307 réponses à ce sujet

[Pineappletree]

Nicely made and true chart, won't reach the people it's directed at though.

[AndrewRogue]

Thanks for posting. While it is impossible to know the exact circumstances behind why certain decisions are made, it is good to get information.

[Anaraky]

Xivai wrote...

Option C would be a waste of everyone god damn time, and on top of that the development team who did the core game would be split up all gone. I sure as hell know I wouldn't stick around 3 months praying to god I get rehired by Bioware for DLC work. More so if they have a family to feed. Meaning the original team who does the awesome game is shattered.

It wastes consumers time who want the DLC. It wasted the developers time, the programmers time. It just wastes everyone's god damn time. That's why option C isn't an option.

Or they could make it and release it with the game as an added bonus as a nice perk for the fans. Even if we assume it is physically impossible for them to do something without it profiting them it would generate goodwill and help their reputation. Word of mouth and the like is a great asset when it comes to the gaming community. Just look at games such as League of Legends or the upcoming Guild Wars 2. Both massive at the moment largely because of word of mouth.

But no, must get the extra $10. As we all now, Bioware and EA would risk bankruptcy otherwise.

[aj2070]

FdL_Ananas wrote...

Nicely made and true chart, won't reach the people it's directed at though.

I think it has.  Now will it reach the people who it should, that is a different story.

[Xivai]

Anaraky wrote...

Xivai wrote...

Option C would be a waste of everyone god damn time, and on top of that the development team who did the core game would be split up all gone. I sure as hell know I wouldn't stick around 3 months praying to god I get rehired by Bioware for DLC work. More so if they have a family to feed. Meaning the original team who does the awesome game is shattered.

It wastes consumers time who want the DLC. It wasted the developers time, the programmers time. It just wastes everyone's god damn time. That's why option C isn't an option.

Or they could make it and release it with the game as an added bonus as a nice perk for the fans. Even if we assume it is physically impossible for them to do something without it profiting them it would generate goodwill and help their reputation. Word of mouth and the like is a great asset when it comes to the gaming community. Just look at games such as League of Legends or the upcoming Guild Wars 2. Both massive at the moment largely because of word of mouth.

But no, must get the extra $10. As we all now, Bioware and EA would risk bankruptcy otherwise.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have any wants. Yuea, they could do that. All I'm saying is Bioware/EA aren't the villains this time. I never said they were "good" either. Just squarely neutral. People blew this thing way out of proportion.

[Anaraky]

Xivai wrote...

Anaraky wrote...

Xivai wrote...

Option C would be a waste of everyone god damn time, and on top of that the development team who did the core game would be split up all gone. I sure as hell know I wouldn't stick around 3 months praying to god I get rehired by Bioware for DLC work. More so if they have a family to feed. Meaning the original team who does the awesome game is shattered.

It wastes consumers time who want the DLC. It wasted the developers time, the programmers time. It just wastes everyone's god damn time. That's why option C isn't an option.

Or they could make it and release it with the game as an added bonus as a nice perk for the fans. Even if we assume it is physically impossible for them to do something without it profiting them it would generate goodwill and help their reputation. Word of mouth and the like is a great asset when it comes to the gaming community. Just look at games such as League of Legends or the upcoming Guild Wars 2. Both massive at the moment largely because of word of mouth.

But no, must get the extra $10. As we all now, Bioware and EA would risk bankruptcy otherwise.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have any wants. Yuea, they could do that. All I'm saying is Bioware/EA aren't the villains this time. I never said they were "good" either. Just squarely neutral. People blew this thing way out of proportion.

Depends on your point of view I suppose. To me personally it is extremely distasteful and even if the money isn't an issue, I'm not going to support a company that does those kind of stunts. Day one DLCs feels iffy ethics-wise to start with and doubly so if it contains something with huge relevance to the lore. It actually does ****** quite a bit of people off as you might have seen. If not Totalbiscuits video regarding this is a good example, half a million views in two days and a large majority of thumbs up. That kind of bad coverage could potentially offset whatever they gain by doing the whole day one DLC thing so poorly.

[NegativelyChrgd]

What a lovely, opinionated little analysis. Amazing how few people disagree, you can still have disagreements and discuss them here right? The dissonance people go through to justify this is quite interesting. Obviously the industry is just too complex for the average gamer to comprehend. How dare the consumers get upset when they buy a $60 game only to have new content that must be paid for days/weeks after launch. How arrogant of them to think about this from their perspective and not the Industry's. I just find a little presumptuous to make it look like people who don't like giving up even more money for a game that they just paid sixty dollars for seem like short-sighted whiners to say the least. It is a shame but you can't make them change their ways, all you can really do is just refuse to purchase it. Even then they'll likely find ways to get around that! Like others have said, it's really about the $$$! XD

I'm positive Mass Effect 3 by itself is going to be awesome though, can't wait! Just happy that we don't have to pay a premium to play the multiplayer or anything like that... At least not yet!

