307 réponses à ce sujet

[Draconis6666]

wrdnshprd wrote...

DomainFairy wrote...
<snip>

the problem with his statement is a portion of the playerbase has to pay for the dlc, while another does not (just check twitter and the sticky, thats how the CE is being advertised), and he hasnt justified why this DLC is different than Zaeed or shale..

also, as ive said, it doesnt matter if multiplayer was added.  there are tons of games that include this feature at no extra charge, and on top of that, give us a complete game. 

and another thing, its only speculation that multiplayer was the replacement content for new game incentive .. and if it was, it still doesnt excuse them.. 

story driven content that is released for a game the same day as launch shouldnt be separated into monetized chunks EVER. 

you guys want to release content AFTER LAUNCH.. no problem.. the more the marrier..  but please dont nickle and dime us at launch.

You definatly have valid points and your entitled to your opinon on the matter, the problem I think that is really the issue here is that you have people with differeing opinions trying to convince each other that their opinion is more valid. Which is ussualy an unwinable argument for both sides. Neither side is really right or wrong on the issue because so much of it is opinion. You feel your being nickle and dimed other people dont agree, and thats where the issue is. EA and Bioware believe enough people feel differently than you do and have modeled their business around that idea. They arent wrong for doing that any more than you are wrong for disagreeing with them.

[Atakuma]

Cody211282 wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

DomainFairy wrote...
<snip>

 

and another thing, its only speculation that multiplayer was the replacement content for new game incentive .. and if it was, it still doesnt excuse them.. 

Bigger question, why is it being implemented at the end of this series lifespan, why is it a good idea to put it in a story driven single player game that puts action in the passenger seat to plot.

Why on a limeted time frame did they try to add in a completly new mode to the game when they could have tighted up the single player to the point of cutting dimonds?

I just don't know why multiplayer is in this to start with.

Multiplayer exists as a cheap attempt to sell more copies and as as a replacement for the project 10 dollar dlc.

[nitefyre410]

Cody211282 wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

DomainFairy wrote...
<snip>

 

and another thing, its only speculation that multiplayer was the replacement content for new game incentive .. and if it was, it still doesnt excuse them.. 

Bigger question, why is it being implemented at the end of this series lifespan, why is it a good idea to put it in a story driven single player game that puts action in the passenger seat to plot.

Why on a limeted time frame did they try to add in a completly new mode to the game when they could have tighted up the single player to the point of cutting dimonds?

I just don't know why multiplayer is in this to start with.

 

A couple of reasons, incentives seeing other series that have made that move successfullly like Assassins Creed and how it added value to the product.   RPGs really besides the  story driven content  have nothing else going for them so looking at the market and how  multiplayer is very big selling point when done right. Also the backlash against  Competitive  Multplayer and   partail void for a Co-Op experience... Borderlands tapped  into that very well.  They every structure of the RPG  makes it amost prime for a Co-op experince... MMO's  to do this very well but alot of people A . Don't want pay the subscribtion fee, B. understand enought about PC  to get a good gameing  rig. C . Don';t have the time to put into an  MMO .  

[squee913]

I posted this in my forums yesterday, but I'll throw it in here s it is about the same thing.

Finally, even if it does feel a little like they are just trying to squeeze more money out of you... take an economics class. Almost every company in the world does this. Sure, you got your Iphone, but now you have to pay an extra 30 bucks a month for data usage. Sure, you got your cable TV, but if you want movie channels its another 15 bucks. Sure, you have your X-box Live silver, but if you want to play online games with people you need to pay for gold. I don't see anyone complaining about that. Do you honestly think video games would not have done this 15 years ago if the technology had been there to do it? You can buy Mass Effect 3 as is and get a complete and finished story. Just like you can get X-box live silver and download everything you need to keep your game up to date. Or you can pay extra for the bells and whistles. This is nothing new, or unique to video games.

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.

