60 réponses à ce sujet

[Zkyire]

Esperys wrote...

It doesn't matter if I use a shotgun (for around 180% recharge), pistol or SMG (both 200% recharge), the human vanguard is for all intents and purposes immortal. So long as you take Barrier from the charge (for a full 100% barrier return after each charge) and the dual nova (so you can nova for 60% damage but only 50% barrier consumption) nothing can kill you.

The problem is that while in the charge animation -AND- the nova animations, you are immune to incoming damage. If you chain Charge> nova > nova > charge > repeat the only things that have a remote chance of defeating you are Atlas instant kill grabs or Phantom instant kill melee attacks. Even those two enemies can easily be killed with this method, however, if you stay at the edge of your nova range while DPSing them.

Is this how they are intending to be played? Right now...the only time my human vanguard dies is when I make a stupid mistake (like hitting the wrong button or sitting on top of an atlas while fighting) or when stagger glitches on a phantom (still not usually a problem, unless I'm novaing right on top of the phantom like an idiot).

I love the class, obviously. If this is how they're intended to function then...damn...high risk/high reward is an underestatement. But at the same time....why play anything else? 4x human vanguards each picking their own area to clear would result in rediculously fast pushes through bronze/silver at the very least. ( Likely gold too if your reaction time / situational awareness is top form.)

Only taking one weapon is the key there.

When I play Soldier I only carry the Mantis.

I stand as far back from the fight as possible and spam Mantis shots and Concussive shots.

Same effect, practically immortal unless I make a mistake.

[Esperys]

The key is the immunity given by the abilities animations.

Those crying "The OP just doesn't like one of the options" are being silly. I -love- the option. I can solo silver because of my vanguards immortality, and I suspect I'll be able to complete gold as well if I really practiced my timing. I'm not ****ing. I'm just pointing out something that the dev's may not have intended...the fact that a human vanguard can be, for all intents and purposes, completely immune to taking damage to their shield or HP bar.

If that's how they intended? Awesome. I'll be playing one. I just don't suspect that it is.....

[Jestina]

Cloak and sniper rifle...you can basically solo silver too. And I won't even go into stasis.

[Pedro Costa]

Vanguard's fine. Heavy risk/high reward - that's how it should be.

PS: EVERY class is overpowered if played as the devs intended it to be played.
PPS: These topics are getting tiresome.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 25 février 2012 - 04:18 .

[capn233]

Jestina wrote...

Cloak and sniper rifle...you can basically solo silver too. And I won't even go into stasis.

Stasis Bubble isn't as good for soloing as Cloak.  The "go here and mess with our beacon" waves are harder when you aren't invisible.

[Butthead11]

Jestina wrote...

Cloak and sniper rifle...you can basically solo silver too. And I won't even go into stasis.

Cloak and sniper rifle can't deal with wave 9. 

[goofyomnivore]

Vanguard has never been high risk high reward. In each game it has been one of the easier classes to play with the greatest reward. More like high fun high reward.

Cloak and sniper rifle can't deal with wave 9.

There is a silver thread of like two or three screenshots of Widow Infiltrators soloing it.

Modifié par strive, 25 février 2012 - 04:14 .

[IlluminaZer0]

strive wrote...
Vanguard has never been high risk high reward. In each game it has been one of the easier classes to play with the greatest reward. More like high fun high reward.

ME3 (Human) Vanguard. Otherwise I agree.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 04:18 .

[Hoki]

Legion64 wrote...

Vanguards are, of course, going to look unstoppable in bronze (pre-school). A vanguard in Silver will have to depend on their team, and in gold, well, a vanguard will need a whole new game plan.

Stasis, grenades, pull, shockwave, playing defensively like a gimp adept.

[goofyomnivore]

ME3 (Human) Vanguard.

The Drell you mean? The Human is the greatest offender of it imo.

[atheelogos]

Esperys wrote...

I have just as much ease on silver as I do bronze. Gold I havn't done yet simply because the people I play with 'aren't ready'.

As for recharge, you are missing the point I think: There is no recharge.

So what should we go back to ME2 biotics? Which were terrible by the way.

[IlluminaZer0]

strive wrote...

ME3 (Human) Vanguard

The Drell you mean? The Human is the greatest offender of it imo.

I agree 100%.

Meant that to be a modification of your mentions of "Vanguard" with "ME3 Human Vanguard." No one is going to call Drell play low-risk.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 04:23 .

[grayrest]

IlluminaZer0 wrote...

ME3 (Human) Vanguard. Otherwise I agree.