[Xivai]

Anaraky wrote...

Xivai wrote...

Anaraky wrote...

Xivai wrote...

Option C would be a waste of everyone god damn time, and on top of that the development team who did the core game would be split up all gone. I sure as hell know I wouldn't stick around 3 months praying to god I get rehired by Bioware for DLC work. More so if they have a family to feed. Meaning the original team who does the awesome game is shattered.

It wastes consumers time who want the DLC. It wasted the developers time, the programmers time. It just wastes everyone's god damn time. That's why option C isn't an option.

Or they could make it and release it with the game as an added bonus as a nice perk for the fans. Even if we assume it is physically impossible for them to do something without it profiting them it would generate goodwill and help their reputation. Word of mouth and the like is a great asset when it comes to the gaming community. Just look at games such as League of Legends or the upcoming Guild Wars 2. Both massive at the moment largely because of word of mouth.

But no, must get the extra $10. As we all now, Bioware and EA would risk bankruptcy otherwise.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have any wants. Yuea, they could do that. All I'm saying is Bioware/EA aren't the villains this time. I never said they were "good" either. Just squarely neutral. People blew this thing way out of proportion.

Depends on your point of view I suppose. To me personally it is extremely distasteful and even if the money isn't an issue, I'm not going to support a company that does those kind of stunts. Day one DLCs feels iffy ethics-wise to start with and doubly so if it contains something with huge relevance to the lore. It actually does ****** quite a bit of people off as you might have seen. If not Totalbiscuits video regarding this is a good example, half a million views in two days and a large majority of thumbs up. That kind of bad coverage could potentially offset whatever they gain by doing the whole day one DLC thing so poorly.

This is the one time where TB didn't do the research. I've looked at the spoilers. The Prothean is a mote of dust in the large expanse of gameplay that is ME3. It isn't important. It is, but not really. THere's bigger problems and things in your war on the Reaper, and tons tons tons more of them too. He's ajust a neat little sidequest that incidentally helps you beat the Reapers. But since there's so many ways to do that basing it off the leaked game script/files/war assets that it doesn't matter.

TB also said he doesn't like it when the DLC is made during game development. He has no idea this was actually made outside of the games development/budget/time. Send him this image and see what he says then. I've got a good feeling he would change his mind once he knew the workings under the company. He's far more reasonable than pretty much everyone here.

[LiquidLogic2020]

Thats all well and good, but why is it that only money grabbing EA seem to do this. Oh wait I answered my own question.

[saturos2]

People fail to reailzie that the prothean has been in development since the early stages of the game, and was cut out to be day 1 dlc.

[Xivai]

saturos2 wrote...

People fail to reailzie that the prothean has been in development since the early stages of the game, and was cut out to be day 1 dlc.

Didn't read the post or link.

[Anaraky]

Xivai wrote...

Anaraky wrote...

Xivai wrote...

Anaraky wrote...

Xivai wrote...

Option C would be a waste of everyone god damn time, and on top of that the development team who did the core game would be split up all gone. I sure as hell know I wouldn't stick around 3 months praying to god I get rehired by Bioware for DLC work. More so if they have a family to feed. Meaning the original team who does the awesome game is shattered.

It wastes consumers time who want the DLC. It wasted the developers time, the programmers time. It just wastes everyone's god damn time. That's why option C isn't an option.

Or they could make it and release it with the game as an added bonus as a nice perk for the fans. Even if we assume it is physically impossible for them to do something without it profiting them it would generate goodwill and help their reputation. Word of mouth and the like is a great asset when it comes to the gaming community. Just look at games such as League of Legends or the upcoming Guild Wars 2. Both massive at the moment largely because of word of mouth.

But no, must get the extra $10. As we all now, Bioware and EA would risk bankruptcy otherwise.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have any wants. Yuea, they could do that. All I'm saying is Bioware/EA aren't the villains this time. I never said they were "good" either. Just squarely neutral. People blew this thing way out of proportion.

Depends on your point of view I suppose. To me personally it is extremely distasteful and even if the money isn't an issue, I'm not going to support a company that does those kind of stunts. Day one DLCs feels iffy ethics-wise to start with and doubly so if it contains something with huge relevance to the lore. It actually does ****** quite a bit of people off as you might have seen. If not Totalbiscuits video regarding this is a good example, half a million views in two days and a large majority of thumbs up. That kind of bad coverage could potentially offset whatever they gain by doing the whole day one DLC thing so poorly.