[robmokron]

would you rather it be day 2 dlc? or you beat the game then you have to playy all over again just to see a prothy go "i hatez the reapers they killed my niggz"

[Red Son Rising]

[i really cant keep up with this pace. started and stopped 3 posts just tryin to be part of the convo]
i dont understand how so many ppl cannot understand how the development process works and why dlc has to be part of the PRE-production and developed alongside the main game

its just not practical to make dlc in post after the full game is complete. day one dlc? i get why ppl are throwing a hissy fit [deliberately dismissive] i just dont agree they have a leg to stand on

day one ME3 dlc was obviously planned from day one of development and im ok with that. it wasnt part of the main game, its another episode that fits into the main story: content was not removed

video games are not a fan service. BW managed to squeeze the rock and drip a lil dlc blood out for the CE only to have everyone else go apesh**. they gave CE paid dlc, it was never free

[nitefyre410]

squee913 wrote...

I posted this in my forums yesterday, but I'll throw it in here s it is about the same thing.

Finally, even if it does feel a little like they are just trying to squeeze more money out of you... take an economics class. Almost every company in the world does this. Sure, you got your Iphone, but now you have to pay an extra 30 bucks a month for data usage. Sure, you got your cable TV, but if you want movie channels its another 15 bucks. Sure, you have your X-box Live silver, but if you want to play online games with people you need to pay for gold. I don't see anyone complaining about that. Do you honestly think video games would not have done this 15 years ago if the technology had been there to do it? You can buy Mass Effect 3 as is and get a complete and finished story. Just like you can get X-box live silver and download everything you need to keep your game up to date. Or you can pay extra for the bells and whistles. This is nothing new, or unique to video games.

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.

 


See thats cool becuase   just like the car company I can choose not to buy from that company  and buy from another that offers the same features a  lower price or even better.

Just like  I can chose not to give Bioware my money and buy there games used instead of new off the self.. 

See Bioware and I are not seeing eye to  one somethings so that means as consumer.. I'm well with in my right to my business else..

I am Consumer and Customer  1st and a Fan second.

[Atakuma]

squee913 wrote...

I posted this in my forums yesterday, but I'll throw it in here s it is about the same thing.

Finally, even if it does feel a little like they are just trying to squeeze more money out of you... take an economics class. Almost every company in the world does this. Sure, you got your Iphone, but now you have to pay an extra 30 bucks a month for data usage. Sure, you got your cable TV, but if you want movie channels its another 15 bucks. Sure, you have your X-box Live silver, but if you want to play online games with people you need to pay for gold. I don't see anyone complaining about that. Do you honestly think video games would not have done this 15 years ago if the technology had been there to do it? You can buy Mass Effect 3 as is and get a complete and finished story. Just like you can get X-box live silver and download everything you need to keep your game up to date. Or you can pay extra for the bells and whistles. This is nothing new, or unique to video games.

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.

People complain about all of those things all of the time. Most of those examples don't make sense anyway because cable companies don't own the movie channels and apple doesn't own the wireless companies. The xbox is the only valid comparison because they are the only ones who charge for online play.

[Reptilian Rob]

How about we just all shut up and play some video games?

[wrdnshprd]

squee913 wrote...

I posted this in my forums yesterday, but I'll throw it in here s it is about the same thing.

Finally, even if it does feel a little like they are just trying to squeeze more money out of you... take an economics class. Almost every company in the world does this. Sure, you got your Iphone, but now you have to pay an extra 30 bucks a month for data usage. Sure, you got your cable TV, but if you want movie channels its another 15 bucks. Sure, you have your X-box Live silver, but if you want to play online games with people you need to pay for gold. I don't see anyone complaining about that. Do you honestly think video games would not have done this 15 years ago if the technology had been there to do it? You can buy Mass Effect 3 as is and get a complete and finished story. Just like you can get X-box live silver and download everything you need to keep your game up to date. Or you can pay extra for the bells and whistles. This is nothing new, or unique to video games.

