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[DeadPoolX]

According to the Mass Effect Wiki, Shepard's rank is that of Lieutenant Commander.  He/She's been that rank since ME1.

Now look at Ashley and Kaiden:

Ashley started off as a Gunnery Chief in ME1, was promoted to Operations Chief in ME2 and finally, promoted to Lieutenant Commander (a very large jump in rank) in ME3.

Kaiden was originally a Lieutenant in ME1, a Staff Commander in ME2 and finally, a Major in ME3.  Since ME2, he's outranked Shepard.

For reference, here's the rank
chart for the Systems Alliance Military.

Both Ashley and Kaiden are also Spectres, so they're also equal to him/her in that regard.

So I guess my question is this: considering all that Shepard's done for the galaxy, why hasn't he/she received a single promotion in all that time?

I know he/she's the commanding officer aboard the Normandy, so regardless of anyone else's rank on there, he/she's still in command.  Oddly enough, everyone still refers to him/her as "commander" when in reality, he/she should be addressed as "captain" (the actual rank doesn't matter, it's the position that counts). 

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 25 février 2012 - 12:53 .

[Slayer299]

1. Technically Shepard outranks Ashley due to the date he was promoted to Lt. Cmdr. which as prior to Ashley's promotion only 6 mos ago.

2. Shepard never received a promotion (if he was getting one after the Citadel) because he was a)killed by the Collectors and a Spectre and no longer considered part of the Alliance military.

3. In ME2 the crew on board the Normandy was mostly civilians, (excluding Ken, Gabby, Chakwas and Gardner) so it made sense for them to call Shepard, Commander and not Captain as that is a military point that they would not be aware of (rank vs ship's commander). I don't know why the 4 didn't call him Captain though.

edit - typo, clarity

Modifié par Slayer299, 25 février 2012 - 01:00 .

[izmirtheastarach]

If Ash is your VS, then you are in command of everyone on the Normandy. If Kaidan is, then technically he could leave the ship at any time and Shepard would have no way to prevent it. Not that I think it will matter in the story.

[Charsi]

Shepard didn't rank or gain position since he/she died in ME2, been 2 years away and when back start working for cerberus!! How could Shepard been ranked outside the Alliance Military ??

In all that time that Shepard lost, surely Ashely/Kaiden have been ranked/gain position, probably due some "important missions"!

Only in ME3 Shepard returns to aliance to the trial and with the same position/rank he/she had in ME1 ... if we look at that, is all correct!!

[izmirtheastarach]

Actually, only Kaidan was promoted normally. Ashley is retconned in ME3. In the codex, it says the was promoted to Lieutenant Commander after the Battle of the Citadel, which is a ridiculously silly promotion. She is made an officer and raised four grades overnight. It's impossible. It's one of the reasons I'm glad she's not alive in my canon.

[DeadPoolX]

Slayer299 wrote...

1. Technically Shepard outranks Ashley due to the date he was promoted to Lt. Cmdr. which as prior to Ashley's promotion only 6 mos ago.

2. Shepard never received a promotion (if he was getting one after the Citadel) because he was a)killed by the Collectors and a Spectre and no longer considered part of the Alliance military.

3. In ME2 the crew on board the Normandy was mostly civilians, (excluding Ken, Gabby, Chakwas and Gardner) so it made sense for them to call Shepard, Commander and not Captain as that is a military point that they would not be aware of (rank vs ship's commander). I don't know why the 4 didn't call him Captain though.

edit - typo, clarity

1. Good point about the promotion date.  I just hope we learn how Ashley got such a large promotion.  Maybe she did something amazingly heroic or perhaps a lot of higher ranking soldiers got killed.  Could be a brevet promotion, I suppose, but those haven't been widely used since the 19th century.

2. I agree on the Spectre part, but I'm surprised Shepard didn't receive a promotion posthumously.  Maybe it wouldn't stick, though.  Hard to tell, since no one's ever come back from the dead before!

3. Honestly, I think BioWare didn't have the crew (civilian or military) address Shepard correctly because it'd probably confuse too many people.  Still, it would've been nice to see -- correctly addressing Shepard, I mean, not confusing people (although that's sometimes fun too).

[incinerator950]

Slayer299 wrote...

1. Technically Shepard outranks Ashley due to the date he was promoted to Lt. Cmdr. which as prior to Ashley's promotion only 6 mos ago.

2. Shepard never received a promotion (if he was getting one after the Citadel) because he was a)killed by the Collectors and a Spectre and no longer considered part of the Alliance military.
edit - typo, clarity

He was a Spectre, even though he was still a member of the Alliance Navy. He's Alliance, he was pushed forward on the Spectre candidacy as a PR stunt, even though he's more then qualified.  It's tradition to call the Commanding Officer of a Vessel Captain hon.

[Legion64]

Good thing I killed Kaidan. NO ONE is in charge of me! I am Shepard!

