307 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody211282]

Scary Shepard wrote...

Whilst I've always understood this is a sensitive issue from a moral perspective, as far as I can see video games are simply joining a long list of other consumer goods where the core product can be enhanced and upgraded (providing the consumer pays for it) if they would so desire.

I've used this metaphor previously, but damn it I'm going to do it again. If I were to go out and purchase a car, I wouldn't demand that the best sound system should be installed for free, or that I should get leather trim just because as a consumer, I'm entitled to the best version of a product regardless of what I pay for it. The car is still functional in its intended role regardless of how many additional mod-cons I buy.

There's no end of goods this applies to: computers, kitchen appliances, TVs, garden equipment, even children's toys. All can have attachments/modifications/accessories bought for them from the manufacturer, if the consumer so wishes.

Why should a game be treated differently, simply because it's digital media?

I'm fine with things being added on, what I'm not ok with is stuff being taken out of the game so they can charge me for it later.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Multiplayer is no incentive to buy the game new... at all... for 360 gamers that don't have a Gold subscription.

I beleive the technical term for silver is "Second-class citizen"


My gold runs out on the 1st 

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 février 2012 - 08:57 .

[byzantine horse]

I am well aware how DLC works and why there is day1 DLC - artists and writers don't have much to do in the last months of development when programmers do most of the work, so artists tend to do things that won't require much testing or programming.

However, what I don't agree with is that this is a Prothean character as day1 DLC. Having a Prothean in your party is like having a dinosaur next door whom you could talk to if you were an archeologist. That is what I am against, Bioware creating something that seemingly is so pivotal to the Mass Effect universe and the game as DLC. I can't know how important the Prothean will be in the story or exactly what we will learn from the Prothean. But I wager that whatever the Prothean has to say it will be very interesting and integral to the main arc of the story.

Had it been a Zaeed or the prince dude from DA2, characters who are cool and all but not exactly special compared to the rest of your team. The Prothean on the other hand... it's a Prothean, need I say more?

[Some Dude]

Cody211282 wrote...

Some Dude wrote...

Watching my fellow gamers tear each other apart over $10 makes me a sad panda

Just because someone has the same hobby as me doesn't mean we are on the same side, especially when their mentality of "buy anything that X puts out" leads to me having to buy the game peice by peice.

Yeah sure disagreeing is fine and having different opinions about this issue is fine and all, but it could do without the personal attacks and the vitriol.

[Dragoonlordz]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Multiplayer is no incentive to buy the game new... at all... for 360 gamers that don't have a Gold subscription.

I beleive the technical term for silver is "Second-class citizen"


My gold runs out on the 1st 

I've been second class for a long time, greatly benefitted from it as has freed up what money would of spend on feature I never use for purpose of buying few more games each year. 

Well with exception these days I only use my PC for gaming but that little Microsoft xbox360 is gathering dust quite nicely. Hoping to build a house form amount of dust someday that it is collecting.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 09:00 .

[nitefyre410]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Well unfortunately for  some of the good folks are Bioware...I have to draw my line at  this point.  I understand why  Prothy may not have made it in the game and why he was DLC . They could just cut him out completely  or  Released like a month later given the Collectors Editions buyers the code in the box while charging everyone else the  $10... that would have been accpetable... this...  Day 1....   Can't do it.  

Sucks for the hardworkers a Bioware  - so I going to buy the new game... might even drop the 10 bucks  for Prothy or I might get a Chipotle Burritto  have not made my mind up yet..  either way after March 6th... all my future Bioware purchase will be used.

Would of been far more moaning on this issue if the SE players had to wait a month while others played it using CE.

Patience is a virtue many lack on here.

 

Yeah but it would have been just  on here and  in small pockets that would have died out over time...

This.. well you got PC gamer, Gamer Informer,  Kotaku,  etc,etc talking about it..  Collector Edition and Standard Edtion folks up in arms...