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.

actually, if i buy the standard edition, i DONT get the complete story out of the box because its missing content included with the CE.  why?  because i, as a SE buyer, dont have access to content, you the CE buyer gets unless i pay extra.  to me it shouldnt matter if its liara, ashley, or a prothean thats missing, its still content being restricted from the game in order to monetize it.

and a bigger point is, this wasnt how ME2 worked at launch, or ME1 for that matter.. ALL story content was available to EVERYONE, as long as they bought the game at retail cost.

and ill repeat it again, LOTS of games include multiplayer with all versions of their game, and on top of that, give EVERYONE access to the same story driven content.. im just expecting bioware to follow the same practice.

[Atakuma]

wrdnshprd wrote...

squee913 wrote...

I posted this in my forums yesterday, but I'll throw it in here s it is about the same thing.

Finally, even if it does feel a little like they are just trying to squeeze more money out of you... take an economics class. Almost every company in the world does this. Sure, you got your Iphone, but now you have to pay an extra 30 bucks a month for data usage. Sure, you got your cable TV, but if you want movie channels its another 15 bucks. Sure, you have your X-box Live silver, but if you want to play online games with people you need to pay for gold. I don't see anyone complaining about that. Do you honestly think video games would not have done this 15 years ago if the technology had been there to do it? You can buy Mass Effect 3 as is and get a complete and finished story. Just like you can get X-box live silver and download everything you need to keep your game up to date. Or you can pay extra for the bells and whistles. This is nothing new, or unique to video games.

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.

actually, if i buy the standard edition, i DONT get the complete story out of the box because its missing content included with the CE.  why?  because i, as a SE buyer, dont have access to content, you the CE buyer gets unless i pay extra.  to me it shouldnt matter if its liara, ashley, or a prothean thats missing, its still content being restricted from the game in order to monetize it.

and a bigger point is, this wasnt how ME2 worked at launch, or ME1 for that matter.. ALL story content was available to EVERYONE, as long as they bought the game at retail cost.

and ill repeat it again, LOTS of games include multiplayer with all versions of their game, and on top of that, give EVERYONE access to the same story driven content.. im just expecting bioware to follow the same practice.

Exactly, I just don't understand what people find so unreasonable about this.

[squee913]

[quote]nitefyre410 wrote...

[quote]squee913 wrote...

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.[/quote]  


See thats cool becuase   just like the car company I can choose not to buy from that company  and buy from another that offers the same features a  lower price or even better.

Just like  I can chose not to give Bioware my money and buy there games used instead of new off the self.. 

See Bioware and I are not seeing eye to  one somethings so that means as consumer.. I'm well with in my right to my business else..

I am Consumer and Customer  1st and a Fan second.[/quote]
This, to me sounds like a sensible  point of view. You are not crying that EA/Browser have betrayed all that is good in the world, you simply treat them like a business.


[/quote]

[J.amber]

prothy is in the game, the dlc just gives the option to recruit him and a mission and as for the DLC in general debate .. someone last night mentioned something pretty good .. the cost of a game, hasn't really gone up in price in 20 years BUT for sure, the teams making the games have gone up in number and i'm pretty sure the salaries of people have gone up as well .. puts things in perspective, cost of game to consumers see little change but the cost of the game has gone up with that in mind, don't you think game companies, need extra revenues from someplace

[Red Son Rising]

nitefyre410 wrote...
See thats cool becuase   just like the car company I can choose not to buy from that company  and buy from another that offers the same features a  lower price or even better.

Just like  I can chose not to give Bioware my money and buy there games used instead of new off the self.. 

See Bioware and I are not seeing eye to  one somethings so that means as consumer.. I'm well with in my right to my business else..

