83 réponses à ce sujet

[Spikko]

Come on guys, don't feed the obvious troll.

[ninjaNumber1]

jimilpi wrote...

One thing be happy u even getting prothean squadmate as dlc if u got standard edition, or before this it was exclusively CE item , so instead of hating or whinning about day 1 dlc just be happy u getting it and appreciate it.

Happy? Happy that I am being screwed to pay more money to have access to a race that played a major role in the first two games?

Let me try to explain this in a simple way.

Is it clear that BW has done something unethical? No. But what is sure is that if BW really cared about the fans, they would have put this piece in the game for everyone who bought it new. They know what a Prothean is to the lore of the game. To go and make it exclusive for people who pay more just goes to show how much they cared. So BW didn't break the law. They can do obviously anything with what they sell. If they wanted to, they could exclude the ending from the product. But what that sort of thing does is break the trust fans had towards them to NOT SCREW US OVER.

I hope they ME3 gets a pretty bad Metacritic score for that.

[izmirtheastarach]

The character has nothing to do with the main story. If you are really interested in the lore, then buy the DLC. If you are not, then don't. The only way anyone gets screwed is if the are forced to buy the DLC. No one is being forced to, though. If you don't buy it, you can't get screwed.

The only thing you can do to show you don't like this kind of thing is not buy the DLC. But you're not a victim. You're not even a customer yet, unless you've payed full up front for your pre-order.

[ninjaNumber1]

hawat333 wrote...

Yeah, one of these days that awful lot of complaining (rightful or not) will really cause some negative outcomes. For example: No DLC at all. At all. And I mean no additional content, so not even an expansion pack (oh god, I would love to see an expansion pack for ME3 when it's all done)

No DLC would actually be better. Then people will actually make good games where costumes and characters are unlockables. Not something you have to pay for after buying the game.

Oh and about expansions, that is the worst **** ever. You are charged 10% to 20% of the original price of a game for something that doesn't even last for 10% of the original game's playthrough time. You wanna see a proper expansion? SC: BROOD WAR was a true expansion. It was so good that people actually play the expansion these days more than the actual game. But all these ME2 DLC expansions were great rip offs.

[ninjaNumber1]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

The character has nothing to do with the main story. If you are really interested in the lore, then buy the DLC. If you are not, then don't. The only way anyone gets screwed is if the are forced to buy the DLC. No one is being forced to, though. If you don't buy it, you can't get screwed.

The only thing you can do to show you don't like this kind of thing is not buy the DLC. But you're not a victim. You're not even a customer yet, unless you've payed full up front for your pre-order.

I did pay full up-front for my pre-order and no, I am not a victim. That is why I said BW hasn't done anything illegal.

They merely broke the trust fans should have on them to include things that matter in the standard game.

[izmirtheastarach]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

I did pay full up-front for my pre-order and no, I am not a victim. That is why I said BW hasn't done anything illegal.

They merely broke the trust fans should have on them to include things that matter in the standard game.

And yet we've been told by Bioware that it doesn't matter to the game. I've also seen that confirmed by someone who has played the game. If the game is terribly broken without the DLC, then you'll have a point there. But do you really think that' the case?

No worries though. We disagree. Not the end of the world.

[NeecHMonkeY]

I think some of you people need to have a good read of this Forbes article
and consider the long run implications of Day One DLC such as this:

Why the Exploitation of Gamers is Our Own Damn Fault

Some people might say they're happy to support this or that they
don't care, that's it's only $10 and Bioware deserve our money for all
the great games and hard work, etc.

It's true, Bioware and even EA deserve to be paid in full for their
work just like any other business which is why we pay for games in the
first place. I'll even pay for additional content that extends the life
of the game after a game is released.

This though, this is different. This is EA/Bioware testing the waters
to see what they can get away with. This is actual game content being
released on Day One at a cost. It's not character or weapon skins that
give you bragging rights online, it's not even an incentive for you to
buy the game new rather than 2nd hand... it's actual content
that was developed before release and separated in order to charge
customers an additional $10 for a game they've just paid full price for.
Even if this was planned to be released separately does not excuse it.

This is a very bad thing and a clear sign of worse things to come in the games industry.

Where does something like this end? Buy a new RPG but you can only
play the main campaign... the side quests cost you extra? Want to play a
game on a harder difficulty? That's an extra $5. Paid DLC released 6 months before
a game is finished as a way to promote the game.

Trust me on this; You might be ok this time with what EA and Bioware
are doing... maybe even the next time they do it. Eventually though,
everyone has a limit to how far they'll let themselves be pushed and at
that time you're either going to fall over the edge or brace yourself
and start pushing back.

Modifié par NeecHMonkeY, 26 février 2012 - 06:24 .

[izmirtheastarach]

I've never felt exploited, and I don't feel exploited by this either.

They spent time and money creating content that they want to sell. I've never understood why that should bother me.