Lesser of the two evils...

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Multiplayer is no incentive to buy the game new... at all... for 360 gamers that don't have a Gold subscription.

I beleive the technical term for silver is "Second-class citizen"


My gold runs out on the 1st 

I've been second class for a long time, greatly benefitted from it as has freed up what money would of spend on feature I never use for purpose of buying few more games each year. 

Well with exception these days I only use my PC for gaming but that little Microsoft xbox360 is gathering dust quite nicely. Hoping to build a house form amount of dust someday that it is collecting.

Im in the works of building a [expensive] gaming rig, but i can't get over the ease of use and convienience of console gaming.

That said... paying for XBL is highway robbery, you might even get away with calling it extortion.

[Scary Shepard]

Cody211282 wrote...

I'm fine with things being added on, what I'm not ok with is stuff being taken out of the game so they can charge me for it later.

Hypothetical scenario: From Ashes DLC was not released at launch, not on CE, not on SE. CE copies are sold cheaper to compensate.

From Ashes DLC is subsequently released several months after game launch, like Kasumi. I'd bet a lot of money that fewer people would have cried foul, despite the fact the only thing differentiating this from the reality is timing.

[Cody211282]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

oh i get it people are mad that they are not getting content for free? -____-That is silly in my opinion bioware can sell THEIR intellectual property how they like. It is up to the fans to decide whether they want to get it or not bioware are not forcing anyone. It's like ordering ponchos and the server tells you if you can get a bigger plate if you pay $2 more and you go on a rampage but you are clearly not forced to pay $2 more.

No people are pissed because this stuff is normaly free if you buy the game new. Plus it smalls of "Wardens Keep" all over again.

but it isn't this time. We should be be grateful that we are even given free content. The bottom line is that content costs money. I have no problem paying for this.

Ya and I already shelled out $60 for it, why should I have to give them another 10? The publishers asking for more money for something that should have been in the game in the first place a bit more then im willing to put up with.

Youdon't have to if you do not want. That is what DLC is about additional content right? You can even get the DLC after a month and treat this like a post DLC. Problem solved

The point is they took this out of the dev of the main game to make it DLC, as far as I'm concered that capcom levels of screwing the customer.

[TheStoner]

Scary Shepard wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

I'm fine with things being added on, what I'm not ok with is stuff being taken out of the game so they can charge me for it later.

Hypothetical scenario: From Ashes DLC was not released at launch, not on CE, not on SE. CE copies are sold cheaper to compensate.

From Ashes DLC is subsequently released several months after game launch, like Kasumi. I'd bet a lot of money that fewer people would have cried foul, despite the fact the only thing differentiating this from the reality is timing.

Of course. In that scenario it would be impossible to tell that the game was made pre-launch.

[Dragoonlordz]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Well unfortunately for  some of the good folks are Bioware...I have to draw my line at  this point.  I understand why  Prothy may not have made it in the game and why he was DLC . They could just cut him out completely  or  Released like a month later given the Collectors Editions buyers the code in the box while charging everyone else the  $10... that would have been accpetable... this...  Day 1....   Can't do it.  

Sucks for the hardworkers a Bioware  - so I going to buy the new game... might even drop the 10 bucks  for Prothy or I might get a Chipotle Burritto  have not made my mind up yet..  either way after March 6th... all my future Bioware purchase will be used.

Would of been far more moaning on this issue if the SE players had to wait a month while others played it using CE.

Patience is a virtue many lack on here.

 

Yeah but it would have been just  on here and  in small pockets that would have died out over time...

This.. well you got PC gamer, Gamer Informer,  Kotaku,  etc,etc talking about it..  Collector Edition and Standard Edtion folks up in arms...

Lesser of the two evils...