I am Consumer and Customer  1st and a Fan second.

by that logic your not a customer and BW has no incentive to listen to any of your demands. do what you want but you cant have your cake and eat it to. you cant threaten to take your money elsewhere AND get what you want too. pick one

dodge doesnt car if you buy a camry, they want you to buy dodges. buy a used dodge if you want to but [in this case] yer not gettin parts unless you go back to the dealer: there is no aftermarket for dlc

[edit]

wrdnshprd wrote...
and a bigger point is, this wasnt how ME2 worked at launch, or ME1 for that matter.. ALL story content was available to EVERYONE, as long as they bought the game at retail cost.

ME2 was not imcomplete if you bought it used, zaeed is optional not manditory or necessary to finish the game. ME3 will be complete at launch new or used, the day one dlc is not manditory or necessary to finish the game

and lets not forget this is real dlc. assuming this isnt a small MB unlock on the main disc [which will cause an uproar] BW is making more game available day one. im all for that, i want more and i want it more often

Modifié par Red Son Rising, 24 février 2012 - 11:34 .

[nitefyre410]

Red Son Rising wrote...

[i really cant keep up with this pace. started and stopped 3 posts just tryin to be part of the convo]
i dont understand how so many ppl cannot understand how the development process works and why dlc has to be part of the PRE-production and developed alongside the main game

its just not practical to make dlc in post after the full game is complete. day one dlc? i get why ppl are throwing a hissy fit [deliberately dismissive] i just dont agree they have a leg to stand on

day one ME3 dlc was obviously planned from day one of development and im ok with that. it wasnt part of the main game, its another episode that fits into the main story: content was not removed

video games are not a fan service. BW managed to squeeze the rock and drip a lil dlc blood out for the CE only to have everyone else go apesh**. they gave CE paid dlc, it was never free

Its does not matter if it was cut or not, it does not matter if it was developed some time,  in the moments afterwards planned... whatever.

The very fact that Bioware feels that the  Collector Edition/Day paid DLC   are also  playable usable game characters... is something that I as consumer do agree with.. So they are with in there right to do that...just like I am with my right not buy their games new and buy used or buy the DLC .

They don't have to change  I can't control Bioware but I do know I can keep my money in my wallet... just because I'm a fan does mean I'll just throw money at Bioware.  

Either they should have A . Cut him complete out of both editons or B.  Cut him out ..gave the CE customer a code  from the DLC and released it later after release for eveyrone else to pay for if they wanted.  Now thats what they should or could have done.. they did not and they most like will not now or in furture...

So as consumer I choose not to business with them .

[PSUHammer]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

How about we just all shut up and play some video games?

Word

[Kreidian]

A friend of mine wrote a blog post about this. Goes into great detail about all the arguments people are making.

http://bit.ly/ybcLNx

[squee913]

wrdnshprd wrote... Actually, if i buy the standard edition, i DONT get the complete story out of the box because its missing content included with the CE.  why?  because i, as a SE buyer, dont have access to content, you the CE buyer gets unless i pay extra.  to me it shouldnt matter if its liara, ashley, or a prothean thats missing, its still content being restricted from the game in order to monetize it.

and a bigger point is, this wasnt how ME2 worked at launch, or ME1 for that matter.. ALL story content was available to EVERYONE, as long as they bought the game at retail cost.

and ill repeat it again, LOTS of games include multiplayer with all versions of their game, and on top of that, give EVERYONE access to the same story driven content.. im just expecting bioware to follow the same practice.

This argument only works if I got the CE for the same price you got the SE. I am still paying extra for the DLC just like you. We are both still paying for the bells and whistles. And ME1 or 2 were not as large as this game is. Things are always cut from games for space/ budget reasons. This is a way to still develop something that might never have made it otherwise. For all you know, without DLC Prothy would still be on the cutting room floor.

[Tsantilas]

We want to sell this game for 70 bucks, but no one will pay that much because the standard for an AAA title is 60 bucks.  I know!  Lets develop some content on the side and sell it for 10 bucks claiming that it's a bonus!  Those suckers will eat it right up!

