266 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It's a well documented fact that Bioware favors Paragon decisions and wraps its choices (and story) around them. Renegade outcomes get tied into "new player profiles" and/or are completely invalidated compared to the Paragon alternative.

It's not open to dispute at this point. It's a fact. The Blue button will give you superior results to any other alternative... any other alternative (not just Renegade). Done deal.

(as long as things continue on the momentum of the previous 2 games.. which all signs have confirmed thusfar)

[Yakko77]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Hyrist wrote...

Most major renegade choices involved alienating or killing potential Allies.

Methinks Renegades screwed themselves over.

Or:

Most major Renegade choices involve stopping potential threats from raising cain in the future.

Potential threat vs. likely threat.

The Rachni Queen on Noveria is NOT the same Rachni that went on a rampage throughout the galaxy due to Reaper manipulation.

The colonists on Feros were NOT a threat to a super soldier like Shepard.

There's a reason you look like the freakin' terminator in ME2 if you go all out renegade.  If the moral and ethical consequences aren't convincing then the clear as day red glowing scars on your freakin' face should be.  There's symbolism there folks. 

[xsdob]

Cakefish wrote...

Everyone's missing out on a big thing here:

Renegade players can't save Wrex in ME1 from being shot.

Yes you can, you can get your intimedate high enough to talk him out of it.

[shenlonzero]

G3rman wrote...

Being a pure Renegade and pure Paragon isn't smart to begin with.

this. 

not to mention when playing as either paragon or renegade, paying attention to the decisions you are making instead of looking to see blue or read options is probably a good way to go.  sometimes neutrality is the best route to go if you are going for paragon or renegade specifically, but don't want a decision to negatively impact your story.  doesn't always but it keeps people from directly hating Shepard. 

if you made renegade after renegade choice for the sake of being a renegade, then you spent alot of time looking like a jerk and treating people like they don't matter.   who wants to help that guy. especially when there are vids of him punching female reporters, he committed genocide, used a nuclear warhead to blow up a krogan research facility, talks down to everyone he meets including his superiors, etc.  Not to mention he will just hang up on you in the middle of a conversation. Jerk.   when it comes to saving the galaxy, it's alot easier when everyone works together. and you can't always win everyone over through strength alone.  Krogans and Turians maybe...but that's it.

when i play renegade it's a mixture of decisions. i'll still punch the reporter, but killing wrex? nah.  no way.

[Maj.Pain007]

Most renegade choices are AWFUL and really make no sense most of the time.

[Gruzmog]

You might not have a choise when it comes to Wrex on you're first playtrough. Somethings just happen and that's kind of ok too keeps the experience different. I was not able to choose for Samara's daughter on my second char in the justicar loyalty mission for some reason. No clue why I could do so on my first char, both were mainly paragon, The first even had more points.

As much as I enjoy the Rachni queen and hope she is good.. What source do we have the originals were corrupted? The Rachni queen and hmm the Rachni queen? She might just be lying to survive. But I don't think so.

[Carnage752]

I hope there is some sort of benefit for going Renegade in some situations. You can't be a dick all the time and win, but being a pansy all the time isn't that much better either. We will find out in two weeks I guess.

[Tsantilas]

Paragon Shepard isn't a pansy. He just isn't a dick. You expect to be an **** to everyone and not have negative impact on your story? Huh?

[Carnage752]

Tsantilas wrote...

Paragon Shepard isn't a pansy. He just isn't a dick. You expect to be an **** to everyone and not have negative impact on your story? Huh?

Lol pure Paragon is to me. Sparing the scientist, picking Anderson over Udina, rewriting Reaperized Geth, and destroyingf a Collector base full of tech to use against Reapers is rather stupid. However, killing potential allies isn't much better, as well as getting Quarians and Geth to war eachother, so I guess I'm  a paragade... Or renegon. Depends.

[Hunter of Legends]

Carnage752 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Paragon Shepard isn't a pansy. He just isn't a dick. You expect to be an **** to everyone and not have negative impact on your story? Huh?

L destroyingf a Collector base full of tech to use against Reapers is rather stupid.

That also indoctrinates anyone who goes near it.

Plus for all itents and purposes that was just a simple research base. Not a military one.

[nickkcin11]

Carnage752 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Paragon Shepard isn't a pansy. He just isn't a dick. You expect to be an **** to everyone and not have negative impact on your story? Huh?