It will still die out over time, Kotaku and other sites generally are only interested in your clicks. Human ability to retain a vendetta 'verbally seen' on a large scale with regard to games tends to fade into the back alleys of the internet quite quickly. I did however notice while reading the article on Kotaku that most of the comments at time were not pro-anger but more pro-get over it. Exceptions of course shown now and again as always. Whether consider that positive for Bioware or negative that seem to get support more so on those sites (I only checked Kotaku one) than against, I will not judge.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 09:07 .

[Cody211282]

Scary Shepard wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

I'm fine with things being added on, what I'm not ok with is stuff being taken out of the game so they can charge me for it later.

Hypothetical scenario: From Ashes DLC was not released at launch, not on CE, not on SE. CE copies are sold cheaper to compensate.

From Ashes DLC is subsequently released several months after game launch, like Kasumi. I'd bet a lot of money that fewer people would have cried foul, despite the fact the only thing differentiating this from the reality is timing.

K but did they leave it out of the main game just so they could come back to it later and sell as DLC, or was it something that they came up with after? My biggest problem isn't timing so much as it being taken from the game I have already paid for and sold to me again, the timing is just an extra slap to the face of not trying to even hide it.

[Red Son Rising]

BW can release content for their games any way they see fit, if consumers respond positively [re: $] they will probably do it again. i buy new games [and preorder as needed to get bonuses]

BW isnt being unreasonable because Mass Effect their idea and their property. BW can part out the game any way they want to: if you dont like it dont buy it [just stop b****ing while yer at it]

crying at the feet of a god does not make you a pious man and only a fool laments the loss of something he never had. [so get off that high horse if yer not gonna pay for the ride]

Modifié par Red Son Rising, 24 février 2012 - 09:09 .

[robmokron]

..... to all the complainers, and the people among these people who are considered hardcore fans, you dun goofed for not pre ordering the CE in time. instead of going tomorrow to pre order your game for 5 bucks at a store, you should have went months ago. Its been said before, this was created while the final game was bug fixing, and ti was "intergrated" to feel like it part of the final game, however, it is not.

[Scary Shepard]

Cody211282 wrote...

Scary Shepard wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

I'm fine with things being added on, what I'm not ok with is stuff being taken out of the game so they can charge me for it later.

Hypothetical scenario: From Ashes DLC was not released at launch, not on CE, not on SE. CE copies are sold cheaper to compensate.

From Ashes DLC is subsequently released several months after game launch, like Kasumi. I'd bet a lot of money that fewer people would have cried foul, despite the fact the only thing differentiating this from the reality is timing.

K but did they leave it out of the main game just so they could come back to it later and sell as DLC, or was it something that they came up with after? My biggest problem isn't timing so much as it being taken from the game I have already paid for and sold to me again, the timing is just an extra slap to the face of not trying to even hide it.

My point is that the DLC was never "removed" in the first place. The questionable timing is what is causing people to jump to conclusions.

[Cody211282]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

oh i get it people are mad that they are not getting content for free? -____-That is silly in my opinion bioware can sell THEIR intellectual property how they like. It is up to the fans to decide whether they want to get it or not bioware are not forcing anyone. It's like ordering ponchos and the server tells you if you can get a bigger plate if you pay $2 more and you go on a rampage but you are clearly not forced to pay $2 more.

No people are pissed because this stuff is normaly free if you buy the game new. Plus it smalls of "Wardens Keep" all over again.

but it isn't this time. We should be be grateful that we are even given free content. The bottom line is that content costs money. I have no problem paying for this.

Ya and I already shelled out $60 for it, why should I have to give them another 10? The publishers asking for more money for something that should have been in the game in the first place a bit more then im willing to put up with.

Youdon't have to if you do not want. That is what DLC is about additional content right? You can even get the DLC after a month and treat this like a post DLC. Problem solved

The point is they took this out of the dev of the main game to make it DLC, as far as I'm concered that capcom levels of screwing the customer.

