227 réponses à ce sujet

[vonSlash]

Sadly, profit is the single biggest motivator in human history, so any time artistic quality or human decency get in the way of the bottom line, the bottom line always wins.

Although, I wouldn't mind so much if 100% of the spare profits a company made were re-invested into improving their next product, instead of funding more invasive advertising or paying for the new executive yacht.

[TwistedComplex]

Guns_of_Freedom wrote...

To everyone still complaining that you have to pay to get exclusive CE DLC how about you tell Bioware thank you for even giving you a chance to play the DLC

Hnnggg... Blhnnn...

Sorry, you're comment made me puke in my mouth a little

[TwistedComplex]

People don't realize but ME3 is driving A LOT of PC gamers away...

They only have 80k PC pre-orders (Spoiler, it isn't because of piracy)

Of course, we'll have to work on getting the console players to stop supporting them, but still, we're making progress

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 26 février 2012 - 04:26 .

[Gabey5]

Origin is what is driving pc gamers away.

The fact that i can't just put in my disc and play without dealing with 3rd parties. All this drm and dlc will not affect pirates in the least, it will however affect people who buy the game

[AlanC9]

TwistedComplex wrote...

People don't realize but ME3 is driving A LOT of PC gamers away...

They only have 80k PC pre-orders (Spoiler, it isn't because of piracy)

How many pre-orders should they have had?

[Gabey5]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Guns_of_Freedom wrote...

To everyone still complaining that you have to pay to get exclusive CE DLC how about you tell Bioware thank you for even giving you a chance to play the DLC

Hnnggg... Blhnnn...

Sorry, you're comment made me puke in my mouth a little

Yeah same.

[Raxxman]

I always found the MW2 Piracy thing quite interesting.

People always say the MW2 PC Boycott acomplished nothing because people caved and bought it anyway. However MW2 sold terribly on the PC, yet was the most pirated game of the year.

Modifié par Raxxman, 26 février 2012 - 04:31 .

[AlanC9]

Jake71887 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Karimloo wrote...
Whatever BioWare, keep eating from EA's hands.

Bio is EA. There's no difference. Hasn't been for years.

Influence is not the same as total control.

EA's had total control for over four years. Didn't mean to imply anything else.

[TwistedComplex]

AlanC9 wrote...

How many pre-orders should they have had?

Considering Dragon Age: Origins had 80k PC pre-orders when it wasn't even a recognized IP i think should give you some perspective 

[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
If everyone doesn't buy games like this, games like this won't be made.

Because, you know, people showed they weren't going to pay for a block-buster game with block-buster pricing. Which the companies kind of need to stay afloat, because they don't stand to last long selling at a loss or just breaking even.

That's what you show when you don't buy a game: that you aren't a reliable customer, and that the game of this scale isn't a reliable investment. What you'll actually get afterwards is cheaper, less expensive, and far less developed games because they're going to have to cut a lot of that development cost in order to get to the range you'll pay for.

Would it necessarily be bad if games cost less to make?

This is one of those counterfactuals that I find hard to evaluate. Depends on how far back we go, I guess. NWN2? KotOR? NWN1? BG2? Fallout?

Or does it just fail anyway because gamers don't actually want to go back, so you just lose tons of sales if you walk back from current AAA standards?

You bring up an interesting sub-topic!

I think before we can fully discusss this topic we first have to deal with a bigger problem with game development.

One of the biggest problems in game development is the parasitic loss due to publishers.  Publishers are a *massive* problem for the industry.  EA for instance,  it produces no products,  it adds no value to products,  but it adds significantly expense of a project.  Each game has to cover the expenses of the buisness people at EA,  the CEO at EA,  the CTO at EA,  the CFO at EA,  etc.  None of these people actually contribute any value to the game,  but they all have enourmous salaries that the game must pay.

First,  I would suggest that one of the things that needs to happen is the publishers need to fail so the budgets drop significantly.

Further,  publishers no longer serve their original purpose,  which was to market a product and get it on store shelves.  In today's world,  any developer could easily buy the same banner ads and get Gamestop to add a SKU.  Now publishers are banks,  controlling the money that allows games to be developed.

This relationship exists only because of underhanded tactics.  When the 3D revolution occurred,  and budgets skyrocketed,  developers were unprepared.  Publishers funded them,  but gave them a pittance of the revenues,  keeping them dependent,  until we get to today,  when development houses are so starved of the revenues of their work they can't self fund.

Which leads to the final problem with publishers.  They inhibit good design.  Their purpose is contrary.  A publisher isn't interested in making a good game,  they're interested in revenues.  But they are the ones who dictate what can and can't get made.  As Chris Avelone recently said,  Publishers won't listen to many pitches,  because it isn't the most likely game to sell 10 million units.  They dictate what will get made,  and how it will be made,  much like what is obviously happened to ME2 and ME3.