If as you say they go to far, then their model will not work, the product will fail financially, and they will have to rethink it.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 26 février 2012 - 06:33 .

[NeecHMonkeY]

This general attitude by most gamers that it is ok for Publishers to do this kind of thing just opens the gates for any company to start cutting content from games and releasing it separately on Day One at an extra price... so long as they tell you it was planned all along, you'll buy into it.

Unfortunately, their business model will work... it already has... just look around this thread and see all the people that think it's great.

Most kids working in factories in India don't feel exploited either because they see their life as perfectly normal - it's all they've ever known. It's only until someone opens their eyes and shows them the real world that they realize that something was actually wrong the whole time.

Modifié par NeecHMonkeY, 26 février 2012 - 06:43 .

[izmirtheastarach]

I've been a gamer for 20 years. It's not like this is a sudden thing. And there's no need for your arrogant condescension. The fact that I'm not bothered by this doesn't make me an ignorant moron, and I assume the fact that you are bothered by it doesn't make you a self entitled twit. We just have different opinions.

If half the game was missing and sold as day one DLC, I would not buy either the game or the DLC. But that's not what this is, and no amount of self serving exaggeration will make it so. It's a couple of hours of completely optional content that was made to be sold separately. It's not going to murder your dog.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 26 février 2012 - 06:49 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

Are people really supporting this? They don't mind that they have to pay $10 for a single squad complete with mission and guns? Bioware could have cut any number of Squad mates from the the main ME3 to sell for $10 and claim that they ran out of time and you Bioware apologists would happily eat the Bio****.

Look, if you're going to defend these kind of DLC practices you owe it to yourselves to at least DEMAND that the value of the DLCs content is proportional to the value of the hour to dollar ratio for the $60 game. The $10 Prothean DLC is not, and is probably not worth more than 2 hours of mission and dialogue.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 26 février 2012 - 06:50 .

[izmirtheastarach]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Are people really supporting this? They don't mind that they have to pay $10 for a single squad complete with mission and guns? Bioware could have cut any number of Squad mates from the the main ME3 to sell for $10 and claim that they ran out of time and you Bioware apologists would happily eat the Bio****.

Look,if you're going to defend these kind of DLC practices you owe it to yourselves to at least DEMAND that the value of the DLCs content is proportional to the value of the hour to dollar ratio for the $60 game. The $10 Prothean DLC is not, and is probably not worth more than 2 hours of mission and dialogue.

Some people will support it, some won't.

And I actually agree with you on the value proposition issue. The content seems a bit overpriced. While I'm annoyed by people who think the whole concept is the devil, if the argument is that $10 is too much, I'm on board with that argument. I wonder if that price is partly to avoid screaming from people who pre-ordered the CE.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 26 février 2012 - 06:56 .

[NeecHMonkeY]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I've been a gamer for 20 years. It's not like this is a sudden thing. And there's no need for your arrogant condescension. The fact that I'm not bothered by this doesn't make me an ignorant moron, and I assume the fact that you are bothered by it doesn't make you a self entitled twit. We just have different opinions.

If half the game was missing and sold as day one DLC, I would not buy either the game or the DLC. But that's not what this is, and no amount of self serving exaggeration will make it so. It's a couple of hours of completely optional content that was made to be sold separately. It's not going to murder your dog.

I meant no condescension and not once did I make this a subtle personal attack on you.

The whole situation just makes me sad and more than a little scared for what's about to come in the games industry. I've been gaming for about 20 years too and this kind of thing never happened until the current generation of console/PC gaming.

I'm bowing out of gaming now, my time has finally come to an end as I knew it would when the industry started creating 'business models' such as this.

As I said in my earlier post; People might support them this time, maybe even the next but everyone has a line drawn somewhere... even if they don't even know where that actually is right now.

[izmirtheastarach]

This kind of business changes faster then any of us can predict. The music industry is nothing like it was 10 years ago. Gaming is still a young medium, and there's no way for us to predict where it will be in 10 years.

For myself, there is no point where I will ever "bow out" of gaming. The older I get the less I care about silly things like this. I can afford to play pretty much any game I want, and I likely always will be able to. I enjoy all forms of entertainment, and I don't mind paying for them.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 26 février 2012 - 07:28 .

[sea-]

Yeah guys, you should be happy you have the privilege to spend your hard-earned money on substandard entertainment products. I mean, what would you spend it on anyway? Food? Medication? Your mortgage?  Your children?  A better game? Come on, that's crazy talk.

Modifié par sea-, 26 février 2012 - 07:40 .

[izmirtheastarach]

sea- wrote...

Yeah guys, you should be happy you have the privilege to spend your hard-earned money on substandard entertainment products. I mean, what would you spend it on anyway? Food? Medication? Your mortgage?  Your children?  A better game? Come on, that's crazy talk.

First world problems all the way.