The core team is not working onthe DLC. A different team is and i suggest in most game development companies different people are in charge of DLC. Just like  how fernando Melo is in charge of dragon age 2 DLC. If the DLC team is able to work on content the same time as the core team is able to work on its content i say why not? I bet people would not react the same if this DLC was finished and bioware waited a whole month to publish it. That chart posted explains how the development cycle works(in a general sense though cause i doubt if the bioware development cycle is as basic as that)

Your still missing my point, I am paying for a product twice with this model, if they are working on it and its good to go at day one it should be included in the game because that's what your paying for, your paying for the work they have put into it up to that point(your also paying for what should be a complete game without to many bugs but thats diffrent topic).

Hell thats like saying the people in charge of side missions were working on a diffrent team then the people in charge of the main plot, so now you get to pay for each one of them.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I would've gotten the CE if it had a full documentary/interview with all the Voice Actors/behind the scenes look at development/etc.

I'm that kind of Collector's Edition person... Pictures and in-game hoodies are nice... but wouldn't fit my Shepard or do me any good.

All I wanted from the CE was the bonus Char/Mission... and now it's available.^^ Everyone's happy.

[Cody211282]

Scary Shepard wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Scary Shepard wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

I'm fine with things being added on, what I'm not ok with is stuff being taken out of the game so they can charge me for it later.

Hypothetical scenario: From Ashes DLC was not released at launch, not on CE, not on SE. CE copies are sold cheaper to compensate.

From Ashes DLC is subsequently released several months after game launch, like Kasumi. I'd bet a lot of money that fewer people would have cried foul, despite the fact the only thing differentiating this from the reality is timing.

K but did they leave it out of the main game just so they could come back to it later and sell as DLC, or was it something that they came up with after? My biggest problem isn't timing so much as it being taken from the game I have already paid for and sold to me again, the timing is just an extra slap to the face of not trying to even hide it.

My point is that the DLC was never "removed" in the first place. The questionable timing is what is causing people to jump to conclusions.

Considering it was being made at the same time the game was being worked on I would say someone decided to take it out, move it to a DLC team to take care of and then not even bother to try to hide it.


I honestly think most people are missing what I'm upset about.

[nitefyre410]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Well unfortunately for  some of the good folks are Bioware...I have to draw my line at  this point.  I understand why  Prothy may not have made it in the game and why he was DLC . They could just cut him out completely  or  Released like a month later given the Collectors Editions buyers the code in the box while charging everyone else the  $10... that would have been accpetable... this...  Day 1....   Can't do it.  

Sucks for the hardworkers a Bioware  - so I going to buy the new game... might even drop the 10 bucks  for Prothy or I might get a Chipotle Burritto  have not made my mind up yet..  either way after March 6th... all my future Bioware purchase will be used.

Would of been far more moaning on this issue if the SE players had to wait a month while others played it using CE.

Patience is a virtue many lack on here.

 

Yeah but it would have been just  on here and  in small pockets that would have died out over time...

This.. well you got PC gamer, Gamer Informer,  Kotaku,  etc,etc talking about it..  Collector Edition and Standard Edtion folks up in arms...

Lesser of the two evils...

It will still die out over time, Kotaku and other sites generally are only interested in your clicks. Human ability to retain a vendetta 'verbally seen' on a large scale with regard to games tends to fade into the back alleys of the internet quite quickly. I did however notice while reading the article on Kotaku that most of the comments at time were not pro-anger but more pro-get over it. Exceptions of course shown now and again as always. Whether consider that positive for Bioware or negative that seem to get support more so on those sites (I only checked Kotaku one) than against, I will not judge.

 

Absolutely all things  will die over time.. Yeah I  notice that but to honest I kinda laugh considering I  visit Kotaku frequently.

Really it comes down the saying tha one bad customer experience can lose you 5 customers just off word of mouth.  Well  - people were pissed with  DA 2( I.. I did not hate the game.. did not love it.),  The  Patch with SWTOR  and now this... while all seperate  issues..it can a have cumlative affect... especailly on top the Negative presception that EA  already has... Time will only tell.

