227 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Which is why I think it's better to focus on the packaging legislation. Lets see how far they get when they have to decalre every piece of DLC on release on the game packaging.

No effect.

Package only has to declare what is in it. This will never change and no, a product package will not ever tell you what they may have developed but not included in the package or what another package contains.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 06:40 .

[AkiKishi]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Which is why I think it's better to focus on the packaging legislation. Lets see how far they get when they have to decalre every piece of DLC on release on the game packaging.

No effect.

Package only has to declare what is in it. This will never change and no, a product package will not ever tell you what they may have developed but not included in the package or what another package contains.

That used to be the case with food too. Only they never wanted to tell you what was in it..

Now we have a situation where you can no longer expect the packaging to contain a complete game. If TB can get 500.000 hits in 2 days and you only need 100,000 sigs to get a review in the UK praliment I'd say it's quite possible.

Laws are not fixed and this would cut the nuts off EA and other publishers.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 février 2012 - 06:43 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Which is why I think it's better to focus on the packaging legislation. Lets see how far they get when they have to decalre every piece of DLC on release on the game packaging.

No effect.

Package only has to declare what is in it. This will never change and no, a product package will not ever tell you what they may have developed but not included in the package or what another package contains.

That used to be the case with food too.

Now we have a situation where you can no longer expect the packaging to contain a complete game. If TB can get 500.000 hits in 2 days and you only need 100,000 sigs to get a review in the UK praliment I'd say it's quite possible.

The game is complete.

Unless it is physically impossible to reach then end without it then the game is complete. Enjoyment is subjective and does not mean the game should come with extras or such DLC unless causes what happens mentioned in first sentence. I disliked a lot of games last year and did not enjoy them but they were still complete games.

Factually unless you cannot reach the end of the game without it physically then the game is complete.

You may not like the game, you may feel it is not a good game without it, but the game IS complete.

I live in the UK too and seen how those petitions can play out. All it ensures is that the topic is mentioned and talked about, time frame is irrelevant and topic could just last 3.14 seconds before moving on with no results coming from it.

The Prothean is not on the disc, the mission is also not on the disc, therefore they will never be forced to declare on the package which is not contained, it's existence in another product or place.

Unlike the Sebastion DLC for DA2 which was on the disc but unlocked through download and patch of 50MB the Prothean is not on the disc and is 800+MB download for those without the CE.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 24 février 2012 - 06:49 .

[madclaw]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Isn't this the BSN? Where's the vitriol, the anger, the outrage? The innane and intelligence showing insults?

Then again, this particular post hasn't reached a full 2 pages yet. I'm sure it'll happen.

On a related note I fully agree with the guy. It's well thought out and presents the information in a balanced and informed tone.

Bravo.

Modifié par madclaw, 24 février 2012 - 06:48 .

[Nodnol88]

Great article, and echoes what I've been saying for years.

[AkiKishi]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Which is why I think it's better to focus on the packaging legislation. Lets see how far they get when they have to decalre every piece of DLC on release on the game packaging.

No effect.

Package only has to declare what is in it. This will never change and no, a product package will not ever tell you what they may have developed but not included in the package or what another package contains.

That used to be the case with food too.

Now we have a situation where you can no longer expect the packaging to contain a complete game. If TB can get 500.000 hits in 2 days and you only need 100,000 sigs to get a review in the UK praliment I'd say it's quite possible.

The game is complete.

Unless it is physically impossible to reach then end without it then the game is complete. Enjoyment is subjective and does not mean the game should come with extras or such DLC unless causes what happens mentioned in first sentence. I disliked a lot of games last year and did not enjoy them but they were still complete games.

Factually unless you cannot reach the end of the game without it physically then the game is complete.

You may not like the game, you may feel it is not a good game without it, but the game IS complete.

I live in the UK too and seen how those petitions can play out. All it ensures is that the topic is mentioned and talked about, time frame is irrelevant and topic could just last 3.14 seconds before moving on with no results coming from it.

Not according to the defintion of the word.

Well if you live in the UK you will be aware of what happened with the food labeling movement. I for one want to know what is missing from the games I'm thinking of buying and what is "hidden cost".

[Dragoonlordz]

BobSmith101 wrote...

-snip-

I will allow you to believe what you wish to believe. But I believe you are in for one massive shock and disappointment if you continue to believe what you currently do.

[Eain]

Wow, I've been spending my last few days on this forum saying EXACTLY WHAT THIS GUY IS SAYING.

Except here Biodrones flame me, and this guy gets considered a reputable source because he posts it on Forbes.

I'm just gonna quote the following bit from his article and credit it to myself because I've literally argued the exact same thing yesterday evening:

What EA, and many of the other companies are doing, is a simple economic experiment. They know gamers are a loyal group, and they want to see just how far they can push you to shell out money for the “complete” experience of a game you love.