The next two years will be great.  We will see the death of most of the publishers as their failure to innovate leads to a stagnant market and steadily decreasing revenues.  We will see game development return to game developers.  That's why Double Fine's kickstarter was so very important. 

[Abirn]

Gatt9 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
If everyone doesn't buy games like this, games like this won't be made.

Because, you know, people showed they weren't going to pay for a block-buster game with block-buster pricing. Which the companies kind of need to stay afloat, because they don't stand to last long selling at a loss or just breaking even.

That's what you show when you don't buy a game: that you aren't a reliable customer, and that the game of this scale isn't a reliable investment. What you'll actually get afterwards is cheaper, less expensive, and far less developed games because they're going to have to cut a lot of that development cost in order to get to the range you'll pay for.

Would it necessarily be bad if games cost less to make?

This is one of those counterfactuals that I find hard to evaluate. Depends on how far back we go, I guess. NWN2? KotOR? NWN1? BG2? Fallout?

Or does it just fail anyway because gamers don't actually want to go back, so you just lose tons of sales if you walk back from current AAA standards?

You bring up an interesting sub-topic!

I think before we can fully discusss this topic we first have to deal with a bigger problem with game development.

One of the biggest problems in game development is the parasitic loss due to publishers.  Publishers are a *massive* problem for the industry.  EA for instance,  it produces no products,  it adds no value to products,  but it adds significantly expense of a project.  Each game has to cover the expenses of the buisness people at EA,  the CEO at EA,  the CTO at EA,  the CFO at EA,  etc.  None of these people actually contribute any value to the game,  but they all have enourmous salaries that the game must pay.

First,  I would suggest that one of the things that needs to happen is the publishers need to fail so the budgets drop significantly.

Further,  publishers no longer serve their original purpose,  which was to market a product and get it on store shelves.  In today's world,  any developer could easily buy the same banner ads and get Gamestop to add a SKU.  Now publishers are banks,  controlling the money that allows games to be developed.

This relationship exists only because of underhanded tactics.  When the 3D revolution occurred,  and budgets skyrocketed,  developers were unprepared.  Publishers funded them,  but gave them a pittance of the revenues,  keeping them dependent,  until we get to today,  when development houses are so starved of the revenues of their work they can't self fund.

Which leads to the final problem with publishers.  They inhibit good design.  Their purpose is contrary.  A publisher isn't interested in making a good game,  they're interested in revenues.  But they are the ones who dictate what can and can't get made.  As Chris Avelone recently said,  Publishers won't listen to many pitches,  because it isn't the most likely game to sell 10 million units.  They dictate what will get made,  and how it will be made,  much like what is obviously happened to ME2 and ME3.

The next two years will be great.  We will see the death of most of the publishers as their failure to innovate leads to a stagnant market and steadily decreasing revenues.  We will see game development return to game developers.  That's why Double Fine's kickstarter was so very important. 

I predict they will go the route of the RIAA/MPAA  Instead of adapting with new technology they will simply bribe politicians to pass laws that favor them and keep developers dependent on them.  Read up on the Megaupload case.  Piracy was just a flimsy excuse to take them down,  the fact was they complied with the DMCA and the takedown requets as required by law.  Now realize they were about to launch a new music service that would allow artists to put their music online for sale while giving them 90% of the profits.  Now you realize why the feds decided to take them down.  I predict new laws will make it harder for indie developers to release games as a result of major publishers "lobbying"  (read:  Bribary) lawmakers to get laws changed.

[Gnarlesee]

This is why PC is the future. If stuff gets too expensive, you will show them by not buying the game, but downloading it instead.

But so far people let themselves get milked enough compared to how many who pirate the game.
But the very very smart call was making a good and fun coop multiplayer.
Because you cant pirate that, so they can pincermove people. Very smart, and it works.

If a game does this type of thing, and does not include a multiplayer, then the piracy % will go up drastically if they push the wrong buttons (like the ashes to ashes DLC)

[Jake71887]

AlanC9 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Karimloo wrote...
Whatever BioWare, keep eating from EA's hands.

Bio is EA. There's no difference. Hasn't been for years.

Influence is not the same as total control.

EA's had total control for over four years. Didn't mean to imply anything else.

Please provide proof of them micro-managing every part of Bioware's game design... If you can't, please stop spreading conspiracy and hearsay. 

[Chromie]

Jake71887 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Karimloo wrote...
Whatever BioWare, keep eating from EA's hands.

Bio is EA. There's no difference. Hasn't been for years.

Influence is not the same as total control.

EA's had total control for over four years. Didn't mean to imply anything else.

Please provide proof of them micro-managing every part of Bioware's game design... If you can't, please stop spreading conspiracy and hearsay. 