[robmokron]

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

oh i get it people are mad that they are not getting content for free? -____-That is silly in my opinion bioware can sell THEIR intellectual property how they like. It is up to the fans to decide whether they want to get it or not bioware are not forcing anyone. It's like ordering ponchos and the server tells you if you can get a bigger plate if you pay $2 more and you go on a rampage but you are clearly not forced to pay $2 more.

No people are pissed because this stuff is normaly free if you buy the game new. Plus it smalls of "Wardens Keep" all over again.

but it isn't this time. We should be be grateful that we are even given free content. The bottom line is that content costs money. I have no problem paying for this.

Ya and I already shelled out $60 for it, why should I have to give them another 10? The publishers asking for more money for something that should have been in the game in the first place a bit more then im willing to put up with.

Youdon't have to if you do not want. That is what DLC is about additional content right? You can even get the DLC after a month and treat this like a post DLC. Problem solved

The point is they took this out of the dev of the main game to make it DLC, as far as I'm concered that capcom levels of screwing the customer.

The core team is not working onthe DLC. A different team is and i suggest in most game development companies different people are in charge of DLC. Just like  how fernando Melo is in charge of dragon age 2 DLC. If the DLC team is able to work on content the same time as the core team is able to work on its content i say why not? I bet people would not react the same if this DLC was finished and bioware waited a whole month to publish it. That chart posted explains how the development cycle works(in a general sense though cause i doubt if the bioware development cycle is as basic as that)

Your still missing my point, I am paying for a product twice with this model, if they are working on it and its good to go at day one it should be included in the game because that's what your paying for, your paying for the work they have put into it up to that point(your also paying for what should be a complete game without to many bugs but thats diffrent topic).

Hell thats like saying the people in charge of side missions were working on a diffrent team then the people in charge of the main plot, so now you get to pay for each one of them.

No you paying for whats on the disk, NOT what they were working on during the development. by that logic. With Star wars old republic, i should have gotten, mass effect 2, mass effect 3, Dragon age 2 and maybe eevn origins...

I WAMNT MY FREE GAMES!! RAGE!!!!!!!

[Cody211282]

robmokron wrote...

..... to all the complainers, and the people among these people who are considered hardcore fans, you dun goofed for not pre ordering the CE in time. instead of going tomorrow to pre order your game for 5 bucks at a store, you should have went months ago. Its been said before, this was created while the final game was bug fixing, and ti was "intergrated" to feel like it part of the final game, however, it is not.

Paying money for something you dont know is going to be worth it is friken insane, it's a sad thing that basicly to get a game anytime near launch you have to shell out money blindly.

[robmokron]

Cody211282 wrote...

robmokron wrote...

..... to all the complainers, and the people among these people who are considered hardcore fans, you dun goofed for not pre ordering the CE in time. instead of going tomorrow to pre order your game for 5 bucks at a store, you should have went months ago. Its been said before, this was created while the final game was bug fixing, and ti was "intergrated" to feel like it part of the final game, however, it is not.

Paying money for something you dont know is going to be worth it is friken insane, it's a sad thing that basicly to get a game anytime near launch you have to shell out money blindly.

wrong, they annouced what the CE had in it. Secondly, most HARDCORE fans wouldnt really care, just want the collectors.

[Ashator]

MrJoshua wrote...

People saying insinuating Bioware/EA is being selfish for charging for Day 1 DLC is funny to me.
Isn't it more of that the fanbase is being selfish wanting it for free?

I have no problem with what has happened with the DLC thing, except for the fact they leaked everything way to early with the CE description a while back. Also, if Prothy isn't an important part of the game that will be disappointing.

But the money thing doesn't bother me at all.
You don't have to buy it.
If you cant afford to buy the DLC, you probably shouldn't be spending your limited funds on a video game in the first place.

+100 !!