307 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Draconis6666 wrote...

*snip*

 

Nope never said  I  would pay but  it would look at better then this... I  still  would not  pay ..especailly  after  this was leaked.

I should have clarified my statement... I was mere stating a better way this could have been handled by Bioware not away  would fix  or change my opinion. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 24 février 2012 - 11:48 .

[Draconis6666]

DaJe wrote...

I know how it works and I still think the prothean should be part of the main game. If that means that he is Day 1 DLC, that is available to everyone who bought the game new, then that is totally fine.

Many games do not come with a ton of DLC for launch and sell just fine. This is not how the industry works. This is how EA works.

EA is one of the largest developers and represents a significant portion of the industry.  So no it is not the way the industry as a whole operates but it is a significant part of the industry. Not even all EA games have tons of launch DLC.

[Red Son Rising]

Tsantilas wrote...A lot of people keep using the whole "game development isn't a charity" and "you're a bunch of spoiled kids, if you want bonus content you should pay for it" argument.  Let me ask you this.  How do you measure the content of a game?  

i measure my money in time. if i spend 100hrs with a $60 game ill spend another $10 to make the next 100hrs more interesting. im not balancing the meter on the money, its on the time i spend with it

video games are a TREMENDOUS value per dollar. one $12 movie lasts 2hrs: i can buy a $15 $20 $30 games that will last 100s of hrs, no other medium has that kind of value per dollar. time is worth my money and ill pay for a good time

[Draconis6666]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

*snip*

 

Nope never said  I  would pay but  it would look at better then this... I  still  would not  pay ..especailly  after  this was leaked.

I should have clarified my statement... I was mere stating a better way this could have been handled by Bioware not away  would fix  or change my opinion. 

Right ok then yeah i can see your point in that case, but I also dont think they should have to do that to make it look better, because when its released shouldnt matter the only thing that should matter is if you think the product is worht the $ they want you to pay for it. Which you dont and thats fine thats your right to chose how to spend your money.

[wrdnshprd]

squee913 wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote... Actually, if i buy the standard edition, i DONT get the complete story out of the box because its missing content included with the CE.  why?  because i, as a SE buyer, dont have access to content, you the CE buyer gets unless i pay extra.  to me it shouldnt matter if its liara, ashley, or a prothean thats missing, its still content being restricted from the game in order to monetize it.

and a bigger point is, this wasnt how ME2 worked at launch, or ME1 for that matter.. ALL story content was available to EVERYONE, as long as they bought the game at retail cost.

and ill repeat it again, LOTS of games include multiplayer with all versions of their game, and on top of that, give EVERYONE access to the same story driven content.. im just expecting bioware to follow the same practice.

This argument only works if I got the CE for the same price you got the SE. I am still paying extra for the DLC just like you. We are both still paying for the bells and whistles. And ME1 or 2 were not as large as this game is. Things are always cut from games for space/ budget reasons. This is a way to still develop something that might never have made it otherwise. For all you know, without DLC Prothy would still be on the cutting room floor.

if i buy the DLC as a SE player, do i get access to any of this:

• Premium metal case featuring commemorative artwork of Commander Shepard.
• 70-page hardbound art book featuring hundreds of unique and gorgeous illustrations from the BioWare development team.
• Limited edition Mass Effect comic by Dark Horse Comics, complete with unique cover artwork.
• Join the ranks of the N7 with the premium fabric N7 patch.
• Exclusive 4x6 lithographic print featuring a one-of-a-kind piece of artwork.
• A full collection of in-game content that can't be found anywhere else!
  
  • N7 Arsenal Pack - Bring the firepower with the N7 Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, SMG, and Pistol.
  • Robotic Dog - A faithful sidekick to keep you company on board the Normandy.
  • Squadmate Alternate Outfit Pack - New appearances for your favorite squad members.
  • N7 Hoodie - For Commander Shepard's casual days on board the Normandy.
• Relive all the greatest moments of Mass Effect 3 with the digital soundtrack.
• Xbox LIVE Normandy prop for your Avatar. (Available on Xbox 360 version only.)
• Display your initiation in the N7 ranks with a collection of forum and social badges, avatars, and perks.

the answer is obviously no.  THAT is what your $20 is going for.  NOT the dlc.  bioware is advertising this as such.. all you have to do is read the sticky and check twitter.

also, have you played the game yet?  no?  neither did i.  thus, we have no basis for comparison as of yet

Modifié par wrdnshprd, 24 février 2012 - 11:54 .