A lot of people keep using the whole "game development isn't a charity" and "you're a bunch of spoiled kids, if you want bonus content you should pay for it" argument.  Let me ask you this.  How do you measure the content of a game?  Take 2 different AAA titles, costing 60 bucks each.  Same price, so content and quality should theoretically be equal, right?  Who comes up with these price tags?  Do gamers ever stop and think "hmm, is this game really worth 60 bucks"?  Maybe ME3 should only cost 50 bucks, and the DLC should be 5.  

Buying DLC helps to pay for continued support for a game.  Developers don't patch games for free.  It costs resources, time, people need to be payed.  Cool.  But if there's an issue with the game that needs to be patched then that means the game wasn't complete at launch, and something slipped past the testers, correct?  So basically you bought a flawed product... but you find it reasonable to pay extra for it to be corrected?  If Volkswagen releases a new VW golf, and it turns out that the electronics go haywire at a certain engine temperature (just an example, whatever) they'll recall them all and have the issue corrected or face a ****storm.  Don't game companies then have a responsibility to patch their games for free?  They do, and they do.

When you sell a product, it stands to reason that the product should be in working order.  There's a HUGE difference between bonus features - whether it's bonus weapons and costumes in a game, or leather seats in a car (as opposed to normal seats) - and features that should be included in the final product anyway, like windows in a car and important plot developments in a book (or game *cough*).

With games we have standard editions, and collectors editions, which generally have extra stuff like ingame cosmetic items, art books, soundtracks, posters, keychains, whatever.  When did it become ok to pay for extra story content that will be available at the same time as the official release?  "But you don't need the DLC to complete the game".  I don't "need" to play the game at all to complete life.  What's your point?  In the entertainment business there is no such thing as "need".  It's about being entertained.  Expansion packs and DLC supposedly add extra content developed separately and/or at a later date to add extra content to a game to prolong it's life.  Releasing a game on the same day in separate parts for additional cost?  That's just shenanigans right there.

[nitefyre410]

Red Son Rising wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
See thats cool becuase   just like the car company I can choose not to buy from that company  and buy from another that offers the same features a  lower price or even better.

Just like  I can chose not to give Bioware my money and buy there games used instead of new off the self.. 

See Bioware and I are not seeing eye to  one somethings so that means as consumer.. I'm well with in my right to my business else..

I am Consumer and Customer  1st and a Fan second.

by that logic your not a customer and BW has no incentive to listen to any of your demands. do what you want but you cant have your cake and eat it to. you cant threaten to take your money elsewhere AND get what you want too. pick one
 

dodge doesnt car if you buy a camry, they want you to buy dodges. buy a used dodge if you want to but [in this case] yer not gettin parts unless you go back to the dealer: there is no aftermarket for dlc

[edit]

wrdnshprd wrote...
and a bigger point is, this wasnt how ME2 worked at launch, or ME1 for that matter.. ALL story content was available to EVERYONE, as long as they bought the game at retail cost.

ME2 was not imcomplete if you bought it used, zaeed is optional not manditory or necessary to finish the game. ME3 will be complete at launch new or used, the day one dlc is not manditory or necessary to finish the game

and lets not forget this is real dlc. assuming this isnt a small MB unlock on the main disc [which will cause an uproar] BW is making more game available day one. im all for that, i want more and i want it more often

 

When have I demand anything of Bioware... They don't have do  anything 

Just like I don';t have to give my money or give them as little of my money as I want.  

No demands are being made... Bioware offered the product.. we don;t see eye to eye on its worth...  I  am buying the product... or this case  buying their games New off the self..I will get them used. and If i want the dlc I will buy it if not I won 't.

No demands are being made.

[Red Son Rising]

nitefyre410 wrote...