[G3rman]

Ashley and Kaidan had stable military careers before, during, and after the events of ME1 and 2. Shepard on the other hand has not, becoming a Spectre and then dealing with Cerberus without any contact to Alliance Command will not get you any favorite points.

[WarGriffin]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Actually, only Kaidan was promoted normally. Ashley is retconned in ME3. In the codex, it says the was promoted to Lieutenant Commander after the Battle of the Citadel, which is a ridiculously silly promotion. She is made an officer and raised four grades overnight. It's impossible. It's one of the reasons I'm glad she's not alive in my canon.

That and she proclaims Shepards a god...

She's kinda nuts...

It's why i like Kaiden... His the normal one out of my dysfunctional bunch

[KMYash]

I just don't get why Shepard didn't get a promotion after the Battle of the Citadel. It's been a while but I vaguely remember people reminding Shep in ME1 that even if they were a Spectre they were still human/answered to the Alliance. But that could be a memory error.

Plus it wouldn't have the same ring as ShepardCommander from Legion

[Melra]

I wondered the ranks a bit as well, not really sure what to think about it atm. The situation with Kaidan and Shepard is bit weird, I hope they explain it in the game.

[Stokie Stallion]

Its the fame behind shepard that gains the respect of all others, ashley could be admiral and still she be on her knees. Shepard is the boss lord and saviour and should be the one and only council member.

[Slayer299]

incinerator950 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

1. Technically Shepard outranks Ashley due to the date he was promoted to Lt. Cmdr. which as prior to Ashley's promotion only 6 mos ago.

2. Shepard never received a promotion (if he was getting one after the Citadel) because he was a)killed by the Collectors and a Spectre and no longer considered part of the Alliance military.
edit - typo, clarity

He was a Spectre, even though he was still a member of the Alliance Navy. He's Alliance, he was pushed forward on the Spectre candidacy as a PR stunt, even though he's more then qualified.  It's tradition to call the Commanding Officer of a Vessel Captain hon.

Not really, once he became a Spectre he was no longer Alliance Navy, its something Hackett says to you over and over during the missions you get. But yes, he should have been called Captain by the crew, but as DeadPoolMK above mentioned, it probably would have confused too many people who might be unfamiliar with the difference between Shepard's "rank" as Commander and "title" as Captain of the Normandy. *I* understand it clearly, but others not familiar, maybe not so much, although I do wish they had done it correctly.

Modifié par Slayer299, 25 février 2012 - 05:25 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Ash is dead to me, and I'm looking forward to playing through submissions with my "three amigos" squad.

[Slayer299]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Actually, only Kaidan was promoted normally. Ashley is retconned in ME3. In the codex, it says the was promoted to Lieutenant Commander after the Battle of the Citadel, which is a ridiculously silly promotion. She is made an officer and raised four grades overnight. It's impossible. It's one of the reasons I'm glad she's not alive in my canon.

Seriously??? They did that?? I hadn't read the ME3 Codex, but that is just sad on BW's part, because a jump that many rungs up the ladder just makes no sense.

[izmirtheastarach]

You sort of have to take the statement as vaguly as possible. She was promoted to LT Commander after the Battle of the Citadel. The codex really sounds like it means RIGHT after. But if you want it to make sense you can just assume that she was promoted up through the ranks from ME1 to ME3. Even that is hard to believe, but at least it's better the a retcon.

And it is a retcon. If Bioware had just had Anderson call her Lieutenant Williams instead of Operations Chief Williams in ME2, everything would make a lot more sense.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 25 février 2012 - 05:30 .

[modeseven]

Slayer299 wrote...

1. Technically Shepard outranks Ashley due to the date he was promoted to Lt. Cmdr. which as prior to Ashley's promotion only 6 mos ago.

2. Shepard never received a promotion (if he was getting one after the Citadel) because he was a)killed by the Collectors and a Spectre and no longer considered part of the Alliance military.

3. In ME2 the crew on board the Normandy was mostly civilians, (excluding Ken, Gabby, Chakwas and Gardner) so it made sense for them to call Shepard, Commander and not Captain as that is a military point that they would not be aware of (rank vs ship's commander). I don't know why the 4 didn't call him Captain though.

edit - typo, clarity

Picking nits here, but Ken, Gabby, Chakwas, Chambers et all are not civilians. The crew of the Normandy is also not civilain. They're enlisted. Yeomans, engineers, etc are all roles people fill in Navies, but they are not civilians.

Chakwas is an officer. All doctors in militaries are (along with Chaplians). Ashley's rise to Lt Cmdr is especially odd because it's not JUST an increase in rank, but a crossover from enlisted to officer. That's an important distinction.

Modifié par modeseven, 25 février 2012 - 05:56 .

[DeadPoolX]

izmirtheastarach wrote...
And it is a retcon. If Bioware had just had Anderson call her Lieutenant Williams instead of Operations Chief Williams in ME2, everything would make a lot more sense.