[thegamefreek78648]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

Most kids working in factories in India don't feel exploited either because they see their life as perfectly normal.

<_< 

Yeah, because paying $10 bucks is akin to working in a sweat shop for pennies an hour.  My eyes have been opened to the evils of the world where game developers who have nothing to do while their work is being chewed over decide to make something that will appeal to the fans and as an extra thank you to those who paid extra for the C.E. version of a game, then went an extra step to make the stuff avalable to everyone, not just the C.E. crowd.

What has the world come to.....

[Nashiktal]

I'm just annoyed that a live PROTHEAN, the mysterious race we have been wanting more information on, the only race that we know less about than the reapers, a race so important that they are who we should thank for even a chance to fight the reapers....

Is a payed DLC that without has no effect on the main campaign.

Monetizing important plot points, payed DLC made during development.... Ugh.

[CosmicTony]

Most of everything related to Entertainment/Art/Recreation and its value is completely Intrinsic. People may argue costings and overheads etc but people pay what they are willing to, welcome to Capitalism. We do dig our own hole simply by saying, "yeah, $10 is fine, sure."
It Starts and Ends with the consumer, you aren't entitled to anything, you are only free to choose what you spend your money on (and often not even that).
The reason EA and every other major publisher gets to dictate terms at the moment is because their audience are either collection-minded, thinking they need everything for one product otherwise they are "MISSING OUT" (lets face it Gamers totally are that), or they do in fact have the income to just get whatever they want for a game without consequence to there wallet. I mean the whole concept of extra merchandise is all about fan exploitation and EVERYONE falls for it, not just Gamers. Games companies are just cashing in on what Sports clubs and Films have been doing for decades.
Trust me, there'll be a tested boundary soon, is this it? No not even close. Maybe if this was priced at $15 and was no more than 2 hrs of content we would see EA realise they have met their limit. Right now everyone is feeling about for the unwritten rules...hell maybe it will get so bad ACTUAL RULES will be made saying X content must be Y price, could happen.

Frankly I am still waiting to see if the DLC is actually worth the frustration. Prothean does not mean important, sorry it just doesn't.

[CommanderCoffee]

I'm going to rub that unlock code all over my naked, fat, sweaty, goony body

[NeecHMonkeY]

thegamefreek78648 wrote...

<_< 

Yeah, because paying $10 bucks is akin to working in a sweat shop for pennies an hour.  My eyes have been opened to the evils of the world where game developers who have nothing to do while their work is being chewed over decide to make something that will appeal to the fans and as an extra thank you to those who paid extra for the C.E. version of a game, then went an extra step to make the stuff avalable to everyone, not just the C.E. crowd.

What has the world come to.....

How silly of me, I completely forgot that this DLC was only developed after the full game went gold... I should believe everything that the PR department told us because they haven't lied about anything before.

I must have been mistaken when information about the Prothean squad member leaked last year (July?)... at least, they probably didn't do anything with him past the voice and left all the work on him and the mission that comes with him until the game went gold and the team were bored with nothing else to do.

Didn't leave much time for the Collector's Edition packaging, did it?

Also, my comment about kids in sweat shops is actually irrelevant to the issue at hand and certainly has nothing to do with the price of the DLC pack... I'm not even sure where you got that idea. The point of it was that those who are being exploited usually never know that they are... kids in sweat shops is just an example that most people can understand even if they can't empathise with the idea.

[jeinasindorei]

Nashiktal wrote...

I'm just annoyed that a live PROTHEAN, the mysterious race we have been wanting more information on, the only race that we know less about than the reapers, a race so important that they are who we should thank for even a chance to fight the reapers....

Is a payed DLC that without has no effect on the main campaign.

Monetizing important plot points, payed DLC made during development.... Ugh.

The Air of Mystery surrounding the Protheans was quickly blown away after Mass Effect 1. There was nothing special or interesting about them after that.

There is no mystery to their disappearance. They were just another civilization that got harvested. They didn't do anything overly spectacular or amazing other than reprogramming the Keepers. The most you're going to learn about them in this game will be their civilization, it'll be the same type of information you know about all the other spaceflight races in the ME Universe. You'll probably learn their home planet and their mating habits. Maybe their cuisine.

They're not going to fill any giant plot-holes. They're nothing special.

There are TWO mysterious races in the known ME Universe: Reapers and Keepers. That's it. Everyone else is just a run-of-the-mill, soon-to-be wiped (or already wiped out) galactic civilization.

Also the paid DLC was made AFTER DEVELOPMENT. Learn this fact.

[Psynonamous635]

Give everyone access to the Prothean and give CE buyers a Reaper squadmate?

[NeecHMonkeY]

jeinasindorei wrote...

Also the paid DLC was made AFTER DEVELOPMENT. Learn this fact.

Lol

[furryrage59]

People defending removing a character from the game and selling it back to us are an odd bunch.

Makes you wonder how someone rationalises something like that mentally.