You might say that you wish the extra mission was in the game, thus saving you $10. But hell, I wish the game was $30, but that doesn’t meant I won’t buy it for $60. The question at hand is…how much do you love Mass Effect? You’ve shown you love it $60 worth for years, and now, they’re seeing if you love it $70 worth.

Modifié par Eain, 24 février 2012 - 06:55 .

[slimgrin]

A naive article. Bottom line is certain companies are simply way more professional and dignified in their treatment to customers. EA isn't one of those companies.

[AkiKishi]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

-snip-

I will allow you to believe what you wish to believe. But I believe you are in for one massive shock and disappointment if you continue to believe what you currently do.

No worries it will make a fun side project.

[DeeRetha]

This is a well-written and insightful article.
It doesn't change how I feel because I was thinking the same thing. Of course it's a money grab. So are HD re-releases (I personally don't even see a difference except that pixels are more noticeable).

When I first began buying my own products (That is, when I stopped relying on my parents) I used to complain that it was unfair film companies would release a DVD only to release the "Special/Limited/Collectors Edition" a few months later after I had already bought the regular edition.
Video game companies seem to be on top of this in allowing consumers to choose which type to pre-order - Then you can't complain later that you didn't receive the artbook or soundtrack. They made it available.
But, DLC is still to games what additional scenes are to films. Releasing DLC is really no different than releasing a Director's Cut or Extended Addition DVD
It's all to earn the company more money.

[Navasha]

Its called the free market.
Everything is worth what someone will pay for it. If it gets more expensive than people are willing to pay than its found its actual worth.
I honestly don't think many games are worth $20 dollars and others are easily worth $100 bucks.

I have stopped buying many games that I don't know much about until I have seen or played a demo. There are way too many games being released on hype that are really pathetic games with almost no content.

[Soundsystem]

Insane 1 wrote...

Sad but true, this will continue to happen. When do I see it stopping for many of us current gamers? When we get jobs that will be very important to our lives as a whole, as taking care of our own families, paying off mortgages, necessity bills (water, gas), car bills. There will still people who can manage all of the above and still play, but less and less likely will many be able to.

Oh, and school.

I don't plan on becoming less likely to love gaming, but more likely I won't be able to play as much as I currently do while going to school, and later, getting a full-time life.

Except that a lot of us on this forum, myself included, are going to school and still play a ton of games. And a lot of people here have full time jobs and families.

So don'expect those things will magically make you stop gaming.

[Fishy]

I don't agree. Video game before were not exploited like today for more reason than just ' They did not know how much gamer loved their game  and patati patata' . Take a moment to look at how many copies  Super Mario bros Sold .. Done it? Great , we can continue.


It's because of the internet and the industry changed a lot with it. When he compare video game vs going to cinema per hours .. I am sorry Bob . But  I don't  only go  to the cinema for the movies but for the social aspect of it and watching it on a big ass screen. if they charged me 10 bucks to watch it on a  30 inch screen I would stay at home and rent it. Entertainement value ain't  always measurable per $$/hours in most case.

I can make my own spaghetti for 1/5 the prices you get it at the restaurant. I go there for other reason than just eating.


Mass Effect price tag was 40.00$ . Now I pay 70.00$ (PC) . But it's the same THING. Are you starting to figure thing out by now? Where I am going? WHich become  higher with every other DLC..
Some gamer are just addicted or want to keep/stay a 'gamer' .. Know what I mean? They know , we know  that we're [vulgarity] but we keep buying them. I have seen this before..

OR

They want to finish the story because their friend Bob(bob can be anyone) will finish it. Just watch the reaction of the PC communities when their version is released later.  If they say 'This version will be improve' . We will be happy. But if they told us ' Wait for 3 month and we wil lgive you the same crap'.. What the F...K?

People want their stuff when it's 'FLASHY' and 'NEW'. Some will wait for the ultimate super collection in 1 years for 39.99$..But they're rare.

If you had some backbone you could say no. If you really wanted to make a difference you would take those 70 dollars and send it to a charity organization.

My rant is over. I disagree. If we talk about it it's because our subconcious tell us that something is fishy and there's something fishy. So we have the right and we should complain.

[Cobra5]

This is basically what I was saying the other day.

WHen CoD made the switch to $70 (MW2 if I recall correctly) I don't buy it, but I kept buying blizzard games when they bumped up to $70 (Warcraft 3).

I'll gladly buy ME3 for $70 because its worth it. But I wouldn't buy a new Dragon Age for $70.

Moral fortitude, ethics, etc... it has nothing to do with it. Make a good enough game, movie, whatever... I'll pay you for it. If it isn't worth the price your asking, to me, then I'll skip it or buy it when it drops in price.