[Red Son Rising]

ok, ill meet the fury halfway between hell and a handbasket. would it be nice if devs made all day one dlc available to all new buyers for free? sure. doesnt mean its a practical request or a reasonable demand

Bold Statement
i dont feel bad for ppl that "have to'' pay for day one dlc because nobody is twisting their arm to buy it. games can be enriched by dlc, games shud not be considered incomplete because dlc exists

Modifié par Red Son Rising, 24 février 2012 - 11:57 .

[Tsantilas]

Red Son Rising wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...A lot of people keep using the whole "game development isn't a charity" and "you're a bunch of spoiled kids, if you want bonus content you should pay for it" argument.  Let me ask you this.  How do you measure the content of a game?  

i measure my money in time. if i spend 100hrs with a $60 game ill spend another $10 to make the next 100hrs more interesting. im not balancing the meter on the money, its on the time i spend with it

video games are a TREMENDOUS value per dollar. one $12 movie lasts 2hrs: i can buy a $15 $20 $30 games that will last 100s of hrs, no other medium has that kind of value per dollar. time is worth my money and ill pay for a good time

Yes I agree with you, and movie prices are a whole different story... but what makes 2 different games equal in price?  If a sidescrolling platformer offers you 100 hours of content, is it still worth 60 bucks?  That isn't the point I'm trying to make.  If Mass Effect 3 was released with the "From Ashes" DLC included in the standard edition, would you feel like "hey this game offered more content than most games for 60 bucks, so I'd pay 70 bucks instead"?  EA is selling it separately, so you think "hey this is extra stuff!  I should buy it!"  Soon we'll be paying a flat fee every time we press "new game" because we already got our money's worth on the first playthrough.  DONT GO GETTING ANY IDEAS EA.

[riddick 116]

I still think they're going at this the wrong way, i feel they should have just included him with the online pass. if they truely want to fight used games sales they should have included him, not just online mp (if anything its going to cause more to want to get it used, or pirated it). 

As for the OP pic, i would agree with it but weve known about him since june and hell some of his audio files are in the demo so to me that says they had him planned all along. 

[nitefyre410]

Tsantilas wrote...

Red Son Rising wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...A lot of people keep using the whole "game development isn't a charity" and "you're a bunch of spoiled kids, if you want bonus content you should pay for it" argument.  Let me ask you this.  How do you measure the content of a game?  

i measure my money in time. if i spend 100hrs with a $60 game ill spend another $10 to make the next 100hrs more interesting. im not balancing the meter on the money, its on the time i spend with it

video games are a TREMENDOUS value per dollar. one $12 movie lasts 2hrs: i can buy a $15 $20 $30 games that will last 100s of hrs, no other medium has that kind of value per dollar. time is worth my money and ill pay for a good time

Yes I agree with you, and movie prices are a whole different story... but what makes 2 different games equal in price?  If a sidescrolling platformer offers you 100 hours of content, is it still worth 60 bucks?  That isn't the point I'm trying to make.  If Mass Effect 3 was released with the "From Ashes" DLC included in the standard edition, would you feel like "hey this game offered more content than most games for 60 bucks, so I'd pay 70 bucks instead"?  EA is selling it separately, so you think "hey this is extra stuff!  I should buy it!"  Soon we'll be paying a flat fee every time we press "new game" because we already got our money's worth on the first playthrough.  DONT GO GETTING ANY IDEAS EA.

 

EA : :innocent:

Modifié par nitefyre410, 25 février 2012 - 12:00 .

[slimgrin]

Here's how CDPR works: they give everything that isn't an expansion away for free. Suck it EA.