Oh please Bioware is a brand name now. Bioware Austin developed Old Republic which has a lot of people from Warhammer. The new Command and Conquer game is Bioware game in name only. Dragon Age 2 wasn't given the time it deserved to be properly developed and Mass Effect 3 already has first day dlc that everyone will buy.

[Dragonikus]

This is an insult from Bioware and I will not buy that DLC, never, I refuse to agree and bend over for such a thing.
I am buying the game, and I am also showing a middle finger to whoever thought this was a good idea.

[violation of rule #7 removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 26 février 2012 - 06:04 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Ringo12 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Karimloo wrote...
Whatever BioWare, keep eating from EA's hands.

Bio is EA. There's no difference. Hasn't been for years.

Influence is not the same as total control.

EA's had total control for over four years. Didn't mean to imply anything else.

Please provide proof of them micro-managing every part of Bioware's game design... If you can't, please stop spreading conspiracy and hearsay. 

Oh please Bioware is a brand name now. Bioware Austin developed Old Republic which has a lot of people from Warhammer. The new Command and Conquer game is Bioware game in name only. Dragon Age 2 wasn't given the time it deserved to be properly developed and Mass Effect 3 already has first day dlc that everyone will buy.

Slightly off topic but didn't you used to be in my friends list? Curious as to what topic/discussion drove you away.

[Chromie]

Dragonikus wrote...

This is an insult from Bioware and I will not buy that DLC, never, I refuse to agree and bend over for such a thing.
I am buying the game, but I am pirating this DLC, and I am also showing a middle finger to whoever thought this was a good idea.

Unfortunately this is all I can Bioware doing is promoting pirates.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I have always said block the pirate websites from their sources, and stop being sh*tty toward PC gaming you developers.

[Cody211282]

Dragonikus wrote...

This is an insult from Bioware and I will not buy that DLC, never, I refuse to agree and bend over for such a thing.
I am buying the game, but I am pirating this DLC, and I am also showing a middle finger to whoever thought this was a good idea.

Or you could just not buy the DLC and not prirate it.

Pirates are the reason people who complane about the day 1 DLC get labled as entitled.

[Jake71887]

Ringo12 wrote...
Oh please Bioware is a brand name now. Bioware Austin developed Old Republic which has a lot of people from Warhammer. The new Command and Conquer game is Bioware game in name only. Dragon Age 2 wasn't given the time it deserved to be properly developed and Mass Effect 3 already has first day dlc that everyone will buy.

Bioware has been a brand name since long before it merged with EA. SWTOR doesn't really have a lot of people from Warhammer, but the few it does is expected since Bioware took over managing Mythic Entertainment. Can't say much about C&C, but DA2 is a prime example of EA's influence, not necessarily it's control. And lastly, as neither you nor me has any idea what's happening behind closed doors, their entire policy is speculation. But I will say that the biggest change to Bioware is it's marketing, little else.

[Dragoonlordz]

Not quite sure why people talking about brand names. Bioware has always been a brand since the day they created the studio. Products created under the banner/brand of Bioware. Kind of pointless train of thought or discussion/debate.

[Ghost-621]

Guns_of_Freedom wrote...

To everyone still complaining that you have to pay to get exclusive CE DLC how about you tell Bioware thank you for even giving you a chance to play the DLC

Biodrones gonna drone.

Get out of here.

[Dragonikus]

Cody211282 wrote...

Dragonikus wrote...

This is an insult from Bioware and I will not buy that DLC, never, I refuse to agree and bend over for such a thing.
I am buying the game, but I am pirating this DLC, and I am also showing a middle finger to whoever thought this was a good idea.

Or you could just not buy the DLC and not prirate it.

Pirates are the reason people who complane about the day 1 DLC get labled as entitled.

Weird logic, to be honest. This is a major piece of content that was cut away from the game just so I have to pay 10 more bucks. Not a gun for a couple of bucks which I bought without a problem. And my patience has been pushed to the limits with The Old Republic, because there's plenty of content missing in that game, and you could see it in Beta, but that's another story.

I'd expect Bioware to be extra generous with ME3, to show the appreciation of us buying their games. I have never pirated a Bioware game and I am proud of it, but this time I am going to do what they are trying to do to me - cheat and steal, just the DLC though...

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Guns_of_Freedom wrote...

To everyone still complaining that you have to pay to get exclusive CE DLC how about you tell Bioware thank you for even giving you a chance to play the DLC

Biodrones gonna drone.

Get out of here.

*High 5*

[Ghost-621]

I can't believe that people suck up to bioware thinking that they're going to get some special treat or something. It's pathetic. Bioware/EA doesn't give a crap about you. They already have your money.

Bioware has fallen through the cracks of greed. Now they're just in the same muck of companies that no longer listen to their fans.