Lol pure Paragon is to me. Sparing the scientist, picking Anderson over Udina, rewriting Reaperized Geth, and destroyingf a Collector base full of tech to use against Reapers is rather stupid. However, killing potential allies isn't much better, as well as getting Quarians and Geth to war eachother, so I guess I'm  a paragade... Or renegon. Depends.

What... how is picking Anderson stupid? And how is destroying the Collector base stupid?
"I have a great idea! Let's let the crazy Illusive Man get a base that basically is a 'How to Build a Reaper'. He's always proved trustworthy in the past! And even though nobody understands Reaper tech, I'm sure they will be fine in a construct of the Reapers!"
Oh, wait. He's a villain and giving him the base will probably indoctrinate everyone. Yay.

Generally BW "screws" Renegade players over because Renegade decisions are bad. They're in there to add choice and to be funny and extreme. Not because they're good decisions.
"Let's sacrifice the Council and replace it with a 100% human one!" Yes... that won't have repercussions.
It's smart to play neutral, just make the best decisions were you see fit.

Modifié par nickkcin11, 24 février 2012 - 10:47 .

[Gruzmog]

Tsantilas wrote...

Paragon Shepard isn't a pansy. He just isn't a dick. You expect to be an **** to everyone and not have negative impact on your story? Huh?

You can aquire alot of renegade points even you don't play a dick. The Rachni queen is actually kind of a hard choise. Yes its genocide but you have one source claiming it will not come back to bite the galactic community in the ass, the creature whose life is in you're hands and might say anything, and the whole of history that says the race is commited to the genocide of all other species. That is actually a hard call to make. Any other races then humans will kill it. Leaving it there is not an option. Will you take the risk, free it, and risk the lives of billions of peoples if you are wrong?

Same with the council saving, yes the council is important for galactic stability but will the fleet have enough power to take down sovereign if you go in for the accension? You don't know that on you're first playtrough. I didn't dare risk it even when I was paragon.

Same with the genophage cure in ME2, the Krogan seem to be rebuilding without it. But they are still clearly very violent. Will you risk another war if they do get back their fast breeding?

These choise are not being a dick or making the good call. It's hard decisions that have consequences for billions of (virtual) lives.  If you always choose renegade sure you are being a dick and you should suffer for that. But sometimes it might actually be the better choise and I hope that is reflected in ME3

Modifié par Gruzmog, 24 février 2012 - 10:51 .

[BlueMagitek]

Yakko77 wrote...

The Rachni that attack you are essentially insane from being away from the hive mind of the Queen.  They're so out of control that even she says they have to be killed.  In ME2, if spared, you learn that the Queen believes Shep is fighting the ones who "soured the song of" the Rachni meaning the Reapers (Sovereign) likely instigated the initial war via indoctrination somehow.  I imagine the Rachni will want some payback against the Reapers let alone their debt to Shep... if you were wise enough to spare her.  My galactic readiness will be improved and you'll still likely run into rachni husks regrdless.  Have fun with the consequences of your genocidal choice.  Cheers.

Yes, in ME 2 you learn this.  That has nothing to do with the situation in ME 1.  What you know is that the Rachni made no attention to communicate with the galaxy.  Once there was contact, there was war.  And they overran the Council forces to the extent that the Salarians raised the Krogan to fight them off.  That's basically all Shepard knows.  

Sparing them was not a "wise" decision, because you're reintroducing an element of chaos, discord & destruction into the Galaxy, you have seen their uncontrolled rage first hand, now imagine that but with an actual mind leading them.  You're taking the word of a creature you've never met before, know next to nothing about (and of what you do know, nothing is good), that is most definately dangerous.

Sparing the Rachni may have been the correct choice, but it certainly wasn't a wise one.

[Farbautisonn]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

The reverse is also true.

Some see the world so black when confronted with white they just lable it gray.

-Very very true. Seen examples up close on quite a few occasions.

[Dean_the_Young]

TheOptimist wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
When it doesn't happen to Paragons.

That's cause being the good guy is usually the right call.

Being the good guy usually is. Being the nice guy, not so much. People eagerly take advantage of the nice guys.

Good =/= nice.