[Xerxes52]

Pretty good article.

On a related note, I wonder how long it will be until the gaming industry gets a good consumer watchdog group. It's getting to the point where we need one.

[kongenial]

I agree with his analysis of consumer behavior. But he makes too emphasis on a rational choice act.

Sure he has a degree in economics, but I, and I think many if not most as well, don't calculate how much money I spent on each hour of fun. That's plain rational choice, but as you can see with this topic an emotional component is as important for gamers who love their games.

And that's IMO the whole point. Companies (not just EA) want to sell something through emotion as most people don't just calculate the cost/utility of their acts. As you know, sex sells. Why do we got romance options in ME? Take a guess.

And of course those companies just care about money. It is maybe an immoral thing for some of us, but not for every one. And certainly not liberal capitalists (no pun intended, so no commi response please), they want a revenue for their investments and every possibility to increase this revenue is welcomed. They are not "evil", but IMO this behavior is problematic indeed.

But what could the consumer do? He can spend his money or not. You can't discuss about morals, EA does not care. But if the sell drops, of ME3 or the DLC they will have to react. But still only to increase future revenues. It's capitalism, stupid  

Modifié par kongenial, 24 février 2012 - 07:17 .

[slimgrin]

Xerxes52 wrote...

Pretty good article.

On a related note, I wonder how long it will be until the gaming industry gets a good consumer watchdog group. It's getting to the point where we need one.

I think the gaming industry distinguishes itself from others, like movies and music, and not in a good way. 

[Cody211282]

slimgrin wrote...

Xerxes52 wrote...

Pretty good article.

On a related note, I wonder how long it will be until the gaming industry gets a good consumer watchdog group. It's getting to the point where we need one.

I think the gaming industry distinguishes itself from others, like movies and music, and not in a good way. 

Thats because "gameing is for kids" and the way we act sorta supports that.

[Tezlaa]

The price for a game itself in the UK has been stuck at £40 for a long long time. I remember they tried upping the price to £50 when the xbox360 first came out along with other new gen games, and I just stuck with my PS2. I mustn't have been the only one as sure enough, they came down back to £40.

I think we are seeing the same thing here with DLC, there will be a price limit for DLC, like there is for our games, but god knows what that is. I think the max price I would pay for a map pack/ level pack (like from ashes) would probably be 10-15 pounds. Expensive it may sound, and I agree, it is! I would still pay it though.

[Dean_the_Young]

I always laugh when consumers with the time and money to sink into a $60, 50+ hour luxury item complain of 'exploitation' when asked to pay another $10 on an extension product.

It's about as believable as people who complain of oppression when they're booted from a forum.

[AkiKishi]

Tezlaa wrote...

The price for a game itself in the UK has been stuck at £40 for a long long time. I remember they tried upping the price to £50 when the xbox360 first came out along with other new gen games, and I just stuck with my PS2. I mustn't have been the only one as sure enough, they came down back to £40.

This is why we get day 1 DLC because the market says a big FU to price increases especially the casual market. To make up for it they milk the gamer market with day1 DLC which raises the price to £50 anyway.

[Eain]

kongenial wrote...

I agree with his analysis of consumer behavior. But he makes too emphasis on a rational choice act.

Sure he has a degree in economics, but I, and I think many if not most as well, don't calculate how much money I spent on each hour of fun. That's plain rational choice, but as you can see with this topic an emotional component is as important for gamers who love their games.

Actually that's a good point, because I do. Most of my purchases I justify by how many hours of fun I estimate they are going to give me, and then divide the cost by the hours. If it doesn't balance out, I don't buy it.

[TheOptimist]

Ugh. He still misses the point that this content would never have been in the original game. If DLC didn't exist, we'd never have gotten the Prothean at all, he'd be one more item to have hit the cutting room floor. But atleast he's not yelling about 'deserving' to get DLC for free.

[AJRimmsey]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I always laugh when consumers with the time and money to sink into a $60, 50+ hour luxury item complain of 'exploitation' when asked to pay another $10 on an extension product.

It's about as believable as people who complain of oppression when they're booted from a forum.

you didnt watch the vid did you.

but felt the right to comment anyway



back to the topic though....
the guys spot on,but maybe a little too much confidence in the gaming "community" to think enough will not buy it.

My own reasons for not buying it are different,but still he has a huge point,who likes being milked ?

TheOptimist wrote...

Ugh. He still misses the point that
this content would never have been in the original game. If DLC didn't
exist, we'd never have gotten the Prothean at all, he'd be one more item
to have hit the cutting room floor. But atleast he's not yelling about
'deserving' to get DLC for free.

err you are the one missing the point,its a PROTHEAN

unless you havent played 1 and 2,in which case its excusable

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 24 février 2012 - 07:34 .