How are human Vanguards high risk? Full barrier/half blast and you can immunity frame tank an entire turret burst. You can screw up and get caught by a turret unaware, wind up on top of a strangely placed grenade (seriously, why is there a grenade right next to your buddy before I charged him?), and get caught charging into guardians during their stagger/swing immunity frames when a Phantom is approaching or an Atlas is shooting at you, but that's about the full extent of threats to a Vanguard on Bronze/Silver.

Edit: I guess I misunderstood your post. I will say that the only thing I think is safer in the series than a ME3 Human Vanguard is a ME2 Assault Sentinel.

Modifié par grayrest, 25 février 2012 - 04:27 .

[goofyomnivore]

Ah I get it now. Been cramming for a law test brain is somewhat melted.

[IlluminaZer0]

grayrest wrote...
How are human Vanguards high risk? Full barrier/half blast and you can immunity frame tank an entire turret burst. You can screw up and get caught by a turret unaware, wind up on top of a strangely placed grenade (seriously, why is there a grenade right next to your buddy before I charged him?), and get caught charging into guardians during their stagger/swing immunity frames when a Phantom is approaching or an Atlas is shooting at you, but that's about the full extent of threats to a Vanguard on Bronze/Silver.

Didn't realize my post was so unclear. Don't edit your post though since it's a good illustration of what's wrong with human vanguard.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 04:24 .

[CerberusSoldier]

darkblade wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Shockwave was only useful on the easy levels of ME2 so i've never bothered with it.

And i'll be glad when full game is out. People will be whining about Krogan sentinels being op or something and let off crying about vanguards.

  


The vanguard is fine its just the fact the Op hates one power evloution that he or she is free to chose or not but the idea of taking that choice away is unfair to us who have no issue with it . PVP rules do not apply to a PVE game mode

I really hate when people try to excuse broken crap in a game by herping and derping about how PvP isnt in the game. That doesnt matter one iota, none, not at all do you understand?

PvP, PvE whatever brain dead, broken overpowered crap should be brought in line. Its not fair for some class/character combos get to be utterly retard friendly while the others have to fight like a crippled dog to support the team in any meaning ful way. 

The demo made this pretty clear is so bad that people are forgoing what race they want to be, sacrificing it for what race has the most misbalanced combo of skills.

Stasis is a mess
Nova, Charage, and Fitness need a rework.
Salarian infiltrator's bonus racial sniper rifle boost needs toning down or to be availble as an infiltrator skill.
Drell vanguard is all screwed up.
Other then vanguard some human classes are lack luster

Its not even that the bad classes are bad, Its just that they seem like they had a monkey create the class setups where most are meh and the other are just too well optimized. My only real hope for some semblence of balance is that we only fight cereberus in the demo, classes that dominate here might not dominate later....but truly i cant see a game enemy where a min/max novaguard spec wont dominate.

  



No its people like you . Who want PVP rules as in nerf all the caster classes so 3 out of the 5 classes are worthless in Co Op . If all the classes were the same then whats the point in even having the 3 caster classes . This is not PVP so balance does not matter when these classes are set  up by player choice . PVP rules do not apply in a PVE co op game play . Plus there are many different characters providing you are lucky to unlock them that have different powers . but this idea of nerf stuff makes no sense when you as a player are not effected at all . It would be different if this was PVP but its not

[Giantdeathrobot]

Vanguards are OP... in Bronze/Silver. The same diffifulty where Widows, Krogan Soldiers, hell a whole bunch of things are OP. In Gold, things are different. My team of friends rock silver with such tactics, on Gold we have to rely on Stasis (which is far more broken than the Vanguard) in order not to be completely overwhelmed, and even then our Vanguard dies to; instant kill moves, staggers, grenades, turrets. because these take only a split second to down you in Gold, and there are so many enemies it's very hard to avoid unless you play as a coherent team. So no, the Vanguard is not ridiculous. Stasis is, as it makes everything but Guardians and Atlas a joke, and Atlases are too easily dispatched with missile launchers.

[grayrest]

IlluminaZer0 wrote...

Didn't realize my post was so unclear. Don't edit your post though since it's a good illustration of what's wrong with human vanguard.