So as consumer I choose not to business with them .

so again, yer not a customer and BW has no reason to listen to you at all. BW is using your own model, business first and fans second: they charge for the content and do what they can for fans second

the equation seems to be backwards: i think the dlc was always paid, theyre giving it to CE owners as fanservice. fanservice is not required, its not profitable and its not gauranteed

ill be critical as a Paying Customer. i cant take ppl seriously that threaten to take their money away and expect to get something for it. 

[EDIT] @Nitefyre

you are making demands. evaluating the offering and making a financial decision based on your opinion privately isnt a big deal. airing that decision and chiming into the discussion makes it a demand and makes it a threat

Modifié par Red Son Rising, 24 février 2012 - 11:43 .

[Draconis6666]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Red Son Rising wrote...

[i really cant keep up with this pace. started and stopped 3 posts just tryin to be part of the convo]
i dont understand how so many ppl cannot understand how the development process works and why dlc has to be part of the PRE-production and developed alongside the main game

its just not practical to make dlc in post after the full game is complete. day one dlc? i get why ppl are throwing a hissy fit [deliberately dismissive] i just dont agree they have a leg to stand on

day one ME3 dlc was obviously planned from day one of development and im ok with that. it wasnt part of the main game, its another episode that fits into the main story: content was not removed

video games are not a fan service. BW managed to squeeze the rock and drip a lil dlc blood out for the CE only to have everyone else go apesh**. they gave CE paid dlc, it was never free

Its does not matter if it was cut or not, it does not matter if it was developed some time,  in the moments afterwards planned... whatever.

The very fact that Bioware feels that the  Collector Edition/Day paid DLC   are also  playable usable game characters... is something that I as consumer do agree with.. So they are with in there right to do that...just like I am with my right not buy their games new and buy used or buy the DLC .

They don't have to change  I can't control Bioware but I do know I can keep my money in my wallet... just because I'm a fan does mean I'll just throw money at Bioware.  

Either they should have A . Cut him complete out of both editons or B.  Cut him out ..gave the CE customer a code  from the DLC and released it later after release for eveyrone else to pay for if they wanted.  Now thats what they should or could have done.. they did not and they most like will not now or in furture...

So as consumer I choose not to business with them .

Your argument is that if they just waited you would pay but because they gave you the content sooner you wont? That seems flawed to me but you are entitled to your opinon and can spend your money how you want of course. Maybe I'm not understanding what your saying, but B sounds to me like if they had cut him, then waited to release it youd have been ok paying but you wont pay them for the exact same thing and the exact same work because they gave it to you sooner.

To me it shouldnt be about when the DLC is released, to determine if you want to pay for it or not. The argument should be if you feel the $60 copy of the game is worth $60 without the DLC and if the $10 DLC is worth 10. It shouldnt matter when the DLC is released its either worth what they want for it or it isnt and the same with the main game.

Modifié par Draconis6666, 24 février 2012 - 11:45 .

[packardbell]

Hmm.. when you put it that way guess I'll buy it, whats £6?

[nitefyre410]

Red Son Rising wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

So as consumer I choose not to business with them .

so again, yer not a customer and BW has no reason to listen to you at all. BW is using your own model, business first and fans second: they charge for the content and do what they can for fans second

the equation seems to be backwards: i think the dlc was always paid, theyre giving it to CE owners as fanservice. fanservice is not required, its not profitable and its not gauranteed

ill be critical as a Paying Customer. i cant take ppl seriously that threaten to take their money away and expect to get something for it. 

[EDIT] @Nitefyre

you are making demands. evaluating the offering and making a financial decision based on your opinion privately isnt a big deal. airing that decision and chiming into the discussion makes it a demand and makes it a threat

 

Yeah Aight.

[DaJe]

I know how it works and I still think the prothean should be part of the main game. If that means that he is Day 1 DLC, that is available to everyone who bought the game new, then that is totally fine.

Many games do not come with a ton of DLC for launch and sell just fine. This is not how the industry works. This is how EA works.