I don't have to pay for it, and I can get the relevant information I need elsewhere.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 24 février 2012 - 03:13 .

[Dreadwing 67]

Isefenoth wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

I read somewhere that the game was getting pretty costly and that the squadmate was getting up there with costs so they decided to make him DLC.

It could be a whole bunch of B.S, but ME3 looks to be the most expensive ME to make.

You seriously think that Bioware would had ran out of cash?
Yes, the production costs are most likely huge, but they are gonna make lots of profit with ME3, no doubt.

It's a valid excuse but I can't prove it and you can't disprove it. We are both speculating, but that may end up being the case.

Or they are greedy dirty hob-goblins, I simply do not know, but I try to consider everything.