[hawat333]

Considering that Portal 2 has/had skins and caps to buy for third the price of that DLC that's causing so much hysteria (rightful or not), it's not even overpriced. Just thinking out loud here.

[Red Son Rising]

Tsantilas wrote...
Yes I agree with you, and movie prices are a whole different story... but what makes 2 different games equal in price?  If a sidescrolling platformer offers you 100 hours of content, is it still worth 60 bucks?  That isn't the point I'm trying to make.  If Mass Effect 3 was released with the "From Ashes" DLC included in the standard edition, would you feel like "hey this game offered more content than most games for 60 bucks, so I'd pay 70 bucks instead"?  EA is selling it separately, so you think "hey this is extra stuff!  I should buy it!"  Soon we'll be paying a flat fee every time we press "new game" because we already got our money's worth on the first playthrough.  DONT GO GETTING ANY IDEAS EA.

first problem: all $60 games are not created equal. video game prices are the product of retail contracts, publishing deals and the eventual discounting of the product as it ages. just because theyre priced the same doesnt mean theyre equals

using your example i dont play side scrollers: i dont care how much content you stuff in a $10 package, im not gonna play the game. period. not $10 or $5, $2 is too much for a game i dont care about. thats $60 saved, stayin in my pocket

Bold Statement
if you want the physical bonus content in my CE packages send me a message and we'll figure out who gets it: i bought the CE for the all of the dlc associated with the package: i dont care one bit about anything thats not in game

im actually furious PS3 gets an ME3 digital download and XBL doesnt get the same thing. i dont want the disc, i want the game. ill trade all my physical content for the CE to get it digitally along with the day one dlc on launch day

[edit] speed posting, tryin to beat the next post
second problem: i dont subscribe to slippery slope arguments. gaming is getting better because of dlc, not in spite of it. we are getting more content for the same price relative to the games and consoles we're playing

gaming is an expensive habit. gaming has always been supported by adults with disposable income: its easy to lie to ppl and say gaming is for kids because it makes it easier to dismiss gamers as immature. that is not the case

dlc is not the end of gaming. if ea wanted to charge me for NG+ they better have a damn good business model behind it or ill just delete my game save and start over. im a gamer AND a consumer, im not stupid

Modifié par Red Son Rising, 25 février 2012 - 12:08 .

[Tsantilas]

Red Son Rising wrote...

Bold Statement
if you want the physical bonus content in my CE packages send me a message and we'll figure out who gets it: i bought the CE for the all of the dlc associated with the package: i dont care one bit about anything thats not in game

im actually furious PS3 gets an ME3 digital download and XBL doesnt get the same thing. i dont want the disc, i want the game. ill trade all my physical content for the CE to get it digitally along with the day one dlc on launch day

[edit] speed posting, tryin to beat the next post
second problem: i dont subscribe to slippery slope arguments. gaming is getting better because of dlc, not in spite of it. we are getting more content for the same price relative to the games and consoles we're playing

gaming is an expensive habit. gaming has always been supported by adults with disposable income: its easy to lie to ppl and say gaming is for kids because it makes it easier to dismiss gamers as immature. that is not the case

dlc is not the end of gaming. if ea wanted to charge me for NG+ they better have a damn good business model behind it or ill just delete my game save and start over. im a gamer AND a consumer, im not stupid

Collector's editions have always been about extra physical content though.  "Making of" dvds, artbooks, comics, figurines, and what have you.  You find it reasonable that people buying CE get "more game" than the standard edition?  I don't mind dlc.  Adding extra content to a game I enjoy at a later date for extra fun is a good thing.  What I can't agree with, is chopping up the game on release using some lame excuse like "it was developed separately" just to make extra money.  I enjoyed the Lair of the Shadow Broker dlc, even though it added extra story to the game, because it didn't **** around with the plot of ME3.  Arrival on the otherhand completely messed with how the story went for me.  I felt like I had finished reading a book, and then later got an extra chapter saying "oh and this happened".