This is the one time where TB didn't do the research. I've looked at the spoilers. The Prothean is a mote of dust in the large expanse of gameplay that is ME3. It isn't important. It is, but not really. THere's bigger problems and things in your war on the Reaper, and tons tons tons more of them too. He's ajust a neat little sidequest that incidentally helps you beat the Reapers. But since there's so many ways to do that basing it off the leaked game script/files/war assets that it doesn't matter.

TB also said he doesn't like it when the DLC is made during game development. He has no idea this was actually made outside of the games development/budget/time. Send him this image and see what he says then. I've got a good feeling he would change his mind once he knew the workings under the company. He's far more reasonable than pretty much everyone here.

It might not be important to the story, but it is still hugely important to the lore. Lore =/= Story.

And quite frankly, does it matter if they make the DLC in the middle or at the end of the development cycle? Not really, it is still content made before the release of the game that could have been included but didn't due to the fact that they could squeeze out more money that way. Still unethical.

[Amyntas]

It's just an overly elaborate attempt to justify unethical dlc schemes. They could create more substantial DLC for release at a later time, like e.g. Bethesda is currently doing. Also, it's true that the dlc content has simply been cut, as shown by extracted data files.

[TheStoner]

Are programmers and level creators not involved production, testing and support? And about half of what you labled as pre-production isn't even necessary with DLC.

[saturos2]

Xivai wrote...

saturos2 wrote...

People fail to reailzie that the prothean has been in development since the early stages of the game, and was cut out to be day 1 dlc.

Didn't read the post or link.

i did, but my point still stands.

[Xivai]

saturos2 wrote...

Xivai wrote...

saturos2 wrote...

People fail to reailzie that the prothean has been in development since the early stages of the game, and was cut out to be day 1 dlc.

Didn't read the post or link.

i did, but my point still stands.

He hasn't been. The bar graph even shows you he was a concept. Which means there wasn't a single line of code. Hell there wasn't a single line of code until the end of ME3 development or close to it ending. Once certification happens legally they can't add anything to the game. So yes, it was designed outside of ME3. No your point doesn't stand, good day sir.

[Xivai]

Certification means that you can't add more content to the game, go speak to the lawyers on that one. So no you can't just add content all willy nilly. They couldn't add it in as free or plan to have it added in certification either because the fact that nothing was programmed. You need it there, certification is the final word so to speak.

Bioware/EA has done nothing wrong. You people aren't entitled to a damn thing this time. Now would it be nice if they gave the DLC for free? Yeah, but it would be nice if banks gave you free 10k dollars too.

Edit
No they aren't there all separate teams doing separate things. This way you don't have to spend 20k years looking for someone who can concept, lead, write a story, legalese there way through certificaiton, program a game, and paint, and sing the forums to sleep with a lulabye all on one resume. So this way they keep their teams from disbanding, and use up otherwise blank pointless hours making more Mass Effect.

I don't see how people are mad. I'm not saying EA is good. Not evil, just thouroughly neutral.

Modifié par Xivai, 24 février 2012 - 04:26 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

This is even worse. They plan DLC before the game is even in development? Money grubbing at it's best.

[GnusmasTHX]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

This is even worse. They plan DLC before the game is even in development? Money grubbing at it's best.

It's called foresight. DLC is expected developers these days.

Believe it or not, a Prothean walking around telling you how he feels about stuff is not critical to defeating the Reapers, so he wouldn't be planned for the main game.

Then somewhere along the line, someone thought, "Hey you know what would be cool..."

And so on.

[Xivai]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

This is even worse. They plan DLC before the game is even in development? Money grubbing at it's best.

What are you an idiot? Of course they have to. That's like asking if they have to plan for cars to have modifications on them. If they don't plan for DLC from day 1 then you run into problems like ME1 where they just couldn't edit the engine fast enough to make a game.

The more you plan for DLC the smoother it will go. I remember a long time ago that these would be scraps. Little quests that got cut from a game because of whatever reason. Then when the big DLC rush occured people decided they wanted DLC. So all fo a sudden there reasons to go pick up the cut content, fix it up, and sell it.

Why do you ever have to cut content out of the game? it's a naturally occuring thing since the dawn of complex 3D games. Sometimes you just can't get everything you want in game. Even if all you had was a cool idea you didnt have time to code in, or only kind of got done before deadlines. It's like film editing where they cut scenes out and then add them back in later in extended editions. Well the good ones at least. Not the rip off ones that give you like 2.5 second sof new footage.

They have to plan for there to be DLC fomr the get go, or there wont be any at all. This is unacceptable as a corporation, and as a fan. You and I aren't the average fan, the average fan is somsone filling to fork out 10 dollars for DLC.

Modifié par Xivai, 24 février 2012 - 04:32 .

[SyyRaaaN]

People actually try to rationalize this move is amazing. Its already rational by the capitalist standards. Lets just accept the fact that Bioware and EA are trying to milk our wallets as much as its possible. This is the natural order of capitalism and as long as we consume these products, that are on the borderline of being morally accepted, they will continue producing it.

