60 réponses à ce sujet

[Esperys]

It doesn't matter if I use a shotgun (for around 180% recharge), pistol or SMG (both 200% recharge), the human vanguard is for all intents and purposes immortal. So long as you take Barrier from the charge (for a full 100% barrier return after each charge) and the dual nova (so you can nova for 60% damage but only 50% barrier consumption) nothing can kill you.

The problem is that while in the charge animation -AND- the nova animations, you are immune to incoming damage. If you chain Charge> nova > nova > charge > repeat the only things that have a remote chance of defeating you are Atlas instant kill grabs or Phantom instant kill melee attacks. Even those two enemies can easily be killed with this method, however, if you stay at the edge of your nova range while DPSing them.

Is this how they are intending to be played? Right now...the only time my human vanguard dies is when I make a stupid mistake (like hitting the wrong button or sitting on top of an atlas while fighting) or when stagger glitches on a phantom (still not usually a problem, unless I'm novaing right on top of the phantom like an idiot).

I love the class, obviously. If this is how they're intended to function then...damn...high risk/high reward is an underestatement. But at the same time....why play anything else? 4x human vanguards each picking their own area to clear would result in rediculously fast pushes through bronze/silver at the very least. ( Likely gold too if your reaction time / situational awareness is top form.)

[Sabresandiego]

In gold you can easily be killed by phantoms, sniper nemesis, atlas, and even grunts before your recharge cools down if you do a bad charge.

[stjasonl]

Are you playing bronze

[Naqey]

you can do that on gold, no problem. it is too easy. the only problem I really have is running out of targets to charge >_>
imo they should remove the double nova talent (but they won´t), because fixing the whole immunity thing during the nova / charge animation would be a major change to the game code (I think)

[Esperys]

I have just as much ease on silver as I do bronze. Gold I havn't done yet simply because the people I play with 'aren't ready'.

As for recharge, you are missing the point I think: There is no recharge. In the time it takes you to chain nova twice (remember, you are completely immune to damage during the animations of nova) your biotic charge is ready (and you remain immune to damage when you chain into the charge, refilling your barrier and starting the process over again).

[Shadow of Terror]

Well, it's so powerful to counter the charge bugs.

The only times you die are that, unable to get a target, or when a phantom hits you as you charge/guardian doesn't get stunned and hits you and they both stun you and make you stagger, thus not able to nova.

[stjasonl]

An asari adept can get the recharge of throw to like .25 sec and just spam it all day, it's all to do with the crazy recharge with one gun.

[Naqey]

stjasonl wrote...

An asari adept can get the recharge of throw to like .25 sec and just spam it all day, it's all to do with the crazy recharge with one gun.

you can actually run around with two guns as a vanguard (e.g. x version pistol / shotgun, as long its not the claymore or carnifex) and still pull this off

[stjasonl]

I do wish they made the claymore reasonably usable for Vanguards. The difference in weight of rare guns isn't comparable to how much better they are they all have other major downsides like accuracy, rounds or major kick.

[Naqey]

stjasonl wrote...

I do wish they made the claymore reasonably usable for Vanguards. The difference in weight of rare guns isn't comparable to how much better they are they all have other major downsides like accuracy, rounds or major kick.

and infiltrator with a widow (or claymore, if you prefer the more "active" playstyle) and to some extend the soldier class don´t really suffer to much from the weight issues.
but yeah, for every other class, those weapons are pointless imo. I wonder what the rest of the weapons will be like (black widow and all that good me3 stuff )

Modifié par Naqey, 25 février 2012 - 01:02 .

[dw99027]

I agree with the OP. I deliberately avoided the dual Nova evolution to maintain a semblance of a challenge.

[stjasonl]

I have a level 20 vanguard with no points in nova and I can wreak s**** on silver. shock wave with lift is fun it's like skeet shooting.  The asari is going to be crazy though stasis with charge will cause botic detinations.

Modifié par stjasonl, 25 février 2012 - 01:20 .

[Esperys]

I regret what few small amount of points I put into shockwave on my human vanguard. It's absolutely useless. With charge and nova both knocking guardian's shields back, it's only niche I had once used it for has become obsolete. Charge and nova make you damage immune, plus doing more damage.

[CerberusSoldier]

Esperys wrote...

It doesn't matter if I use a shotgun (for around 180% recharge), pistol or SMG (both 200% recharge), the human vanguard is for all intents and purposes immortal. So long as you take Barrier from the charge (for a full 100% barrier return after each charge) and the dual nova (so you can nova for 60% damage but only 50% barrier consumption) nothing can kill you.

The problem is that while in the charge animation -AND- the nova animations, you are immune to incoming damage. If you chain Charge> nova > nova > charge > repeat the only things that have a remote chance of defeating you are Atlas instant kill grabs or Phantom instant kill melee attacks. Even those two enemies can easily be killed with this method, however, if you stay at the edge of your nova range while DPSing them.