I have a blast doing it, particularly doing it solo because it's all over if you do screw up. I started off doing solo runs because my experiecne with the ME2 Vanguard was that it's strong at high levels but really easy to screw up at low so I wanted to practice before subjecting people to my learning experience but it turned into being able to clear bronze. After doing so, I did my first actual multiplayer game and took ~2/3 of the XP. It was only after the match that I realized I was kind of being a jerk and should take it easy and focus more on eliminating Nemesis/Phantom/Mission targets and tanking Atlases for the team (Charge, Nova, .5s backpedal, Nova, backroll, repeat). Still get the most XP but the spread looks better and I don't feel like a jerk.

Modifié par grayrest, 25 février 2012 - 04:40 .

[CerberusSoldier]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Vanguards are OP... in Bronze/Silver. The same diffifulty where Widows, Krogan Soldiers, hell a whole bunch of things are OP. In Gold, things are different. My team of friends rock silver with such tactics, on Gold we have to rely on Stasis (which is far more broken than the Vanguard) in order not to be completely overwhelmed, and even then our Vanguard dies to; instant kill moves, staggers, grenades, turrets. because these take only a split second to down you in Gold, and there are so many enemies it's very hard to avoid unless you play as a coherent team. So no, the Vanguard is not ridiculous. Stasis is, as it makes everything but Guardians and Atlas a joke, and Atlases are too easily dispatched with missile launchers.

   



so how does that effecf you as a player when this is a PVE game mode . so you want to send Biotics back to ME 1 and 2 levels for no reason . This is stupid and dumb to nerf classes in a non PVP game . 

[IlluminaZer0]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...
Stasis is, as it makes everything but Guardians and Atlas a joke, and Atlases are too easily dispatched with missile launchers.

How are guardians exempt from Stasis spam? Stasis bubble works on them regardless of it's relative placement to the Guardian.

That one other thing is LoL overpowered does not make other things that are LoL overpowered any more acceptable.

At least stasis spam implies teammwork to be effective. That and stasis spam can easily be neutered by armor protection enemies (which is likely to be very common in husk variants of enemies).

CerberusSoldier wrote...
so how does that effecf you as a player when this is a PVE game mode. So you want to send Biotics back to ME 1 and 2 levels for no reason . This is stupid and dumb to nerf classes in a non PVP game . 

The only thing more OP than ME1 biotics was ME1 Soldier/Infiltrator immunity.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 04:44 .

[Jestina]

People are boohooing about vanguards when they are just fine, so I think it's only fair to point out the many other things in the game that are way more powerful...such as stasis.

[goofyomnivore]

All the classes are quite easy to play well. I haven't really figured out the Sentinel yet to where it is 'easy mode'. But that is kind of my biggest complaint against the gameplay it is fun don't get me wrong, but a few months down the line the lack of challenge is going to get boring.

[CerberusSoldier]

IlluminaZer0 wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...
Stasis is, as it makes everything but Guardians and Atlas a joke, and Atlases are too easily dispatched with missile launchers.

How are guardians exempt from Stasis spam? Stasis bubble works on them regardless of it's relative placement to the Guardian.

That one other thing is LoL overpowered does not make other things that are LoL overpowered any more acceptable.

At least stasis spam implies teammwork to be effective. That and stasis spam can easily be neutered by armor protection enemies (which is likely to be very common in husk variants of enemies).

CerberusSoldier wrote...
so how does that effecf you as a player when this is a PVE game mode. So you want to send Biotics back to ME 1 and 2 levels for no reason . This is stupid and dumb to nerf classes in a non PVP game . 

The only thing more OP than ME1 biotics was ME1 Soldier/Infiltrator immunity.

   



Again how did that impact you as a player in  SP game . OP is not bad for god 's sake this is a video game things do not have to be balanced or restricted to have fun . I hate the term nerf and the stupid and mis guided nerf garbage .  On second thought I have no interest in this MP mode if all it will do in time end up in a nerfed pile of dog crap

[IlluminaZer0]

CerberusSoldier wrote...
Again how did that impact you as a player in  SP game . OP is not bad for god 's sake this is a video game things do not have to be balanced or restricted to have fun . I hate the term nerf and the stupid and mis guided nerf garbage .  On second thought I have no interest in this MP mode if all it will do in time end up in a nerfed pile of dog crap

Diversity is good. Challenge can be fun.

Jestina wrote...
People are boohooing about vanguards when
they are just fine, so I think it's only fair to point out the many
other things in the game that are way more powerful...such as
stasis.

"Way" more powerful? Hardly. I can see someone arguing that stasis is overly good. Saying it is "way more powerful" than "Charge-->Nova" spam is false.

[Jestina]

Um no...stasis you can pretty much one or two shot your way through just about everything short of an Atlas. And you can do it from range so you are rarely in danger.