I personally predict a backlash to the excessive monetizing of the gaming industry. I for instance wont by another product from Activision or Blizzard because of their hustle with SC2. I can't be alone to come to that conclusion. However, what makes or brakes this deal is the quality of the finished product. If ME3 sucks and gets a ****storm like DA2, then Bioware should have a harder time launching titles in the future.

Also there is a another problem with the gaming industry. The production values are insane, that means that they have to market the game to a bigger crowd just to make the game a fiscal success - thus diluting and broadening the product - which results in a product trying to appeal to all potential consumers. In my opinion this ruins both movies and games now days because as a niche consumer group you aren't important enough to cater. Simply put, there is no money in developing games/movies for RPG fans, Sci-Fi fans etc. But there is loads of $$$ in developing games that appeal kids/mindless middle aged people/women and other people who are commercially stronger.

This sucks - and this is also a weakness of capitalism - accept it. And the state wont be sponsoring the gaming industry for a while. But there is a nice side to it all... THA BLACK PEARL.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Xivai wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

This is even worse. They plan DLC before the game is even in development? Money grubbing at it's best.

What are you an idiot? Of course they have to. That's like asking if they have to plan for cars to have modifications on them. If they don't plan for DLC from day 1 then you run into problems like ME1 where they just couldn't edit the engine fast enough to make a game.

The more you plan for DLC the smoother it will go. I remember a long time ago that these would be scraps. Little quests that got cut from a game because of whatever reason. Then when the big DLC rush occured people decided they wanted DLC. So all fo a sudden there reasons to go pick up the cut content, fix it up, and sell it.

Why do you ever have to cut content out of the game? it's a naturally occuring thing since the dawn of complex 3D games. Sometimes you just can't get everything you want in game. Even if all you had was a cool idea you didnt have time to code in, or only kind of got done before deadlines. It's like film editing where they cut scenes out and then add them back in later in extended editions. Well the good ones at least. Not the rip off ones that give you like 2.5 second sof new footage.

They have to plan for there to be DLC fomr the get go, or there wont be any at all. This is unacceptable as a corporation, and as a fan. You and I aren't the average fan, the average fan is somsone filling to fork out 10 dollars for DLC.

You know **** all about anything to do with DLC planning and priortizing and why it is that way. Don't pretend you do.

All time and effort should be devoted to the core game, not damn pre-conceived DLC to milk the cow. You know what BW's excuse was for not implementing controller support on the PC? Not enough time and rescources. They would rather spend it on creating DLC that isn't even part of the core game. Let me re-iterate; the core game is now in some way lesser because BW chose to work on DLC instead. The game should come first, and the milking materials second. 

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 24 février 2012 - 05:01 .

[saturos2]

Xivai wrote...

saturos2 wrote...

Xivai wrote...

saturos2 wrote...

People fail to reailzie that the prothean has been in development since the early stages of the game, and was cut out to be day 1 dlc.

Didn't read the post or link.

i did, but my point still stands.

He hasn't been. The bar graph even shows you he was a concept. Which means there wasn't a single line of code. Hell there wasn't a single line of code until the end of ME3 development or close to it ending. Once certification happens legally they can't add anything to the game. So yes, it was designed outside of ME3. No your point doesn't stand, good day sir.

right, because a concept has full dialog in both versions of a leaked script. by this logic edi was a concept though out the entire development process.

[Davidicus]

DragonRageGT wrote...

I wonder if someone would do a charter like that about CDProjekt Red which has released ALL The Witcher 2 DLC's for free, including a major 2.0 revamp difficulty patch and a coming Enhanced Edition when the X-box version is released.

Did you play The Witcher 2 at release? There's a difference between giving away free stuff because you feel it's right and giving away free stuff to make it up to your fans. Guess which one CDProjekt Red falls under?

[Davidicus]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

You know **** all about anything to do with DLC planning and priortizing and why it is that way. Don't pretend you do.

All time and effort should be devoted to the core game, not damn pre-conceived DLC to milk the cow. You know what BW's excuse was for not implementing controller support on the PC? Not enough time and rescources. They would rather spend it on creating DLC that isn't even part of the core game. Let me re-iterate; the core game is now in some way lesser because BW chose to work on DLC instead. The game should come first, and the milking materials second. 

How the **** is planning DLC contributing time and effort to developing it? What part of "BioWare developed From Ashes during the 2-3 months after the game had been certified and sent for final testing/distribution" do you not understand? THE GAME WAS DONE. They focused on the game until it was done. Nothing from the core game is missing or sold as DLC. Even if you don't believe the developers fully, if you also distrust them completely, you're nothing more than a whining child, a conspiracy theorist, or something inbetween.