Is this how they are intending to be played? Right now...the only time my human vanguard dies is when I make a stupid mistake (like hitting the wrong button or sitting on top of an atlas while fighting) or when stagger glitches on a phantom (still not usually a problem, unless I'm novaing right on top of the phantom like an idiot).

I love the class, obviously. If this is how they're intended to function then...damn...high risk/high reward is an underestatement. But at the same time....why play anything else? 4x human vanguards each picking their own area to clear would result in rediculously fast pushes through bronze/silver at the very least. ( Likely gold too if your reaction time / situational awareness is top form.)

   



You have a choice to make when evolving it but they better not remove power choices just because you do not like it . This is not a PVP game so it really does not matter . its called Player choice and Bioware is allowing it . thats what Mass Effect has been based on

[Jestina]

Shockwave was only useful on the easy levels of ME2 so i've never bothered with it.

And i'll be glad when full game is out. People will be whining about Krogan sentinels being op or something and let off crying about vanguards.

[CerberusSoldier]

Jestina wrote...

Shockwave was only useful on the easy levels of ME2 so i've never bothered with it.

And i'll be glad when full game is out. People will be whining about Krogan sentinels being op or something and let off crying about vanguards.

  


The vanguard is fine its just the fact the Op hates one power evloution that he or she is free to chose or not but the idea of taking that choice away is unfair to us who have no issue with it . PVP rules do not apply to a PVE game mode

[dw99027]

Shockwave is still more useful against Guardians than Charge, just try aiming it a bit to the side. I took 3 levels of SW instead of the last 2 levels of Fitness partially because of the reason above but mostly because a Vanguard with 900 barrier is just broken, even on MP. I like feeling super powerful but this is Skyrim-level imbalance.

[Legion64]

Vanguards are, of course, going to look unstoppable in bronze (pre-school). A vanguard in Silver will have to depend on their team, and in gold, well, a vanguard will need a whole new game plan.

[mredders91]

All the classes in MP have one race that can essentialy dominate but they are not overpowered not by a long shot remeber this is just the demo there are other enemys to come and they maybe not be as easy as you plan them to be

[stjasonl]

Shockwave with the bigger radius and longer distance is awesome you can throw it through wall corners get people out of cover.

[darkblade]

double post

Modifié par darkblade, 25 février 2012 - 01:59 .

[darkblade]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Shockwave was only useful on the easy levels of ME2 so i've never bothered with it.

And i'll be glad when full game is out. People will be whining about Krogan sentinels being op or something and let off crying about vanguards.

  


The vanguard is fine its just the fact the Op hates one power evloution that he or she is free to chose or not but the idea of taking that choice away is unfair to us who have no issue with it . PVP rules do not apply to a PVE game mode

I really hate when people try to excuse broken crap in a game by herping and derping about how PvP isnt in the game. That doesnt matter one iota, none, not at all do you understand?

PvP, PvE whatever brain dead, broken overpowered crap should be brought in line. Its not fair for some class/character combos get to be utterly retard friendly while the others have to fight like a crippled dog to support the team in any meaning ful way. 

The demo made this pretty clear is so bad that people are forgoing what race they want to be, sacrificing it for what race has the most misbalanced combo of skills.

Stasis is a mess
Nova, Charage, and Fitness need a rework.
Salarian infiltrator's bonus racial sniper rifle boost needs toning down or to be availble as an infiltrator skill.
Drell vanguard is all screwed up.
Other then vanguard some human classes are lack luster

Its not even that the bad classes are bad, Its just that they seem like they had a monkey create the class setups where most are meh and the other are just too well optimized. My only real hope for some semblence of balance is that we only fight cereberus in the demo, classes that dominate here might not dominate later....but truly i cant see a game enemy where a min/max novaguard spec wont dominate.

Modifié par darkblade, 25 février 2012 - 01:59 .

[IlluminaZer0]

All Bioware needs to do to balance (Human) Vanguards is freeze the cooldown timer during Nova's invulnerability animations.

No PvP being an excuse to not balance is a very bad rationale. Single player games are often patched for less exploitative gameplay.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 02:01 .

[Jestina]

Infiltrators are what I see topping out most in games, and adepts. It's rare that I see a vanguard on top of the list so I don't think there is too much broke about them.

[Legion64]

Jestina wrote...

Infiltrators are what I see topping out most in games, and adepts. It's rare that I see a vanguard on top of the list so I don't think there is too much broke about them.

I used to think Vanguards were at the top of the food chain when I was one. Then I tried the Asari Adept. I thought that was the best. Then I started playing as an Infiltrator. I will tell you this, infiltrator is one of the best classes. Nothing is more fun then headshots. But it's not about the scoreboard, it's about surviving so everyone gets a bunch of credits.