[Red Son Rising]

Tsantilas wrote...
Collector's editions have always been about extra physical content though.  "Making of" dvds, artbooks, comics, figurines, and what have you.  You find it reasonable that people buying CE get "more game" than the standard edition?  I don't mind dlc.  Adding extra content to a game I enjoy at a later date for extra fun is a good thing.  What I can't agree with, is chopping up the game on release using some lame excuse like "it was developed separately" just to make extra money.  I enjoyed the Lair of the Shadow Broker dlc, even though it added extra story to the game, because it didn't **** around with the plot of ME3.  Arrival on the otherhand completely messed with how the story went for me.  I felt like I had finished reading a book, and then later got an extra chapter saying "oh and this happened".

i see all the physical junk in the CE box and i have to cringe, i hate bringing all that junk into my apartment cause one day i have to cart it back down the stairs to a dumpster. id rather watch the videos on youtube and look at screenshots and concept art on an ME website than open a box and throw it all in my closet

LotSB is a great example of my problem with ME2. i absolutely love LotSB but it took too long to come out, i wanted content like that around the time the first skin packs came out, certainly before stolen memories dropped

i want a steady stream of dlc from day one until a sequel is announced. that means devs have to work on it alongside the full game and im perfectly fine with that. ME dlc would never come out if they only worked on it in post production

[PSUHammer]

slimgrin wrote...

Here's how CDPR works: they give everything that isn't an expansion away for free. Suck it EA.

The beauty of it is you don't HAVE to buy EA products.  It is all personal choice!  Yay!

[nitefyre410]

Hammer6767 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Here's how CDPR works: they give everything that isn't an expansion away for free. Suck it EA.

The beauty of it is you don't HAVE to buy EA products.  It is all personal choice!  Yay!

 

I wonder how long that is going to last the big and more popular CDPR  gets..especially with the Witcher 2 coming this year to consoles..  

not saying they are going become "money grubing dirty liars."  but the moving to consoles they are moving to a bigger  market  where they  have to go through  MS and Sony to  give there non-expansion DLC to there cusomters.

I do expect there is going to be some change  once they Witcher 2 releases and they announce there next title.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 25 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[Draconis6666]

slimgrin wrote...

Here's how CDPR works: they give everything that isn't an expansion away for free. Suck it EA.

They also are a small developer and not a huge coporation with thousands of shareholders and projects who have to show overall profits. All CDPR has to do to be successful is make a single game that makes them money. EA has to make enough money to recover all the money they spend on all projects to show net profits and increase the value of their shareholder's shares or those shareholders will stop buying shares and stop investing in their company. You can run your business however you want when you dont have a thousand people expecting something of you.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Draconis6666 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Here's how CDPR works: they give everything that isn't an expansion away for free. Suck it EA.

They also are a small developer and not a huge coporation with thousands of shareholders and projects who have to show overall profits. All CDPR has to do to be successful is make a single game that makes them money. EA has to make enough money to recover all the money they spend on all projects to show net profits and increase the value of their shareholder's shares or those shareholders will stop buying shares and stop investing in their company. You can run your business however you want when you dont have a thousand people expecting something of you.

Poor example. They also messed up with DRM, had many defect CE editions (broken busts, BUT that didn't happen to me, so I don't know if that was really a big problem), and then did all that free stuff as a PR move. 

However, that greatly devalued the Collector's Edition that wasn't as successful for them as they hoped such as those who wouldn't put up with the mess (whether that meant a new bust over and over again or the DLC problem)

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 25 février 2012 - 01:20 .

[nitefyre410]

[quote]squee913 wrote...

[quote]nitefyre410 wrote...

[quote]squee913 wrote...

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.[/quote]  


See thats cool becuase   just like the car company I can choose not to buy from that company  and buy from another that offers the same features a  lower price or even better.

Just like  I can chose not to give Bioware my money and buy there games used instead of new off the self.. 

See Bioware and I are not seeing eye to  one somethings so that means as consumer.. I'm well with in my right to my business else..

I am Consumer and Customer  1st and a Fan second.[/quote]
This, to me sounds like a sensible  point of view. You are not crying that EA/Browser have betrayed all that is good in the world, you simply treat them like a business.