[TUHD]

How bloody often does it need to be said?... It doesn't matter for ME3 whether you're Renegade or Paragon according to Bioware. Of course, having chosen the Renegade path may have shut off some additional convos etc. But it doesn't necessarily destroy your game.
For example (spoiler warning) you can decide in ME3 to speak out as pro- or anti-Cerberus. I fully expect that Renegade players can get a massive reward here if they helped Cerberus all along. My personal guess is that important Paragon choices = having problems with TIM and help from the Council albeit reluctantly, while important Renegade choices = good standing with TIM and less to no help from the Council.
I don't doubt that for both Paragon and Renegade paths will be opened and shut off depending on their choices. Hence for example the rep system (oh, sorry. SPOILER!) in ME3 - wouldn't surprise me that Renegades due to their 'quick gain' way of working get a lower rep but will open up more intimidate options, while Paragons due to their more 'loving nature' (*ahum*), will get better rep and have more friendly persuavive means.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

When it doesn't happen to Paragons.

It does happen to Paragons...

Name three Paragon decisions from ME1 to ME2 that were worse in content, forshadowing, or galactic readiness against the Reapers, compared to their Renegade equivalent.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 25 février 2012 - 01:21 .

[Il Divo]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
When it doesn't happen to Paragons.

That's cause being the good guy is usually the right call.

Being the good guy usually is. Being the nice guy, not so much. People eagerly take advantage of the nice guys.

Good =/= nice.

I'm tempted to launch into one of those speeches about how Lawful Good and Lawful Stupid aren't quite the same thing.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yakko77 wrote...


Potential threat vs. likely threat.

The Rachni Queen on Noveria is NOT the same Rachni that went on a rampage throughout the galaxy due to Reaper manipulation.

Whose word do you have for both of those claims?

The Rachni Queen's. Who is at Shepard's mercy.


Whether the Rachni Queen has the same motivations or not, she has no reason to admit to such, and every reason to deny them.

The colonists on Feros were NOT a threat to a super soldier like Shepard.

Sure they are. Besides that Shepard is special forces, not invincible, they have guns, defensive terrain, and motivation to oppose you, while you've no idea if the grenades will work and have to expose yourselves more to use them.

There's a reason you look like the freakin' terminator in ME2 if you go all out renegade.  If the moral and ethical consequences aren't convincing then the clear as day red glowing scars on your freakin' face should be.  There's symbolism there folks. 

Since the scars come in only in ME2, which has by far the more pragmatic and moral Renegade decisions in the franchise.... that's an argument for surrendering critical thinking for graphics.

[Il Divo]

Yakko77 wrote...


There's a reason you look like the freakin' terminator in ME2 if you go all out renegade.  If the moral and ethical consequences aren't convincing then the clear as day red glowing scars on your freakin' face should be.  There's symbolism there folks. 

Indeed, yet it also removes any integrity from this so-called system with moral consequences. Paragon vs. Renegade was not supposed to be about good vs. evil, but to demonstrate to different approaches to moral philosophy. Good to know they dropped the ball, much like with Jade Empire's Open Palm vs. Closed Fist.

[Dean_the_Young]

Il Divo wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
When it doesn't happen to Paragons.

That's cause being the good guy is usually the right call.

Being the good guy usually is. Being the nice guy, not so much. People eagerly take advantage of the nice guys.

Good =/= nice.

I'm tempted to launch into one of those speeches about how Lawful Good and Lawful Stupid aren't quite the same thing.

I'll save you the trouble and reference Sam Vimes, a Lawful Good who would throw most Paragons in the brig.

[Dean_the_Young]

Il Divo wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...


There's a reason you look like the freakin' terminator in ME2 if you go all out renegade.  If the moral and ethical consequences aren't convincing then the clear as day red glowing scars on your freakin' face should be.  There's symbolism there folks. 

Indeed, yet it also removes any integrity from this so-called system with moral consequences. Paragon vs. Renegade was not supposed to be about good vs. evil, but to demonstrate to different approaches to moral philosophy. Good to know they dropped the ball, much like with Jade Empire's Open Palm vs. Closed Fist.

Meh, Closed Fist was pretty stupid from start to finish.

Renegade had potential, but it became the 'everything that isn't sympathetic' alignment.

[Il Divo]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]I'll save you the trouble and reference Sam Vimes, a Lawful Good who would throw most Paragons in the brig.

You do have a way with words.

[Dave of Canada]

Paragon choice: Take risk.
Renegade choice: Not take risk.

When the risk of the choice never occurs, the second choice becomes invalid. This is what people do not and will not understand, therefore Renegades must be stupid for their decisions. If the Paragon decision backfired, the Renegade decision is vindicated.

The Renegade is punished by the Paragon always working out, more so considering people don't care about the Paragon's decisions. Released the Rachni Queen? Oh, don't worry, nobody cares how you risked the entire galaxy after that first conversation.

The game's morality is shallow and doesn't reward thinking, it rewards blind optimism.