I think the Wiki initially referred to Ashley's rank as Lieutenant in ME3 (and subsequently edited after the demo was released).  I was surprised to hear Anderson call her "Lieutenant Commander" several times.

Something I find interesting is that although the Wiki states that Shepard's rank is Lieutenant Commander (and I recall BioWare saying something to that effect, but that was a while ago), no one ever calls him that.  They always say "Commander."

I know that dropping the "Lieutenant" part is normal when quickly saying someone's rank, but I don't remember anyone ever calling Shepard by his full rank.  The reason I bring that up is because Anderson very clearly calls Ashley "Lieutenant Commander" and never once shorterns it to simply "Commander." 

So that raises some questions:
1. Did Shepard get a promotion to Staff Commander at some point?
2. Is the Wiki wrong?
3. Was there some sort of miscommunication within BioWare?

modeseven wrote...
Picking nits here, but Ken, Gabby, Chakwas,
Chambers et all are not civilians. The crew of the Normandy is also not
civilain. They're enlisted. Yeomans, engineers, etc are all roles
people fill in Navies, but they are not civilians.

Chakwas is an
officer. All doctors in militaries are (along with Chaplians). Ashley's
rise to Lt Cmdr is especially odd because it's not JUST an increase in
rank, but a crossover from enlisted to officer. That's an important
distinction.

I'm pretty sure he said "excluding Ken, Gabby, Chakwas and Chambers."  In other words, everyone was a civilian EXCEPT for those four.

As for the crew of the Normandy, it really depends which game we're talking about.  In ME1 (and presumably ME3) the crew is military, whereas the crew consisted of Cerberus operatives in ME2.  They weren't military, so they were probably civilians.  Maybe some were ex-military, like Jacob, but they weren't active members in the Alliance Navy.

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 25 février 2012 - 06:07 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Apparently without attending any kind of OCS. She's just magically jumps four grades.

Chakwas is no longer a part of the Alliance. Even when you run into her in ME3.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 25 février 2012 - 06:08 .

[izmirtheastarach]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

I think the Wiki initially referred to Ashley's rank as Lieutenant in ME3 (and subsequently edited after the demo was released).  I was surprised to hear Anderson call her "Lieutenant Commander" several times.

Something I find interesting is that although the Wiki states that Shepard's rank is Lieutenant Commander (and I recall BioWare saying something to that effect, but that was a while ago), no one ever calls him that.  They always say "Commander."

I know that dropping the "Lieutenant" part is normal when quickly saying someone's rank, but I don't remember anyone ever calling Shepard by his full rank.  The reason I bring that up is because Anderson very clearly calls Ashley "Lieutenant Commander" and never once shorterns it to simply "Commander." 

So that raises some questions:
1. Did Shepard get a promotion to Staff Commander at some point?
2. Is the Wiki wrong?
3. Was there some sort of miscommunication within BioWare?

If you want, you can throw even more confusion in there. Anderson refers to Alenko in ME2 as "Staff Commander Alenko".

It's my assumption that either Shep gets promoted in some legit way in ME3, likely by Hacket. If not, then the probably will just never mention it, and everyong will just continue referring to him as Commander Shepard, since that's how the game brands him anyways.

The wiki isn't wrong, as they update it whemver there is a new official word. Shep's rank has always been LT Commander. Both in the promo materials and in the in-game codex.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 25 février 2012 - 06:09 .

[S.ilver]

It's pretty obvious that Ash got her promotion because there's no way that she can be outranked by blue-collared newcomer Lieutenant Vega...

How are they explaining it without a retcon? No idea.

[izmirtheastarach]

S.ilver wrote...
How are they explaining it without a retcon? No idea.

They aren't.

[JunMadine]

Perhaps in honor of Shepard all human spectre agents who are not at least Lt. Commander or higher are promoted so as to ease potential friction with the alliance military. Plus I think that in ME3 Shepard is a full commander. Based on how Anderson addresses Ashley as Lt. Commander and Shepard as Commander.

[izmirtheastarach]

JunMadine wrote...

Perhaps in honor of Shepard all human spectre agents who are not at least Lt. Commander or higher are promoted so as to ease potential friction with the alliance military. Plus I think that in ME3 Shepard is a full commander. Based on how Anderson addresses Ashley as Lt. Commander and Shepard as Commander.

Once humanity is a full council race, Spectres no longer need to have any particular rank in the Alliance military. They have authority over pretty much anyone. In ME1 a Spectre can refuse orders even from Admirals, and both Saren and Vasir give orders to pretty much anyone they meet, no matter what there position.

It's just a retcon. I don't know that there is any reason beyond the fact that they just decided she was going to be a Lt. Commander in ME3.

As for Shepard, until something in-game explicitly tells me that Shep is anything beyond a Lt. Commander, I don't believe it. A Lt. Commander is often referred to as Commander. The next highest rank, Staff Commander, is only ever referred to in the series by it's full title.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 16 juillet 2015 - 03:32 .