[/quote]
[/quote] 

Thats what they  are after all just a buisness...

the princple behind that  old saying   housewives and   well you know the rest.

Bioware is a buisness and buisness that has a good rep with its fans in some cases but a buisness none the less.

[PSUHammer]

Draconis6666 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Here's how CDPR works: they give everything that isn't an expansion away for free. Suck it EA.

They also are a small developer and not a huge coporation with thousands of shareholders and projects who have to show overall profits. All CDPR has to do to be successful is make a single game that makes them money. EA has to make enough money to recover all the money they spend on all projects to show net profits and increase the value of their shareholder's shares or those shareholders will stop buying shares and stop investing in their company. You can run your business however you want when you dont have a thousand people expecting something of you.

Interestingly enough, CDPR's wallet friendly methods are what some people point to as ways to reduce piracy by treating fans right.  The irony is they said Witcher 2 was pirated almost 5 million times by their estimate.  Guess that theory goes out the window.

[PSUHammer]

nitefyre410 wrote...

squee913 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

squee913 wrote...

To me, this is no different than saying car companies are evil for making you pay extra for power windows. The car was designed with power windows available, but it cost more money to do it, so you have to pay extra for them.

 


See thats cool becuase   just like the car company I can choose not to buy from that company  and buy from another that offers the same features a  lower price or even better.

Just like  I can chose not to give Bioware my money and buy there games used instead of new off the self.. 

See Bioware and I are not seeing eye to  one somethings so that means as consumer.. I'm well with in my right to my business else..

I am Consumer and Customer  1st and a Fan second.

This, to me sounds like a sensible  point of view. You are not crying that EA/Browser have betrayed all that is good in the world, you simply treat them like a business.

Thats what they  are after all just a buisness...

the princple behind that  old saying   housewives and   well you know the rest.

Bioware is a buisness and buisness that has a good rep with its fans in some cases but a buisness none the less.

A rational fan amongst a mass of craziness.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 25 février 2012 - 01:26 .

[nitefyre410]

Hammer6767 wrote...



A rational fan amongst a mass of craziness.

   

Oh Thats  always been...

I still think there story is complete BS ... but they're not going change it and they can't back up from their positon now...

So after March 6th  I will just take my new game buisness elsewhere  and buy there games used and If the DLC is what I feel is worth  the price I will buy it.. if not I  won't.    I feel bad for the workers at  Bioware because I have been in there shoes when I worked over phone Customer Service for Comcast... it sucks they have suffer becasue some in upper managment made smart buisness move but a bad customer service move.  

[Il Divo]

nitefyre410 wrote...

When have I demand anything of Bioware... They don't have do  anything 

Just like I don';t have to give my money or give them as little of my money as I want.  

No demands are being made... Bioware offered the product.. we don;t see eye to eye on its worth...  I  am buying the product... or this case  buying their games New off the self..I will get them used. and If i want the dlc I will buy it if not I won 't.

No demands are being made.

I really wish more people would take this approach, rather than giving into hyperbole and general craziness.

[nitefyre410]

Il Divo wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

When have I demand anything of Bioware... They don't have do  anything 

Just like I don';t have to give my money or give them as little of my money as I want.  

No demands are being made... Bioware offered the product.. we don;t see eye to eye on its worth...  I  am buying the product... or this case  buying their games New off the self..I will get them used. and If i want the dlc I will buy it if not I won 't.

No demands are being made.

I really wish more people would take this approach, rather than giving into hyperbole and general craziness.

 

because they don't understand agrueing with Bioware  over this is like argueing with your girlfriend ... you lose... no matter what.

[Dragoonlordz]

wrdnshprd wrote...

 -snip-

You do not get to tell them what they are getting for their money and what they are not, thats Bioware's job.

The extra character and mission was advertised will be with the CE and has been for months (your creative editing is not valid), they did not say what that character was and this is where most are throwing hissy fits and toys out the pram. But people ordered because that was part of the product offered at the time. You can't say people should not get that just because now your throwing a fit over what race the character is, that is what was advertised, that is what they paid for and that is what they should get.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 février 2012 - 01:51 .